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[Pick 89] Nico Collins WR Michigan

Mr teX said:
That's fair and i see alot of people predicting that based on a number of things...its really only been bad news coming out of Kirby since BoB was fired. The absolute lone bright spot was the hiring of Caserio.....& even that for some shouldn't even be a bright spot b/c of the Easterby & NE ties.

Still i think a few of you guys will be surprised next year. I'm not predicting playoffs or anything, but i think they'll be better on both sides of the ball than the talent indicates and everyone thinks they will.

Its never hard to improve from being straight garbage to being respectable but respectable to contender? That's infinitely tougher & that's where this team has traditionally stalled out at under multiple regimes.
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Hope you're right.
 
powda said:
Fair. It is a new gm and coaching staff. The talent is so bad on this team though I suspect a 4 win (at best) season.
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We’re void of talent on the defensive side of the ball.
We have plenty of talent on the offensive side, even without Watson, Hopkins, & Fuler.

I do believe coaching was the biggest issue on our OL, but you can definitely see talent is there. Tunsil, Scharping, & Howard... I’m not ready to give up on them. Then the guys Caserio added in the off-season are in my mind upgrades over Fulton, Selemente, & Martin.

Lindsay & Ingram are good editions. I don’t understand keeping Johnson.

QB & WR are downgraded, but proven starters.
 
Mr teX said:
That's fair and i see alot of people predicting that based on a number of things...its really only been bad news coming out of Kirby since BoB was fired. The absolute lone bright spot was the hiring of Caserio.....& even that for some shouldn't even be a bright spot b/c of the Easterby & NE ties.

Still i think a few of you guys will be surprised next year. I'm not predicting playoffs or anything, but i think they'll be better on both sides of the ball than the talent indicates and everyone thinks they will.

Its never hard to improve from being straight garbage to being respectable but respectable to contender? That's infinitely tougher & that's where this team has traditionally stalled out at under multiple regimes.
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They’re going to be surprised this season.
 
thunderkyss said:
We’re void of talent on the defensive side of the ball.
We have plenty of talent on the offensive side, even without Watson, Hopkins, & Fuler.

I do believe coaching was the biggest issue on our OL, but you can definitely see talent is there. Tunsil, Scharping, & Howard... I’m not ready to give up on them. Then the guys Caserio added in the off-season are in my mind upgrades over Fulton, Selemente, & Martin.

Lindsay & Ingram are good editions. I don’t understand keeping Johnson.

QB & WR are downgraded, but proven starters.
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I'm not 100% convinced of that. True we don't have the big names any more but fact is that team completely gave up on the season by game 5, Weaver knew his days were numbered and he was a rookie DC so he couldn't/wouldn't turn it around, I'm not sure RAC left the HC office outside of game days and I can't say I blame him and JJ was a shell of his old self but was still trying to play like his old self. Since then we've brought in a bunch of F/A and yeah its again no big names but it is competition and there are, rightfully so, questions about Lovie but at least its something different.

I'm not saying we are going to be a championship team or even a playoff team but I can see us breaking even or having a, barely. winning season. Helps that the schedule seems easier to.
 
maverick512000 said:
I'm not 100% convinced of that. True we don't have the big names any more but fact is that team completely gave up on the season by game 5, Weaver knew his days were numbered and he was a rookie DC so he couldn't/wouldn't turn it around, I'm not sure RAC left the HC office outside of game days and I can't say I blame him and JJ was a shell of his old self but was still trying to play like his old self. Since then we've brought in a bunch of F/A and yeah its again no big names but it is competition and there are, rightfully so, questions about Lovie but at least its something different.

I'm not saying we are going to be a championship team or even a playoff team but I can see us breaking even or having a, barely. winning season. Helps that the schedule seems easier to.
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Not just competition. We are changing to a 4-3 Tampa 2. Lovie has been very good at having a good D. The D will not have any superstar that we know of anyway. However, football is a team sport. If 1 "B" rated player knows how and what to do in the scheme. He can play as well as a star who is out of position 1/2 the time and has to use speed or genetic gifts to bail him out. Team D has won titles. NE has had players drafted in around the 6th round look like a superstar. So much so that a team offers up a huge contract for them. And then they look stupid because the new team is not playing as a united front.
 
