The Dude Abides
Veteran
infantrycak said:
He is still in high school. Maybe they haven't gotten to that chapter yet.
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Rumor: VY scores a 6
- Thread starter DFAN
- Start date
He is still in high school. Maybe they haven't gotten to that chapter yet.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
I hope you noticed that I spelled it that way for a reason.infantrycak said:
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
infantrycak said:
I'm pretty sure it was a joke, but hell I know how to spell, honest I do, but my typing skills suck. See several of my posts laced with "teh"s. Damn quick left hand.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
kbourda said:
Shssssh--while "they" (the anonymous MB community) are looking at misspell, "they" may learn how to spell their own colloquialism. It was supposed to be a subtle thing--but thanks "y'all" for busting me out.
The Dude Abides
Veteran
he scored a 16. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3687374.html
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
I'm sorry to see a young man in VY's situation. I know some of you have commented on UT and perhaps what goes on. I thought I would throw something out there for those who criticize Fresno State. I'm not certain how many of you are aware of the fact that the Special Teams Coach at Fresno State is the father of the Academic Game Plan. All of the foot ball players are required to go through the program and are watched with a passion. As a result Fresno State's football players rank 4th on the West Coast as far as academic achievent is concerned. That is an NCAA statistic. I believe SC is rated 14th. This program is being touted by major universities such as Princton, Yale and others. It is really becoming an eye opener across the nation. Fresno has actually been able to pick up players, because of what they are doing to assist players in achieving their goals in school. This program is being used in the high schools to work with at risk students. Some of you might want to do some research on this program, particularly if you are in education.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The Dude Abides said:
Something is odd with that story. Set aside the particular player involved as this isn't a comment about him at all. McClain's surmising just doesn't fly. Maybe it was a problem with the amount of time given? What are the odds player X received the test in a room by himself with a different timekeeper?--didn't happen--he was in a room with a bunch of people and you don't hear about a bunch of retests. Graded it with the wrong answer key? BS. The answer to that is regrading the test with the right key, not giving the test again. So what is the real reason the 6 is "false" because neither of those reasons is flying?
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I believe the VY haters are just as bad as the VY lovers now. Anything to tear a kid down. Grow up about it. It isn't like it is recess anymore. To me it reeks of p' envy everytime I see it. You don't know the kid so stop trying to degrade him just because you don't want to take him. I don't want to take him either but I wish him well. He didn't do anything wrong to me or anyone else. I hope some of you never coach any kid I haves sports team. Maybe you can break him down at age 6 because some other parent doesn't like the way he runs.
Dr. Toro said:
Well, that's exactly what I've been saying....
1. We don't need another running back
2. To get all that explosiveness, you'll have to run a different offensive system than the Texans have been using( the system our players were selected for) and a different system than what Kubiak has been using.
It's not a knock on Bush....... If a team that is set up to use a player like Bush wants him bad enough to trade for him, then that's fine. If we pass on Reggie, N.O. will, and so will Tennesee. The Jets may pass on him too, if they decide to go with D'brick. The only team I see that would absolutely not pass, I think is Arizona at #10.
It's just easier for me to understand taking a QB like Vince Young in the top 5, because their are so many successful similar QBs int he league right now. McNair, McNabb, Dante, & even Vick..... For any team.... but then when you have teams like NYJ... who can't seem to keep their guy healthy & Oakland, who's QB has been more successful than some, but many are getting tired of waiting on.... I can see Vince easily going in the top 6. And when you talk about evaluating our QB, if the best thing you can say, is that we haven't had a fair evaluation yet........ I understand we don't need a QB, but we need more speed, and RBs on our team even less.
If Vince wasn't in this year's draft, I'd be draft down all the way.... and use that extra pick to get someone like Cutler, or Reggie McNeal. But Vince is in the Draft.....
6
chuckm
Veteran
profootballtalk.com certainly operates in the gray areas but then again I'd venture a guess that a majority of us read it occasionally .... you gotta admit that this thing has some appearance of impropriety ... was Young the only one affected? and was he the only one that took it again the next day?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Vinny said:
Not alleging any conspiracy or anything. Only that McClain's explanation doesn't make sense. Like I said, this has nothing to do with VY. There are just some basic facts here that aren't jiving. Some sources have the original test being rescored, some have VY taking the test a 2nd time. That's a pretty basic fact--which one was it? McClain says he retook the test. But you don't retake a test because the wrong answer key was used. I'd just like to know what the real story is.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Geez, If you can't grasp that this isn't a great gossip piece I can't help you....they live to knock people in the NFL and around the league...they "leak" rumors every year and Young isn't Johnny Einstein. It's just natural. These aren't the guys reporting real news you know....they like to report "Chitown Mole" commentary.chuckm said:
And while several reporters said they heard the score was correct and that Young had not done any pre-test preparation for the exam before the Combine, NFL spokesman Steve Alic said the rumors are inaccurate.
