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[Sources] OB & Smith relationship has worsened

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
http://www.sbnation1560.com/sources-obrien-leave-houston-bad-relationship-rick-smith/

Audio in Link.

Finishing his third consecutive 9-7 season with the Texans, there have been rumors of Bill O’Brien leaving Houston. Turns out, it might not be for the reasons you’d think. The Nate and Creight discuss the rumos of O’Brien leaving because of his relationship with Rick Smith.


1560 Radio host Nate Griffin says he has sources that state OB may be out due to rocky relationship with Rick Smith.


Other key points from the audio if you don't want to listen:

- Hard Knocks crew noticed they didn't like each other much
- Rick forced Os on OB
- OB wanted to roll with Savage for the year
- Only free agent OB had input on was Lamar Miller (seems strange to me)*
- Kubiak had more control than OB does
- Smith didn't want to have another head coach with more personnel power than him again
- OB's relationship with Smith would be the reason he left


The Lamar Miller thing is strange to me. I don't understand why he'd be the only guy OB would have input on. Sounds like ass covering since Miller is the only one who has been decent.
 
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Earl34

Veteran
Yes.
http://www.sbnation1560.com/sources-obrien-leave-houston-bad-relationship-rick-smith/


The Lamar Miller thing is strange to me. I don't understand why he'd be the only guy OB would have input on. Sounds like ass covering since Miller is the only one who has been decent.
Exactly. From his days with the Patriots, OB knows how to play the media game. A leak here or there. Whispers that he wants to leave. It's a distraction to create excuses for that terrible offense.

Last year, with the same players, the TEs were not even part of the offense. This year, they are. Did Smith tell him he needs to throw more to the TEs? No. It took him an offseason to fix the problem. He didn't or couldn't adjust during the season.

Expect Rick to leak something to the media. If I was McNair, I would just fire both of them.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Pretty much what many of us have assumed. If true, our only hope is that McNair actually holds Rick Smith accountable.

LOL.

I almost fooled myself for a minute.

This was the exact list of rumors I saw on Social media today. I tried to post this very thread but I couldn't find this anywhere.

If this is all true, then this franchise is much worse than I ever expected, and Texian and Swtbound's theories about Mcnair are a little more accurate than what people including myself have wanted to agree with.

OB definitely has had his problems on offense and its been frustrating, but overall he has been a pretty solid coach to me. If he ends up leaving due to Rick Smith, then this organization is the biggest clown show in the NFL right there with the Browns. Rick Smith is such a god damn joke, I swear.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Yes.


Exactly. From his days with the Patriots, OB knows how to play the media game. A leak here or there. Whispers that he wants to leave. It's a distraction to create excuses for that terrible offense.

Last year, with the same players, the TEs were not even part of the offense. This year, they are. Did Smith tell him he needs to throw more to the TEs? No. It took him an offseason to fix the problem. He didn't or couldn't adjust during the season.

Expect Rick to leak something to the media. If I was McNair, I would just fire both of them.

I don't know what to think anymore.

I really liked the OB hire, but I soured on him at the beggining of his second season and I wanted him fired after last season.

Now I'm not sure if all of this is his fault.

I mean....ALL of it never was his fault, but I do wonder if he could be a good head coach with a few tweaks here and there. There are a lot of qualities about OB that I like.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I just read this article, and thought it might be a bit made up to get page hits. Now, though, I'm wondering wtf is going on at Kirby:

Glazer: Could Bill O’Brien be the surprise firing?

Glazer says the two sides have never really meshed in Houston. Still, O’Brien has had success despite having holes on the roster. As John McClain of the Houston Chronicle explained this week on PFT Live, blame for the decision to sign quarterback
Brock Osweiler falls to O’Brien and G.M. Rick Smith jointly.

If O’Brien goes (and it would be a mutual parting more than a firing) and Smith stays, Smith’s tenure would extend to a third head coach. Which would raise some eyebrows.


This is a whole lotta' smoke, so natural to wonder if it's a fire.

If they fire..err..."part ways" with O'Brien and keep Smith, I might be done.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
I just read this article, and thought it might be a bit made up to get page hits. Now, though, I'm wondering wtf is going on at Kirby:

Glazer: Could Bill O’Brien be the surprise firing?

Glazer says the two sides have never really meshed in Houston. Still, O’Brien has had success despite having holes on the roster. As John McClain of the Houston Chronicle explained this week on PFT Live, blame for the decision to sign quarterback
Brock Osweiler falls to O’Brien and G.M. Rick Smith jointly.

If O’Brien goes (and it would be a mutual parting more than a firing) and Smith stays, Smith’s tenure would extend to a third head coach. Which would raise some eyebrows.