76Texan said:
Been watching game film.
I like this pick.
He still needs to polish his route running; otherwise, all the tools are there.
His floor is a no. 3, and that's not bad for a late third round pick.
A chance at becoming a no. 1, if he really works hard at it.
Even if he ends up as a no. 4, it's not a wash.
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I have watched him since day 1. His floor is a #3, but I can see him being a #2 this year. And in 2022, I think you are going to be watching our #1 WR. He is that good
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont like giving up the 2022 4th.

But it really comes down to players. Hopefully due to the opt out Collins is a diamond in the rough. He's certainly talented and the Texans needed a guy who you could just throw it up to and he could go get it, particularly in the RZ.
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IDEXAN said:
Collins is somewhat reminiscent of Andre Johnson, but of course chances are he will never be of AJs caliber.
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Isn't this why they signed Donte Moncrief?
Get to know Houston Texans wide receiver Donte Moncrief, signed as an unrestricted free agent on March 22, 2021.
 
maverick512000 said:
Oh look Lucky bad mouthing the Texans and throwing shade on everything they do, must be Monday.
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No shade on the Texans. I think Caserio is doing exactly what he intends. He's a rookie GM, so he gets slack on his 1st draft day trade.

No, my ridicule is reserved for the Texan fans that are pushing the delusion that this year's team will be competitive, possibly a winning team. See, they want their cake and be able to eat it, too. If the Texans are terrible (and they will be), they can point to having no QB, no defense, no FAs worth spit, no draft choices until the 3rd round, rookie GM and Head Coach. All reasonable points.

But if the team is successful in some bizarro world scenario, they can say "I told you so!!!". Look, you can take your life savings and spend it on the lottery. If somehow you win, that doesn't obscure the fact that it was a stupid idea. No more fence straddling. Are the Texans going to be a .500 team, or are they going to be a bottom feeder. No more maybes, possibly, mights. Pick a side.
 
Lucky said:
No shade on the Texans. I think Caserio is doing exactly what he intends. He's a rookie GM, so he gets slack on his 1st draft day trade.

No, my ridicule is reserved for the Texan fans that are pushing the delusion that this year's team will be competitive, possibly a winning team. See, they want their cake and be able to eat it, too. If the Texans are terrible (and they will be), they can point to having no QB, no defense, no FAs worth spit, no draft choices until the 3rd round, rookie GM and Head Coach. All reasonable points.

But if the team is successful in some bizarro world scenario, they can say "I told you so!!!". Look, you can take your life savings and spend it on the lottery. If somehow you win, that doesn't obscure the fact that it was a stupid idea. No more fence straddling. Are the Texans going to be a .500 team, or are they going to be a bottom feeder. No more maybes, possibly, mights. Pick a side.
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I believe the Texans will be bottom feeders who’ll be playing 2021 with the idea of.....will we be drafting 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Now, with that tabled......I don’t expect the Texans to play their games like “Fainting Goats” but I think they will be a very competitive and entertaining but bad. I think they’ll compete early and fade as the game progresses and this may happen sooner against much better teams.

Now, I could change my opinion as these guys hit the field and decide to prove most of us wrong. The coaching staff may be much better as a group than we could have possibly imagined. I just like the fact that Caserio decided he wasn’t going to run the same ol’ turd platoon back onto the field in 2021 and hope for different results. He has absolutely turned this roster over as much as he possibly could with the financial restraints he faced. I think he’s accomplished what I had hoped he would, which was dumping the old and bringing in a bunch of hungry (and possible) under achievers and gave them a big opportunity to prove they belong in the NFL.

I think they could get a surprise win and maybe another 2-3 wins on any given Sunday. Like I stated....competitive, entertaining, and finding solid pieces for 2022 would be fine with me.
 
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Lucky said:
No shade on the Texans. I think Caserio is doing exactly what he intends. He's a rookie GM, so he gets slack on his 1st draft day trade.

No, my ridicule is reserved for the Texan fans that are pushing the delusion that this year's team will be competitive, possibly a winning team. See, they want their cake and be able to eat it, too. If the Texans are terrible (and they will be), they can point to having no QB, no defense, no FAs worth spit, no draft choices until the 3rd round, rookie GM and Head Coach. All reasonable points.

