Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Rebuilding this team

welsh texan

All Pro
I don't believe anyone is ever untouchable, but it probably does mean it will take a lot for the Texans to trade him. So a 2nd round pick probably isn't enough to acquire Watt.
It’s the easy way to shed cap, I’m ok with the Texans trying to up the price, but I can’t believe for a second that they aren’t interested in getting him off the books.
He offers 8 sacks a season if he manages to stay healthy. We’d be better to get Blacklock 9 starts to close out the season and let him learn on the job. Gives us chance to offload Mercilus, Cunningham or Cobb with the money saved, and that begins to open up their FA options next year.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Man that was all over 610 and 790 as well.
Repeating what McClain said and others repeated. We want Texans to be better negotiators..so they should just show their cards to all at table? That's not way I was taught to negotiate. We don't have to do anything. This season we will be better without trades. Yeah, I want good picks but I'm glad there has not been a fire sale as some posted.

Some of us think we should know everything behind the scenes. Ask me no question and I'll tell you no lie seems good motto for Texans.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Repeating what McClain said and others repeated. We want Texans to be better negotiators..so they should just show their cards to all at table? That's not way I was taught to negotiate. We don't have to do anything. This season we will be better without trades. Yeah, I want good picks but I'm glad there has not been a fire sale as some posted.

Some of us think we should know everything behind the scenes. Ask me no question and I'll tell you no lie seems good motto for Texans.
I have no idea who you're responding to, but it (your response/post) has nothing to do with the post you quoted.
:brando:
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I have no idea who you're responding to, but it (your response/post) has nothing to do with the post you quoted.
:brando:
Well sip some caffine and read a few posts before mine that you question. The flow above was about an article saying four guys off limits including Watt. Powda and Texansballer74 went back and forth on JJ being untouchable. Post 452 Powda "you quoted random journalists with 4th or 5th hand info..those on said list are not set in concrete".
Post 457 Powda "not like (Texans) haven't lied to us..."

I quoted TB74 as he said the topic of four players being untouchable was on two radio stations. I could have quoted him or Powda.
My post also addressed negotiating and whether fans should know what team is doing. Four have liked my thread indicating at least some knew what I was saying.

Shake it off 76. Get back into the game.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well sip some caffine and read a few posts before mine that you question. The flow above was about an article saying four guys off limits including Watt. Powda and Texansballer74 went back and forth on JJ being untouchable. Post 452 Powda "you quoted random journalists with 4th or 5th hand info..those on said list are not set in concrete".
Post 457 Powda "not like (Texans) haven't lied to us..."

I quoted TB74 as he said the topic of four players being untouchable was on two radio stations. I could have quoted him or Powda.
My post also addressed negotiating and whether fans should know what team is doing. Four have liked my thread indicating at least some knew what I was saying.

Shake it off 76. Get back into the game.
You shouldn't have to post this.

Let him figure things out for himself.

I'm still trying to figure out what his point is in this thread. His post gave us no thoughts on the rebuilding of this team.
 
Last edited:

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Well sip some caffine and read a few posts before mine that you question. The flow above was about an article saying four guys off limits including Watt. Powda and Texansballer74 went back and forth on JJ being untouchable. Post 452 Powda "you quoted random journalists with 4th or 5th hand info..those on said list are not set in concrete".
Post 457 Powda "not like (Texans) haven't lied to us..."

I quoted TB74 as he said the topic of four players being untouchable was on two radio stations. I could have quoted him or Powda.
My post also addressed negotiating and whether fans should know what team is doing. Four have liked my thread indicating at least some knew what I was saying.

Shake it off 76. Get back into the game.
Haha, I was thinking of something else.
My bad.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So did AJ, where did it get the Texans? Fact is where did Megatron's talents get the Lions? Paying Wr's is a recepie for failure.
You could say the same about pass rushers, too. I mean, JJ couldn't stop a 2-14 season from happening in his prime.

I think it goes back to the team sport concept. Individually, great players can only do so much, even at QB. If a franchise fails to put other good players & good role players around great talent and good coaching, the team usually fails.

Jerry Rice got paid. He's got four rings. But he also had a HoF QB, great offensive players, great defense, and a HoF coaching staff. Same for Michael Irvin, Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Hines Ward, etc.

