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Pre-season...Game 3...Dallas Cowboys!

OptimisticTexan said:
RC was assigned to OB's coaching staff by upper management. I believe RS gave RC plenty of input in regards to the defensive talent he wanted.

OB has owned this offense since he arrived as well as all the decision (except 1) at QB.....maybe 2 b/c I didn't see OB standing and clapping his hands like RS when the team drafted Watson. OB sat there with a look of, I can't believe he just ducking did this.

OB has insisted on being both the HC and OC.....even when he's assigned a flunky to the position of OC. I guess a fall guy for when the record is below expectations. OB and I guess Devlin have made one crappy decision after another in regards to the OL. This doesn't even come close to touching on the inability of Devlin to coach up any of the players he's been given. OB seems to think Devlin's shite don't stink. Are you guys on board with OB's decision to retain Devlin?

The GIF attached by Tex sums up my feeling each and every time OB heads to the podium after a loss. I wish everyone in the press corps would say, how about we just jump to the next question since we've already jotted down the answer you've given far too many times.

My question to OB, why haven't you been able to assemble or coach up an OL since your arrival?
Click to expand...
Don’t you believe you need to back off and see how this year plays out. We will need big help not having injuries but I want to see how Henderson plays. And Howard and Sharping look like great additions. What about Roderick? Fantastic job of bringing him in and coaching him up right? Let’s see first what he does and the other three do but what if we go a long way to greatly improving four positions on the OL, five if we keep Fulton at C. This is how I view the world. There are interesting developments that bear watching and discussing. Nobody on this board has any control over what this team does but how one approaches the ride makes for better discussions on this forum, IMO.
 
Mr teX said:
never said it was...but lets be clear, Keenum ISN'T more than a back up/qb 3 in the NFL & if we're keeping with the narrative that you guys like to spin with "Smith only brought in the players BoB wanted" well then BoB actually was at least consulted on bringing Keenum back. So regardless of how it went down, Keenum was given another chance under BoB to resurrect his career......Not the guy who drafted him who was up in Denver........BoB did. Without that chance, its just as plausible that BoB is right & Keenum is in the CFL somewhere or out of football entirely.
Click to expand...
OB was wrong in saying that Keenum is no more than a 3rd string QB.
Keenum is at worst a journeyman QB like Fitz.
Drafting Savage was a bad idea.
So was bringing in various other journeymen and back up QBs.
He could have had Keenum for cheap as a stop-gap, and use the resource like trade the 4th rounder for future pick.
Or they wouldn’t have to endure Osweiler, and then lost a 2nd round pick because of the accumulating poor decisions at QB.
 
76Texan said:
OB was wrong in saying that Keenum is no more than a 3rd string QB.
Keenum is at worst a journeyman QB like Fitz.
Drafting Savage was a bad idea.
So was bringing in various other journeymen and back up QBs.
He could have had Keenum for cheap as a stop-gap, and use the resource like trade the 4th rounder for future pick.
Or they wouldn’t have to endure Osweiler, and then lost a 2nd round pick because of the accumulating poor decisions at QB.
Click to expand...

Keenum's 2nd best season was barely better than what Hoyer did here in his 1 season with us & a journeyman qb is by definition a 2nd/3rd string qb bro. I know this is a sore spot for you but it's just the reality. Quality back ups largely stay put. Savage was a 4th round pick....what's so bad about taking a flyer on qb there? Various other journeymen & back up qbs had more on their resume than Keenum to that point.

You say they lost a 2nd round pick due to accumulating bad decisions at Qb, i say Keenum would've likely been part of those accumulating bad decisions at the position had Bob decided to run with him instead of picking up another 1 of those other bad decisions at the position.
 