But if the team is successful in some bizarro world scenario, they can say "I told you so!!!". Look, you can take your life savings and spend it on the lottery. If somehow you win, that doesn't obscure the fact that it was a stupid idea. No more fence straddling. Are the Texans going to be a .500 team, or are they going to be a bottom feeder. No more maybes, possibly, mights. Pick a side.
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Anyone predicting a winning or a competitive team already know your list of ”reasonable points”. They are too obvious and have already been discounted. I think some have hope finally because of, not despite of, these changes. They will be more competitive this year and I’m coming from the point of TC competition. Not too many players have a spot on this team right now. How it stacks up you already have your opinion. But this team wins, IMO, if they succeed this year in establishing a new and competitive identity with some success with the implementation of their desired play style on O, D and ST’s. THAT alone makes for more interest than negativity going forward. If you had all your wish lists of draft choices etc this year you still have to go through with the task of changing the face of this team. To me their record this year pales with the importance of washing away the past.
 
Lucky said:
No shade on the Texans. I think Caserio is doing exactly what he intends. He's a rookie GM, so he gets slack on his 1st draft day trade.

No, my ridicule is reserved for the Texan fans that are pushing the delusion that this year's team will be competitive, possibly a winning team. See, they want their cake and be able to eat it, too. If the Texans are terrible (and they will be), they can point to having no QB, no defense, no FAs worth spit, no draft choices until the 3rd round, rookie GM and Head Coach. All reasonable points.

But if the team is successful in some bizarro world scenario, they can say "I told you so!!!". Look, you can take your life savings and spend it on the lottery. If somehow you win, that doesn't obscure the fact that it was a stupid idea. No more fence straddling. Are the Texans going to be a .500 team, or are they going to be a bottom feeder. No more maybes, possibly, mights. Pick a side.
Click to expand...

Its not about fence sitting or giving the Texans excuses. Likewise I'm not trying to "have my cake and eat it to" and I sure don't care about I told you so's. I am just willing to admit that I don't know everything about football and that the people making these decisions know far more than me. For some strange reason you seem to only see things in black and white, I'm simply acknowledging the "any given Sunday" idea and that a team that actually does play hard can do better than anyone thought they had a right to. Do I think we are talking SB or playoffs, Hell no but a .500 record isn't that lofty an idea.

Do I think they will hit it, no not really, so there is your side if you truly want one picked, but likewise I won't be surprised if they do because there are so many unknowns with the team that no one can really predict anything with any kind of certainty. Can the line be better with Devlin gone, who will be the QBs, how big an impact will all these vets playing for one last chance, like Honey Badger a couple years ago, have, what kind of defense will Lovie be able to create and was the defense really that bad or did they just not care, what kind of HC will Culley be and what did he learn from Reid and Harbaugh? All these questions have to be answered before we know how bad or good the Texans will be and I'm willing to admit that I don't have the answers, do you?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I believe the Texans will be bottom feeders who’ll be playing 2021 with the idea of.....will we be drafting 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Now, with that tabled......I don’t expect the Texans to play their games like “Fainting Goats” but I think they will be a very competitive and entertaining bad. I think they’ll compete earlier and fade as the game progresses and this may happen sooner against much better teams.

Now, I could change my opinion as these guys hit the field and decide to prove most of wrong. The coaching staff may be much better as a group than we could have possibly imagined. I just like the fact that Caserio decided he wasn’t going to run the same ol’ turd platoon back onto the field in 2021 and hope for different results. He has absolutely turned this roster over as much as he possibly could with the financial restraints he faced. I think he’s accomplished what I had hoped he would, which was dumping the old and bringing in a bunch of hungry (and possible) under achievers and gave them a big opportunity to prove they belong in the NFL.

I think they could get a surprise win and maybe another 2-3 wins on any given Sunday. Like I stated....competitive, entertaining, and finding solid pieces for 2022 would be fine with me.
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I just had an image of goats fainting... hilarious!
 
Lucky said:
No shade on the Texans. I think Caserio is doing exactly what he intends. He's a rookie GM, so he gets slack on his 1st draft day trade.

