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Rumor: VY scores a 6
- Thread starter DFAN
- Start date
Nighthawk
Rookie
Hoth-Boy said:
Whether Vince got a 6 the first time or not:
Just in case somebody doesn't get it: the Wonderlic is not 1 test. It is one KIND of test. Like IQ tests, and ACT and GRE tests, there are hundreds of different tests and new ones made up all the time by the owners (Wonderlic). So having a second chance at taking the test is no more advantage than having taken a few practice tests before taking the one at the combine.
That Vince's handlers didn't have him take a dozen or so before the combine, like every other top players' handlers did, is a crime.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
Nighthawk said:
Try reading what I wrote before firing off with your rebuttal. I was referring to the "stupid" comments: namely the ones that I quoted, the type of talk that has absolutely zero to do with perception of Carr's football skill, i.e. the extremely weak church-going-guy-equals-loser, GQ-haircut, bla bla bull**** bull****. Same thing as criticizing Vince for showing up to the White House in jeans or [allegedly] scoring a 6 on a test that a monkey with a broken pencil could crack double digits on. Only thing is, scouts actually do pay [very little] attention to the Wonderlic, whereas nobody grades Carr on his do'.
As for Vince's skill vs Carr's skill, I've been riding this carousel since January and I'm not going to get on it again with you. Sorry.
chuckm said:
There is another answer you know... their are people who didn't like David Carr to begin with. Many would rathe have taken Julius Peppers instead. I'm not one of them. I didn't know who the heck David Carr was, but I did notice Joey Harrington... I wanted Joey. But my brother-in-law assured me Carr was the right choice.... So I gave him the benefit of the doubt....... I made excuses for him for four years(that does include last year). Actually in 2004, I started to think we may have made the right choice. Even at the end of the 2004 season, I was thinking David didn't have a great year, but he wasn't given enough time.... AT the same time, I recall saying "throw the D@#$ ball" an awful lot...... or "Where were you going..... dude just pushed him over there".
Look, I think David Carr in all likely hood, will be a good QB. But that's about the extent of it.. good can get you to the SuperBowl.... Good will most certainly win you a lot of games.... But I want better... Plain and Simple.
I don't blame everything on Carr, but Carr did somethings I never tought I'd see a quarterback do...... and he didn't do it just once, he did it often.... then there is that statement "I'd rather tack a sack, than throw an interception" for the most part I agree, a QB should think that way. But... what if he is taking it to the extreme. Sure, his recievers drop balls, but Dave should still throw the ball, and give them a chance.
So, is the "gossip" site somehow associated with the guy that McClain said got fired over the incident? Was he some sort of plant by the site? Why would he be made to apologize and then be fired if there wasn't anything to it? (Not necessarily the score, but leaking info at all) They "reported" what was openly known to several reporters via the leaker (including McClain himself) per McClain on 610 this morning. How is this any different than ESPN.com, and the other multiple sources that have reported the same thing, other than the "gossip" site got the scoop posted first? Is the world THAT full of VY 'haters' that they're springing up everywhere? Among the staff at the combine? NOW who's into conspiracy theories here?Vinny said:
Ok, now you've got me confused.Nighthawk said:
Having a second chance IS an advantage, whether or not the questions have been changed. Understanding the formatting of a test, and being prepared for the way it ASKS questions is a HUGE advantage. If it wasn't, then why should Vince handlers be "taken to task" for not preparing him for it properly? Which is it?Hey, I'd like to know the FULL, REAL story here as well, but this one is as muddied as they come.
Nighthawk
Rookie
disaacks3 said:Ok, now you've got me confused.
I said it was "no more advantage than" having taken prep tests. Since all the other test takers had decent agents and reps or friends or college coaches they probably had taken prep tests, which are, I gather, widely available.
Also, many reports suggest VY is not the first to take a second formal test.
That VY hadn't taken the test 20 times before is the fault of his agents and reps. A stupid mistake. But VY's fault, finally, for not selecting a smart, serious, experienced agent.
PS: You also gotta wonder why, after three days, the mods here haven't corrected the headline of this thread.
Long-Spurs-Texan
Waterboy
Nighthawk said:
Because it's satisying to read it from start to finish. The best part is watching all the gutless little Hyenas pile on. Even better watching them post their stupid little pictures & special avatars & signatures. Watching them edit, delete, & disappear? Priceless...
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
You've not seen me edit, or delete a thing. I make no apologies for anything I've posted, and I retract none of it. If my pic is missing, <I haven't checked> then it was removed by a moderator, not by my hands. I could logically explain the why we don't need Six Young, but many others have tried to no avail. So, I just make light of the situation until it all passes in two months. 
