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State of the O-line

Insideop

All Pro
I'm beginning to think the Texans may not get a QB in the 1st rd but it all hinges on whether or not one of the QB's they like is still there at #25. If their guys are gone then I think the Texans go O-line, and I wouldn't be surprised if they pick Lamp. Here again, I don't really know which O-linemen they like in the 1st rd but I think one or two of the top 4 (Robinson, Bolles, Ramczek, Lamp) should be there. If they do go O-line in the 1st, the question then becomes who and when will they pick a QB! I'll be very curious to see who they pick if Watson, Kizer, Robinson, and Ramczek are there at #25. Maybe the bigger question would be who do they pick if Trubisky, Mahomes, Bolles, and Lamp are still there! Should be very interesting!
 

Sigma

Veteran
Hankins just signed with the Colts but **** it we got a pick .
hey, stop being so mean to draft picks.

you know how many players we have on our roster? we need more picks otherwise how can you expect we will be able to trade away all those players?

:kitten:
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
I'm beginning to think the Texans may not get a QB in the 1st rd but it all hinges on whether or not one of the QB's they like is still there at #25. If their guys are gone then I think the Texans go O-line, and I wouldn't be surprised if they pick Lamp. Here again, I don't really know which O-linemen they like in the 1st rd but I think one or two of the top 4 (Robinson, Bolles, Ramczek, Lamp) should be there. If they do go O-line in the 1st, the question then becomes who and when will they pick a QB! I'll be very curious to see who they pick if Watson, Kizer, Robinson, and Ramczek are there at #25. Maybe the bigger question would be who do they pick if Trubisky, Mahomes, Bolles, and Lamp are still there! Should be very interesting!
Good post.

If we draft Mahomes, I think this will be on Rick Smith.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see Trubisky falling to 1-25. Nor Watson. If either of these fell to us, I would have to seriously rethink my position I've consistently held this off season.

Kizer has that awkward throwing motion with a long delivery. Having gone through that with Oz, I don't see us drafting this prospect.

Lamp is the top rated OG and should be off the board. But if he did fall, he carries the highest grade of all OLmen. We'd almost have to take him.

Ramczyk, with his hip injury, is a real question mark. Robinson? I like.

But if the draft fell like this, I'd have to seriously consider making a play with the 49ers and trading back into the top of the second round, for their third. SF will not be taking a QB with their first pick and might be desperate to trade back up into the first if their guy is their at 1-25.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
It's pretty much a consensus that we need to draft a RT. Behind him we have Clark and Lamm.

But who do we have behind XSF and Allen at OG. We have Mancz/Martin maybe. But who are Chad Slade and Josh Walker. Are they serviceable? Or do we need to draft an OG?
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
It's pretty much a consensus that we. We'd to draft a RT. Behind him we have Clark and Lamm.

But who do we have behind XSF and Allen at OG. We have Mancz/Martin maybe. But who are Chad Slade and Josh Walker. Are they serviceable? Or do we need to draft an OG?
Maybe you get a guy like Dawkins or Moton and draft an OL in the 4th , either a G or OT .
 

jradMIT

Veteran
Bolles is my favorite. He needs to put on more weight and get stronger and is 25, but he plays mean, loves to hit guys and drive them to the ground even away from the action and he is the best athlete at tackle.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Bolles is my favorite. He needs to put on more weight and get stronger and is 25, but he plays mean, loves to hit guys and drive them to the ground even away from the action and he is the best athlete at tackle.
His experience is very limited with just one year of major college competition (PAC12), and Bolles is a natural for a zone blocking scheme and not a very good fit for power scheme and he's also better suited for left tackle and what we need here in Houston is a right tackle.
It's going to be interesting to see where he's ultimately drafted because I think he could fall out of the first round.
 