This is a whole lotta' smoke, so natural to wonder if it's a fire.

If they fire..err..."part ways" with O'Brien and keep Smith, I might be done.
Yeah....starting with the rumors about their relationship from last season and now all this stuff leaking....

Something is up...
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
- Hard Knocks crew noticed they didn't like each other much
- Rick forced Os on OB
- OB wanted to roll with Savage for the year
- Only free agent OB had input on was Lamar Miller (seems strange to me)*
- Kubiak had more control than OB does
- Smith didn't want to have another head coach with more personnel power than him again
- OB's relationship with Smith would be the reason he left
All points make sense, but the frustrating one is forcing Osweiler on O'Brien.

At the end of last season, nobody doubted that Savage would be the next in line to start. Then Osweiler is thrown into the picture out of nowhere, and no one -- not fans, not media, not the FO -- could explain why Savage was snubbed. Now we get confirmation: Osweiler was never part of O'Brien's plan. O'Brien didn't want him. It's the one position that the coach should have the most decision making power over and he got none. Wow.

What would've been a worst case scenario if Tom Savage got hurt? Brandon Weeden. That's still better than Osweiler as starter.

If I were O'Brien, I would want to leave too. And if that happens, where does that leave the team? Romeo Crennel may go with him. Brilliant! And who would replace O'Brien? Who knows, the best candidates will already be picked over by eight other teams by the time our playoff run ends.

McNair, there's only one right move here: Fire your GM. At this point, it's not even a gut decision. Look at the stats and your flushed $37 million. Prove that you're a business man.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I just read this article, and thought it might be a bit made up to get page hits. Now, though, I'm wondering wtf is going on at Kirby:

Glazer: Could Bill O’Brien be the surprise firing?

Glazer says the two sides have never really meshed in Houston. Still, O’Brien has had success despite having holes on the roster. As John McClain of the Houston Chronicle explained this week on PFT Live, blame for the decision to sign quarterback
Brock Osweiler falls to O’Brien and G.M. Rick Smith jointly.

If O’Brien goes (and it would be a mutual parting more than a firing) and Smith stays, Smith’s tenure would extend to a third head coach. Which would raise some eyebrows.


This is a whole lotta' smoke, so natural to wonder if it's a fire.

If they fire..err..."part ways" with O'Brien and keep Smith, I might be done.
Me too

What made me curious is when they asked BOB if the rumors were true, his response was I've got a team to get ready for the playoffs and I'm not worrying about that. Interesting in that there wasn't a denial or a laugh at the question.
 
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Hervoyel

BUENO!
http://www.sbnation1560.com/sources-obrien-leave-houston-bad-relationship-rick-smith/

Audio in Link.





1560 Radio host Nate Griffin says he has sources that state OB may be out due to rocky relationship with Rick Smith.


Other key points from the audio if you don't want to listen:

- Hard Knocks crew noticed they didn't like each other much
- Rick forced Os on OB
- OB wanted to roll with Savage for the year
- Only free agent OB had input on was Lamar Miller (seems strange to me)*
- Kubiak had more control than OB does
- Smith didn't want to have another head coach with more personnel power than him again
- OB's relationship with Smith would be the reason he left


The Lamar Miller thing is strange to me. I don't understand why he'd be the only guy OB would have input on. Sounds like ass covering since Miller is the only one who has been decent.
That's what we most have to look out for right now. There's a lot of feces blowing in the wind right now and no matter who you like or don't like in the Texans organization there's no way anyone can possibly believe that this season has gone the way O'Brien, McNair, or Rick McNair wanted it to. Anyone who has any culpability here is going to be making sure that it's their lies that the media repeats most if possible.

Team Texans doesn't have a clear trail of accountability that they're willing to share with the rest of the world so we have only the clues, the leaks, and the speculation to put together a picture with so we're going to get some stuff wrong.

I believe that the two primary football people (I use that term loosely at this point about them both) are not guys I could readily see working together well. Looks may be deceiving but Rick and Bill don't look like either one of them would hire the other if given a choice. If some other source like the Hard Knocks people backed that up I'd be inclined to believe that they make it work rather than it working naturally.

Since we've been hearing weird stuff about who went out and got Os from the very start I totally believe the "Rick forced Os on OB" story. When he started talking about not speaking with Os (other than meeting him during joint practices with the Broncos a year before) prior to the Texans signing him every red flag in Houston went up.