Wolf
100% Texan
Brown comes out firing.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3689706.html
geeze sounds familliar
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3689706.html
geeze sounds familliar
From what I've read VY first test was a 16 and he is planning on re-testing.. for whatever its worth..
http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm
http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Long-Spurs-Texan said:Because it's satisying to read it from start to finish. The best part is watching all the gutless little Hyenas pile on. Even better watching them post their stupid little pictures & special avatars & signatures. Watching them edit, delete, & disappear? Priceless...
A) It's (the thread title) not been changed mainly casue we still do not know the truth. There are several stories floating around about VY, 6, the Wonderlic and how many times he took it.
B) as for people posting/editting and leaving...it's to be expected, this is a public MB after all. And it doesn't have to be because poeple are gutless. Nice name calling by the way, shows alot of maturity.
:brickwall :brickwall :brickwall at state of the board these days.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
The NFL says it wasn't a 6, never was a 6, and will never be a 6. What do they have to gain by covering up a low score. Nothing!! If anything you'd think that they would want the truth out about a low score as to keep a dumbass from becoming an instant multi-millionaire on thier dime.Hoth-Boy said:
Rumors are just that, Rumors, Until a reputible source (the NFfreakin'L) comes in and says otherwise.
And I'm OK with a 16. If 19-20 shows normal IQ, stacked on top is most atheletes studying for it and taking it about 10 times and only getting mid 20's out of a possible 50, VY not studying and getting a 16 is right in line with where most of us would think he'd score anyways. He's not the smartest kid on the block. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Bradshaw is kinda dumb too.
But it's one thing to be flat out dumb, and another to be not so smart but able to be a wizard at your profession. You ever tried to read a pre-scription written by your Dr, he/she probably would've failed a hand writing class if forced to take one right before getting their jobs as your Dr. What if someone told you that they had failed a class but refused to tell you what class, you'd scoff at the idea of them being your Dr., but if you knew it was only a hand writing course then you'd more than likely let it slide because it has nothing to do with why you chose them to be your Dr.
Paging Dr. Young, we need to stop the bleeding over at Reliant, can you get there stat.
chuckm
Veteran
Ok after having read and listened for the past 2 days about this, here's my take on what happened .....
1) Saturday he takes the test and scores very low .... 6 or whatever .... I heard on ESPN radio yesterday that when a player scores very low on the first go-round, the common practice is to allow them to re-take but the difference between this situation and the others is that the original grade is never published, leaked, ... whatever ...
2) Saturday/Sunday NFL combine people realize the leak occurred and start spinning .... graded wrong, improperly given, grade wasn't a 6, .....
3) Sunday he's re-tested and scores a 16
In a normal situation, we'd hear about the grade days later ... 16 .... no problem, next subject ....
anyway just my opinion but ultimately this whole thing is much ado about nothing .... if anything constructive comes out of this it'd be Young realizing he chose his advisors/management poorly and he'd upgrade ...
1) Saturday he takes the test and scores very low .... 6 or whatever .... I heard on ESPN radio yesterday that when a player scores very low on the first go-round, the common practice is to allow them to re-take but the difference between this situation and the others is that the original grade is never published, leaked, ... whatever ...
2) Saturday/Sunday NFL combine people realize the leak occurred and start spinning .... graded wrong, improperly given, grade wasn't a 6, .....
3) Sunday he's re-tested and scores a 16
In a normal situation, we'd hear about the grade days later ... 16 .... no problem, next subject ....
anyway just my opinion but ultimately this whole thing is much ado about nothing .... if anything constructive comes out of this it'd be Young realizing he chose his advisors/management poorly and he'd upgrade ...
Vinny
shiny happy fan
My take is even simpler. My opinion of VY stems from the football field. Before the Rose Bowl, during the Rose Bowl, and after the Rose Bowl....my opinion has been based on his play on the football field and really hasn't changed.
For a local kid who came out of a bad background, coming from some of our very own mean streets who turned his life around with sports instead of drugs and guns it makes me ashamed so many people here in town hold so much hatred for this young kid (sports radio, message boards etc...). It's amazing what people are saying about this kid out of pure mean spite and hatred from the heart (I'd like to see them call him names or insult him openly to his face...wouldn't happen). There has not been a single game played since the Rose Bowl but I see so many people lash out for various reasons....mostly out of hatred of some sort that has nothing to do with football. Most of it is spin and condescending subtle insults...but still its sad stuff and sad commentary about football fans.