I can tell you absolutely that the score that has been reported on the Internet is inaccurate, Alic said. I spoke to the person who graded the test, and he assured me that that number was not correct.
http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=7&screen=news&news_id=48119
It's a big conspiracy to let VY off easy, right haters?
I can tell you absolutely that the score that has been reported on the Internet is inaccurate, Alic said. I spoke to the person who graded the test, and he assured me that that number was not correct.
http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=7&screen=news&news_id=48119
It's a big conspiracy to let VY off easy, right haters?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I'll come clean and tell you guys that privately I questioned Young's intelligence, but always compared him to Steve McNair in that regard. Many of you who read this have talked to me privately and this is nothing new from me. I have a ton of contacts and this is what many expressed to me, but I have come away with the conclusion that while he isn't going to ever build a bridge, he is plenty smart enough to figure out a hot blitz. If VY had some arrests or some funky friends it would have been the piss test leak....but since he is clean, the hate mongers and gossip pushers will go after his IQ.....just predictable.chuckm said:
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
This is still funny, and I guess I shouldn't be amazed that we already have 200+ replies in less than three days time.
If Vince really did get a 6, then okay, he is probably a colossal moron. On the other hand, maybe he just has a learning disability, maybe he just didn't try, or maybe someone with an agenda "leaked" the wrong score.
So meanwhile the anti-Vincers are screaming for blood and the pro-Vincers circle the wagons to protect their boy from this latest "vicious" "gossip-mongering."
The guy won the Rose Bowl before he took this test, played all of those college games that everyone is basing all their opinions on before he took the test, and was the same "leader" or what have you, all before he took the test. The "IQ" test, such as it is, is merely one of many indicators to a player's abilities, and Vince Young being able to distinguish shapes doesn't equate to Vince Young being able to make the right throw, and on that same token, even if he can't distinguish between shapes, he might well still be able to make the right throw. Either way, he's the exact same player he was before he took this test, and I don't see how it really adds or takes anything away from both his abilities and the question marks surrounding them previously.
Yeesh; get off of it. It's an interesting news bit, but everyone is acting like either:
(a) the score was fixed and is part of a large scale conspiracy by anti-Longhorns everywhere to drop Vince's draft stock, or
(b) Clearly Vince isn't the quarterback everyone thought he was, and his draft stock is dropping faster than Enron.
Vince will still be a high draft pick, he still will not be drafted a Texan, and he still has every reason to look forward to a successful NFL career. As someone said it, he's not going to be building a bridge any time soon, but it's not as if scoring low on some arbitrary intelligence tests diminishes what he has already done as a player, which is infinitely more valuable in ascertaining what he will do in the NFL.
If Vince really did get a 6, then okay, he is probably a colossal moron. On the other hand, maybe he just has a learning disability, maybe he just didn't try, or maybe someone with an agenda "leaked" the wrong score.
So meanwhile the anti-Vincers are screaming for blood and the pro-Vincers circle the wagons to protect their boy from this latest "vicious" "gossip-mongering."
The guy won the Rose Bowl before he took this test, played all of those college games that everyone is basing all their opinions on before he took the test, and was the same "leader" or what have you, all before he took the test. The "IQ" test, such as it is, is merely one of many indicators to a player's abilities, and Vince Young being able to distinguish shapes doesn't equate to Vince Young being able to make the right throw, and on that same token, even if he can't distinguish between shapes, he might well still be able to make the right throw. Either way, he's the exact same player he was before he took this test, and I don't see how it really adds or takes anything away from both his abilities and the question marks surrounding them previously.
Yeesh; get off of it. It's an interesting news bit, but everyone is acting like either:
(a) the score was fixed and is part of a large scale conspiracy by anti-Longhorns everywhere to drop Vince's draft stock, or
(b) Clearly Vince isn't the quarterback everyone thought he was, and his draft stock is dropping faster than Enron.