Being a great player on a crappy franchise is the inherent problem with the absolute statement rhetoric.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You could say the same about pass rushers, too. I mean, JJ couldn't stop a 2-14 season from happening in his prime.

I think it goes back to the team sport concept. Individually, great players can only do so much, even at QB. If a franchise fails to put other good players & good role players around great talent and good coaching, the team usually fails.

Jerry Rice got paid. He's got four rings. But he also had a HoF QB, great offensive players, great defense, and a HoF coaching staff. Same for Michael Irvin, Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Hines Ward, etc.

Being a great player on a crappy franchise is the inherent problem with the absolute statement rhetoric.
It's all about cap allocation for me. Top paid we teams usually aren't contenders. Teams that pay pass rushers are usually contenders. The examples you give are mostly pre cap times.
 

banned1976

All Pro
It’s starting to look like the Texans will be standing with who they have. I just don’t believe the future of this franchise is Stills, Cooks, or Cobb. But I also understand they weren’t going to net much in the way of picks. Watt was the big fish in a small pond of talent here but evidently the compensation wasn’t there and/or the financials got in the way.

The Texans are going the long route to redeeming themselves after one big mistake after another led them to bottom of the league in many categories, including: future cap space, future draft picks, defensive rankings, wins...
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It’s starting to look like the Texans will be standing with who they have. I just don’t believe the future of this franchise is Stills, Cooks, or Cobb. But I also understand they weren’t going to net much in the way of picks. Watt was the big fish in a small pond of talent here but evidently the compensation wasn’t there and/or the financials got in the way.

The Texans are going the long route to redeeming themselves after one big mistake after another led them to bottom of the league in many categories, including: future cap space, future draft picks, defensive rankings, wins...
On the bright side, it can only get better.






Eventually.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
[/QUOTE]
You shouldn't have to post this.

Let him figure thing out for himself.

I'm still trying to figure out what his point is in this thread. His post gave us no thoughts on the rebuilding of this team.
Show some kindness. Everything does not have to be 'attack mode'.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Show some kindness. Everything does not have to be 'attack mode'.
I was being kind.
[/QUOTE]
And that you set that bar so low is my point. O'Brien is gone; Watson is here with contract as is; the defense and the offense are not different and we all know why. Beating Trigger doesn't make Roy Rogers feel better or his horse run faster.
I don't have to respond to every post even if I think that poster is attacking me. Sometimes a post is just stupid without me saying so.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I was being kind.
And that you set that bar so low is my point. O'Brien is gone; Watson is here with contract as is; the defense and the offense are not different and we all know why. Beating Trigger doesn't make Roy Rogers feel better or his horse run faster.
I don't have to respond to every post even if I think that poster is attacking me. Sometimes a post is just stupid without me saying so.
[/QUOTE]

Liked for the Trigger/Roy reference.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Have you actually checked this?
I don't recall the Patriots paying their pass rushers much.
During their run (which finally appears to be over) they didn't pay anyone much outside of Brady .... Just about everyone else was a moving part.

They didn't pay guys mega bucks contracts - They had a bunch of guys on middle of the road contracts and would shuffle them out before their value went south.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
You may be onto something there ....

AJ never sniffed one
Megatron didn't either
Randy Moss was oh so close to perfection 18-1 and never won a ring.
AJ Green has been stuck in mediocrity or worse forever.
Julio Jones - got close too.
Larry Fitzgerald - Nodda.
DHop - Nodda.
What about Colts v Bears in Superbowl? Who was Peyton throwing too?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
What about Colts v Bears in Superbowl? Who was Peyton throwing too?
Reggie Wayne had an average salary of $830,000 between 2001-2005 and $6,583,333 between 2006 and 2011.

Marvin Harrison had an average salary of $9,571,429 between 2004-2010.


Neither contract "ground breaking" for the time or at the very top end of WR money.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
So did AJ, where did it get the Texans? Fact is where did Megatron's talents get the Lions? Paying Wr's is a recepie for failure.
I have Hopkins rated above Andre Johnson.. He was just a better overall receiver, especially in the red zone.

However it was none of their faults that their teams failed.. You just listed two of the worst damn managed teams in the NFL.. Hell even the Lions have their own ex Patriot to fire at season's end.
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I have Hopkins rated above Andre Johnson.. He was just a better overall receiver, especially in the red zone.