No, my ridicule is reserved for the Texan fans that are pushing the delusion that this year's team will be competitive, possibly a winning team. See, they want their cake and be able to eat it, too. If the Texans are terrible (and they will be), they can point to having no QB, no defense, no FAs worth spit, no draft choices until the 3rd round, rookie GM and Head Coach. All reasonable points.

But if the team is successful in some bizarro world scenario, they can say "I told you so!!!". Look, you can take your life savings and spend it on the lottery. If somehow you win, that doesn't obscure the fact that it was a stupid idea. No more fence straddling. Are the Texans going to be a .500 team, or are they going to be a bottom feeder. No more maybes, possibly, mights. Pick a side.
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My side leans towards suckage.

Main thing for this yr is to develop the young guys and see if Mills is the future. What their record is doesn't actually matter to me.
 
Lucky said:
You may need to make an appointment with your optometrist.


Did Bill O'Brien sneak back into the Texans draft room?
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Wow

Over giving up slightly more than the trade chart says so it enables Caserio to get the guy he wanted.
 
steelbtexan said:
They took a flier on Moncrief. It would be foolish to count on him.
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What you talkin about Willis? Donte is one of those fantastic 3rd RD WR draft picks. Donte and Nico have comparable measurables. Donte had twice as many reception and yards in college.
 
maverick512000 said:
Its not about fence sitting or giving the Texans excuses. Likewise I'm not trying to "have my cake and eat it to" and I sure don't care about I told you so's. I am just willing to admit that I don't know everything about football and that the people making these decisions know far more than me. For some strange reason you seem to only see things in black and white, I'm simply acknowledging the "any given Sunday" idea and that a team that actually does play hard can do better than anyone thought they had a right to. Do I think we are talking SB or playoffs, Hell no but a .500 record isn't that lofty an idea.

Do I think they will hit it, no not really, so there is your side if you truly want one picked, but likewise I won't be surprised if they do because there are so many unknowns with the team that no one can really predict anything with any kind of certainty. Can the line be better with Devlin gone, who will be the QBs, how big an impact will all these vets playing for one last chance, like Honey Badger a couple years ago, have, what kind of defense will Lovie be able to create and was the defense really that bad or did they just not care, what kind of HC will Culley be and what did he learn from Reid and Harbaugh? All these questions have to be answered before we know how bad or good the Texans will be and I'm willing to admit that I don't have the answers, do you?
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There it is. Some just don’t like to admit there’s 2 sides to a coin. I haven’t seen anyone predicting playoffs or even a .500 record.....& were serious. But I have seen people saying that they will be better than many think....including myself. What exactly does that mean? Who knows, but from my perspective it means that they’ll be competitive and in a lot of games late with a chance to win. The majority of them they’ll probably lose, but I believe they’ll win more than 4 games though and won’t be picking #1 overall like Lucky is predicting.

quite honestly I just think it’s dumb to be acting like you’re certain something is going to happen when you haven’t a clue of how this team with over 50% new faces on the roster and in the FO is going to do their thing. The colts were supposed to be terrible for the next 3-4 years after Luck retired. They had 1 down year...7-9 & were back in the playoffs the next year.
 
Texian said:
What you talkin about Willis? Donte is one of those fantastic 3rd RD WR draft picks. Donte and Nico have comparable measurables. Donte had twice as many reception and yards in college.
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With much better QB play.

Talent wise Moncrief and Collins are comparable.

Finding 5 yr a starting WR, Moncrief/Collins that's 1 of the 2 starters I hoped to for Caserio to find out of this draft.
 
Looking at the Texans X WR candidates...

Moncrief, Conley and Collins were all great height/weight/speed prospects coming out. The knock on both Moncrief and Conley however was they didn’t play to their size, particularly when fighting for jump balls.

This issue is why they fell to the 3rd round and why they haven’t played up to their physical abilities. If you’re 6’2” like Moncrief but play like 5’10” you’re not gonna go far in the NFL.

The reason Collins fell is because he fails to consistently create separation on short/intermediate routes. But he plays to every inch of his elite size and consistently wins 50/50 balls. His weaknesses can be coached up and mitigated. Moncrief’s always going to play like he is 5’10”.
 