Mr teX said:
never said it was...but lets be clear, Keenum ISN'T more than a back up/qb 3 in the NFL & if we're keeping with the narrative that you guys like to spin with "Smith only brought in the players BoB wanted" well then BoB actually was at least consulted on bringing Keenum back. So regardless of how it went down, Keenum was given another chance under BoB to resurrect his career......Not the guy who drafted him who was up in Denver........BoB did. Without that chance, its just as plausible that BoB is right & Keenum is in the CFL somewhere or out of football entirely.
Click to expand...
OB was wrong in saying that Keenum is no more than a 3rd string QB.
Keenum is at worst a journeyman QB like Fitz.
Drafting Savage was a bad idea.
So was bringing in various other journeymen and back up QBs.
He could have had Keenum for cheap as a stop-gap, and use the resource like trade the 4th rounder for future pick.
Or they wouldn’t have to endure Osweiler, and then lost a 2nd round pick because of the accumulating poor decisions at QB.
Mr teX said:
Keenum's 2nd best season was barely better than what Hoyer did here in his 1 season with us & a journeyman qb is by definition a 2nd/3rd string qb bro. I know this is a sore spot for you but it's just the reality. Quality back ups largely stay put. Savage was a 4th round pick....what's so bad about taking a flyer on qb there? Various other journeymen & back up qbs had more on their resume than Keenum to that point.

You say they lost a 2nd round pick due to accumulating bad decisions at Qb, i say Keenum would've likely been part of those accumulating bad decisions at the position had Bob decided to run with him instead of picking up another 1 of those other bad decisions at the position.
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It's not fun when you argue just to be arguing.

Let me rephrase it for you here:
Keenum's best year was when he did not have any first rep, but came in and took the Vikings to the championship game, with a leaky O-line.
(Hoyer had 4 good to very good Olinmen playing in at least 14 games each).
Keenum was instrumental in a number of games that year, and not just a game manager.
He was avoiding pressure and making plays.
 
[QUOTE="76Texan, post:
It's not fun when you argue just to be arguing.

Let me rephrase it for you here:
Keenum's best year was when he did not have any first rep, but came in and took the Vikings to the championship game, with a leaky O-line.
(Hoyer had 4 good to very good Olinmen playing in at least 14 games each).
Keenum was instrumental in a number of games that year, and not just a game manager.
He was avoiding pressure and making plays.[/QUOTE]

My man 76, you're 1 of the very few on hear whose posts & insights i enjoy and respect...........................but we can just agree to disagree about what Keenum is. Fitzpatrick threw for 31 TD's the year after he left us & was "instrumental" in the Jets almost making the playoffs that year. Had he had a defense who knows how far he could've taken that team. Rex Grossman with his Good Rex, Bad Rex act..."led" a team to the SB. What typically happens with these guys as what happened with Keenum is the clock strikes midnight & they turn back into a pumpkin.

Keenum caught lighting in a bottle that year & it has been known to happen with lots of guys of his ilk over the years...lets just leave it at that.
 
Mr teX said:
[QUOTE="76Texan, post:
It's not fun when you argue just to be arguing.

Let me rephrase it for you here:
Keenum's best year was when he did not have any first rep, but came in and took the Vikings to the championship game, with a leaky O-line.
(Hoyer had 4 good to very good Olinmen playing in at least 14 games each).
Keenum was instrumental in a number of games that year, and not just a game manager.
He was avoiding pressure and making plays.
Click to expand...

My man 76, you're 1 of the very few on hear whose posts & insights i enjoy and respect...........................but we can just agree to disagree about what Keenum is. Fitzpatrick threw for 31 TD's the year after he left us & was "instrumental" in the Jets almost making the playoffs that year. Had he had a defense who knows how far he could've taken that team. Rex Grossman with his Good Rex, Bad Rex act..."led" a team to the SB. What typically happens with these guys as what happened with Keenum is the clock strikes midnight & they turn back into a pumpkin.

Keenum caught lighting in a bottle that year & it has been known to happen with lots of guys of his ilk over the years...lets just leave it at that.[/QUOTE]


This is what I mean by a leaky Vikings offensive line:
https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-offensive-lines-from-the-2017-nfl-season

Note that:
(1) The Broncos line was right there with them.
And they only got worse the following year.
Note that Leary was listed as their best lineman.
Guess what? Keenum lost him in the 6th game last year.
The guy that replaced Leary was lost 2 games later.
The Broncos second best lineman, Matt Paradis, was lost in the 9th game.
How good was he? He just received a 3-yr, 27M contract as a Center.
The swing tackle (Menelik Watson - 7 starts in 2017) was lost before the season even started.