However it was none of their faults that their teams failed.. You just listed two of the worst damn managed teams in the NFL.. Hell even the Lions have their own ex Patriot to fire at season's end.
Good for you.

Hopkins is a great WR.

He's not in AJ's class though. Teams dont fear Hopkins like they feared AJ.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Good for you.

Hopkins is a great WR.

He's not in AJ's class though. Teams dont fear Hopkins like they feared AJ.
In Texans football history....as I mentioned in another post, AJ was 1A and Hopkins was 1B. These guys were both great while both facing their own hurdles. AJ could've had much better numbers and been even more feared had strudel-arm Schaub actually been able to hit AJ on the fly. Hopkins faced a litney of bad QB's before Watson arrived and he was great against some fairly ugly odds when facing double and triple teams.

Bring Watson and Hopkins to the Kubiak led Texans hey-day year(s) and I think they're a far different team......like more successful.
 

GanadoUHCoog

Waterboy
So the Texans did nothing to gain more picks. Oh wait got that 7th in 2022. By the time we will have a real chance to rebuild, Watson’s $40M cap hit will hamstringing our financial flexibility. The next couple years are going to be rough. If Watson gets hurt they will be unbearable.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
In Texans football history....as I mentioned in another post, AJ was 1A and Hopkins was 1B. These guys were both great while both facing their own hurdles. AJ could've had much better numbers and been even more feared had strudel-arm Schaub actually been able to hit AJ on the fly. Hopkins faced a litney of bad QB's before Watson arrived and he was great against some fairly ugly odds when facing double and triple teams.

Bring Watson and Hopkins to the Kubiak led Texans hey-day year(s) and I think they're a far different team......like more successful.
I give the edge to Hopkins only because of the below average quarterbacks he had to play with. Even though Matt had a noodle arm, he still put up really good numbers here.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Good for you.

Hopkins is a great WR.

He's not in AJ's class though. Teams dont fear Hopkins like they feared AJ.
You weren't paying attention then. He was feared plenty, maybe not on pure speed, but he was still feared and beat plenty off double teams. Probably the best body control and hands on a receiver that I've seen and his 50/50 catch rate was ridiculous.

Hopkins is the type of receiver who's production level is going to age really well as he gets older too, because his game isn't predicated on all out speed.

wish he was still on the team.. and if not, atleast get fair trade value in return. But then again, you rarely win trading future HOFers in their prime.. especially if you trade them for running backs, especially washed RBs.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Reggie Wayne had an average salary of $830,000 between 2001-2005 and $6,583,333 between 2006 and 2011.

Marvin Harrison had an average salary of $9,571,429 between 2004-2010.


Neither contract "ground breaking" for the time or at the very top end of WR money.
The Colts had 2 of the highest paid wr corps in football at the time. Not to mention they also had a high paid tight end.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
If some team offered a 2nd for Watt, they should trade him for that before the ink dried.
Nobody offered a 2nd for JJ. Watt is on pace for 7 sacks. Thats the same amount as Griffin who was just traded. Not only that, qb pressure is at his worse of career. Part of it could be teams are running the ball, none of the lbs or corners can hold up in pass game. Whatever the case, his salary and production doesn't match.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Nobody offered a 2nd for JJ. Watt is on pace for 7 sacks. Thats the same amount as Griffin who was just traded. Not only that, qb pressure is at his worse of career. Part of it could be teams are running the ball, none of the lbs or corners can hold up in pass game. Whatever the case, his salary and production doesn't match.
D.J. Reader did a lot for Watt the last couple of seasons. He handled the inside rushes.. God, not having the SPZ is killing me right now.. sorry.

We should atleast be allowed to have a election results thread somewhere for old time sakes, but I'll respect y'alls decision.
 
Last edited:

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
The Colts had 2 of the highest paid wr corps in football at the time. Not to mention they also had a high paid tight end.
That's moving the goal post a bit .....

The original discussion was about a superstar WR being paid top dollar.

Now you are talking about essentially 5 players.