I don't think the "roll with Savage for a year" thing is worth much but it might be true. I don't have any idea what Bill O'Brien looks for in a quarterback. I don't know if he wants one in a house, with a mouse, here or there or anywhere. He signs them old and signs them young, he likes tall ones, short ones, bearded ones, and bald ones. You know, about the only consistent thing with Bill O'Brien's choice of QB's so far has been he seems to have an affinity for guys who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

I don't even think the Lamer Miller signing is that big a feather in anybody's hat so I have no idea why O'Brien would want to single that out as the one he had input in. They went out and got Miami's change of pace back and fed him so much he damn near broke down and just barely topped a thousand yards? Big deal. Any reasonably talented RB can do this in today's NFL. You give the ball to Jonathan Grimes and it wouldn't be as pretty but I bet he could get a thousand yards in 268 carries.

I really believe most of the rest of it though. Smith got his job because of Gary Kubiak and he was subservient to Gary the whole time. I imagine it took a whole lot of ass kissing to transform him into "Rick McNair" and he's not going to sit idly by and see someone else come in here and run things their way. Whether this stuff is all true or not you won't get a replacement for O'Brien here worth anything until Rick's gone. Nobody worth a **** is going to want to deal with this and if O'Brien goes somewhere else and rattles off 10-11 wins the Texans are going to look like pretty stupid.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
That's what we most have to look out for right now. There's a lot of feces blowing in the wind right now and no matter who you like or don't like in the Texans organization there's no way anyone can possibly believe that this season has gone the way O'Brien, McNair, or Rick McNair wanted it to. Anyone who has any culpability here is going to be making sure that it's their lies that the media repeats most if possible.

Team Texans doesn't have a clear trail of accountability that they're willing to share with the rest of the world so we have only the clues, the leaks, and the speculation to put together a picture with so we're going to get some stuff wrong.

I believe that the two primary football people (I use that term loosely at this point about them both) are not guys I could readily see working together well. Looks may be deceiving but Rick and Bill don't look like either one of them would hire the other if given a choice. If some other source like the Hard Knocks people backed that up I'd be inclined to believe that they make it work rather than it working naturally.

Since we've been hearing weird stuff about who went out and got Os from the very start I totally believe the "Rick forced Os on OB" story. When he started talking about not speaking with Os (other than meeting him during joint practices with the Broncos a year before) prior to the Texans signing him every red flag in Houston went up.

I don't think the "roll with Savage for a year" thing is worth much but it might be true. I don't have any idea what Bill O'Brien looks for in a quarterback. I don't know if he wants one in a house, with a mouse, here or there or anywhere. He signs them old and signs them young, he likes tall ones, short ones, bearded ones, and bald ones. You know, about the only consistent thing with Bill O'Brien's choice of QB's so far has been he seems to have an affinity for guys who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

I don't even think the Lamer Miller signing is that big a feather in anybody's hat so I have no idea why O'Brien would want to single that out as the one he had input in. They went out and got Miami's change of pace back and fed him so much he damn near broke down and just barely topped a thousand yards? Big deal. Any reasonably talented RB can do this in today's NFL. You give the ball to Jonathan Grimes and it wouldn't be as pretty but I bet he could get a thousand yards in 268 carries.

I really believe most of the rest of it though. Smith got his job because of Gary Kubiak and he was subservient to Gary the whole time. I imagine it took a whole lot of ass kissing to transform him into "Rick McNair" and he's not going to sit idly by and see someone else come in here and run things their way. Whether this stuff is all true or not you won't get a replacement for O'Brien here worth anything until Rick's gone. Nobody worth a **** is going to want to deal with this and if O'Brien goes somewhere else and rattles off 10-11 wins the Texans are going to look like pretty stupid.
A like isn't enough. Had to quote this and say great post.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I just read this article, and thought it might be a bit made up to get page hits. Now, though, I'm wondering wtf is going on at Kirby:

Glazer: Could Bill O’Brien be the surprise firing?

Glazer says the two sides have never really meshed in Houston. Still, O’Brien has had success despite having holes on the roster. As John McClain of the Houston Chronicle explained this week on PFT Live, blame for the decision to sign quarterback
Brock Osweiler falls to O’Brien and G.M. Rick Smith jointly.

If O’Brien goes (and it would be a mutual parting more than a firing) and Smith stays, Smith’s tenure would extend to a third head coach. Which would raise some eyebrows.


This is a whole lotta' smoke, so natural to wonder if it's a fire.

If they fire..err..."part ways" with O'Brien and keep Smith, I might be done.

