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Ryan Mallett
- Thread starter Trouble
- Start date
I think we played well. But I don't think it explains what I saw of the Cleveland Browns. I know 6-3 sounds "magical" & all, but it's not telling us everything.
The Jags beat them, 24-6 so it shouldn't be too far fetched to believe they're not very good. Maybe when they're on, they're on. But when they're off....... oh boy.
If I were a Cleveland fan I'd be extremely upset with what I saw. If the Texans had played that way, most of us here would be extremely upset &... as a matter of fact, it would be just like that 12-4 paper tiger season.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
The day I start making my decision on whether my teams QB is good or not based on this dorks opinion, I'll just stop watching football.
Well, I'm not going to hold his looks against him. I used to enjoy his writings on footballoutsiders.com until I followed him on twitter. I don't think I've seen a positive tweet from him on anything; always being a smartass.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
If film on Mallet theoretically works against success in subsequent games, then expect the chemistry and timing that comes with increased experience between him and his receivers, Oline and RBs to more than make up for it.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
...
False Start
On # 69
I forgot to add your quote, but that is what I was referring to.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
RC doesn't bring much to the table for me. Negative Nancy.
I really want to get behind Mallet. I just don't want to get on the hype train like we did for Keenum.
That arm though!
We will see.
I think he will fare well against the blitz.
Has the arm and quick release to get himself out of trouble.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I think some of his skepticism is warranted, but I'm more optimistic then he is. I'm on the high side of that 40% he mentions - Not giddy but I'm intrigued and think he has the potential to be our guy. I've also been around long enough to realize he could also crash and burn.
My gut instinct tells me he is not going to be an elite level QB, but I think it was DB that mentioned we just need a good quality game manager. He doesn't need to be Tom Brady, and I think it's entirely possible he can meet that basic goal quite easily. And given that I'm not sold on a college QB (at this point) in next years draft, that's good enough for me to sign him to a longer term deal if the parameters fall into place.
Of course, I'm not Rick Smith just a typical arm chair GM.
It will be interesting to see what Cinci throws at him now that there is a little film on him - and how Mallet and the Texans in general respond on offense.
My gut instinct tells me he is not going to be an elite level QB, but I think it was DB that mentioned we just need a good quality game manager. He doesn't need to be Tom Brady, and I think it's entirely possible he can meet that basic goal quite easily. And given that I'm not sold on a college QB (at this point) in next years draft, that's good enough for me to sign him to a longer term deal if the parameters fall into place.
Of course, I'm not Rick Smith just a typical arm chair GM.
It will be interesting to see what Cinci throws at him now that there is a little film on him - and how Mallet and the Texans in general respond on offense.
I think there is plenty of room between "elite" and "game manager". Even if he isn't elite, I expect him to be quite a bit more capable than a game manager, at least as I picture a game manager.
And yeah, there is always that possibility he does a crash and burn. I think that is less likely with him than it has been with other QBs that have been on the Texans roster though.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Game manager is getting way overused. Big Ben has rarely appeared on anyone's elite list but he is no game manager.
I'm not sure where this idea came from that our O only needs a game manager. That has not been its history with the Patriots. And what coach in the world would say "my system won't work without an elite QB?" To the contrary they all say they can get by with a game manager. That doesn't say anything.
This is really different from the Keenum thing. Case had a stack of reasons working against him. #1, he was undrafted. #2 he was running the scout team in his third year.
Undrafted meant there were reasons he wasn't drafted.
For me, it was his height, his school, his conference. His size meant that he was going to have to find passing lanes, the school he played at & the conference he played with tells me he was probably the best player on his team & he didn't play against top level talent very much if at all.
Running the scout team means he wasn't learning "a" system.
So once he got on the field, he's having to make stuff happen & since that system the center called the protection, it's possible he never saw the free runner because he didn't know the guy was going to be free.
Mallet doesn't have that issue. Not only was he drafted, he was considered by a team 35th overall. He's got everything you'd be looking for in a QB. He was also a back-up for two years, learning that teams offense, preparing to play at any given moment.
He's also got a run game & a defense that causes turnovers.
That's not to say there's no cause for concern, but it shouldn't be anything like the Case thing.