Vince will still be a high draft pick, he still will not be drafted a Texan, and he still has every reason to look forward to a successful NFL career. As someone said it, he's not going to be building a bridge any time soon, but it's not as if scoring low on some arbitrary intelligence tests diminishes what he has already done as a player, which is infinitely more valuable in ascertaining what he will do in the NFL.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Vinny said:
Could not agree more and as I said the page before, it is crazy that people are attacking a good kid because they don't want to take him. Just tell me who you'd like to take and why he is better, don't make the other person into a villain.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
John Clayton just reported on ESPN raio that VY get something in the mid-teens, say around a 16. He scored this on hissecond taking of the test, and on the first he did indeed score a 6. He also said soemthing that raises evenmore questions about VY management team.
Clayotn said that most agents now have all forms of the test, and they have their guys taking the test twice a day leading up to the combine. So in essence the Wonderlic has become open book; and with all that if VY got a 6 on his first taking and a 16 on his second either he isn't trying hard enough or his agent is screwing him over.
Now with all that being said I'm happy for Vince that he did indeed score a 16, as it assures his stock will not be hurt be the Wonderlic. I still don't think he will be coming here though.
Clayotn said that most agents now have all forms of the test, and they have their guys taking the test twice a day leading up to the combine. So in essence the Wonderlic has become open book; and with all that if VY got a 6 on his first taking and a 16 on his second either he isn't trying hard enough or his agent is screwing him over.
Now with all that being said I'm happy for Vince that he did indeed score a 16, as it assures his stock will not be hurt be the Wonderlic. I still don't think he will be coming here though.
TheOgre
All Pro
I wouldn't be concerned if Vince scored something like a 13, but a 6 is scary. From what I have heard, the Wonderlic is used to look for extremely low scores. I don't think 13 is an extremely low score, but a 6 certainly is.
That said, I would be really stunned if Vince scored a 6. While he isn't a Dean's list student, he doesn't strike me a total moron either.
That said, I would be really stunned if Vince scored a 6. While he isn't a Dean's list student, he doesn't strike me a total moron either.
jerek said:
agreed, but we shouldn't lump all Vince supporters in the same group, or all the Carr hater's for that matter.
jerek said:
Some of these guys embarass me....... that's all I'm saying.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
chuckm said:
According to Clayton test #1 = 6 and he, which is allowed and most players tend to, retook it and got around a 16. Clayton also said that the first test was given ina group setting and there was a lot of goofing off going on, which he said isn't that uncommon, and this might have contributed to the score of 6. But yes John Clayton did say that VY got a 6 on his first taking of the Wonderlic.
I'm starting to doubt if we will ever know what he really got or if he how many times he took the test.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Do I want or think Vince could help me out with my portofolio, give me a root canal or build a bomb? No. But do I think he can lead a team to a championship? Yes I do.
We had a team for the last four years that did not have the confidence in our offense to allow our QB to run more than 1 audible. I will take football smarts over book smarts on the football field anyday.
This one is for you Infantry - I have played, recruited, scouted, coached and represented players that were not all there or lacked focus academically, but were very intelligent once they hit the court. It may be difficult for people to understand this that never were involved with team sports above HS.
VY has showed that he can lead and perform for a team at a high level and he did this with a possible 6 on the test. Imagine what he could do if he got a 16. There is a fine line between clever and stupid.
We had a team for the last four years that did not have the confidence in our offense to allow our QB to run more than 1 audible. I will take football smarts over book smarts on the football field anyday.
This one is for you Infantry - I have played, recruited, scouted, coached and represented players that were not all there or lacked focus academically, but were very intelligent once they hit the court. It may be difficult for people to understand this that never were involved with team sports above HS.
VY has showed that he can lead and perform for a team at a high level and he did this with a possible 6 on the test. Imagine what he could do if he got a 16. There is a fine line between clever and stupid.
Frills
Waterboy
The fact remains UT had to switch to the spread offense cause VY couldn't stop throwing INTs when it was a pro-style. He didn't have to adjust it due to physical ability...6 or 16, it doesn't matter.
Football smarts are NOT take snap look downfield 2 secs, take off since noone can catch you. In the NFL he will be hit/caught/punished.
Done with the subject till may
Football smarts are NOT take snap look downfield 2 secs, take off since noone can catch you. In the NFL he will be hit/caught/punished.