Dejaview said:
Anyone predicting a winning or a competitive team already know your list of ”reasonable points”. They are too obvious and have already been discounted.
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By whom? And how?
Dejaview said:
To me their record this year pales with the importance of washing away the past.
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The record is important in 2021. It's important they have a poor record. There are no star players left on this team. Watson is as good as gone. Tunsil will be gone by the time this team is competitive. The Texans need to pick at the top of the draft for the next 2-3 years. The Niners, Bucs, Rams, and Browns used the draft to get better. Even the Bills had top 10 picks 3 years in a row. That's what Caserio is trying to do. He's using the back of the roster FA signings to camouflage his intentions from ownership. That's not difficult to do. Everyone else sees what is happening here. Or should.
 
Lucky said:
By whom? And how?

The record is important in 2021. It's important they have a poor record. There are no star players left on this team. Watson is as good as gone. Tunsil will be gone by the time this team is competitive. The Texans need to pick at the top of the draft for the next 2-3 years. The Niners, Bucs, Rams, and Browns used the draft to get better. Even the Bills had top 10 picks 3 years in a row. That's what Caserio is trying to do. He's using the back of the roster FA signings to camouflage his intentions from ownership. That's not difficult to do. Everyone else sees what is happening here. Or should.
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Lol you don't have a clue & you're too locked in on the micro part of the entire equation. The Browns, Bills & Bucs have more or less been picking at the top of the draft for 15+ years & it made very little difference in their fortunes as those top picks have eventually wanted out b/c the franchises were run so badly....or those picks just flamed out.......not unlike the situation the Texans were in pre-Caserio. The Rams....... same thing during the Jeff Fisher era. The niners post Harbaugh/Kaep stunk it up for a number of years with the Chip Kelley/Jim Tonsula eras + the Yorks were fighting amongst each other too, which is partly why Harbaugh was forced out. Furthermore the Bucs recent run had more to do with Brady coming there & him bringing his cache along with him....or did you forget that they jettisoned their recent top pick in Winston to bring Brady in? That likely doesn't work with any other player in the league except probably Rodgers...maybe Mahomes.

IOW's picking at the top of the draft so you can get premium talent is waaay secondary to having a stable organization with FO and Coaching staffs being able to work together to create a vision. & just using your examples above The key in stabilizing ALL of these organizations was getting competent FO and HC in place with some ownership "come to jesus" moments. Despite picking at the top of the draft for years, The Browns were largely terrible until Haslem himself got straight with that flying J lawsuit his company had been under & he finally got competent GM'ing and HC'ing in place starting with doing an about face on Freddie Kitchens. Same for the Bills. They finally stabilized the FO & coaching staff with Brandon Beane & Sean McDermott in 2017 & got some momentum going in building out the vision together. The Niners did THE EXACT SAME THING THE EXACT SAME YEAR when they brought in Lynch and Shanahan in 2017. The Rams already had a good GM in place but he made a horrible decision at the outset by hiring Jeff Fisher (or good decision depending on how you look at it as they were in transition from STL to LA)..but he eventually corrected it when he brought in McVay.

Bringing this full circle, i think the Texans by bringing in Caserio & letting him bring in his guy that he'll be able to work with well in Culley, I believe the toughest part is already done. & because DW4 will eventually be traded.........presumably for very good capital, the importance as you say of having a poor record is not nearly as important. Once he's traded we will almost assuredly have multiple picks in the 1st round at least 1 year & as you know those picks can be used to move wherever in the draft b/c more important than having "star players" everywhere is having guys who fit & can work together & that includes the FO.

The 1 year contracts are being used as flexibility. Next year we'll likely have more cap space & flexibility than everyone in the league just due to all of these 1 year contracts coming off the books & us being able to purge a few more lopsided contracts (Mercy, Cobb). And at that point, we'll also have our full compliment of picks + what we'll get for DW4.
 
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Mr teX said:
Lol you don't have a clue & you're too locked in on the micro part of the entire equation. The Browns, Bills & Bucs have more or less been picking at the top of the draft for 15+ years & it made very little difference in their fortunes as those top picks have eventually wanted out b/c the franchises were run so badly....or those picks just flamed out.......not unlike the situation the Texans were in pre-Caserio. The Rams....... same thing during the Jeff Fisher era. The niners post Harbaugh/Kaep stunk it up for a number of years with the Chip Kelley/Jim Tonsula eras + the Yorks were fighting amongst each other too, which is partly why Harbaugh was forced out. Furthermore the Bucs recent run had more to do with Brady coming there & him bringing his cache along with him....or did you forget that they jettisoned their recent top pick in Winston to bring Brady in? That likely doesn't work with any other player in the league except probably Rodgers...maybe Mahomes.