Agreed. It's like people calling Russell Wilson a "game manager."
http://www.thv11.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/11/21/ryan-mallett-second-start-bengals/19355187/
*****
Mallett is definitely picking up some new fans for the Texans in Arkansas.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
I'm working as fast as I can to complete the evaluation video of Mallet's first start. But what I am noticing while producing it is that much of his performance does not have any reads. Just timing and rhythm throws. For example on the interception by Haden had Mallett been making progressions he would have seen his TE streaking open for an uncontested TD down the right sideline.
This makes me wonder what is going to happen when he is forced to start making reads, and you know it will happen now that teams have tape, and will continue to collect it during the rest of the season. Will Mallet be able to come off his primary target and hit the open man, or will he always sling it out there because the confidence in his arm?
Having said that, I am seeing some promising things and still believe he could be the real deal, even if I am a bit guarded until we play a better team. That could happen today, but to me the Bengals are pretenders and they have completely fallen apart each time we have played them. So even if we get the W and Mallet looks good a 2nd time. I am not sure it will be enough to convince me.
I think I will go all in if Mallet leads the boys into Indy and knocks off Luck and the Colts. To have that monkey off our backs will go a long way to changing the immediate fortunes of this team. But one game at a time of course. Let's beat the Bengals and go from there.
This makes me wonder what is going to happen when he is forced to start making reads, and you know it will happen now that teams have tape, and will continue to collect it during the rest of the season. Will Mallet be able to come off his primary target and hit the open man, or will he always sling it out there because the confidence in his arm?
Having said that, I am seeing some promising things and still believe he could be the real deal, even if I am a bit guarded until we play a better team. That could happen today, but to me the Bengals are pretenders and they have completely fallen apart each time we have played them. So even if we get the W and Mallet looks good a 2nd time. I am not sure it will be enough to convince me.
I think I will go all in if Mallet leads the boys into Indy and knocks off Luck and the Colts. To have that monkey off our backs will go a long way to changing the immediate fortunes of this team. But one game at a time of course. Let's beat the Bengals and go from there.
This is going to be based on defenses ability to disguise what he sees before & after the snap. I don't think the throw to Hopkins is Mallett "forcing" a throw. He had the right read & Haden was beat. Better ball placement would have netted a TD.
At the same time, I saw him going through his progressions plenty. He went to his second & third read plenty of times, of course, PFF said his passer rating was in the 30s when he held the ball longer than 2.5 seconds, so that's definitely an area of concern.
But if your first read is open... you want him to pull the trigger right?
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
While I agree if your primary is open you want to pull the trigger. having said that Hopkins was not as open as the TE was so it was forced. And I don't think you can say better ball placement. As you said in another post. Had Hopkins gone up and gotten the ball at it's high point it would have been a TD.
As far as reads, wait for the video. Unless you are watching the ALL 22 you're seeing things, or not remembering correctly bro. I'm not saying he never made reads. I am saying there were very few. Most of the passes were timing/rhythm throws to primary target covered or not.
The pass knocked down in the end zone trying to get it to Damaris Johnson is another good example. Williams was on him like white on rice, but Hopkins was wide open on a shorter completion. That was just a great defensive play leaping over Johnson without touching him and knocking the ball down. It helps when the guy you are covering is only 5'6". Granted the defender (Williams) was only 5'9", but had that been Hopkins, or anyone else not employed by Willy Wonka, the defender would not have been able to leap over the WR and bat that ball down so easily.
... I.. don't think so. Going through your progressions isn't about scanning the field & deciding who is "more" open. It's about finding your reads & deciding if that's what you want or not.
If you have a receiver streaking into the endzone with a trailing defender, you put the ball in front of him. You don't look for someone "more" open. Same with the Damaris throw. The defender is behind him, you put the ball low on the numbers... if the defender made a great play, the defender made a great play. At the same time, if the defender is Eric Berry or Revis, you might not read that as open.
I'll wait for your video, but I don't think it's fair to say this was the wrong read, or that was the wrong read because so & so was more open. Now if you're saying with "this coverage & these routes, the read should have been blah, blah, blah... " I can see that.
I can't stand Marshall Faulk as a commentator, but he said it right.
Paraphrasing:
It's on Mallett, we're going to have to wait & see.
Paraphrasing:
It's on Mallett, we're going to have to wait & see.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Right there, you've already lost me.
You've got a misconception about what a read is and is not.
There are pre-snap and post-snap reads. What you see with a lot of what Mallett was doing is making pre-snap reads and then hitting the receiver those reads told him to go to. That's not a case of him not making a read.