For a local kid who came out of a bad background, coming from some of our very own mean streets who turned his life around with sports instead of drugs and guns it makes me ashamed so many people here in town hold so much hatred for this young kid (sports radio, message boards etc...). It's amazing what people are saying about this kid out of pure mean spite and hatred from the heart (I'd like to see them call him names or insult him openly to his face...wouldn't happen). There has not been a single game played since the Rose Bowl but I see so many people lash out for various reasons....mostly out of hatred of some sort that has nothing to do with football. Most of it is spin and condescending subtle insults...but still its sad stuff and sad commentary about football fans.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I know he is a VY homer but I think McClain explained it pretty well today with quotes to back it up. I've been saying all along that I'm not for drafting the guy but that I think people are being morons about him. He is a good kid who has improved and made a name for himself. He is a winner and has showed class. If you don't want to draft him, fine, we agree, but dragging his name through the mud isn't going to make your pick more appealing. Some team will be getting a good kid and a proven winner.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/3689706.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/3689706.html
Vinny said:
Vinny, I would characterize it as nothing but a fan backlash at the Pro Vince spin machine, and nothing personal directed at Vince. When you have this immense propaganda machine that's orchestrated by the McClain/Chronicle/610 triumphirate that has put on this "you must draft Vince or you're stupid" campaign, with fans coming out and saying that they won't buy season tickets anymore, or they won't be Texans fans anymore if they don't draft him . . . anyone who happens to disagree with it, again, is vilified for being either stupid, *****ic, or flat out unpatriotic to the good state of Texas.
You have campaigns, and then you have smear campaigns. That's just the way it works.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
It's all over Houston sports radio and all over message boards everywhere. Cutler gets pumped up for his positives coming out of Vandy, but Vince Young is being insulted repeatedly. There have been no games played since the Rose Bowl. I can't think of an explanation other than racism myself. Sad stuff.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Big B Texan Fan said:The NFL says it wasn't a 6, never was a 6, and will never be a 6. What do they have to gain by covering up a low score. Nothing!! If anything you'd think that they would want the truth out about a low score as to keep a dumbass from becoming an instant multi-millionaire on thier dime.
Rumors are just that, Rumors, Until a reputible source (the NFfreakin'L) comes in and says otherwise.
And I'm OK with a 16. If 19-20 shows normal IQ, stacked on top is most atheletes studying for it and taking it about 10 times and only getting mid 20's out of a possible 50, VY not studying and getting a 16 is right in line with where most of us would think he'd score anyways. He's not the smartest kid on the block. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Bradshaw is kinda dumb too.
But it's one thing to be flat out dumb, and another to be not so smart but able to be a wizard at your profession. You ever tried to read a pre-scription written by your Dr, he/she probably would've failed a hand writing class if forced to take one right before getting their jobs as your Dr. What if someone told you that they had failed a class but refused to tell you what class, you'd scoff at the idea of them being your Dr., but if you knew it was only a hand writing course then you'd more than likely let it slide because it has nothing to do with why you chose them to be your Dr.
Paging Dr. Young, we need to stop the bleeding over at Reliant, can you get there stat.
Nobody from an objective point of view is disputing the 6, although Clayton is saying that the first test was low (somewhere between 6-11) and VY retook it and got a 16, which is a perfectly exceptable score and a score that should not hurt his draft status. But as I've said before VY has made some horrible deciscions regarding his management team.
It's common knowledge that most agents have all forms of the Wonderlic and have their clients prepping for the test inthe weeks leading up to the combine, see Akli Smith scoring in teh mid 20s. With this in mind either 1) VY's agent didn't help his client prepare for the Wonderlic porperly or 2) VY blew off his first attempt at the test. My opnion is that it is a bit of both, poor management coupled with a bit of an "I can do anything and am so good I don't have to do what the rest of these guys do and I'll still go top 5" attitude. This is just a theory on my part and if VY does have a bit of an ego issue right now, can we really blame him? Just look at his life since the Rose Bowl, and tell me if his ego hasn't been storked by hundreds. Maybe this was a bit of a wake up call that will serve VY to have a gret pro day.
As for VY as a pro, I think he needs alot of work before starting in the NFL; and I still have serious doubts about his ability to run and function an NFL offense. Several factors lead to this: Ran teh spread offense, lack of a flatter trajectory on out routes, little expierence operating under center, will not be able to run as freely in the pors, no "zone option read" in the NFL, Thorwing motion and release point/angle, etc etc. What VY does have going for him is incredible heart, toughness, speed, size (somewhat negated by his throwing motion) and the killer instinct neccesary tobe a champion.
But I still want Bush first, then Ferguson, then VY. Just my opinion.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Vinny said:
Wasn't Marino the last QB taken in the first round of his draft year. What's to say that his Wonderlic score didn't contribute to this.
