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[Pick 89] Nico Collins WR Michigan

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
IOW's picking at the top of the draft so you can get premium talent is waaay secondary to having a stable organization with FO and Coaching staffs being able to work together to create a vision.
Please list all of the stable organizations that didn’t have great players. I’ll wait.




You don’t have a clue whether the Texans have made the correct choice at GM or HC. Organizations miss on these positions far more often than prospects at the top of the draft. Their best chance at success? Getting the best players possible. And if they still fail like others you mentioned? At least the Texans have a good stable of talent to attract the next GM and HC.
 

Double Barrel

Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So I guess the Vegas experts are dumb morons, too? :hmmm:

Vegas Forecasts Texans As NFL's Worst Team For 2021

"There's just not a lot of good news on the football front for the Houston Texans, and that has been officially quantified by Caesar's Sportsbook, who put out early season win totals on the NFL last week, in which the Texans are tied with the lowly Detroit Lions for the lowest season win total in the league."

Basic critical analysis would quickly reach a similar conclusion with a gutted team lacking quality QB talent and glaring holes at many positions and an inexperienced new head coach.

This is very typical for any team in full rebuild mode from the GM on down. It's nothing new under the sun and decades of NFL history are full of examples.

Obviously, none of the above is taking into account the awe we are about to experience with Davis Mills, but that's another conversation. :koolaid:
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Please list all of the stable organizations that didn’t have great players. I’ll wait.




You don’t have a clue whether the Texans have made the correct choice at GM or HC. Organizations miss on these positions far more often than prospects at the top of the draft. Their best chance at success? Getting the best players possible. And if they still fail like others you mentioned? At least the Texans have a good stable of talent to attract the next GM and HC.
you're missing the point betty boop. These organization became stable only after they fixed their GM/HC & owner issues...Most of the talent and/or biggest pieces of the talent came after that. & if a hole in your statement is that if indeed they didn't make the correct choice at HC & GM, then obviously it probably means that they failed to accumulate a good stable of talent/best players possible....& in that regard, you start from scratch with EVERYTHING.

I've also never heard of a team being unable to land a good HC candidate b/c the team as currently left by the previous regime didn't have enough talent &/or great players & its preposterous to make this argument. Every team has good, talented enough players within it whether they're poorly run or not. Exhibit A your favorite team, the Texans who for years had AJ & the likes of Aaron Glenn, Marcus Coleman & Domanick Davis & it amounted to **** b/c they had the wrong guys at the helm......among other things (NFL changing expansion draft rules). But do you honestly believe they were the chief reason Kubiak a hot HC candidate at the time decided to come here? Do you honestly believe that the Texans wouldn't have been able to land some other hot HC prospect b/c they didn't have enough talent? Lol, that ridiculous! Kubiak came here in 2006 despite the team not being in the greatest of situations b/c it was an open gig.... it was a pay bump & it was in his hometown.

Each are 1 of 32 jobs in the entire world & each of the positions are highly sought after. Talent or no talent, Teams will always be able to attract GM and HC candidates...good ones too. Sure, team owners might have to make a concession here and there to land a sought after candidate...Like the Raiders did with Gruden by giving him a 10 year contract, but they will always be able to attract their next GM or HC with 0 problems & how much talent that is currently on the roster will have little to do with that.

& you are absolutely right. I don't have a clue whether they made the correct choice at GM or HC...but neither do you & yet somehow you feel like your opinion about what's about to happen with them is more valid simply b/c the players on the team aren't great/good enough players in your eyes. I also call bs on teams missing more on HC/GM's than they do on prospects at the top of the draft simply b/c the numbers of players drafted up there outnumber the number of GM/HC candidates each year....
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So I guess the Vegas experts are dumb morons, too? :hmmm:

Vegas Forecasts Texans As NFL's Worst Team For 2021

"There's just not a lot of good news on the football front for the Houston Texans, and that has been officially quantified by Caesar's Sportsbook, who put out early season win totals on the NFL last week, in which the Texans are tied with the lowly Detroit Lions for the lowest season win total in the league."

Basic critical analysis would quickly reach a similar conclusion with a gutted team lacking quality QB talent and glaring holes at many positions and an inexperienced new head coach.

This is very typical for any team in full rebuild mode from the GM on down. It's nothing new under the sun and decades of NFL history are full of examples.

