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Rebuilding this team

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What about a RB, two guards, a center and a partridge in a pear tree? You actually think we can get 5 defensive starters in the off season or are you speaking about sometime in the future?
I would be happy if they came out of this draft with upgrades at S/ atleast 1 LB/RB/OG. This could happen even without a 1st/2nd rd picks.

Rd. 3 Jabril Cox LB LSU
Rd.4 Brian Robinson RB Alabama
Rd.4 Reed Blankenship S Middle Tennessee
Rd. 4 (Using rd 5 and 6 picks to move up Landon Dickerson OG/C Alabama
Rd. 6 Antwaan Simmons LB Mich St.
Rd. 7 B.J. Foster S Texas.

Couldn't fill all of the needs, but added 2 LB's that can run.

2 S one that's very instinctive and Foster who is very talented but has been injury prone until this yr but has talent.

2 Alabama players. I love Robinson, a big tough runner with good hands and can blitz pickup. No shame in getting beat out by Najee Harris.

Dickerson is a mammoth man that's very powerful. The type of guy that can come in and start early and improve the running game.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I would be happy if they came out of this draft with upgrades at S/ atleast 1 LB/RB/OG. This could happen even without a 1st/2nd rd picks.

Rd. 3 Jabril Cox LB LSU
Rd.4 Brian Robinson RB Alabama
Rd.4 Reed Blankenship S Middle Tennessee
Rd. 4 (Using rd 5 and 6 picks to move up Landon Dickerson OG/C Alabama
Rd. 6 Antwaan Simmons LB Mich St.
Rd. 7 B.J. Foster S Texas.

Couldn't fill all of the needs, but added 2 LB's that can run.

2 S one that's very instinctive and Foster who is very talented but has been injury prone until this yr but has talent.

2 Alabama players. I love Robinson, a big tough runner with good hands and can blitz pickup. No shame in getting beat out by Najee Harris.

Dickerson is a mammoth man that's very powerful. The type of guy that can come in and start early and improve the running game.
I like that draft. I am still concerned about wide receiver in 2021. However if Cook Cobb and Coulter end the year well, that is a good start. I'm hopeful for cheap one or two players in free agency. That remains to be seen.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I like that draft. I am still concerned about wide receiver in 2021. However if Cook Cobb and Coulter end the year well, that is a good start. I'm hopeful for cheap one or two players in free agency. That remains to be seen.
I would love to see your thoughts on some guys you hope the Texans can get in the draft.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I would love to see your thoughts on some guys you hope the Texans can get in the draft.
Still having hard time with watching games, not as much enthusiasm. Majors like Alabama, Georgia, Ohio Sate are interesting but before I wanted to find those 'possibles' dark horses. Perhaps will improve as season progresses. Only a hand full of us still post so not sure worth my time.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Still having hard time with watching games, not as much enthusiasm. Majors like Alabama, Georgia, Ohio Sate are interesting but before I wanted to find those 'possibles' dark horses. Perhaps will improve as season progresses. Only a hand full of us still post so not sure worth my time.
If you get a chance look at some of the players. I enjoy the back and forth with you.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
So if the right coaching comes in here and this team win 10+ and a deep run in the playoffs. Will your stance be the same? That’s if they keep the majority of these players.
Wait... but OB did make the playoffs and had them playing well...to start off. Then the bottom fell out. And he won 10 games. So, I think it would have to be 11+ to be fair
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So if the right coaching comes in here and this team win 10+ and a deep run in the playoffs. Will your stance be the same? That’s if they keep the majority of these players.
You're describing what BOB did last yr.

If they dont win 11 games and make the final 8 is next season a failure in your mind?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Sure there's several factors that play into bringing home the ultimate prize.

Being able to put a quality team around your QB is definitely one of them and you have to have money free to do that.
The magic number so far has been below 13.2% which , again was the very first year of the salary cap era - 1994.

They had to have money to spend on quality players around them.

Nope , its not the only thing but history shows its a starting point - That's why in this era of football the best chance most teams have to win it all is in their star QB's rookie deals , once they are playing in their second contracts , they tie up such large percentages of the cap that its just about impossible to put enough players around them.
I have clearly shown that you're completely wrong about teams not having enough cap space to put together a team with less than 87.7% of the cap space- excluding the starting QB's portion.