I think the black QB think is played out and has been for awhile. See; Moon, McNiar, McNabb, Byron Sandwhich and those you will be enteringthe NFlin the coming years Jacobs, the QB at Ohio State and several other I'm forgetting currently.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
Unpatriotic to the good state of Texas is drafting another kid from CA with your second #1 overall selection in the NFL draft. Let's just go ahead and move the team to LA now.Marcus said:or flat out unpatriotic to the good state of Texas.
And I don't think Vinny meant out right racism as far the color of VY skin goes, more along the lines jealousy with a pinch of color. Although I'm probably wrong and it is more about color than we think. Not to mention there ae people who want to tear people down before they are given a chance to succeed so they can say "See, I told you so".
If it had been reported from the git-go that he had a 16 to begin with, there would be no story. But instead the 16 was more like a retraction to the false 6.
I think it's more of the dark side of the news media than anything else. They are vultures. You show em a piece of juicy red meat, they are going to pick at it.
I think it's more of the dark side of the news media than anything else. They are vultures. You show em a piece of juicy red meat, they are going to pick at it.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Vinny said:
BTW, they are now saying that Cutler's workout wasn't all that and that he didn't move up at all. As Clayton said, no WOW factor. I am not going to comment on the black QB thing but I see a little of that here. McNair has like a 13 and was a top pick and a great QB early. But VY haters won't ever see that.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I don't know what you mean by played out. Moon caught hell here as a black QB and I heard N this and N that back then. I remember it. McNabb was boo'ed lustilly by the Philly crowd when he was picked. I also remember a faction of people who thought McNair was too dumb to be our QB here in Houston. All black QB'sHoth-Boy said:
Hoth-Boy said:
Clayton did say there was a lot of goofing off in that test group. We will never know what truly went down with that test. I have heard the rumor was widespread, but PFT broke the story, and I imagine we never would have heard the 6 number or seen this fiasco without them (undoubtedly, there would have been rumblings). One need only look at their VY comics and photoshopping to see they don't seem to be overly concerned with professionalism or responsibility.
Concerning the Pro-Day... Vince has always seemed to feed off of the competition and perceived slights dealt to him. Whether or not VY needed one, this was certainly a wake-up call to the vultures in the media and more conservative NFL folks who have tons of doubts about his game.
They can say all the things they want to about VY on paper, but he always seems to acquit himself quite well with his play.
chuckm
Veteran
In today's world, it's difficult to criticize or disagree with a minority without it being labeled as "rascism", "closet rascism", "having a pinch of color" or whatever ...
For me, the paramount issue concerning Young is his ability to translate his awesome physical gifts to the NFL. For the most part his college offense was very basic and for good reason. Why try to outsmart people when you have such a weapon? That would be ludicrous.... but in the NFL it won't be so easy. So his cognitive and decision-making skills must be scrutinized before investing millions. The events of the past few days, true or false, do nothing to help that. We can debate the Wonderlic as "irrelevent" , "culturally-basied", ..... but you can bet that if he had scored a 30, NFL GMs, talk radio, message boards, fans in general would be crowing it .... and for good reason
For me, the paramount issue concerning Young is his ability to translate his awesome physical gifts to the NFL. For the most part his college offense was very basic and for good reason. Why try to outsmart people when you have such a weapon? That would be ludicrous.... but in the NFL it won't be so easy. So his cognitive and decision-making skills must be scrutinized before investing millions. The events of the past few days, true or false, do nothing to help that. We can debate the Wonderlic as "irrelevent" , "culturally-basied", ..... but you can bet that if he had scored a 30, NFL GMs, talk radio, message boards, fans in general would be crowing it .... and for good reason
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
texan279 said:
Except for I heard he didn't impress at all and there was nothing special to his workout.
texan279
Hall of Fame
HoustonFrog said:
Like I said it's what I heard as well, not what I saw. I did read this on www.kffl.com though...
NCAA | Cutler impressive
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:17:42 -0800
Harvey Fialkov, of the Sun-Sentinel, reports Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler impressed in his NFL Combine workout, gunning passes around the field and bench-pressing 225 pounds 23 times.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NCAA | Mayock feels Cutler is top quarterback in draft
Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:45:21 -0800
Mike Mayock, of the NFL Network, said he feels Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler is the top quarterback in the 2006 Draft. He believes Cutler has a better arm and a quicker release than either USC QB Matt Leinart or Texas QB Vince Young. Maycock said, "Big arm. I think he helped himself and I truly believe he can go anywhere from No. 3 to No. 9."
texan279
Hall of Fame
kbourda said:
Like I said, didn't see it for myself, only going on what I am reading/hearing, but as of yet I have not heard/read anything negative about Cutler's performance at the combine. I also read Sean Payton has said behind closed doors that he thinks Cutler could be the next Brett Favre.