Tearstain

Waterboy
His experience is very limited with just one year of major college competition (PAC12), and Bolles is a natural for a zone blocking scheme and not a very good fit for power scheme and he's also better suited for left tackle and what we need here in Houston is a right tackle.
It's going to be interesting to see where he's ultimately drafted because I think he could fall out of the first round.
We also need to be looking at a replacement in waiting for DB at LT. he doesn't have many years left(Perhaps 2 at most) and we need a goo replacement to hold this critical position on the line.
 

jradMIT

Veteran
His experience is very limited with just one year of major college competition (PAC12), and Bolles is a natural for a zone blocking scheme and not a very good fit for power scheme and he's also better suited for left tackle and what we need here in Houston is a right tackle.
It's going to be interesting to see where he's ultimately drafted because I think he could fall out of the first round.
We also need a left tackle for the future, Bolles could be that.
 

zshawn10

All Pro
OL wonderlic scores from this draft:

1. Chase Roullier (Wyoming) - 31/50

2. Nico Siragusa (San Diego State) - 31/50

3. Ethan Pocic (LSU) - 29/50

4. Taylor Moton (Western Michigan) - 29/50

5. Dan Feeney (Indiana) - 29/50

6. Julie'n Davenport (Bucknell) - 28/50

7. Cameron Todd (Southern Miss) - 28/50

8. Forrest Lamp (Western Kentucky) - 25/50

9. Dorian Johnson (Pitt) - 24/50

10. Roderick Johnson (Florida State) - 23/50

11. Pat Elflein (Ohio State) - 21/50

12. Ryan Ramczyk (Wisconsin) - 20/50

13. Cam Robinson (Alabama) - 16/50

14. Dion Dawkins (Temple) - 12/50

15. Garett Bolles (Utah) - 9/50
 

LikeMike

Veteran
So, what is the state of our o-line? I didn't really follow the team this past off season. What does our depth chart look like? Who are we worried about injury wise?
 

honored82

Waterboy
Left Offensive Tackle Duane Brown Kendall Lamm
Left Offensive Guard Xavier Su'a-Filo David Quessenberry
Center Nick Martin Greg Mancz
Right Offensive Guard Jeff Allen Josh Walker
Right Offensive Tackle Chris Clark Davenport, Julie'n


They only suit up 8 O-Line every week, I believe. Tony Bergstrom was released to make room for Nick martin/David Quess.

Only Duane Brown is a 1st round pick
XSF/Nick martin/Jeff Allen are 2nd round picks
DQ is 6th round pick while Kendall Lamm, Greg Mancz, Josh walker, Chris clark are all undrafted <==== This is why i believe we are struggling, as OL is not being addressed with Quality.
Add 7th rounder Center Kyle Fuller to the list
 
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House of Pain

Knee-jerkless
Left Offensive Tackle Duane Brown Kendall Lamm
Left Offensive Guard Xavier Su'a-Filo David Quessenberry
Center Nick Martin Greg Mancz
Right Offensive Guard Jeff Allen Josh Walker
Right Offensive Tackle Chris Clark Davenport, Julie'n


They only suit up 8 O-Line every week, I believe. Tony Bergstrom was released to make room for Nick martin/David Quess.

Only Duane Brown is a 1st round pick
XSF/Nick martin/Jeff Allen are 2nd round picks
DQ is 6th round pick while Kendall Lamm, Greg Mancz, Josh walker, Chris clark are all undrafted <==== This is why i believe we are struggling, as OL is not being addressed with Quality.
Add 7th rounder Center Kyle Fuller to the list
O-Line is the one position that I believe that doesn't necessarily need high picks at all positions in order to have a good line. I do believe LT is the exception to that rule. If you look at last year's Super Bowl champions they have a 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and undrafted, respectively, on the line. That's not exactly what I would call "quality". Our line last year: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 7th, and undrafted. By your theory, we should have a much better line. And we know that's not true.
 

jradMIT

Veteran
A 1st and three 2nd rounders on the line is more than enough resources for a good line, the problem was injuries. Martin out and Allen hobbled, If you look around there are plenty of good interior OL that are were drafted in rounds 2-4, the Oline just needs to stay healthy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
The state of the Oline is currently hopeful. We've got some pieces getting healthy and some new faces to add to the mix. Looking forward to seeing how this line looks this season!
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Looks mediocre at best.

Only Duane Brown is above average and he's getting up there in age. I hope Allen was injured last year because he wasnt very good.