IOW's picking at the top of the draft so you can get premium talent is waaay secondary to having a stable organization with FO and Coaching staffs being able to work together to create a vision. & just using your examples above The key in stabilizing ALL of these organizations was getting competent FO and HC in place with some ownership "come to jesus" moments. Despite picking at the top of the draft for years, The Browns were largely terrible until Haslem himself got straight with that flying J lawsuit his company had been under & he finally got competent GM'ing and HC'ing in place starting with doing an about face on Freddie Kitchens. Same for the Bills. They finally stabilized the FO & coaching staff with Brandon Beane & Sean McDermott in 2017 & got some momentum going in building out the vision together. The Niners did THE EXACT SAME THING THE EXACT SAME YEAR when they brought in Lynch and Shanahan in 2017. The Rams already had a good GM in place but he made a horrible decision at the outset by hiring Jeff Fisher (or good decision depending on how you look at it as they were in transition from STL to LA)..but he eventually corrected it when he brought in McVay.

Bringing this full circle, i think the Texans by bringing in Caserio & letting him bring in his guy that he'll be able to work with well in Culley, I believe the toughest part is already done. & because DW4 will eventually be traded.........presumably for very good capital, the importance as you say of having a poor record is not nearly as important. Once he's traded we will almost assuredly have multiple picks in the 1st round at least 1 year & as you know those picks can be used to move wherever in the draft b/c more important than having "star players" everywhere is having guys who fit & can work together & that includes the FO.

The 1 year contracts are being used as flexibility. Next year we'll likely have more cap space & flexibility than everyone in the league just due to all of these 1 year contracts coming off the books & us being able to purge a few more lopsided contracts (Mercy, Cobb). And at that point, we'll also have our full compliment of picks + what we'll get for DW4.
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Good post and perspective.
 
Texian said:
This is exactly why I have that gut feeling that Caserio will get short changed when he trades DW4.
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It doesn't matter what he gets for DW4, it wont be enough for some. I'm hoping he gets the equivalent of two 1st rd picks for DW4. I'm expecting a 1st and a 3rd in the 2022 draft and maybe a 2023 2nd. Pervs aren't worth much on the trade market.
 
steelbtexan said:
It doesn't matter what he gets for DW4, it wont be enough for some. I'm hoping he gets the equivalent of two 1st rd picks for DW4. I'm expecting a 1st and a 3rd in the 2022 draft and maybe a 2023 2nd. Pervs aren't worth much on the trade market.
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We shall see won't we.
 
steelbtexan said:
It doesn't matter what he gets for DW4, it wont be enough for some. I'm hoping he gets the equivalent of two 1st rd picks for DW4. I'm expecting a 1st and a 3rd in the 2022 draft and maybe a 2023 2nd. Pervs aren't worth much on the trade market.
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You have really fallen in love with Nick Caserio.
 
Texian said:
You have really fallen in love with Nick Caserio.
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No I haven't at all.

I'm just willing to wait until he has a full compliment of draft picks and some cap space before I BEGIN to pass judgement. In fact I'm willing to give Caserio 2 more drafts before my opinions start to firmly take shape.

You've already made a decision after 1 draft in which Caserio didn't have 1st or 2nd rd draft picks, in which he took a possible QB of the future and what's hopefully a starting WR. What more would you have done with such little draft capital? Maybe where we differ is 1. You wanted a complete tear down, which I didn't want because I value veteran leadership more than you do. Although I did want Caserio to trade all of his 2021 draft picks for 2022 draft picks since 2022 is a more talented draft. 2. I have no issues with the Mills pick and hope Caserio keeps swinging to try to find HIS QB of the future. (Kinda the Anti RS)

Also if you think DW4's going to bring alot in trade then you're fooling yourself. I would be happy if Caserio got the equivalent of two 1sts for DW4 and mentally I've prepared myself for the inevitability of he's going to be traded for less. If Caserio gets more than two 1sts for DW4 I will be doing backflips.
 
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