They did and had won the Lombardie Trophy. Latest one were the Chiefs.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
I like that draft. I am still concerned about wide receiver in 2021. However if Cook Cobb and Coulter end the year well, that is a good start. I'm hopeful for cheap one or two players in free agency. That remains to be seen.
I posted one similar to Steel with a WR. A 6' 3 or 4 WR (combine will say what he is) with speed...he is from a small school and not many wins but he seems sound. In the thread You are the new GM
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
I have clearly shown that you're completely wrong about teams not having enough cap space to put together a team with less than 87.7% of the cap space- excluding the starting QB's portion.

They did and had won the Lombardie Trophy. Latest one were the Chiefs.
Watson is making what 30 some mil a year? Most teams who do big deals stretch it out and either give a bunch up front or escalate towards the end. And also most very high paid QBs work with the team to get the money for players too. How often do you hear Brady, Rogers, Brees and so on "rework" their contact to free up cap room? It seems to be a yearly thing almost.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Watson is making what 30 some mil a year? Most teams who do big deals stretch it out and either give a bunch up front or escalate towards the end. And also most very high paid QBs work with the team to get the money for players too. How often do you hear Brady, Rogers, Brees and so on "rework" their contact to free up cap room? It seems to be a yearly thing almost.
Here's the contract details -


Yearly cap hits
2020 - $9,808,207
2021 - $15,940,000
2022 - $40,400,000
2023 - $42,400,000
2024 - $37,400,000
2025 - $32,000,000


As for "reworking contracts" they aren't ever "giving money back" they are just pushing money into future years and often digging the hole deeper with more guaranteed money on the back end of them.

This contract probably wouldn't look so bad if it weren't for Covid wrecking the economy , otherwise the cap is still rising by ~$10m on a yearly basis and in 22/23 the base cap would have been north of $250m which puts that $40m year at about 16% of the base cap and less of the adjusted cap.

The first two years are a real bargain price by NFL QB standards.

I think they were counting on things returning to normal and the cap continuing its upward trend .... the thing they failed to take into account was the losses from this season being spread over the next 4 , essentially the life of the contract. Those split losses equal about 11% of the current total cap in annual reductions.

That is why I would have waited until this offseason to give him the extension .... even if it was for the same figure , you could better structure it for the future success.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Here's the contract details -


Yearly cap hits
2020 - $9,808,207
2021 - $15,940,000
2022 - $40,400,000
2023 - $42,400,000
2024 - $37,400,000
2025 - $32,000,000


As for "reworking contracts" they aren't ever "giving money back" they are just pushing money into future years and often digging the hole deeper with more guaranteed money on the back end of them.

This contract probably wouldn't look so bad if it weren't for Covid wrecking the economy , otherwise the cap is still rising by ~$10m on a yearly basis and in 22/23 the base cap would have been north of $250m which puts that $40m year at about 16% of the base cap and less of the adjusted cap.

The first two years are a real bargain price by NFL QB standards.

I think they were counting on things returning to normal and the cap continuing its upward trend .... the thing they failed to take into account was the losses from this season being spread over the next 4 , essentially the life of the contract. Those split losses equal about 11% of the current total cap in annual reductions.

That is why I would have waited until this offseason to give him the extension .... even if it was for the same figure , you could better structure it for the future success.
The new contracts given to Mahomes (SB Winner) and Watson (Team Bottom Feeders) has set the tone for QB contracts going forward. The dilemma of cap impact facing both KC and Houston starting in 2022......will be the same dilemma facing other NFL team soon enough. I still don't think Watson demanded this type of contract......this was just another major duck-up by OB.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The new contracts given to Mahomes (SB Winner) and Watson (Team Bottom Feeders) has set the tone for QB contracts going forward. The dilemma of cap impact facing both KC and Houston starting in 2022......will be the same dilemma facing other NFL team soon enough. I still don't think Watson demanded this type of contract......this was just another major duck-up by OB.
The point is the McNair's should've waited until next yr when he would have a better idea of what the post Covid NFL world would look like. It's not shocking that the McNair's would screw this up. BTW, Cal negotiated DW4's contract not BOB.
 

banned1976

All Pro
The new contracts given to Mahomes (SB Winner) and Watson (Team Bottom Feeders) has set the tone for QB contracts going forward. The dilemma of cap impact facing both KC and Houston starting in 2022......will be the same dilemma facing other NFL team soon enough. I still don't think Watson demanded this type of contract......this was just another major duck-up by OB.
And Eastereggheadby.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
Here's the contract details -


Yearly cap hits
2020 - $9,808,207
2021 - $15,940,000
2022 - $40,400,000
2023 - $42,400,000
2024 - $37,400,000
2025 - $32,000,000


As for "reworking contracts" they aren't ever "giving money back" they are just pushing money into future years and often digging the hole deeper with more guaranteed money on the back end of them.