Nick Martin, DQ and the rookies...who knows.

XSF probably is what he is at this point.

The depth looks bad.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Looks mediocre at best.

Only Duane Brown is above average and he's getting up there in age. I hope Allen was injured last year because he wasnt very good.

Nick Martin, DQ and the rookies...who knows.

XSF probably is what he is at this point.

The depth looks bad.
Truth hurts
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
?3. Dion Dawkins, G, Buffalo Bills (from Falcons)

Analysis: "There's a right tackle position open in Buffalo. He was a converted defensive tackle, so his best football is ahead of him on the offensive side of the ball. Powerful point-of-attack player. He can kick inside or play right tackle."

64. Taylor Moton, G, Carolina Panthers (from Patriots)

Analysis: "He's a right tackle or a guard. I loved his game against Illinois. He played against Dawuane Smoot and handled him."
*****
That analysis post-Draft is Mike Mayoc and those guys were drafted in the second round a few spots after we took LB Z.Cunningham and either of those guys could be starting at RT for us this September.
OK so even if Smith & O'Brien drafted BPA here they still seem unconcerned about issues @ RT which would seem to be more pressing than our issues @ LB ?
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What's the deal with Newton? Career over? Back sometime next season?
At one of the pressers O'b said Newton's been rehabing for a couple of months now. He has no idea when he'll be ready to play or participate in the offseason program, but hopes he'll be available for the start of the season.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Savage will be QB1, Weeden will be QB2 and Watson will be the QB3 apprentice. If the tandem of Savage and Weeden have a solid season while leading the Texans to a 10+ win season...then this becomes a good problem to have for a change. Savage would be re-signed and Weeden would be on the bubble based on Watson's progression. 2018 would see Savage and Watson competing for QB1...not O'Brien just handing the starting job to Watson.

If Savage has a strong season, I would expect the FO to give him at minimum a 3 year deal with 2 years guaranteed. If Watson wants to start, he's going to have to learn this playbook and beat Savage for the starting job.

By the way, I like Watson b/c he's a winner, a very good leader and has great overall character. IMO, RS gave up a little too much for Watson based solely on the trade, but I also understand that as usual, things got a little stupid on draft day in regards to the QB's overall and it forced him into making a move. So, Watson's a Texan now and all I want from him is success....the same success I want to see from every player who puts on a Texans jersey. He will get the benefit of Savage and Weeden leading the way which will slow down the learning curve pace and allow him to correct his game and learn the offense without sweating the wins and losses in Year 1.

I also expect Savage to come in and play for his NFL career and first real contract after completing the rookie contract. Overall, it's a great situation for all 3 QB's since the level of competition should push all 3 to be better.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
By the way, I like Watson b/c he's a winner, a very good leader and has great overall character. IMO, RS gave up a little too much for Watson based solely on the trade, but I also understand that as usual, things got a little stupid on draft day in regards to the QB's overall and it forced him into making a move.
based on the trade, to move from 25 to 12 I think he got a steal. There should have been another draft pick in there, 2017 4th or 2018 3rd.

I can understand if you think it was too much for Watson, but the important thing is that the Texans didn't. I mean important in that the Texans had that kind of conviction to go get the player (QB) they wanted.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Savage will be QB1, Weeden will be QB2 and Watson will be the QB3 apprentice. If the tandem of Savage and Weeden have a solid season while leading the Texans to a 10+ win season...then this becomes a good problem to have for a change. Savage would be re-signed and Weeden would be on the bubble based on Watson's progression. 2018 would see Savage and Watson competing for QB1...not O'Brien just handing the starting job to Watson.

If Savage has a strong season, I would expect the FO to give him at minimum a 3 year deal with 2 years guaranteed. If Watson wants to start, he's going to have to learn this playbook and beat Savage for the starting job.

By the way, I like Watson b/c he's a winner, a very good leader and has great overall character. IMO, RS gave up a little too much for Watson based solely on the trade, but I also understand that as usual, things got a little stupid on draft day in regards to the QB's overall and it forced him into making a move. So, Watson's a Texan now and all I want from him is success....the same success I want to see from every player who puts on a Texans jersey. He will get the benefit of Savage and Weeden leading the way which will slow down the learning curve pace and allow him to correct his game and learn the offense without sweating the wins and losses in Year 1.

