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[Pick 67] Davis Mills QB Stanford

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Watson was on fire his rookie season too. The youngster went toe to toe with some heavy weights. And a few of these same members were extra extra critical of his play. Had the nerve to tell us we were using excuses to why we lost some of those close games. But now they’re using the exact same supposedly excuses for Mills. Gotta love it Earl, lol gotta love it!
Watson was picked 55 picks ahead of Mills and had a ton more experience. Shouldn't expectations be a bit higher? I don't recall anyone being over-critical of him as a rookie... that came in his 3rd year
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Dude Watson is still on this roster and will forever be talked about on this forum and many other Texans forums. So no I’m not putting it to rest, just like you won’t either. And like I mentioned before let’s evaluate every player equally verse cherry picking things to fit our agenda/narrative. The same energy you put out during Watson’s rookie campaign, Mills should be getting it to. Why because he’s a starting quarterback in the NFL playing for the Texans. I remember you telling folks who brought up the offensive line woes and the terrible running back production, that that was excuses. Now you’re using the same freaking excuses. Why because Mills is a player you like.
This obviously touched a nerve, sorry about this.

If you recall, I wanted Derrick to sit his entire rookie yr because I didn't want him to get hurt behind that terrible OL. I wanted Mills to play this yr because he had such little experience playing in college and thought he needs the experience.

Like I said Derrick had a better rookie yr, but that was to be expected. (3 yrs of college starting experience vs 14 games of starting experience) Mills has done some good things too considering the OL he's playing behind. Things like the 3rd highest completion % since 1970 (Behind Dak and Mac) and great RZ efficiency. So while Mills hasn't been as good as Derrick's rookie yr, he hasn't been chopped liver either behind an equally terrible OL.

Right now we dont know how Mills career will turnout. Just like we didn't know how Derrick's career was going to turnout at that point in his career. (We still dont know how his career is going to turnout. Ironic) So there are some paralells.

Derrick wont be a Texan much longer one way or the other and that will be a good thing. Maybe then some can get over the heartbreak of losing their favorite player and can move on. (Not directed at you.)

After Derrick's either traded or in jail at that time the franchise will either be in great shape, with extra draft picks and cap space. If he goes to jail then the Texans will still atleast have a mountain of cash to spend on FA's to supplement a young roster that should have 4 or 5 star level players on the roster, plus the 2023 draft which is when I've always believed that if the Texans get anything for Derrick the returns will be from that draft. I hope I'm wrong and if found innocent they can get a return in the 2022 draft. But with how slow the justice system moves I really cant see things happening this fast.
 

vtech9

Veteran
I liked Watson, thought he was getting better. Still had room to grow.
I liked WD40s potential, but I said from the beginning that he needed to learn to take what the defense was giving him instead of going for it all every time. He only hit the check down after he had given up on everything else. I still hadn't given up hope on him though. I was hoping a new head coach and OC would be able to fix his issues. Unfortunately, the new head coach couldn't fix the non-football issues WD40 had.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Watson was picked 55 picks ahead of Mills and had a ton more experience. Shouldn't expectations be a bit higher? I don't recall anyone being over-critical of him as a rookie... that came in his 3rd year
No, why because he’s a NFL starter. Lance only played 19 games. But who really cares, they’re in the NFL now right. I’m solely talking about the NFL.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Watson was on fire his rookie season too. The youngster went toe to toe with some heavy weights. And a few of these same members were extra extra critical of his play. Had the nerve to tell us we were using excuses to why we lost some of those close games. But now they’re using the exact same supposedly excuses for Mills. Gotta love it Earl, lol gotta love it!
Not me and not his rookie yr. After the game I went to in Foxboro I thought I missed on my eval of Derrick. In he middle of yr 3, about 32 starts I could see he wasn't going to change his selfish style of play and knew they couldn't win a championship with him at QB. It's why I thought they should've waited out the 5th yr option before trading him. I had no way of knowing his selfishness on the field extended to his off field activities also.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
This obviously touched a nerve, sorry about this.