This contract probably wouldn't look so bad if it weren't for Covid wrecking the economy , otherwise the cap is still rising by ~$10m on a yearly basis and in 22/23 the base cap would have been north of $250m which puts that $40m year at about 16% of the base cap and less of the adjusted cap.

The first two years are a real bargain price by NFL QB standards.

I think they were counting on things returning to normal and the cap continuing its upward trend .... the thing they failed to take into account was the losses from this season being spread over the next 4 , essentially the life of the contract. Those split losses equal about 11% of the current total cap in annual reductions.

That is why I would have waited until this offseason to give him the extension .... even if it was for the same figure , you could better structure it for the future success.
Oh I know they are not giving up anything. But most of them extend the deal by say 3yrs and then it is a lower hit. And they seem to always be signing a new deal before the old one ends. My guess is that they are making most of the old deal on signing bonus money. I'm pretty sure Rogers and Brady have done it. I mean a new 150mil deal with 30mil bonus from the start, plus say 8mil the first year is 38mil. If the old deal was 80mil and they paid them 35mil, the 38 is almost the full amount of the first one. 35+38=73mil only 4mil off. I would not argue lol
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Well, the silver lining of the 2020 season.....the Texans are currently positioned in the 2021 NFL Draft at RD3-04-068.

I’m fine with competitive losses at this juncture. This positioning helps far more than 1 or 2 more victories.

Also, it is time to sit Watson for 2021 preservation purposes and let McCarron finish the season since he’s going to be a UFA at season’s end.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Walter has the Texans taking WR from Oklahoma at # 20 in the first round in 2022...so..there's that
Why? I see nothing from Hazelwood to show that he would be a first-round pick and why does Walter have us picking at number 20? I mean I will take that but...

More strange he has Indy with 1.2? I use Walter as a source but this is why few people take him seriously..
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
O’Brien left us in a terrible position cap wise and draft capital wise. who can we trade for picks and who gets cut after this year? I gotta believe QB is the only untouchable. Even “highest paid” LT can go for right price. Could we get a 2nd for Watt? Maybe a 3rd or 4th for cooks or fuller? Anyone else have any trade value? Reid for a 3rd? I’m fully onboard with tearing this thing down as soon as possible and to the maximum extent possible. Who has a lot of dead $ left? Basically everyone give me your fastest rebuild plan to real contention.
After what we have heard now. It seems Cal and Easterby are the reason for the hole we are in. OB is the scapegoat seeing he is not here. But ties to Easterby being responsible for Hopkins being traded and such... It's always the person that is NOT here who is easy to blame.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
After what we have heard now. It seems Cal and Easterby are the reason for the hole we are in. OB is the scapegoat seeing he is not here. But ties to Easterby being responsible for Hopkins being traded and such... It's always the person that is NOT here who is easy to blame.
If you were here when Hopkins was traded, when we traded for Tunsil, Cooks, Duke, Conley, you'd have known we were blaming BO'b, even though he was still here.

Even today, while I don't blame BO'b for trading Hopkins, I blame him for accepting a 2nd & David Johnson when Buffalo gave up a 1st, 5th, & 6th for a guy not even close to DeAndre Hopkins, or a third for Clowney.

Or I guess you're blaming Easterby for those decisions, to accept less than face value for our assets?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If you were here when Hopkins was traded, when we traded for Tunsil, Cooks, Duke, Conley, you'd have known we were blaming BO'b, even though he was still here.

Even today, while I don't blame BO'b for trading Hopkins, I blame him for accepting a 2nd & David Johnson when Buffalo gave up a 1st, 5th, & 6th for a guy not even close to DeAndre Hopkins, or a third for Clowney.