I also expect Savage to come in and play for his NFL career and first real contract after completing the rookie contract. Overall, it's a great situation for all 3 QB's since the level of competition should push all 3 to be better.
Great analysis. I agree, although many here are expecting Watson to win out. I don't see this happening.
 
Savage will be QB1, Weeden will be QB2 and Watson will be the QB3 apprentice. If the tandem of Savage and Weeden have a solid season while leading the Texans to a 10+ win season...then this becomes a good problem to have for a change. Savage would be re-signed and Weeden would be on the bubble based on Watson's progression. 2018 would see Savage and Watson competing for QB1...not O'Brien just handing the starting job to Watson.

If Savage has a strong season, I would expect the FO to give him at minimum a 3 year deal with 2 years guaranteed. If Watson wants to start, he's going to have to learn this playbook and beat Savage for the starting job.

By the way, I like Watson b/c he's a winner, a very good leader and has great overall character. IMO, RS gave up a little too much for Watson based solely on the trade, but I also understand that as usual, things got a little stupid on draft day in regards to the QB's overall and it forced him into making a move. So, Watson's a Texan now and all I want from him is success....the same success I want to see from every player who puts on a Texans jersey. He will get the benefit of Savage and Weeden leading the way which will slow down the learning curve pace and allow him to correct his game and learn the offense without sweating the wins and losses in Year 1.

I also expect Savage to come in and play for his NFL career and first real contract after completing the rookie contract. Overall, it's a great situation for all 3 QB's since the level of competition should push all 3 to be better.
I think Watson will be Qb2 based on his play during training camp and preseason. If Savage struggles the slightest Watson will be taking the reigns from Savage. If Savage plays well than like you I agree that is a good problem to have.
 

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
I think Watson will be Qb2 based on his play during training camp and preseason. If Savage struggles the slightest Watson will be taking the reigns from Savage. If Savage plays well than like you I agree that is a good problem to have.
I disagree. You're not taking into account O'Brien's aversion to playing a any rookie QB, regardless of TC/preseason play. Granted, injuries could reshape the situation, but if all 3 remain standing going into game one, it'll be Savage 1, Weeden 2, Watson 3.

And keep a close eye out for any type of 'mysterious' injury that might occur to Watson during TC/preseason. We all know what O'Brien likes to do in those situations. :)
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Watson will play when the McNair's make BOB play him. Hopefully the McNair's have learned how to not mess up a young QB. But the McNair's usually put the guys who make $$$$ on the field regardless of whether they should be or not. Either thru lack of performance or injury.

They definitely didn't learn the 1st time about protecting your young QB should be job #1.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
I disagree. You're not taking into account O'Brien's aversion to playing a any rookie QB, regardless of TC/preseason play. Granted, injuries could reshape the situation, but if all 3 remain standing going into game one, it'll be Savage 1, Weeden 2, Watson 3.

And keep a close eye out for any type of 'mysterious' injury that might occur to Watson during TC/preseason. We all know what O'Brien likes to do in those situations. :)
Lol, yeah and the Texans won't draft a QB high either.

They didn't spend a 1st on a 3rd string QB. This Savage Weedon bromance needs to end.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I disagree. You're not taking into account O'Brien's aversion to playing a any rookie QB, regardless of TC/preseason play. Granted, injuries could reshape the situation, but if all 3 remain standing going into game one, it'll be Savage 1, Weeden 2, Watson 3.

And keep a close eye out for any type of 'mysterious' injury that might occur to Watson during TC/preseason. We all know what O'Brien likes to do in those situations. :)
Also the whole history with David Carr. As much people want to say McNair is a meddling owner (right or wrong) his history with Carr will probably allow Watson to come along slower than most expect.

McNair wants to win too. And he knows Carr wasn't helped by rushing him to start day one against a bad line.