Way to early to be saying this. I mean waaaayy to early to be saying this man, but I can't help but think it. Did you read some of my posts in that "Kubiak is stepping down" thread? I had stated that I don't think we've seen the last of Kubes, and I don't. I was thinking that what if OB did get fired next year, and Kubiak wants to come back to coaching. I could easily see Mcnair hiring him back, and Smith would probably love that. Lol! If OB left this off season, then that wouldn't happen obviously, but if Kubiak were to come back in a season or two I could totally see Smithnair wanting to restore that regime again. The thought of that is so scary, that it actually makes me laugh my ass off though.

And as far as this little rumor, I believe every word of it. It sounds exactly like the Houston front office, and it was obvious to me that OB and Smith didn't like each other last season when they had that big fight over firing Mallet.
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
If O’Brien goes... Smith’s tenure would extend to a third head coach. Which would raise some eyebrows.
As it should. Listen to your peers on this one, Bob.

I really believe most of the rest of it though. Smith got his job because of Gary Kubiak and he was subservient to Gary the whole time. I imagine it took a whole lot of ass kissing to transform him into "Rick McNair" and he's not going to sit idly by and see someone else come in here and run things their way. Whether this stuff is all true or not you won't get a replacement for O'Brien here worth anything until Rick's gone. Nobody worth a **** is going to want to deal with this and if O'Brien goes somewhere else and rattles off 10-11 wins the Texans are going to look like pretty stupid.
If Rick Smith implemented a new balance of power simply because Kubiak had too much, then Rick overcompensated and hit the other guardrail. The wise approach would've been moderation and adaptation.

A successful GM has to enable the coach to achieve his vision, not impose his own vision on the coach.
 

texanhead08

All Pro
That's what we most have to look out for right now. There's a lot of feces blowing in the wind right now and no matter who you like or don't like in the Texans organization there's no way anyone can possibly believe that this season has gone the way O'Brien, McNair, or Rick McNair wanted it to. Anyone who has any culpability here is going to be making sure that it's their lies that the media repeats most if possible.

Team Texans doesn't have a clear trail of accountability that they're willing to share with the rest of the world so we have only the clues, the leaks, and the speculation to put together a picture with so we're going to get some stuff wrong.

I believe that the two primary football people (I use that term loosely at this point about them both) are not guys I could readily see working together well. Looks may be deceiving but Rick and Bill don't look like either one of them would hire the other if given a choice. If some other source like the Hard Knocks people backed that up I'd be inclined to believe that they make it work rather than it working naturally.

Since we've been hearing weird stuff about who went out and got Os from the very start I totally believe the "Rick forced Os on OB" story. When he started talking about not speaking with Os (other than meeting him during joint practices with the Broncos a year before) prior to the Texans signing him every red flag in Houston went up.

I don't think the "roll with Savage for a year" thing is worth much but it might be true. I don't have any idea what Bill O'Brien looks for in a quarterback. I don't know if he wants one in a house, with a mouse, here or there or anywhere. He signs them old and signs them young, he likes tall ones, short ones, bearded ones, and bald ones. You know, about the only consistent thing with Bill O'Brien's choice of QB's so far has been he seems to have an affinity for guys who can't hit the broad side of a barn.

I don't even think the Lamer Miller signing is that big a feather in anybody's hat so I have no idea why O'Brien would want to single that out as the one he had input in. They went out and got Miami's change of pace back and fed him so much he damn near broke down and just barely topped a thousand yards? Big deal. Any reasonably talented RB can do this in today's NFL. You give the ball to Jonathan Grimes and it wouldn't be as pretty but I bet he could get a thousand yards in 268 carries.

I really believe most of the rest of it though. Smith got his job because of Gary Kubiak and he was subservient to Gary the whole time. I imagine it took a whole lot of ass kissing to transform him into "Rick McNair" and he's not going to sit idly by and see someone else come in here and run things their way. Whether this stuff is all true or not you won't get a replacement for O'Brien here worth anything until Rick's gone. Nobody worth a **** is going to want to deal with this and if O'Brien goes somewhere else and rattles off 10-11 wins the Texans are going to look like pretty stupid.

The fact that Rick and Gary were tied at the hip is why they both should have been fired in 2013. Its pretty telling of how poorly run the Texans are that Bob McNair kept Rick but fired Gary when **** went south in 2013.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Hey guys if OB leaves, I have a strong suspicion that he'll get a HC job with another franchise right away, and if not I think he ends up as the Patriots OC again since Mcdaniels is leaving. I'd love to see that again honestly, and I'd be stoked if he took Vrabel with him to be their new DC if Patricia gets a HC gig which could very easily happen since he already has like two or three interviews lined up this week.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
As it should. Listen to your peers on this one, Bob.



If Rick Smith implemented a new balance of power simply because Kubiak had too much, then Rick overcompensated and hit the other guardrail. The wise approach would've been moderation and adaptation.

