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[Pick 89] Nico Collins WR Michigan

Number19

Hall of Fame
Really havent seen anyone left in the draft that would be a big help on defense. Like @Mr teX said could be they think some vets will go cheap. I'm thinking more they are gearing up for a heavy 2022 defense draft.
Only 4 DT's have been taken so far. I'd be looking at Bobby Brown in the 5th. Also I'd be looking at SAM LB Charles Snowden.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Edward? He'll know every secret play...
LB- Charles Snowden (VA) measures in at: 6’-6.25” @ 240 lbs / 34” Arms with 82.25” Wingspan / 21 Reps 225 lbs / Injured Ankle No 40 Time

The ankle injury could drop him to RD5 and maybe even RD6. That would be great for the Texans since they’d have no immediate needs for his services.....even though he’d probably be good to go by mid-season. This is a low-risk high-reward pick.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Only 4 DT's have been taken so far. I'd be looking at Bobby Brown in the 5th. Also I'd be looking at SAM LB Charles Snowden.
I think the Texans have two 5th rd picks.

I would love to see Brown/Snowden be the 5th rd picks. I would trade up into the 4th for Ellerson Smith or Cox.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
LB- Charles Snowden (VA) measures in at: 6’-6.25” @ 240 lbs / 34” Arms with 82.25” Wingspan / 21 Reps 225 lbs / Injured Ankle No 40 Time

The ankle injury could drop him to RD5 and maybe even RD6. That would be great for the Texans since they’d have no immediate needs for his services.....even though he’d probably be good to go by mid-season. This is a low-risk high-reward pick.

I was looking at Elerson Smith Northern Iowa.
6'6" 252 lbs 34" arms 10 1/4 Hands

Or

Daviyon Nixon Iowa DT:
6'3" 313 lbs 35 1/8" Arms and 9 1/4" Hands
 
You post the most disturbing gifs always.
To be fair Ric Flair is awesome, I’m just not sure what he or the gif have to do with this or most other conversations not about Tom Brady.

Now back to the topic, I get what people are saying about there still being Defense players, of course there are, but my point is that I don’t see any that could really move the bar while Collins MIGHT give us a WR1 in a couple of years which ties in well with the idea of a rebuild.

I’m still thinking Lovie wants to see if the defense last year was really that bad or if it was lack of coaching/motivation. I know his last several years in the NFL were bad but that was as a HC, his years as a DC he took the Rams from almost last to a game stopping D in just one year.

Kelly, on the other hand, is going to need all the help he can get particularly if he doesn’t have Watson to fall back on.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
To be fair Ric Flair is awesome, I’m just not sure what he or the gif have to do with this or most other conversations not about Tom Brady.

Now back to the topic, I get what people are saying about there still being Defense players, of course there are, but my point is that I don’t see any that could really move the bar while Collins MIGHT give us a WR1 in a couple of years which ties in well with the idea of a rebuild.

I’m still thinking Lovie wants to see if the defense last year was really that bad or if it was lack of coaching/motivation. I know his last several years in the NFL were bad but that was as a HC, his years as a DC he took the Rams from almost last to a game stopping D in just one year.

Kelly, on the other hand, is going to need all the help he can get particularly if he doesn’t have Watson to fall back on.

Lovie will have quite a few new players to work with since Nick brought in a lot of players on that side of the ball. That's probably the reason why we went offense with these two picks.

People also needs to understand this is probably plan D since Watson shenanigans screwed them over.
 
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WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
He opted out and skipped the 2020 season.
Wait what? He didn't play '20 and we traded that much to get him?
He didn't play in 20?
Smart kid. MICH played 6 games, he stayed healthy, and you know you're going in the 2nd/3rd
No, he opted out because of covid I would assume.
Then chalk me down as wanting someone else.
Just to clear the air on Collins.....he didn't "opt out". The Big Ten cancelled the season, was adamant about not playing, and was at the forefront of shutting down the college season. If you followed CFB this year you are aware of what I'm talking about. Michigan was one of the universities in the Big Ten leading that charge.

When the BIG season got shut down and it was clear the conference/school were against playing, Collins took money from an agent. When the season restarted, he had already spent some of that money and was not eligible. Thus he "opted out".

Guy was a baller and team leader at UM. Great pick.
 

NastyNate

I go kerplunk
I'm actually okay with this pick assuming he becomes a decent posession receiver. Time will tell. My only concern is how limited we already were in draft capital.
 

Mangler

All Pro
These picks are fine but is our plan to not field a defense?
This wasn’t exactly a deep class for defense. I’m good with letting the offense come together through the draft, undrafted free agents, trade deadline, and just have a go (on defense) next year when we will finally have a 1st and 2nd round pick. Maybe even multiple 1sts and 2nds through a Watson trade.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
There’s so many needs on this team, and the pick you make can only address one need at a time. Not going to freak out that this position was taken and that one wasn’t.

