ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
If OB wants more control over personnel then he should put some skins on the wall. I like the dude as an coach but he he is far from elite
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[Sources] OB & Smith relationship has worsened
- Thread starter xtruroyaltyx
- Start date
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I thought everyone was being serious. Didn't recognize that this is simply all in the fun.
I'll just laugh all this crap off in the future, just take it for what it is, inane ramblings on the internet.
It is in fun and based on the context it should be a given we don't have all the facts and there is some measure of speculation. I get that. I think most people do. I know not everyone does and that person demeaning another with his own speculation is stupid. We'll see how it plays out and in the meantime im more then ready to talk about x's and o's.
I have never said that the McNair's need to fly anywhere. I will say when I think a guy in the FO sucks at his job and has a track record of backstabbing. You may not call it dysfunction but then it must be a bad FO setup then. Or atleast will you admit the boardroom style of mgmt. with no one taking responsibility has never and probably never will work. Nah could never admit this 15 yrs and counting.
You must be confusing my thoughts with Texians. Or maybe you just think you'right and anybody that disagrees with you is wrong. Either way, the Texans org as it presently is isn't properly set up to win a SB. You can disagree all you want, but we will be having this conversation again next yr just like we did this yr and the yr before that. etc....
Out of curiosity, what setup do you think works to win a SB? A GM and coach with separate duties or a coach with total control over personnel?
Very few coaches have total control & very few GMs fill a roster without working with the HC to find players that fit.
Coaches with total control earned total control.
I think, like ATXtexanfan said, if O'b wants more control, prove he can do his own job first. & sorry, going 9-7 three years running with a 9-7 roster... even an 8-8 roster ain't good enough.
Win in Foxboro & I'd have no problem making some changes. I don't know that I'd give him everything but he'll have definitely earned something.
I can imagine McNair, "Yo Kraft...."
I'm more of a Ravens/Packers/or Pats type of setup. 1 person is in charge of all personnel acquisitions. None of the boardroom approach that's currently used by the Texans org.
This is easy-peasy.
If all GMs were mistake free how the hell did Russell Wilson last until the 4th round? Or Zak Prescott? How did Tom Brady last until the 6th round? Or Tony Romo go completely undrafted?
There's four examples of multiple screw-ups in four different drafts right there. Just off the top of my head.
No front office is Eff-up free.
So you shouldn't have a problem with Rick picking the QB? Other than its Rick, that is.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Bingo. If you believe the rumor Rick forced Oz on OB then he is playing exactly that traditional GM role. Can't have it both ways.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Meh. I've seen enough crap throwing on sites like PFT to realize that most of the "NFL reporting" is just to get clicks.
I'll be the first to admit I only latched onto this report initially because of my disdain for Rick Smith. Seemed like a good opportunity to vent on him.
Vinnie
with an I E
Exactly, this is what I like to believe. I want to think Rick has been responsible for every draft pick and every free agent signing, good or bad. The bad far out weighs the good, bye Rick.
But we all know that's not right. No GM, no matter how much "control" he has over personnel, just signs F/As or makes draft picks and "throws them over the fence" to the coaching staff without getting their input first.
It's like you're saying the guy in charge of getting the groceries for a restaurant just buys stuff without consulting the chef to see what he needs.
The very concept makes no sense.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
And Rick points to 2 losing seasons on his watch, winning record as a GM, 4 division championships and 7 playoff games in 6 years, being the only GM with all of his 1st round picks since 2008 still on the team and universally credited among his peers as being one of the best late round/UDFA value finders in the league.
Not defending Rick, but if we put that resume up around here and didn't say it belonged to Rick Smith, most of us would consider that at worst average, if not competent. But because it is Rick, it sucks and he must be run out on a rail.
Vinnie
with an I E
Chef: "Hey grocery guy, we need 100 lbs of prime rib for this weekend"
Grocery guy: "Here you go, 100 lbs of rib roast"
Chef: "uh, thanks."
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Seems the Texans "concept" or lack of is the root of the whole discussion going on here.