A successful GM has to enable the coach to achieve his vision, not impose his own vision on the coach.

Especially one that had only one tenure as a GM where he failed miserably. Rick's experience as a GM before OB was bad experience.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I don't know what to think anymore.

I really liked the OB hire, but I soured on him at the beggining of his second season and I wanted him fired after last season.

Now I'm not sure if all of this is his fault.

I mean....ALL of it never was his fault, but I do wonder if he could be a good head coach with a few tweaks here and there. There are a lot of qualities about OB that I like.

I think that he has shown that he is a good coach. 3 straight seasons of 9-7 is pretty good along with two AFC South titles. He just failed at finding a QB, but very few HC's are "hitting" on their QB choices these days any way. If the Texans had a QB the past 3 years I think they're a 12-4 type of team. They failed to go after Rivers and Garrapalo the past two off seasons though. I just wish that OB would get a totally new OC and let him do this thing.
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
If O'Brien leaves, he's getting another job immediately. That's exactly why this leak happened: To give O'Brien leverage in this power struggle.

O'Brien bailing after the playoffs leaves the organization in a terrible position -- A much worse position than if Smith is fired. Smith has to go.
 

DX-TEX

#TomSavageDontCare
Hey guys if OB leaves, I have a strong suspicion that he'll get a HC job with another franchise right away, and if not I think he ends up as the Patriots OC again since Mcdaniels is leaving. I'd love to see that again honestly, and I'd be stoked if he took Vrabel with him to be their new DC if Patricia gets a HC gig which could very easily happen since he already has like two or three interviews lined up this week.
BOB will get another HC gig I have no doubts. Cant remember who but someone in the national media said last year when those early rumors hit that the Glazers in Tampa would be all over him to work with Jameis if the Texans moved on from him
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
http://www.sbnation1560.com/sources-obrien-leave-houston-bad-relationship-rick-smith/

Audio in Link.





1560 Radio host Nate Griffin says he has sources that state OB may be out due to rocky relationship with Rick Smith.


Other key points from the audio if you don't want to listen:

- Hard Knocks crew noticed they didn't like each other much
- Rick forced Os on OB
- OB wanted to roll with Savage for the year
- Only free agent OB had input on was Lamar Miller (seems strange to me)*
- Kubiak had more control than OB does
- Smith didn't want to have another head coach with more personnel power than him again
- OB's relationship with Smith would be the reason he left


The Lamar Miller thing is strange to me. I don't understand why he'd be the only guy OB would have input on. Sounds like ass covering since Miller is the only one who has been decent.
I hatched this theory last year, sometime in October, when the wheels were coming off on defense and special teams... I recalled a peculiar Hard Knocks seen and went and rewatched it... It is the scene where OB and Rick Smith are discussing whether to keep Charles James III or the other CB (name eludes me now) and the two of them mutually agreed to cut Charles James III. I believe that scene was staged and there is one earlier (not caught on tape) and OB is fighting for Charles James but Rick Smith shoots it down. To add insult to injury, because James was the central storyline of Hard Knocks, OB was forced to recreate this meeting in front of the cameras.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
BOB will get another HC gig I have no doubts. Cant remember who but someone in the national media said last year when those early rumors hit that the Glazers in Tampa would be all over him to work with Jameis if the Texans moved on from him
Would they still though? Lovie Smith is a damn good coach. I wouldn't have had a problem if we hired him when we looked hard at him. Hard to see them firing him when Winston is getting better. Plus, I just don't see why anyone would be hype on OB working with their QB after seeing OB's offense and his effect on our QB's the last 3 years. I like OB and all, but not his effect that he has had on this offense. Its been just gross. Lol!
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I hatched this theory last year, sometime in October, when the wheels were coming off on defense and special teams... I recalled a peculiar Hard Knocks seen and went and rewatched it... It is the scene where OB and Rick Smith are discussing whether to keep Charles James III or the other CB (name eludes me now) and the two of them mutually agreed to cut Charles James III. I believe that scene was staged and there is one earlier (not caught on tape) and OB is fighting for Charles James but Rick Smith shoots it down. To add insult to injury, because James was the central storyline of Hard Knocks, OB was forced to recreate this meeting in front of the cameras.

Ole Dale, where ya been? Why such a stranger these days?
 