Or I guess you're blaming Easterby for those decisions, to accept less than face value for our assets?
Contract situations had everything to do with why they didn't get what your perceived value was. Diggs was happy with his contract. BTW, Diggs is leading the NFL in catches so I think the last part of your post is incorrect or your fandom has blinded you.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
If you were here when Hopkins was traded, when we traded for Tunsil, Cooks, Duke, Conley, you'd have known we were blaming BO'b, even though he was still here.

Even today, while I don't blame BO'b for trading Hopkins, I blame him for accepting a 2nd & David Johnson when Buffalo gave up a 1st, 5th, & 6th for a guy not even close to DeAndre Hopkins, or a third for Clowney.

Or I guess you're blaming Easterby for those decisions, to accept less than face value for our assets?
Easterby is involved with contrats as much as OB was after he was made GM. They have said that he was doing contact work for awhile. He helped do Watson's deal. So, you can put blame on him for anything since he has been here as much as you can on OB. As for Clowney...that was pure money. The FO didn't want to pay for an often injured player. They would have signed him for less or a short term deal with incentives for health. But he was set on JJ money or nothing. And Cal and the FO didn't want to risk it. Plus, he is not worth JJ money. He is a good player who is hurt 3+ games a year and is not elite.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Easterby is involved with contrats as much as OB was after he was made GM. They have said that he was doing contact work for awhile. He helped do Watson's deal. So, you can put blame on him for anything since he has been here as much as you can on OB. As for Clowney...that was pure money. The FO didn't want to pay for an often injured player. They would have signed him for less or a short term deal with incentives for health. But he was set on JJ money or nothing. And Cal and the FO didn't want to risk it. Plus, he is not worth JJ money. He is a good player who is hurt 3+ games a year and is not elite.
Follow the ball. You said:
OB is the scapegoat seeing he is not here.
my point was, we blamed BO’b when he was here.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
Follow the ball. You said:


my point was, we blamed BO’b when he was here.
My bad bro I misread your post. And yes we did. Now, we are finding out Easterby has been involved in a ton of stuff. Contacts, player schedule (why I don't know), strength and conditioning and even nutrition... I can honestly say I don't know what he has to do with any of them. I can see helping with contact stuff to a point. Past that, it's the coaching staff that should be doing it. Maybe even a secretary for scheduling. They send an email to the players after the HC decides what is going on that week and day.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Well, the silver lining of the 2020 season.....the Texans are currently positioned in the 2021 NFL Draft at RD3-04-068.

I’m fine with competitive losses at this juncture. This positioning helps far more than 1 or 2 more victories.

Also, it is time to sit Watson for 2021 preservation purposes and let McCarron finish the season since he’s going to be a UFA at season’s end.

I'd rather they win these last two .... no competitive losses for me. Losses help the Dolphins more than the Texans. I don't want to help them build a team that's a contender for several years at our expense while we move up 2 spots in the 3rd round. Ugh.

OB made two of the five worst trades in NFL history before he left us.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I'd rather they win these last two .... no competitive losses for me. Losses help the Dolphins more than the Texans. I don't want to help them build a team that's a contender for several years at our expense while we move up 2 spots in the 3rd round. Ugh.

OB made two of the five worst trades in NFL history before he left us.
Dolphins have already made a fairly big leap so I don't think the location of the Texans picks will make that big of a difference unless the Texans had a deep playoff run in them. Texans don't have a deep playoff run in them so the Dolphins were going to have 4 picks in the first two rounds regardless and two of them were going to be well placed no matter what.

Possibly having the 4th pick from RD3 to RD7 will help the Texans irregardless.....provided the McNair's hire some folks who can do something with those picks. I'll take picking 4, 5, or 6 in RD3 b/c the team is going to need every opportunity to find good young players in the 2021 NFL Draft.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Dolphins have already made a fairly big leap so I don't think the location of the Texans picks will make that big of a difference unless the Texans had a deep playoff run in them. Texans don't have a deep playoff run in them so the Dolphins were going to have 4 picks in the first two rounds regardless and two of them were going to be well placed no matter what.