I don’t have an issue with the Collins pick here. WR is a need. Not particularly thrilled that he hasn’t played a real game in a while, so we’ll see how that goes.

Collins seems to have good speed and good hands from what I’m reading. He can win 50/50 balls and tracks it deep well. There’s some separation concerns in the intermediate, and his routes could use some fine tuning, but I believe that coaching can help there. Just hope we have it.

What I don’t like is the price paid to get him. This team is just not in a position to be throwing what little capital they have to move up. Even if they eventually get a good return from Watson. I thought gathering more picks would be the smarter thing to do, to where you could do a lot of damage next year.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I like the player and addressing the position. Collins and the addition of Chris Conley in FA give the Texans two big bodied extremely athletic WRs who can overpower smaller DBs and have the speed to win deep. I wonder if Collins would have been taken higher had he played this season and shown improvement in his route running. Or if he would've been taken in the same position or lower had he not shown improvement... so goes the NFL draft crapshoot!

But I like the measurables and the talent at a position of need. Lots of competition in the WR room.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
I think the Texans have two 5th rd picks.

I would love to see Brown/Snowden be the 5th rd picks. I would trade up into the 4th for Ellerson Smith or Cox.
Didn't they give up their 5(158) pick, along with the 2022 Rams 4, to trade up into the 3rd to select Collins?
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
There’s so many needs on this team, and the pick you make can only address one need at a time. Not going to freak out that this position was taken and that one wasn’t.

I don’t have an issue with the Collins pick here. WR is a need. Not particularly thrilled that he hasn’t played a real game in a while, so we’ll see how that goes.

Collins seems to have good speed and good hands from what I’m reading. He can win 50/50 balls and tracks it deep well. There’s some separation concerns in the intermediate, and his routes could use some fine tuning, but I believe that coaching can help there. Just hope we have it.

What I don’t like is the price paid to get him. This team is just not in a position to be throwing what little capital they have to move up. Even if they eventually get a good return from Watson. I thought gathering more picks would be the smarter thing to do, to where you could do a lot of damage next year.
The Collins trade only cost us one, of two, 5th round picks, and it wasn't our own, it was 5(158), THIS YEAR. This isn't a high cost for a trade up if Collins was the WR they wanted.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
The Collins trade only cost us one, of two, 5th round picks, and it wasn't our own, it was 5(158), THIS YEAR. This isn't a high cost for a trade up if Collins was the WR they wanted.
What is a high cost for somebody you want? The Texans wanted Tunsil. Was that cost not high?

If that's the guy they want, that's fine. But you can't just throw cost and value out the window. I'm sure Collins is not the only player they want, so are we going to see more picks flying away?
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
What is a high cost for somebody you want? The Texans wanted Tunsil. Was that cost not high?

If that's the guy they want, that's fine. But you can't just throw cost and value out the window. I'm sure Collins is not the only player they want, so are we going to see more picks flying away?
There is guideline called the Trade Chart. The Texans moved up 19 positions, 9 of which were 3rd round compensatory picks. I'm unable to do the math at this time, but you get the drift. You can also compare against other trades, of which there were several. Pre-draft I had read the Texans were interested in a WR, so the cost for moving up 19 slots seem reasonable, even without doing the math.
 
What is a high cost for somebody you want? The Texans wanted Tunsil. Was that cost not high?

If that's the guy they want, that's fine. But you can't just throw cost and value out the window. I'm sure Collins is not the only player they want, so are we going to see more picks flying away?
At the same time is it worth the risk on losing out on the one guy you want just so you can draft two guys that their best quality is that they are still on the board? Can you really say you’ve filled two positions of need if the guys you draft just happens to play those positions?

I get what you are saying but IMO it’s better to get the one guy you believe will be a key part of your team vs getting two guys that might be most useful on the training field.

As for Tunsil yes the cost was high but it was only to high in hindsight. At the time and using the best information available it was right on price point. By the same same token suppose Collins becomes our new WR1 or even a solid WR2. In that case giving up a 4th and 5th was a steal.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What is a high cost for somebody you want? The Texans wanted Tunsil. Was that cost not high?

If that's the guy they want, that's fine. But you can't just throw cost and value out the window. I'm sure Collins is not the only player they want, so are we going to see more picks flying away?
I didn't think the cost was that high to go up and get a guy they wanted. With that said, there's no way I would've given up any 2022 picks.

This is really about quality of picks vs quantity of picks.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
There is guideline called the Trade Chart. The Texans moved up 19 positions, 9 of which were 3rd round compensatory picks. I'm unable to do the math at this time, but you get the drift. You can also compare against other trades, of which there were several. Pre-draft I had read the Texans were interested in a WR, so the cost for moving up 19 slots seem reasonable, even without doing the math.
The trade chart is just a guideline, and using it is a good starting point, but you've also got to take other things into account like the status of your team, draft capital available, and things of that nature. Then again, the team you're dealing with probably doesn't care about that and if they go strictly by the chart then I suppose you have to follow suit if you want to make a deal. Still doesn't mean it's not costly.