DX-TEX

#TomSavageDontCare
Would they still though? Lovie Smith is a damn good coach. I wouldn't have had a problem if we hired him when we looked hard at him. Hard to see them firing him when Winston is getting better. Plus, I just don't see why anyone would be hype on OB working with their QB after seeing OB's offense and his effect on our QB's the last 3 years. I like OB and all, but not his effect that he has had on this offense. Its been just gross. Lol!
Lovie was fired after last season, Koetter is the HC now. I wish I could remember who it was who said it but they were adamant that when they decided they were getting rid of Lovie they were watching the Houston situation closely
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
If O'Brien leaves, he's getting another job immediately. That's exactly why this leak happened: To give O'Brien leverage in this power struggle.

O'Brien bailing after the playoffs leaves the organization in a terrible position -- A much worse position than if Smith is fired. Smith has to go.

I disagree. I think there are some easy fixes other than finding that QB, but it can be done in this off season in FA.

You get any hot young HC or desperate veteran one looking to get another shot, and he looks at this team and sees a great defense already. Then he sees Hopkins/Fuller at WR. He has the best defensive player in the game bar none!!! Sorry, but I had to add exclamations to that because its Watt. Lol! He just has to ride out one season of Brock on or off the bench, and can draft a QB in the first one or two years. He can go after Jimmy G or Rivers in FA, and try to win NOW. Rivers may not be able to happen, because we'd have to pay him and Oz at the same time, but Jimmy would be delayed any way.

He either looks at that or is completely turned off from working for Smithnair. A HC can get paid a lot here, but they'll have to work under the constraints of two dummies. On the field though, the Texans have a very attractive team, and they have options to heavily improve at the QB position.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Lovie was fired after last season, Koetter is the HC now. I wish I could remember who it was who said it but they were adamant that when they decided they were getting rid of Lovie they were watching the Houston situation closely
:kubepalm: Oh boy, I didn't realize that.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
All points make sense, but the frustrating one is forcing Osweiler on O'Brien.

At the end of last season, nobody doubted that Savage would be the next in line to start. Then Osweiler is thrown into the picture out of nowhere, and no one -- not fans, not media, not the FO -- could explain why Savage was snubbed. Now we get confirmation: Osweiler was never part of O'Brien's plan. O'Brien didn't want him. It's the one position that the coach should have the most decision making power over and he got none. Wow.

What would've been a worst case scenario if Tom Savage got hurt? Brandon Weeden. That's still better than Osweiler as starter.

If I were O'Brien, I would want to leave too. And if that happens, where does that leave team? Romeo Crennel may go with him. Brilliant! And who would replace O'Brien? Who knows, the best candidates will already be picked over by eight other teams by the time our playoff run ends.

McNair, there's only one right move here: Fire your GM. At this point, it's not even a gut decision. Look at the stats and your flushed $37 million. Prove that you're a business man.
Thorsson is Bill O'Brien! That explains so much!

Actually Bill O'Brien has won games with people I don't even totally understand how it was possible to win with under the circumstances. Case Keenum couldn't get a win until Bill O'Brien came to town. Brandon Weeden that year in Dallas couldn't get a win until he got on a Bill O'Brien led team. He couldn't get Hoyer past the pressure of a playoff game but then it's not like anyone else has ever been able to do that and until Mallet got delusions of grandeur and didn't come clean about his pectoral injury he had him playing well too. Fitz played well (for Fitz), Yates kept right on trucking like always.

Not Os though. Os just hasn't worked out. Makes me wonder how much is Os and how much is O'Brien.
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
There is no ******* way O'Brien only had input on Miller.

He's responsible for all these fucks.

God I hope he leaves and takes every trace of Patriots cancer with him. If this happens it will automatically make 2017 a better year than 2016.

Both O'Brien and Smith need to be launched into the sun. In fact, I wouldn't bat an eye if we got rid of every single person in the franchise top to bottom except for like 10 players at the most.

This entire thing needs a complete enemaxorcism.
 
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DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
My biggest fear is that the Texans will fire OB or he will resign and go off to another team and become the next BB.

I don't know how much faith to put into these rumors and speculations.
 

Scooter

Funky
My biggest fear is that the Texans will fire OB or he will resign and go off to another team and become the next BB.
I agree. I worry that he might follow in the footsteps of ... umm and uhh, wait wasn't there that one guy? O'Brien is going to go back to New England and take Josh McDaniels' (Tebow in the first round) spot as a returning flunky.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
My biggest fear is that the Texans will fire OB or he will resign and go off to another team and become the next BB.

I don't know how much faith to put into these rumors and speculations.