Vinnie
with an I E
There's some cherry picking stats for you. Perennial championship quality teams are built in the middle rounds where Rick has been ABYSMAL and the AFC South has been a dumpster fire ever since Peyton Manning had neck surgery.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Of course it was cherry picking. That was the point. We always look to Rick's worst decisions, and always point to other GM's best decisions. Rick is polarizing around here. Everything about him is cherry picking.
Vinnie
with an I E
No it's not, that was my point. If you look at the entire body of work as a GM, it's not good. That's not cherry or turd picking. For every JJ Watt there's been three or four Sam Montgomery's.
I don't know about that. He's still the GM & the buck stops there.
Even if the coach wants to bring in a player & the GM is totally against it... if he brings the guy in, he brings the guy in. So, imo, whether the player turned out to be good or bad, Rick Smith has to have some culpability. I don't think you can say, he brought in that bust Montgomery he needs to be fired, without saying, he brought in Jj Watt, he needs more control.
& every time we say, I wanted Kyle Wilson instead of Kareem Jackson, or I wanted Corderale Patterson instead of DeAndre Hopkins... we need to take that into consideration as well.
Me... He's brought in a lot of players that I've absolutely fell in love with. There have been a few, I just didn't get. If he were fired next week, I wouldn't shed a tear. If he's extended in the next decade... it wouldn't phase me.
I don't think he's the bottle neck. Not with the way he goes about getting coaches the players they want.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
So what is the right ratio of 3xDPOY picks to 3rd round busts for a successful GM? Because every GM picks a Sam Montgomery.
I'm with you.
Nobody bats 1.000 on draft picks or F/A signings.
Smith has done enough to make this team a competitor.
Is it "elite" yet? Hell no. But I'd like to think that he and O'Brien (because I think they have to work as a team) are headed in that direction.
Vinnie
with an I E
Sure every GM picks a Sam Montgomery. Not every GM gives you an Amobi Okoye, Steve Slaton and Devier Posey.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I agree to an extent. Smith's ability to scout and identify talent is not terrible. It's about average in my view. He has some great picks in the first and some good value selections later on, with alot of busts in between. I think that's about average, if you compare it to other GMs.
Being a GM is not all about finding individual talent. It's about building a team that as a whole is competitive with anybody you play. This is where Rick Smith has failed. He has not built a team that is competitive with the better teams, except maybe in 2011. @sandman often likes to bring up the fact that we have 4 division championships, and he's right in that Smith deserves some credit for that. However, outside of 2011 we have not been competitive with the better teams in the league. Division championships don't mean anything when the goal is to win in the playoffs against the better teams. You don't get to keep your job because you're beating up on the sisters of the poor teams, but getting destroyed by the better teams. We got killed by the Patriots in 2012. It was 13-38 with 13 minutes left in that game. We lost 0-30 last year to the Chiefs.
Smith often doesn't address large needs and one thing @Texian is right about is that he doesn't plan well for the future. He botched the OL situation horribly by not resigning Brooks, bringing in Allen, and not addressing the issues at tackle. Now, we are in a position in which we are going to have to draft multiple OL high. Atleast, if we expect to have good play there, we'll need to plan on investing hugely and all at once. He has made some really poor re-signing decisions as well, both re-signing guys that he shouldn't and not re-signing guys that he should. It's not hindsight is 20/20 thing either. Most people disagreed with the Newton re-signing and it was proven to be the correct opinion. Alot of people badly wanted to re-sign Quin, myself included, because he was a versatile safety that we absolutely needed. We let him go. The thing is, Smith drafted Quin. So, his evaluation was good, but he botched the situation later by not re-signing him or replacing him with young depth. This happens far too frequently.
Then there's the QB situation, which is a make or break position. You have to have good QB play. Before this year, he had only made one real attempt at garnering good QB play and that was the move with Schaub. I don't blame him for the Brock move. I liked that he made an effort to get better QB play, but considering how infrequently he has tried to improve that position, he really couldn't afford to screw it up.
People too often focus on individual picks, good and bad. Being the GM is about building a TEAM, not collecting individual guys that show out for 2-5 years on bad/average teams.
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If it was just PFT I would agree with you, But LZ reported on this and he's always been known to be reliable. How many scoops have you known Glazer to get wrong? These are the cream of the crop. We're not talking about Pancakes/La Confora here.