I guess if the Texans were willing to do what it took to move up 19 spots, then they must really really want that guy. Just not something I would have done, in the situation they're in, and especially when I feel like they might have wasted one with the Mills pick.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The trade chart is just a guideline, and using it is a good starting point, but you've also got to take other things into account like the status of your team, draft capital available, and things of that nature. Then again, the team you're dealing with probably doesn't care about that and if they go strictly by the chart then I suppose you have to follow suit if you want to make a deal. Still doesn't mean it's not costly.

I guess if the Texans were willing to do what it took to move up 19 spots, then they must really really want that guy. Just not something I would have done, in the situation they're in, and especially when I feel like they might have wasted one with the Mills pick.
So this really comes back to the Mills pick.

Lets talk about this in the Mills thread, but what dont you like about Mills? I'm on the fence with the Mills pick and cant wait for training camp to see what Mills has got.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
I didn't think the cost was that high to go up and get a guy they wanted. With that said, there's no way I would've given up any 2022 picks.

This is really about quality of picks vs quantity of picks.
Not picking on you but I’m just trying to think about this trade. Had we not given the 2022 pick we would be looking at in 2021 giving up a fifth to move up from a fourth to a third which is that fulcrum where picks start getting more iffy. Would you take that offer if you were the Rams?
 

Tex1983

Practice Squad
Not sure about this concern, our 3rd wr picks consistantly turn to aces. Between braxton miller and keke coutee, this kid has good company!

Seriously though, i hope having that year off doesnt hinder him too much.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I didn't think the cost was that high to go up and get a guy they wanted. With that said, there's no way I would've given up any 2022 picks.

This is really about quality of picks vs quantity of picks.
I’m leaning with the statement one of the other poster’s made, Caserio made the move with the knowledge that the eventual trade of Watson would replenish the later 2022 picks lost this season....and not to mention the RD1 and RD2 picks gained for 2022 & 2023. Collins will get his final CFB season on the NFL field of play....essentially, OJT so he’ll be the finished product by 2022. Maybe 2022 see’s WR1- Collins, WR2- Conley, WR/SWR1- Cooks.....that could be pretty special. Get the TE’s involved in 2022.....TE1- The New Jordan (Brian), TE2- Jordan Aikens, and TE- Kahale Warring.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The chiefs back in 2008 were said to have had 1 of the best drafts in recent memory having had multiple picks in 4 of the 7 rounds including 2 in the 1st & 3 in the 3rd...2 picks in the top 15 overall. Glenn Dorsey, Brandon Albert...Jamal Charles, Brandon Flowers headlined that draft for them. 3 years later, only 2 of those guys turned out to be anything more than average.

most of you guys bitching about giving up too much to move make the faulty assumption that these draft picks are sure things. Trying to address the problem with volume like your chances of hitting on a pick are any better.

So What is really the cost of moving up for a guy you really want? And what’s really the difference in a bunch of draft picks you pick as BPA becoming busts vs 1 that you really covet busting? The penalty is the same either way.

Quality beats quantity everyday of the week....especially on sundays.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I like your post. When we prove we can actually make quality picks I'll agree with you all day everyday.
Your post highlights the inherent quandry. For those who are besides themselves about this team throwing draft capital away, what good does it do to have it if you already don't believe the FO can make good solid quality picks with them? Gotta believe in 1 or the other.
 
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powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Your post highlights the inherent quandry. For those who are besides themselves about this team throwing draft capital away, what good does it do to have it if you already don't believe the FO can make good solid quality picks with them? Gotta believe in 1 or the other.

And I always assume the worst.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
I gotcha..My approach is you give the benefit of the doubt until its apparent that the wheels have come off.

Fair. It is a new gm and coaching staff. The talent is so bad on this team though I suspect a 4 win (at best) season.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Fair. It is a new gm and coaching staff. The talent is so bad on this team though I suspect a 4 win (at best) season.
That's fair and i see alot of people predicting that based on a number of things...its really only been bad news coming out of Kirby since BoB was fired. The absolute lone bright spot was the hiring of Caserio.....& even that for some shouldn't even be a bright spot b/c of the Easterby & NE ties.

Still i think a few of you guys will be surprised next year. I'm not predicting playoffs or anything, but i think they'll be better on both sides of the ball than the talent indicates and everyone thinks they will.

Its never hard to improve from being straight garbage to being respectable but respectable to contender? That's infinitely tougher & that's where this team has traditionally stalled out at under multiple regimes.
 


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