That's what all this stuff is about. Putting out the idea that Bill O'Brien might just give up one of only 32 NFL head coaching gigs in the world because he doesn't like Rick McNair. He'll take his Magic Eight Ball and go somewhere else. They're playing out a battle of wills in the media trying to win in the court of public opinion. I don't think "we" matter very much apart from our being customers and I don't think the McNair's lurk Texans Talk for ideas or anything but generally when this place starts to boil over it means the general public is starting to boil over and Bob is a businessman most of all. It's funny but about the time we've had enough of Capers, Casserly, Kubiak, Carr, etc the team reaches that point as well. That probably means nothing but it might point to the owner having a fan-like amount of patience or maybe paying attention to the direction the wind is blowing around his cash-cow.

Rick's reply in the press will probably start to focus on how hard O'Brien is to work with and how he's really responsible for the bad signings. This is going to be a lot of fun to watch but it has the potential to do a lot of harm to the franchise overall. I hope Bob McNair is paying attention to this stuff.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
We all say we want these guys to be held accountable, but every time they're held accountable by the only guy who can hold them accountable, we complain that he's a meddling owner.

It's ridiculous the amount of power Kubiak had in this organization as a first time head coach, but McNair let him do his thing. David Carr was one stipulation... but that's the way it goes. He was our 1st ever pick, the guy had the talent, I don't think anyone denies that. We either had to pay him $8M or let him walk. If he were let go & became a franchise QB we'd be talking about another wasted opportunity. That decision had to be made before Kubiak could work with him. So all he's got is a bunch of game tape & a few conversations with Carr & there's no doubt Carr could come across as someone who gets it. But on game day...

Still, it got so bad that most of the country thinks the fans in Houston cheered when Matt Schaub got hurt. That's a decision Kubiak refused to make. He farts around with Keenum all season. We lead in most of those 8 games at half time & blew the lead, not being able to score... not scoring, because I think they were fully capable if Kubiak didn't turtle up every game. He pulls Keenum, throws Schaub back in there, damn right he needed his hand slapped. McNair did the right thing then, we all said as much at the time (we may not have liked the way he did it) but now we can pile it all up to a "meddling" owner.

Kubiak was only in that situation because our meddling owner fixed Kubiak's defensive problems.

Then O'brien says he can win with Fitz, then benches him. He says he can win with Hoyer, then benches him... neither had a winning record as the starting QB of the Houston Texans. Then he sticks Hoyer in that playoff game after Rick done got him Yates & Weeden. Our QB turns the ball over four times in the first half & he's trotted out there for the second half... there's no way in the world that O'brien should have had any say on who our QB should be. He's proven he couldn't pick a franchise QB out of a HOF candidates list. He can coach the heck out of them, but he can't pick them to save his life.

So our GM does his job & gets him a decent prospect with big game experience.

After these rumors come out that there's friction between Smith(McNair) & O'b, I don't think we can base our opinion of Brock on anything that happened this season. All season long O'bs play calling has been called predictable & stale. Sure, it's possible that's due to the limitations of the QB. But we've seen some pretty good drives from Osweiler. So we know it's possible. IMO it's the coach's job to find a way to get more of those drives out of his offense. Do the things that you're successful at more often than you don't.

But that's not what O'brien has done. He doesn't try to get his QB into a rhythm until late in games. He doesn't call "complimentary routes" until he "has" to. & I've yet to see us exploit any matchup. Most teams will attack the weaker matchups, the one where we have the advantage, but we go after teams best players. Whoever Jalen Ramsey was covering was the guy we're going to throw the ball to & that's with Tom Savage.

The guy is a joke. If he can't do his job, which is coach the players he's given to the best of his abilities... we don't need him. I think McNair spoiled him by giving him the benefit of the doubt, giving him more influence in player selection than he earned. But he screwed up twice. He shouldn't get a third chance, especially without proving that he can develop the players he's given... especially when it seems like there's a lack of "want to"

That said, I think the dumbass figured out the best thing for him to do is win. The more he wins from here out, the better his ability to negotiate new terms with the Texans will be, if he wants to be here, & the better the chances he'll be selected to coach another team, if he decides to leave.

Had he gone to San Francisco, he'd have had to win with Kaepernick/Gabbert, or he'd have had to been fired after one year.

Had he gone to Buffalo, he'd have had to win with Ej Manuel, Tyrod Taylor, or Cordale Jones, or he'd have been fired after two years.

If he went to Miami, he was going to have to make Tannehill work...

I can't think of any team that will give him more say in personnel than he's had here. He botched it. He needs to deal with it, make it work, or leave.
 