Obviously, none of the above is taking into account the awe we are about to experience with Davis Mills, but that's another conversation. :koolaid:
Depends...should we run down every instance where Vegas predicted something and were flat out wrong? quite a long list. They're not doing anything other than what we're doing...
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
So I guess the Vegas experts are dumb morons, too? :hmmm:

Vegas Forecasts Texans As NFL's Worst Team For 2021

"There's just not a lot of good news on the football front for the Houston Texans, and that has been officially quantified by Caesar's Sportsbook, who put out early season win totals on the NFL last week, in which the Texans are tied with the lowly Detroit Lions for the lowest season win total in the league."

Basic critical analysis would quickly reach a similar conclusion with a gutted team lacking quality QB talent and glaring holes at many positions and an inexperienced new head coach.

This is very typical for any team in full rebuild mode from the GM on down. It's nothing new under the sun and decades of NFL history are full of examples.

Obviously, none of the above is taking into account the awe we are about to experience with Davis Mills, but that's another conversation. :koolaid:
I don’t believe anyone is dumb for believing or predicting what they think will happen with the Texans this upcoming season. They have all the right to view things in a negative way. My thing is I have seen a lot of teams fight through adversity at all levels of play. I’m just hopefully our own Texans will be one of those teams.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This is exactly why I have that gut feeling that Caserio will get short changed when he trades DW4.
Because Meltzer doesn't know what proper value is?

I have to imagine the Covid 2020 season... no combine, & other BS hurt the ability to get a true evaluation on some players, like Mills, like Collins.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Lol you don't have a clue & you're too locked in on the micro part of the entire equation. The Browns, Bills & Bucs have more or less been picking at the top of the draft for 15+ years & it made very little difference in their fortunes as those top picks have eventually wanted out b/c the franchises were run so badly....or those picks just flamed out.......not unlike the situation the Texans were in pre-Caserio. The Rams....... same thing during the Jeff Fisher era. The niners post Harbaugh/Kaep stunk it up for a number of years with the Chip Kelley/Jim Tonsula eras + the Yorks were fighting amongst each other too, which is partly why Harbaugh was forced out. Furthermore the Bucs recent run had more to do with Brady coming there & him bringing his cache along with him....or did you forget that they jettisoned their recent top pick in Winston to bring Brady in? That likely doesn't work with any other player in the league except probably Rodgers...maybe Mahomes.

IOW's picking at the top of the draft so you can get premium talent is waaay secondary to having a stable organization with FO and Coaching staffs being able to work together to create a vision. & just using your examples above The key in stabilizing ALL of these organizations was getting competent FO and HC in place with some ownership "come to jesus" moments. Despite picking at the top of the draft for years, The Browns were largely terrible until Haslem himself got straight with that flying J lawsuit his company had been under & he finally got competent GM'ing and HC'ing in place starting with doing an about face on Freddie Kitchens. Same for the Bills. They finally stabilized the FO & coaching staff with Brandon Beane & Sean McDermott in 2017 & got some momentum going in building out the vision together. The Niners did THE EXACT SAME THING THE EXACT SAME YEAR when they brought in Lynch and Shanahan in 2017. The Rams already had a good GM in place but he made a horrible decision at the outset by hiring Jeff Fisher (or good decision depending on how you look at it as they were in transition from STL to LA)..but he eventually corrected it when he brought in McVay.

Bringing this full circle, i think the Texans by bringing in Caserio & letting him bring in his guy that he'll be able to work with well in Culley, I believe the toughest part is already done. & because DW4 will eventually be traded.........presumably for very good capital, the importance as you say of having a poor record is not nearly as important. Once he's traded we will almost assuredly have multiple picks in the 1st round at least 1 year & as you know those picks can be used to move wherever in the draft b/c more important than having "star players" everywhere is having guys who fit & can work together & that includes the FO.

The 1 year contracts are being used as flexibility. Next year we'll likely have more cap space & flexibility than everyone in the league just due to all of these 1 year contracts coming off the books & us being able to purge a few more lopsided contracts (Mercy, Cobb). And at that point, we'll also have our full compliment of picks + what we'll get for DW4.
If all those one-year contracts are coming off of the books why are we three million dollars in the red for 2022?
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
I thought it was because he opted out the 2020 season.
It is seeing if you watch film he can just go up and snag a pass if he is tightly covered. But, he is fully capable of getting separation from DBs

Best on vertical routes where he can get to top speed and threaten a defender's cushion.

Taken from link below. /\



 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
I read a evaluation of Brandin Cooks recently that had him listed in the latter third of NFL wide receivers if I remember correctly #26?
Just doing the math, there are 64-96 starting WRs (depending on 2 or 3 WR sets). #26 would be somewhere in the middle or top 3rd tier of starting WRs. Middle 3rd sounds right to me.

Edit: 26? I went through the NFL WRs, and that's the range I would put Cooks, +/- 2.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
You good 76, I knew you were jiving around lol.