Also, making a read is not looking around for the most open receiver, it's about looking at where specific players are and what they're doing and letting that tell him who should be thrown to.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Exactly reads and scanning for the most open are opposites. It's going through the progression to find someone open enough as defined by that situation.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
(I should've read Pencil Neck and Infantrycak's posts first... Who said the same thing, only did so more efficiently. I will leave my post, though, simply to express that I agree with them.
I agree with you that he appeared to throw to his primary quite often. I am not concerned, though, because I only saw him force the ball one time (a pass to AJ into double coverage on the left hashmark- I believe it was caught)... The interception was a good decision, IMO, but he put a little too much air under it and Haden made a great play. On the pass that hit Kruger in the hands, he simply failed to read the zone drop (the slant appeared wide open to him). Not seeing a wide open TE doesn't mean he made a bad post-snap read. OB's system, and most NFL systems, are designed route progressions. If the 1st read is available, then that is the pass that should be made. It is more likely that missing the wide open TE is indicative of a missed pre-snap read, actually.
He got rid of the ball extremely quickly last week. I think it is a credit to Mallett's confidence and ability to make pre-snap reads. If you watch any of the great pocket QBs, very seldom will you see them scan the field. Instead, they have drawn conclusions before the snap and aligned their post-snap expectations in their head... which quickens their progressions... QBs that noticeably scan the field are usually the more athletic QBs accustomed to holding the ball longer and QBs still learning the system.
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Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
We'll have to disagree. A QB is looking for the best possible outcome and his job is to score points and minimize turnovers. If streaking means he has a step or two then ok. But this was not the case with either throw. The defender was in the hip pocket of Johnson the whole way on the first throw, and Hopkins was bracketed. The fact that Haden intercepted the 2nd pass emphasizes my point. The first pass to Damaris could have just as easily been intercepted instead of batted down.
There is the correct read, and an incorrect read. Risking a turnover because you are being greedy thinking you can "fit it in" instead of hitting the wide open guy is an incorrect read IMO. Just because your primary has single coverage in your pre snap read does not mean that is where you must go with the ball. Throwing into double coverage is not a good read when you have single coverage on the other side of the field. Perhaps it was a trust issue, I don't know. Fiedorowicz was the streaking TE, and Hopkins was who he chose to throw it to. I can see wanting to give your proven play maker a chance instead of a rookie who has not really shown anything yet.
A correct read IMO comes down to seeing your primary receiver with a half a step, but progressing to your secondary and seeing that he is wide open for the score as opposed to a drive killing interception, or a near interception that was batted down. When you watch the video, you will see Mallett never looked off of his primary target, and so never even saw the TE streaking wide open. The only read Mallet made in this case was when to throw it. He had no intention to throw it to anyone else once he received the snap IMO.
Don't get me wrong though. It was awesome to see us taking shots at the end zone for a change, and long overdue. I also believe Mallett could be the real deal as he will surely improve as he gets more playing time. I just feel like the plays were scripted, and the target had been selected before the ball was snapped because of something they saw on film. We went to that same route twice, and failed both times. Both times because of great defensive plays, not because the receivers were not open, or the pass was bad. Although I was surprised Hopkins did not go up for that ball.
Haden and Williams both displayed tremendous closing speed on those plays.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Here is the disconnect. If two reads are in the same field of view, sure take the better of the two. But you don't pass over open, move your eyes away from that option in hopes of finding something more open AND the hope that if there isn't you can come back to the 1st read. As soon as any read in your field of view is open you take it.
Agreed.
And most of the time the QB doesn't have time to "shop around" for a better deal. Take the "money" that's there.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Yep.
And I want to add that I think people sometimes forget these guys have helmets on which restrict their view. And even without that it's still hard to see the whole field with exact precision. All qb's miss open guys at time. Not good if it's a habit though. Qb's aren't seeing the play from a birds eye view. Live at ground level is different so I'd caution to take that into account as well.
Everyone can relate. Almost like driving. Some things are harder to see behind the wheel vs being in a helicopter and saying why didn't he get in that lane?
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Maybe next time don't anoint players after one game?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Maybe next time quote someone who did.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Yep, the dude sucks..and its only one bad game..but he looked like he doesn't even belong in the nfl, much less a starter.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Oh but wait, i thought his quick release was making all the difference? Lol at some of u guys. He had no run game to keep the pressure off him today and he looked quite terrible when he had to make plays. Hopefully he can learn from this and come back next week better...but today's game wasnt encouraging for me b/c it validated just about everything i thought about him from the jump.