Possibly having the 4th pick from RD3 to RD7 will help the Texans irregardless.....provided the McNair's hire some folks who can do something with those picks. I'll take picking 4, 5, or 6 in RD3 b/c the team is going to need every opportunity to find good young players in the 2021 NFL Draft.
I'll take every single advantage I can get. You never know when you can turn pick #68 into a later 3rd RD pick and a 2nd RD pick in 2022.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
For me it depends who is there in the top of the Third but a later 3rd and a round two in 22 could be very sweet.
I would be OK with this,

Some of the guys that should be available at 67 and 102 are Davis DT Georgia/DT Wilson Fla St./ Rodarius Williams CB OK St./Browning OLB Ohio St./Newsome CB Nortwetsern/Hutchinson Edge Michigan/Hubbard RB Ok St./Hill RB/Miss St./OT Radnuz ND St./Brown OT N. Iowa/ Josh Myers OG Ohio St./Moses LB Alabama/ Etc....

Point is there should be 2-3 very good starters to be found in the 3rd/4th rd.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I would be OK with this,

Some of the guys that should be available at 67 and 102 are Davis DT Georgia/DT Wilson Fla St./ Rodarius Williams CB OK St./Browning OLB Ohio St./Newsome CB Nortwetsern/Hutchinson Edge Michigan/Hubbard RB Ok St./Hill RB/Miss St./OT Radnuz ND St./Brown OT N. Iowa/ Josh Myers OG Ohio St./Moses LB Alabama/ Etc....

Point is there should be 2-3 very good starters to be found in the 3rd/4th rd.
I've always been a proponent of when rebuilding, do so from the inside out/back. Therefore Davis and Wilson make sense to me. O'Brien really sacrificed the defense trying to improve his offense.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I've always been a proponent of when rebuilding, do so from the inside out/back. Therefore Davis and Wilson make sense to me. O'Brien really sacrificed the defense trying to improve his offense.
Yep, with the problems the Texans have had stopping the run Davis would be a great pick. He's an immovable man in the middle. He wont give you much pass rush though. Find a cover LB in the 4th and a slot CB in the 4th. Plus sign the best outside CB you can find to pair with Roby outside and all of the sudden the defense would look much better. I hope they start running more of a 4-3 hybrid defense since the defense looks so bad.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I've always been a proponent of when rebuilding, do so from the inside out/back. Therefore Davis and Wilson make sense to me. O'Brien really sacrificed the defense trying to improve his offense.

I wouldn't normally disagree with that approach but I think the main focus of a new regime should be helping Watson as much as possible and the best way to do that would be fix the running game , hell it'll help the defense too by keeping them off the field. Step one is finding a quality back , step to is fixing what isn't working on the OL.

I'd draft a RB with the 3rd , dump Martin , move Fulton to Center , Titus to RG and RJohnson at RT - also have to find some depth there - Heck & ???.

We can fix the defense later .... Keeping Watson upright has to be priority #1 and there's no better way of doing that than with a good running game.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I wouldn't normally disagree with that approach but I think the main focus of a new regime should be helping Watson as much as possible and the best way to do that would be fix the running game , hell it'll help the defense too by keeping them off the field. Step one is finding a quality back , step to is fixing what isn't working on the OL.

I'd draft a RB with the 3rd , dump Martin , move Fulton to Center , Titus to RG and RJohnson at RT - also have to find some depth there - Heck & ???.

We can fix the defense later .... Keeping Watson upright has to be priority #1 and there's no better way of doing that than with a good running game.
Sounds to me like everything you've suggested revolves around fixing the interior.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Sounds to me like everything you've suggested revolves around fixing the interior.
Martin has been terrible ....and there's the cap savings in dumping him.

Then there's the issue of dealing with stunts and passing rushers off - I think most of that on the right side is on Titus but he's hard to replace at this point for several reasons - moving him inside takes some pressure off of him.


But you still need a quality RB , preferably on a cheap contract. There's some retreads out there that could be helpful but .... I don't know if that's money well spent. RB and interior OL are positions that you can get good talent in those mid rounds while those retreads are going to cost somewhere around $3m and you can get a 3rd / 4th round draft pick for ~$725k-$850k in last years draft , that's likely to decrease some with the cap reduction.

You aren't going to get a comparable talent at CB , OT or an edge rusher in that draft range as those are premium positions and you are picking the 10th or lower prospect at those positions by that time where at RB / OG you could be looking at a 3rd rated guy. Having those players on cheap contracts compared to a FA is a bonus & you use your limited cap space on the best FA's you can afford at those premium positions.

The WR spots are gonna be real interesting ....
 


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