Yes , the strength of that team , along with Manning's smarts and ability was the number of weapons they had .... They had an embarrassment of riches offensively in Manning , Harrison , Wayne , Addai and Clark.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
Nobody offered a 2nd for JJ. Watt is on pace for 7 sacks. Thats the same amount as Griffin who was just traded. Not only that, qb pressure is at his worse of career. Part of it could be teams are running the ball, none of the lbs or corners can hold up in pass game. Whatever the case, his salary and production doesn't match.
Exactly....I said IF someone offered that for Watt, they'd be stupid not to sign off on the deal.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You weren't paying attention then. He was feared plenty, maybe not on pure speed, but he was still feared and beat plenty off double teams. Probably the best body control and hands on a receiver that I've seen and his 50/50 catch rate was ridiculous.

Hopkins is the type of receiver who's production level is going to age really well as he gets older too, because his game isn't predicated on all out speed.

wish he was still on the team.. and if not, atleast get fair trade value in return. But then again, you rarely win trading future HOFers in their prime.. especially if you trade them for running backs, especially washed RBs.
I wish he hadn't been traded too.

We will see about how he holds up in the future.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So the Texans did nothing to gain more picks. Oh wait got that 7th in 2022. By the time we will have a real chance to rebuild, Watson’s $40M cap hit will hamstringing our financial flexibility. The next couple years are going to be rough. If Watson gets hurt they will be unbearable.
This is what I've been trying to say. By the time they are able to rebuild the DW4 contract will prevent the Texans from winning a SB.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
This is what I've been trying to say. By the time they are able to rebuild the DW4 contract will prevent the Texans from winning a SB.
I posted the numbers on both Watson and Mahomes contracts.....how will KC stay relevant when Mahomes money kicks in? Watson's contract has the potential for "real" wiggle room if needed. Mahomes has zero wiggle room and they didn't even have to include a "no trade" clause b/c no NFL team would ever trade for the backend of that contract.

2021 will need to be the season the Texans need to accept the blackeyes on the field and the dead money financially. Like I mentioned in an earlier post.....Texans might be wise to raid some PS's by acting like they have a special Rule 5 draft just for themselves. They can only hope that their new GM and his scouting team have a hail of an eye for talent and make the RD3 picks and later count by finding a hidden gem or two and some solid depth chart players. FA will not be a reality for this team in 21.
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I posted the numbers on both Watson and Mahomes contracts.....how will KC stay relevant when Mahomes money kicks in? Watson's contract has the potential for "real" wiggle room if needed. Mahomes has zero wiggle room and they didn't even have to include a "no trade" clause b/c no would ever trade for the backend of that contract.

2021 will need to be the season the Texans need to accept the blackeyes on the field and the dead money financially. Like I mentioned in an earlier post.....Texans might be wise to raid some PS's by acting like they have a special Rule 5 draft just for themselves. They can only hope that their new GM and his scouting team have a hail of an eye for talent and make the RD3 picks and later count by finding a hidden gem or two and some solid depth chart players. FA will not be a reality for this team in 21.
Mahomes probably won't win anymore championship's at that point. However if anybody can break the trend it's Mahomes.

You really think the 2nd part of your post is a recipe for success?
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Mahomes probably won't win anymore championship's at that point. However if anybody can break the trend it's Mahomes.

You really think the 2nd part of your post is a recipe for success?
Never stated it was a recipe for immediate success. However, it is a recipe for reality. It's also a recipe for trying to take an ugly step without burying one's self up to the neck in shite. Bear in mind.....there's going to be shite traps everywhere in 2021. Try to stock the coffers with young inexpensive players now while giving them a season on the field to be better prepared for their jobs in the future as decent inexpensive depth personnel. Could good coaching wind up polishing some of this talent into adequate NFL talent? Sure they could, so its going to be a ride of patience for 2-3 more seasons. Texans will begin their turnaround with the 2022 and 2023 draft(s) provided they hold onto their picks.

I don't think there was any chance to get any solid picks from the Texans garage sale. RD5 and RD6 picks were going to be the flavor of the day b/c every team is going to cherish their 2021 draft picks like no other draft before.....thank you C-19. The Texans are just absolutely snakebit when it comes to timing with the NFL Gods.
 
Last edited:

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This sounds like an excuse. Whose contract prevented the Texans from winning Super Bowls from 2002 to 2016 before DW4 even joined the team?
Regardless what one thinks about Watson, this team is more than 4 years away from winning a Super Bowl anyway. Arguing Watson's contract over the next four years is a non starter for me.
 


Top