Does watson start after the bye? Maybe. But that's only if Savage hasn't proven anything. If he has built up trade value I think they keep him in and try to salvage a pick.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Let's get the thread back on topic. Does anyone have any real input on my suggestion that Mancz could move to RT.

I'm not suggesting that he would be more than adequate. But the bar is set rather low with Clark and Lamm.

But he did play the position some at Toledo. And Mancz is the kind of player who plays above his talent level. Mancz has college level experience at every line position except LT and has always performed well when called on.

So, if we don't upgrade the position in the coming weeks, could Mancz provide better play until we do.
 

jradMIT

Veteran
Let's get the thread back on topic. Does anyone have any real input on my suggestion that Mancz could move to RT.

I'm not suggesting that he would be more than adequate. But the bar is set rather low with Clark and Lamm.

But he did play the position some at Toledo. And Mancz is the kind of player who plays above his talent level. Mancz has college level experience at every line position except LT and has always performed well when called on.

So, if we don't upgrade the position in the coming weeks, could Mancz provide better play until we do.

Not sure if he would be better there than XSF. Question would be if Mancz has the power to handle RT? At this point with Martin coming back, he can battle for multiple starting spots. But Mancz is a guy who seems to find a way to get it done. Maybe they have considered this all along?
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Let's get the thread back on topic. Does anyone have any real input on my suggestion that Mancz could move to RT.

I'm not suggesting that he would be more than adequate. But the bar is set rather low with Clark and Lamm.

But he did play the position some at Toledo. And Mancz is the kind of player who plays above his talent level. Mancz has college level experience at every line position except LT and has always performed well when called on.

So, if we don't upgrade the position in the coming weeks, could Mancz provide better play until we do.
We don't lose anything throwing him out there in preseason to see how he responds to the move. Jeff Allen also has starting experience at RT while at KC.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I want to see Davenport getting significant snaps with healthy rotation like D Brown did IIRC. As teams adjust their roster a solid vet could be cut to sign with in Houston beat out Lamm and Clark neither in whom I trust.
 

Insideop

All Pro
Let's get the thread back on topic. Does anyone have any real input on my suggestion that Mancz could move to RT.

I'm not suggesting that he would be more than adequate. But the bar is set rather low with Clark and Lamm.

But he did play the position some at Toledo. And Mancz is the kind of player who plays above his talent level. Mancz has college level experience at every line position except LT and has always performed well when called on.

So, if we don't upgrade the position in the coming weeks, could Mancz provide better play until we do.
So, are you thinking Davenport is too much of a project and won't be ready to start a RT? Personally, I don't think he's ready, but at this point I think he may end up being the best option. As for Manzc, and I may be wrong on this, but I don't think he has enough athleticism or size to handle that position in the NFL. Their best option may be to start with Clark or Lamm and then gradually move Davenport in to the position. If Davenport is going to be their long term answer at RT, then I think they need to play him there through all of OTA's, TC, and Preseason to get him as prepared as possible.

I also heard something about them possibly trying Fuller (the 7th rounder) at RT since he is taller (6'5") and may be better suited as a Tackle. Don't know where I heard this and may be just a rumor.
 
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Number19

Hall of Fame
O'Brian likes old school, smash mouth football - running the ball up the middle. Last year we ran the ball more than any other team except maybe Seattle.

With the addition of Fuller, and with Martin coming back, we have seriously upgraded the middle of our line - Su'a Filo, Martin, Mancz, Allen and now Fuller.

And with the addition of Foreman, who excels at running between the tackles, it looks like we will continue to pound the ball up the middle, only more efficently.

Our red zone run attack should be improved.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
So, are you thinking Davenport is too much of a project and won't be ready to start a RT? Personally, I don't think he's ready, but at this point I think he may end up being the best option. As for Manzc, and I may be wrong on this, but I don't think he has enough athleticism or size to handle that position in the NFL. Their best option may be to start with Clark or Lamm and then gradually move Davenport in to the position. If Davenport is going to be their long term answer at RT, then I think they need to play him there through all of OTA's, TC, and Preseason to get him as prepared as possible.