Scooter

Funky
Bouye. Smith got that one right.
I'm relatively confident that Bouye on most other teams is struggling to make a roster. Between Wade Phillips, Vance Joseph and Romeo Crennell he's gotten the best coaching anyone could receive. To his credit, Bouye has taken that teaching and worked his butt off (I love seeing that kind of dedication). He has some work to do with his hands and hips, but it's rare that he takes wrong step in his drop which is almost unbelievable. He's still behind Joseph, Jackson and Johnson though. I'm absolutely NOT trying to diminish his great play, just pointing out that we're coaching the hell out of DB's, and Johnson looked like he was going to be that monster before injury. If our front 3 are healthy we can rival Denver's Talib-Harris-Roby. Bouye (assuming Watt/Clowney) would give us 4cb rotation that could carry almost any offense through the playoffs.
 
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Texian

Hall of Fame
This hullabaloo is just another reason why it will be difficult to get a good head coach to come to Houston. Coaches are a fraternity and the word circulating through the fraternity is you don't want to get involved with the cesspool Houston has for management and administration.
 

Vinnie

with an I E
Whether this stuff is all true or not you won't get a replacement for O'Brien here worth anything until Rick's gone. Nobody worth a **** is going to want to deal with this and if O'Brien goes somewhere else and rattles off 10-11 wins the Texans are going to look like pretty stupid.
You mean the same way they looked stupid when the last coaching staff was jettisoned and went on to win the Super Bowl? What's the common denominator?

 

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
Bouye. Smith got that one right.
I'm not so sure about that to an extent. Most downfield coverage situations I see Bouye in, he's grabbing and consistently interfering. He's definitely worth keeping around at low cost, but he's not all that great of a player right now.

I also remember that conversation being about Rolle.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
You mean the same way they looked stupid when the last coaching staff was jettisoned and went on to win the Super Bowl? What's the common denominator?

You mean they took a team that had already been to the SB the year before they took the jobs, back to the SB? With the greatest QB to ever play the game outside of Brady? And that Top 5 defense? And now this year with no QB the Broncos looked like the Texans? You mean THAT coaching staff?
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
Bouye. Smith got that one right.
It was Jumal Rolle and both of them got it wrong. O'Brien backed James but as soon as he had to play defense instead of special teams he got exposed. Smith backed Rolle, who has been on 5 teams and 4 different practice squads and has yet to stick with any of them during his brief career.
 

Scooter

Funky
You mean they took a team that had already been to the SB the year before they took the jobs, back to the SB? With the greatest QB to ever play the game outside of Brady? And that Top 5 defense? And now this year with no QB the Broncos looked like the Texans? You mean THAT coaching staff?
Do you watch the games you're talking about?
 

banned1976

American
You mean they took a team that had already been to the SB the year before they took the jobs, back to the SB? With the greatest QB to ever play the game outside of Brady? And that Top 5 defense? And now this year with no QB the Broncos looked like the Texans? You mean THAT coaching staff?
Manning threw 9 TD's to 17 interceptions in 2015. They won a Super Bowl with that QB playing his worst season since his rookie year and Brock Osweiler. Pretty similar situation to this team. Great defense and piss poor passing attack.
 

Wolf

100% Texan
[Divided Between Bill O'Brien And Brock Osweiler. A tough season gets tougher for the Houston Texans. After a quarterback meeting, a heated exchange took place between starter Brock Osweiler and head coach Bill O'Brien, as reported by CBS Sports.Oct 16, 2016
Been an interesting few months with this custody fight....
 
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sandman

Brexit Advisor
Manning threw 9 TD's to 17 interceptions in 2015. They won a Super Bowl with that QB playing his worst season since his rookie year and Brock Osweiler. Pretty similar situation to this team. Great defense and piss poor passing attack.
My point was that the team Kubiak/Wade inherited from John Fox, who had a .792 winning percentage the previous three years and just took the Broncos to the SB, was quite a different team than what Kubiak/Wade were fired from in 2013. Taking the Broncos, primed to repeat as AFC Champs back to the SB, doesn't nullify the justifiable firings for going 2-14 with the Texans back in 2013. They are mutually exclusive events and are not a referendum on the Texans FO.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Way to early to be saying this. I mean waaaayy to early to be saying this man, but I can't help but think it. Did you read some of my posts in that "Kubiak is stepping down" thread? I had stated that I don't think we've seen the last of Kubes, and I don't. I was thinking that what if OB did get fired next year, and Kubiak wants to come back to coaching. I could easily see Mcnair hiring him back, and Smith would probably love that. Lol! If OB left this off season, then that wouldn't happen obviously, but if Kubiak were to come back in a season or two I could totally see Smithnair wanting to restore that regime again. The thought of that is so scary, that it actually makes me laugh my ass off though.

And as far as this little rumor, I believe every word of it. It sounds exactly like the Houston front office, and it was obvious to me that OB and Smith didn't like each other last season when they had that big fight over firing Mallet.
And this is when I become a Cowboy fan.
 


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