Ricky McNair did pick Os. IMHO
Put this together with Ricky's decade long track record of mediocrity at best and you're correct I wouldn't want Ricky anywhere near picking my face of the franchise QB.
That's the point, he wasn't even forward thinking enough to draft a QB of the future when Schaub was his QB. You know like the Packers/Pats etc... do.
banned1976
sleeper mode
First off I'm not taking sides. I feel like if you have an offensive minded HC you don't force a QB on him. It's like your parents arranging your marriage. If you don't like the girl it's not going to work. Your going to resent your parents and you'll sabotage the marriage,
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Slaton pulled off a 1,600 all purpose yards and 10 TD season as a rookie. His second year he tried to bulk up and lost his quickness, and combined with a case of the drops that got in his head and he was never the same. Completely different from an Okoye or Posey that never had any success as a Texan. That's like blaming Rick for drafting Q.
And he's not very good at his role and should've been fired after 2010. But we know the godfather isn't going to be fired, which leads to more mediocrity. Which you dont seem to have a problem with.
Delete
I hope you're right.
A decade of results suggests we are having a case of wishful thinking.
And getting blown out anytime they play a top tier team in the playoffs.
See: Chiefs/Pats
Vinnie
with an I E
Fair enough, I'll see your Steve Slaton and raise you a Louis Nix.
Rick is the bottle neck.
It's why BOB wants out.
Rick isn't getting BOB the players he wants.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
That's fair. Plenty to choose from.
But this is why I want them both out.
A GM with poor long term vision is not good continuity.
A HC with an offensive background that can't even get the QB situation sorted in year 3 isn't good for continuity either.
This story just won't go away.
Houston’s wild-card win over the Raiders coupled with owner Bob McNair’s proclamation that coach Bill O’Brien was never getting fired puts to rest the possibility that O’Brien will be leaving the Texans, right?
Uh . . . no.
The talk of a potential split hasn’t ended simply because the Texans beat a team that was down to its third quarterback and because the owner declared that O’Brien isn’t getting fired. The talk hasn’t ended because it’s widely believed in league circles that O’Brien is not happy in Houston. (One league source used extremely colorful language in explaining O’Brien’s mindset.)
Officially, O’Brien denies any interest in leaving.
Houston’s wild-card win over the Raiders coupled with owner Bob McNair’s proclamation that coach Bill O’Brien was never getting fired puts to rest the possibility that O’Brien will be leaving the Texans, right?
Uh . . . no.
The talk of a potential split hasn’t ended simply because the Texans beat a team that was down to its third quarterback and because the owner declared that O’Brien isn’t getting fired. The talk hasn’t ended because it’s widely believed in league circles that O’Brien is not happy in Houston. (One league source used extremely colorful language in explaining O’Brien’s mindset.)
Officially, O’Brien denies any interest in leaving.
But everybody is just making stuff up.
The only way BOB stays is if he gets control of personnel. He put on some pressure after last season. Anything to get Ricky McNair away from the personnel side of the org. A win in Foxboro and BOB gets what he wants. A loss and he moves on because McNair isn't going to fire/promote Little Ricky.
A win Sunday is best cse scenario if you want change in the Texans hierarchy
It just goes to show that scouting is far from an exact science. Nobody seems able to identify, much less measure, those intangible qualities that the good-to-great QBs possess. That's why someone with the good measurables gets picked high like Ryan Leaf, yet the QBs you mentioned were overlooked multiple times, even by the teams that eventually drafted them.
With the current CBA, I would advocate a strategy of constant QB drafting until you find a good one. And keep beefing up that o-line to protect them while they develop and giving them a consistent run game (which always makes QBs look better).
I don't blame Rick Smith for not regularly drafting QBs, but rather this organization for being scared of regularly drafting QBs. I have no idea where that fearful mentality comes from, though. It's just weak.
Wolfiegrrl
Fan of NFC Seahawks & AFC Texans
I have to say, after watching BO'b's body language in his postgame presser, I'm inclined to believe that he wants out. He's tired of not being given the power to do what he wants with his personnel. Rick Smith needs to shut up and get the hell out of the way. Our view as fanatics is that O'brien hasn't done enough. But look at it from the outside. This guy is looking like a genius making bronze out of bullshi+. Not sure what I want more... new coaches or get rid of Rick Smith.