I also heard something about them possibly trying Fuller (the 7th rounder) at RT since he is taller (6'5") and may be better suited as a Tackle. Don't know where I heard this and may be just a rumor.
Weight 310, arm 34 and hand 10, Mancz matches or exceeds Clark and Lamm. Height is an inch, or two, shorter. Atheticism is what I'm unsure of. But he has played the position in college.

I'd like to see Davenport come on strong. He has the strong family background, a chip on his shoulder and the football intelligence to absorb his training on a fast track.

What I would like to see in Mancz, or another veteran, is a short term improvement over last year; and who would start game one but with Davenport taking snaps each game, working his way into the starting position.

Fuller has been mentioned, or projected, to OG. I haven't seen him projected to OT.
 

Insideop

All Pro
Once again, since BOB has been here anyway, the O-line will be in turmoil to start the season and will probably take several weeks to settle down. Last year I don't think they ever really got settled at the RT spot once Newton went down. Clark played probably as well as he could but not good enough to be a starter in the NFL. I was expecting more from Allen at RG and think he was playing hurt most of the year. Hope he will be better this season but he may have lost his job to Martin or Mancz. The Center will be filled by the either one of the fore mentioned Martin or Mancz with possibly Fuller as the backup. XSF is still probably going to be the LG though how good he is seems to be the subject of some discussion on this MB. I wonder if it's the same in those offices at Reliant? :thinking: The LT spot will be manned by the aging, but still good, DB. Hope he can lead this line for another few years. When he came back last year the O-line really started stabilizing and improving. They're going to need him to do it again.

So, to start the season I think the O-line could look like this:
1) LT - D. Brown
2) LG - XSF
3) OC - Mancz
4) RG - Allen
5) RT - Clark
6) ST - Lamm/Davenport
7) SG - Martin/Fuller

By the end of the season I think it could look more like this:
1) LT - D. Brown
2) LG - XSF
3) OC - Mancz
4) RG - Martin
5) RT - Davenport
6) ST - Clark/Lamm
7) SG - Allen/Fuller

This will allow them to carry 9 O-linemen (not counting LS) on the roster that can be mixed and matched to whatever the situation calls for should injuries arise. It's not the greatest O-line when it comes to depth and a lot hinges on Davenport developing quickly in to at least a serviceable RT. Just hope they don't get ravaged with injuries again!
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
Once again, since BOB has been here anyway, the O-line will be in turmoil to start the season and will probably take several weeks to settle down. Last year I don't think they ever really got settled at the RT spot once Newton went down. Clark played probably as well as he could but not good enough to be a starter in the NFL. I was expecting more from Allen at RG and think he was playing hurt most of the year. Hope he will be better this season but he may have lost his job to Martin or Mancz. The Center will be filled by the either one of the fore mentioned Martin or Mancz with possibly Fuller as the backup. XSF is still probably going to be the LG though how good he is seems to be the subject of some discussion on this MB. I wonder if it's the same in those offices at Reliant? :thinking: The LT spot will be manned by the aging, but still good, DB. Hope he can lead this line for another few years. When he came back last year the O-line really started stabilizing and improving. They're going to need him to do it again.

So, to start the season I think the O-line could look like this:
1) LT - D. Brown
2) LG - XSF
3) OC - Mancz
4) RG - Allen
5) RT - Clark
6) ST - Lamm/Davenport
7) SG - Martin/Fuller

By the end of the season I think it could look more like this:
1) LT - D. Brown
2) LG - XSF
3) OC - Mancz
4) RG - Martin
5) RT - Davenport
6) ST - Clark/Lamm
7) SG - Allen/Fuller

This will allow them to carry 9 O-linemen (not counting LS) on the roster that can be mixed and matched to whatever the situation calls for should injuries arise. It's not the greatest O-line when it comes to depth and a lot hinges on Davenport developing quickly in to at least a serviceable RT. Just hope they don't get ravaged with injuries again!
If Martin , as a 2nd round pick , can't get a starting spot on this team then he's a bust .
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
McNair wants to win too. And he knows Carr wasn't helped by rushing him to start day one against a bad line.
There's a difference between rushing a rookie to start & preparing a rookie to start. I'm expecting the QB guru to do the latter.
 


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