Some time ago in this thread i stated he'd be airmailing alot of his passes...just a common problem with guys who have arms as big as his...that was on full display today. Even on lots of his completions the WR's had to jump to up to catch them.
The blueprint has been laid...get after him and his mechanics breakdown and his accuracy is trash. He also stares down his WR's alot too.
Some time ago in this thread i stated he'd be airmailing alot of his passes...just a common problem with guys who have arms as big as his...that was on full display today. Even on lots of his completions the WR's had to jump to up to catch them.
The blueprint has been laid...get after him and his mechanics breakdown and his accuracy is trash. He also stares down his WR's alot too.
RTP2110
All Pro
The one throw that stood out to me was the crossing route to AJ inside the 10. The entire middle of the field was wide open. That was a walk in TD if would have lead AJ just a little bit.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Maybe now we can dispense with all the BS about QB measurables. The only measurable a QB has to have is between the ears. Everything else is negotiable.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
Sounds like what happened to Keenum last year...
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
That's what separates QBs . A guy that can still play after the defense adjust to what he does .
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Would not go that far, i still love his pocket presence, and yes accuracy can be fixed. He is just putting to much of that arm into his short, medium throws. He just has to learn to take a little of his throws.
I think his accuracy seems to be tied to how hard he throws it. He seemed to be more accurate when took a little off the passes. I think he completes those passes and it's a whole different ball game. Even with all our soft coverage this game fell on the offense. Mallett makes those throws and it's a winnable game
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I would agree with you if he was a 1st yr. rook..but he's not. Dude's been in the league for 4 years.
I'll take the same stance with his accuracy that i take with Dwight Howard's post game skills. If he aint got it by now, it likely aint coming.
I disagree. The lack of touch I saw out there today was something you'd typically see from a QB in the 9th grade. The art of "taking a little off the throws" is something that can't be mastered overnight.
In short, he's unpolished. Kirkpatrick is not the answer. You wanted to know if Mallet was, he showed he's not either.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Lol in the league 4 yrs with no experience.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Mallet will be fine
Bingo.
stingray
Hall of Fame
As a 3rd stringer, yes I agree.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Well, that didn't go the way I envisioned it or how I hoped.
He was a lot more accurate against the Browns. If they can't get that under control, then it's bye-bye Mallett.
He was a lot more accurate against the Browns. If they can't get that under control, then it's bye-bye Mallett.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
This is why many of us were advising caution last week when half the board was anointing the guy after a solid 1st start.
Last week we saw the good of Ryan Mallett. The pocket movement, the quick release, and the arm strength to make tough throws. Things we were told were positives and turned out to be true.
This week we saw the bad of Ryan Mallett. The inaccuracy, the poor ball placement and poor touch, inconsistency going through his reads, and forcing throws because of the faith in his arm. These were all things we were told were negatives and turned out to be true.
This is going to be a process people. It's more than one or two weeks. It's the remainder of the season and even then you won't have the full story. Just a foundation that will help you make the decision to keep him and continue the journey or let him go and begin a new one.
If you aren't ready for that process and want to make the decision based off one good or bad game then it's probably time for you to check out for the rest of the year. This team isn't going to the playoffs and anyone honest with themselves never really expected them to.
Last week we saw the good of Ryan Mallett. The pocket movement, the quick release, and the arm strength to make tough throws. Things we were told were positives and turned out to be true.
This week we saw the bad of Ryan Mallett. The inaccuracy, the poor ball placement and poor touch, inconsistency going through his reads, and forcing throws because of the faith in his arm. These were all things we were told were negatives and turned out to be true.
This is going to be a process people. It's more than one or two weeks. It's the remainder of the season and even then you won't have the full story. Just a foundation that will help you make the decision to keep him and continue the journey or let him go and begin a new one.
If you aren't ready for that process and want to make the decision based off one good or bad game then it's probably time for you to check out for the rest of the year. This team isn't going to the playoffs and anyone honest with themselves never really expected them to.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Hes been in 3 1/2 years..this isnt a rookie whos learning the ropes..i give bortles some time. Not this guy.
Three more games like this, hes a goner in my opinion. Let savage start.