Most definitely would be a plus. Watch out for Brevin Jordan. This youngster is a gamer too.
Yep...the odds of 2 good TEs is not great. However, imagine the possibilities if it happens. Minus murder, think how dangerous Gronk and Hernandez were. Teamed with a good QB and WRs... scary for a D.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
We hear this about somebody every year. Last year it was John Reid.

True. I've heard coaches (namely ob) bash rookie players ,but rarely do you hear other players talk down about rookies.

Sounds like pretty typical shop talk to embrace and encourage the youngsters. I always take it with a grain of salt and wait to see a preseason performance (or 3-4) before getting excited.

I may be forgetting a couple of guys along the way but the last time I remember any player living up to the off-season hype it was Arian Foster.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
A WR has more ability that you can see. Now, what happens in pads getting hit? That is the part that we have to wait for.
I’m just saying, what these guys do in practice, in May, and especially against each other, doesn’t really mean much. Yes, pads and getting hit might mean a little more, and more so if they were scrimmaging against another team, which I’d rather see over preseason games. But we hear guys doing well in practice every single year they’ve been in existence.

And really, what do you expect someone to say when asked about a player? Dude looks terrible, he’s really got to pick it up if he’s going to make the team?
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
True. I've heard coaches (namely ob) bash rookie players ,but rarely do you hear other players talk down about rookies.

Sounds like pretty typical shop talk to embrace and encourage the youngsters. I always take it with a grain of salt and wait to see a preseason performance (or 3-4) before getting excited.

I may be forgetting a couple of guys along the way but the last time I remember any player living up to the off-season hype it was Arian Foster.
With Foster's rookie year, we had a couple of UDFA rookie RBs who had potential: him and Jeremiah Johnson, iirc. But Foster got cut and ended up on the practice squad. He didn't play his rookie year until the last few games, and in his first game, he promptly fumbled and got pulled for a couple of games. Then he had a couple of good games to end the season.

His real off-season hype was coming into his 2nd year which was the year we drafted Ben Tate.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Maybe not you specifically, but an average fan standing on the sidelines during a practice. The first thing is perceived speed. Second, is route running and breaking in and out of cuts. Third would be his hands and ability to catch. Forth, maybe his catch radius. Fifth, I'd say his ability to jump and outfight a defender for the ball. And last, his ability to get separation, although this could be lumped in with route running and cutting.

I'd say all of these are more easily seen by a casual fan than, say, a lineman's hand rechnique, or whether a DB has flexible hips. WR's simply have a lot of little things that make up a good receiver that a fan can easily see.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Maybe not you specifically, but an average fan standing on the sidelines during a practice. The first thing is perceived speed. Second, is route running and breaking in and out of cuts. Third would be his hands and ability to catch. Forth, maybe his catch radius. Fifth, I'd say his ability to jump and outfight a defender for the ball. And last, his ability to get separation, although this could be lumped in with route running and cutting.

I'd say all of these are more easily seen by a casual fan than, say, a lineman's hand rechnique, or whether a DB has flexible hips. WR's simply have a lot of little things that make up a good receiver that a fan can easily see.
The average fan you're referring to here though has no real idea of what he's seeing in all of those wr attributes/skills anyway. They don't know what really makes solid route running and can't gauge speed or leaping ability any more so on a wr than a cb.
 
With Foster's rookie year, we had a couple of UDFA rookie RBs who had potential: him and Jeremiah Johnson, iirc. But Foster got cut and ended up on the practice squad. He didn't play his rookie year until the last few games, and in his first game, he promptly fumbled and got pulled for a couple of games. Then he had a couple of good games to end the season.

His real off-season hype was coming into his 2nd year which was the year we drafted Ben Tate.
Gives me hope that Scottie Phillips will get a fair chance. I don't know why I am rooting for him but I am.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Maybe not you specifically, but an average fan standing on the sidelines during a practice. The first thing is perceived speed. Second, is route running and breaking in and out of cuts. Third would be his hands and ability to catch. Forth, maybe his catch radius. Fifth, I'd say his ability to jump and outfight a defender for the ball. And last, his ability to get separation, although this could be lumped in with route running and cutting.

I'd say all of these are more easily seen by a casual fan than, say, a lineman's hand rechnique, or whether a DB has flexible hips. WR's simply have a lot of little things that make up a good receiver that a fan can easily see.
So a casual fan can't see a DB having perceived speed, not allowing seperation, making most catches contested ones, breaking up plays? It's just about flexible hips?

And I assume they're running whatever drills they are with someone covering him? Maybe? Not? If so, let's not forget who he's going up against.
 


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