Done with the subject till may
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Frills said:
I really think that is a huge simplification of what UT's offense consisted of. Almost all the coaches and his teammates said his decision making was huge for them. I'm not getting the obsession with beating this guy down. If you don't want to draft him, fine but people are crossing the line of making up facts now. I don't want to take him but I recognize the skills.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
jerek said:
Yup:brickwall
Huge
All Pro
Yeah, cause Major Applewhite (collegiate offensive coordinator) and Chris Simms (NFL starting QB) had no problems with not throwing INTs in that offense. Oh wait...Frills said:
Applewhite:
1998 - 11 INTs (273 attempts)
1999 - 9 INTs (427 attempts)
2000 - 7 INTs (279 attempts)
Simms:
1998 - 1 INT (36 attempts)
1999 - 7 INTs (117 attempts)
2000 - 11 INTs (362 attempts)
2001 - 12 INTs (396 attempts)
The one year Vince Young ran that offense he was a redshirt freshman. He had 7 INTs in 143 attempts. That's a better rate than Applewhite's and Simms' sophmore seasons in the same offense.
Apparently this change in offenses came after the Oklahoma game. After being put in a "simplified spread" offense, Vince threw 4 TDs to 9 INTs to finish out the '04 season. In the 4 games leading up to the Oklahoma game (before the offense was changed and it was still "pro-style"), Vince had 8 TDs to 2 INTs.
In other words, Vince's numbers as a redshirt freshman and sophmore looked like this while running the pro-style offense at Texas:
135 of 224 (60.3%), 1,808 yards, 14 TDs, 9 INTs
They didn't "have" to switch because Vince couldn't run the other offense. They made the switch because that offense wasn't taking advantage of Young's abilities...not his lack of abilities. And after losing one game (right before the offense was changed) in the last two years, who would be dumb enough to argue with the results?
Probably a good thing you're done with the subject.
Huge said:
Yeah, anybody with a recollection of Texas football in the Mack Brown era knows that the "Pro style" offense run before the option spread was a disaster. Google "Fire Greg Davis" and you'll see what I am talking about. Those Simms teams had sooo much offensive talent (4 top 10 NFL picks and 2 more NFL starters) and really underperformed. There wasn't much vertical passing in that offense. They threw WR screens constantly.
Huge
All Pro
Yeah, I'm real familiar with Davis' history.Dr. Toro said:
So was it the system or the QBs?
And if it was Young who struggled, then it would make sense that Texas would revert back to the pro-style offense now that Young is gone...right? Nope, not the case. The spread will still be in place come September.
TreWardTxn
Waterboy
If you ask me, the only major difference passing-wise between what Young ran and what Simms ran was that the coaching staff utlized the shotgun formation and split backs to take advantage of Young's ability to run the ball, that's it. They ran the same passing plays, just that Simms would take a 3 step drop from center and telegraph the ball to a well-positioned linebacker. If anything, the shotgun portion of the offense affected the running game more than the passing game, because they started to use many more delays, and draws to make defenders think rather than react. There was less power running this year with Benson gone, again, mainly affecting the run game, but I don't believe there was any major difference in the formation and routes of receivers in the passing game.
So to answer, it seems apparent to me that Young was able to take the fundamental UT passing game and elevate it to prominent status, in large part because his ability to run was so well respected. There will be variations in UT's offense over the next few years based upon what type of QB and RB personnel they have, but the QB's will be running the same fundamental passing system..
So to answer, it seems apparent to me that Young was able to take the fundamental UT passing game and elevate it to prominent status, in large part because his ability to run was so well respected. There will be variations in UT's offense over the next few years based upon what type of QB and RB personnel they have, but the QB's will be running the same fundamental passing system..
Haven't read the whole thread so don't know whats been said in other posts but you don't necessarily need a boy genius to lead a team to the Super Bowl but getting a 6 on the test!??!?! Sheesh...
I wouldn't put too many stock into it. I mean c'mon, Alex Smith, scored a 40...and look where that guy is. He has bust written all over him.
I wouldn't put too many stock into it. I mean c'mon, Alex Smith, scored a 40...and look where that guy is. He has bust written all over him.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
c5demon said:
He downgraded it IF he got a 6. He said that a person with a 6 shouldn't be allowed to operate machinery and probably just walks around with a helmet on.
Wait I thought he did do that against the USC def....
So if VY got a 6 and tore up the USC def, then this just cements my argument that the USC def was a travesty, disregarding anything else to the contrary.
I mean the collective Wonderlic score of the USC def must be 2 or 2.5
So if VY got a 6 and tore up the USC def, then this just cements my argument that the USC def was a travesty, disregarding anything else to the contrary.
I mean the collective Wonderlic score of the USC def must be 2 or 2.5