The Broncos had a bunch of other injuries: no. 1A TE in the third game, no. 1B TE missed 5 games, same as the below average RT (veldheer).
The no. 1 receiver, Sanders, got injured in the 12th game and was lost for the year.
They traded the 2nd receiver to the Texans halfway through the season.
And Vance Joseph was the HC.
 
76Texan said:
My man 76, you're 1 of the very few on hear whose posts & insights i enjoy and respect...........................but we can just agree to disagree about what Keenum is. Fitzpatrick threw for 31 TD's the year after he left us & was "instrumental" in the Jets almost making the playoffs that year. Had he had a defense who knows how far he could've taken that team. Rex Grossman with his Good Rex, Bad Rex act..."led" a team to the SB. What typically happens with these guys as what happened with Keenum is the clock strikes midnight & they turn back into a pumpkin.

Keenum caught lighting in a bottle that year & it has been known to happen with lots of guys of his ilk over the years...lets just leave it at that.
Click to expand...

The Oline is always a story with Keenum.
Even in 2013, here's what PFF had:

16. Houston Texans (10th)
PB: 27th, RB: 8th, PEN: 21st

The same goes everywhere Keenum went.
Even so,

In 2015, the Rams was 4-7 with Foles and 3-2 with Keenum
Both losses were by 3.
The second one, could have easily been a win.
The Rams ran 3 times for a negative one, and missed a 48yd FG that would have won it in OT.

In 2016, Keenum was 4-5, and Golf 0-7

The Rams might not even have a receiver that qualifies as a solid 2nd receiver.
Tavon Austin is borderline.
Under McVay, he was relegated to a bit player role.

They didn't have a number one receiver.
 
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Keenum is a good guy but I’m glad he’s gone. He brings back too many memories of just not being good enough. We wasted the Kubiak years never being good enough running a finesse O and a soft D. Those QB’s behind Schaub just lingered on and on
 
And before saying that Keenum reverted to the norm, besides the factors that I had mentioned above, one also needs to consider the number of penalties and the penalty yardage on offense (but really, on both sides of the ball), and the number of drops by the receivers.

Trust me, they are high.
.....

And You think 15 Ints is a high number?
Not so fast.
Keenum’s adjusted Int rate ranks 15th (not great, but not terrible).

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/adjusted-interceptions-2018

And that doesn’t even take into account the 2 or 3 times the receiver ran the different route than the ball Keenum threw.
Given that those receivers were “Green”, I surmise that they ran the wrong route.
 
76Texan said:
And before saying that Keenum reverted to the norm, besides the factors that I had mentioned above, one also needs to consider the number of penalties and the penalty yardage on offense (but really, on both sides of the ball), and the number of drops by the receivers.

Trust me, they are high.
.....

And You think 15 Ints is a high number?
Not so fast.
Keenum’s adjusted Int rate ranks 15th (not great, but not terrible).

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/adjusted-interceptions-2018

And that doesn’t even take into account the 2 or 3 times the receiver ran the different route than the ball Keenum threw.
Given that those receivers were “Green”, I surmise that they ran the wrong route.
Click to expand...

Well hell i could play WR in the NFL.........If the league would let me get 1 of those running starts before the ball is snapped like in the arena league...& if noone could tackle me until after i caught the ball........& if I had OBJ & Nuk opposite me so that i couldn't be doubled......:elmo:.

Sure is a helluva lot of qualifiers and the like u pulled out for Keenum...I'm sure NFL coaches have access to all this same data & get the added advantage of seeing him on a practice field & in-game too. So tell me then, why do they keep moving on from him after 1 year? Why is it that he just can't seem to find a coach that looks at all the stats like you & believes in him the same way you do?

This isn't a case (no pun intended) of him not being given a chance...This isn't a case of him constantly being injured & unable to really showcase himself...........It's not even a case of league coaches being biased towards his measurables or him not being in a system that best utilizing what he does best. There's really only 1 reason why. Its b/c they know at best, he is NO MORE THAN A 2nd/3rd string BACK UP QB that's best utilized as a bridge to someone who is thought to be a franchise guy.