This defense will go to **** when Crennel and Vrabel leave town. Man, that part pisses me off the most.
This defense will go to **** when Crennel and Vrabel leave town. Man, that part pisses me off the most.
JWLCASPER
Waterboy
I have been critical of B.Ob for most of the season. I have also given Brock the benefit of the doubt and a prove it mentality all year while stating B.Ob did not trust Brock and Brock did not trust B.Ob. This obviously is a spill over from Brock being a Rick Smith choice which should be obvious with Rick's connection to Denver. Now, with all that prefaced, I believe winning the division and a playoff game has cemented B.Ob with at least some of his desired control. I do not believe we the fans or the media for that matter will see the power structure change, but McNair is very much privy to media and league buzz. You do not hear Ricky Smith-Mcnair's name coming up for potential job openings, and for good reason. Vrabel being interviewed by the Rams also gives McNair another egg in the B.Ob basket as that is his guy, not Rick's. I honestly doubt we ever see Smith totally out of the loop, but B.Ob called his bluff, remained professional, and won a playoff game. Chip lead is to B.Ob right now. But he could double up and take major control with a win, or tilt this weekend against his mentor and give Rick some momentum heading into the offseason. I do not necessarily think a win is necessary for B.Ob to get a lot of what he wants, but he has to make the game competitive until the horn.
Nix, maybe the most celebrated draft pick this board had ever seen.
It was a Slaton neck injury in 2009 that ultimately did him in. A good back that was fun to watch. Would have paired great with Foster.
Have you looked at the Patriots drafts over the last 10 years? I think you'll find a lot more busts than 2 or 3 or even 4
Sigh... you should throw a couple of "I thinks" in there.
I think McNair should give O'b a little more of the power/influence he wants if he wins next week. I don't care if he wins because the whole Patriots team gets a stomach flu. We win, O'b should win.
But those are just our opinions. It has not been reported or confirmed by anyone.
& as bad as Rick had been, how bad has he been in O'bs tenure?
Other than the Garoppolo thing which we know isn't true.
I think it's more of a risk vs rewards kinda thing moreso than passing on said player. Especially back in the day when more college teams ran a pro offense & asked more of their QBs.
Sam Bradford was more likely to be a successful NFL QB than Tony Romo for various reasons. It makes sense to use a first round pick on him.
Tony Romo was a huge risk playing sandlot football at Eastern Illinois. Romo beat the heavy odds against him. Bradford wasn't able to take advantage of the opportunity he was given (even though his net worth has).
But... the game has changed, both the college game & the pro game & I don't think anyone has identified what that primo prospect looks like today.
I don't know. How many times did we say Tj Yates was a Schaub clone? I feel pretty good that 2013 would have gone a lot differently had Kubiak made the decision to go to Yates earlier.
Not that Yates was the answer, he would have been our stop gap. Keenum would have had more time to prepare & we could have bought two or three years until Kubiak fell in love with a Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, Garrett Grayson, or Connor Cook.
& what would O'b have done differently?
Chicken & Shrimps would be backing up Lamar Miller? We'd have had Bortles instead of Clowney? Nick Martin would have worn ankle braces?
I'd bet Bill O'Brien has gotten more of the individual players he wanted than Jason Garrett, Mike McCarthy, Dan Quin, Mike Tomlin, or Andy Reid.
Will Fuller has history with Bill O'Brien
Tom Savage has history with Bill O'Brien
John Simon was coached by Mike Vrabel
I feel pretty strongly that Fiedorowicz was a Bill O'Brien pick.
Bouye was coached by O'briens Mentor
I'm sure Rick's team works very closely with O'bs team come draft time. Rick is practically O'bs yes man.
Have you heard O'Brien say he wants out?
This was Glazer's tweet that started this whole s#!tstorm
Did you miss Glazer saying "I can see..."?? That means he was speculating. That's not a news report. That's him GUESSING. The rest of the lazy media retweeted like it was a scoop. It wasn't.