Lots of guys currently in & out of the league can do what Keenum has been able to do with the right set of circumstances...that still doesn't elevate his or their capabilities any higher than a back up / 3rd stringer bro.
 
76Texan said:
And before saying that Keenum reverted to the norm, besides the factors that I had mentioned above, one also needs to consider the number of penalties and the penalty yardage on offense (but really, on both sides of the ball), and the number of drops by the receivers.

Trust me, they are high.
.....

And You think 15 Ints is a high number?
Not so fast.
Keenum’s adjusted Int rate ranks 15th (not great, but not terrible).

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/adjusted-interceptions-2018

And that doesn’t even take into account the 2 or 3 times the receiver ran the different route than the ball Keenum threw.
Given that those receivers were “Green”, I surmise that they ran the wrong route.
Click to expand...


76 we have other major concerns to talk about. Why is old news being brought up again with all this drama circling around Kirby?
 
Texansballer74 said:
76 we have other major concerns to talk about. Why is old news being brought up again with all this drama circling around Kirby?
Click to expand...
I wasn't the one who brought it up, but it's probably best to take it to the NFL forum.

On the other hand, IMO, it's relevant here just like how OB told AJ, you're going to catch 40 passes for us.

I mean, what the heck?

AJ knew it's the tail end of his career.
But that's no way to treat a grown man and an icon who had given his all to the organization.

I don't hate O'Brien (never hate anybody; only speak out against the devil type, and even then, not with hate.)

IMHO, how O'Brien handles people is not a good trait of a leader of men.

People run through a brick wall for a leader of men. It's a proven fact in any culture.

I gave O'Brien the benefit of the doubt for two years.

Not seeing it.

Heck, I had had to let people go for various reasons.
If you're a man, you need to respect the other.
And I'm not even a leader of men.
But I know, I will follow one.
 
thunderkyss said:
Let it go. This is a game day thread for a game the dude didn't even play in.
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Trust me, I had let it go a long time ago.
I disagree with O'Brien, but I tried to put myself in his shoes.
I think I understood his logic.

At the same time, I've always said that we're here to discuss football.

It doesn't matter to me which thread.
But yeah, maybe this ought to be moved to the Fire O'Brien thread. :ahhaha:
 
Mr teX said:
Well hell i could play WR in the NFL.........If the league would let me get 1 of those running starts before the ball is snapped like in the arena league...& if noone could tackle me until after i caught the ball........& if I had OBJ & Nuk opposite me so that i couldn't be doubled......:elmo:.

Sure is a helluva lot of qualifiers and the like u pulled out for Keenum...I'm sure NFL coaches have access to all this same data & get the added advantage of seeing him on a practice field & in-game too. So tell me then, why do they keep moving on from him after 1 year? Why is it that he just can't seem to find a coach that looks at all the stats like you & believes in him the same way you do?

This isn't a case (no pun intended) of him not being given a chance...This isn't a case of him constantly being injured & unable to really showcase himself...........It's not even a case of league coaches being biased towards his measurables or him not being in a system that best utilizing what he does best. There's really only 1 reason why. Its b/c they know at best, he is NO MORE THAN A 2nd/3rd string BACK UP QB that's best utilized as a bridge to someone who is thought to be a franchise guy.

Lots of guys currently in & out of the league can do what Keenum has been able to do with the right set of circumstances...that still doesn't elevate his or their capabilities any higher than a back up / 3rd stringer bro.
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I'm going to take this to the Fire O'Brien thread, OK.
 
IDEXAN said:
And neither do W-L records.
I still can't get some guys getting all worked up about this game ? I think it's a thing that's important to some guys from Texas but meaningless to imports like myself.
There's only been one game between the Texans & Cowboys thats had any real significance in the last 4 years and it was played in October of 2018 in Houston.
I really wish the Texans did have a real rivalry which we don't IMO.
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It s a texas thing the gov cup. There was a time it was all cowboys then the oilers came in. Here in San Antone middle of texas it s a blend of cowboys texans. Many more txans now than ever before. I enjoypreseason for the new players and changes that have occurred. Good time to learn mistakes and get the non starters going.
 
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