If you recall, I wanted Derrick to sit his entire rookie yr because I didn't want him to get hurt behind that terrible OL. I wanted Mills to play this yr because he had such little experience playing in college and thought he needs the experience.

Like I said Derrick had a better rookie yr, but that was to be expected. (3 yrs of college starting experience vs 14 games of starting experience) Mills has done some good things too considering the OL he's playing behind. Things like the 3rd highest completion % since 1970 (Behind Dak and Mac) and great RZ efficiency. So while Mills hasn't been as good as Derrick's rookie yr, he hasn't been chopped liver either behind an equally terrible OL.

Right now we dont know how Mills career will turnout. Just like we didn't know how Derrick's career was going to turnout at that point in his career. (We still dont know how his career is going to turnout. Ironic) So there are some paralells.

Derrick wont be a Texan much longer one way or the other and that will be a good thing. Maybe then some can get over the heartbreak of losing their favorite player and can move on. (Not directed at you.)

After Derrick's either traded or in jail at that time the franchise will either be in great shape, with extra draft picks and cap space. If he goes to jail then the Texans will still atleast have a mountain of cash to spend on FA's to supplement a young roster that should have 4 or 5 star level players on the roster, plus the 2023 draft which is when I've always believed that if the Texans get anything for Derrick the returns will be from that draft. I hope I'm wrong and if found innocent they can get a return in the 2022 draft. But with how slow the justice system moves I really cant see things happening this fast.
No you didn’t, just want people to keep it 100.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I honestly don't know since I didn't watch any games last season. However, from looking at his stats, I thought he might have become a better QB, so I was looking forward to the new Coach and OC coming in to move us forward, but..... then all of the bad stuff about WD40 came out.
Not watching last yr was a good move.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I liked Watson, thought he was getting better. Still had room to grow.
Of course he had room to grow

The fact that he was making some of the same mistakes as a 4th yr guy that he was as a rookie said that improvement wasn't happening and I'm not saying he is a bad QB. He's just not the elite QB many on here think he is.
 
Watson was on fire his rookie season too. The youngster went toe to toe with some heavy weights. And a few of these same members were extra extra critical of his play. Had the nerve to tell us we were using excuses to why we lost some of those close games. But now they’re using the exact same supposedly excuses for Mills. Gotta love it Earl, lol gotta love it!
TB I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure you are combining history. Yes @steelbtexan and a few others did get hyper critical of Watson in later years but that was after his rookie year. Watson’s rookie year I don’t recall anyone saying he was playing bad. In fact pretty much everyone I can recall talk about that year around here has said if he hadn’t gotten hurt we would have at least made the AFCC game.

The only thing I really remember some saying is that they would have rather have Mahomes and frankly knowing what we know now I very much wish we had Mahomes to. I’d rather deal with a QB’s diva family than one with 20+ sexual assault accusers.

No one has said that Mills is having a better rookie year than Watson. We can debate why that is but it’s still not something being said.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Watson was on fire his rookie season too. The youngster went toe to toe with some heavy weights. And a few of these same members were extra extra critical of his play. Had the nerve to tell us we were using excuses to why we lost some of those close games. But now they’re using the exact same supposedly excuses for Mills. Gotta love it Earl, lol gotta love it!
I agree with @Texansballer74 that many previous hypercritical posts now appear hypocritical because what was considered excuses or ignored are now being posted as issues that impacts a young QB's development.

Going forward, when reading the game day or this thread, I'm just going to keep liquor and BioFreeze nearby. I'll be using liquor for the losing and BioFreeze for the whiplash from reading the 180-degree perspective on the same issues and the root causes that have been here since the BOB era. :shades:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I agree with @Texansballer74 that many previous hypercritical posts now appear hypocritical because what was considered excuses or ignored are now being posted as issues that impacts a young QB's development.

Going forward, when reading the game day or this thread, I'm just going to keep liquor and BioFreeze nearby. I'll be using liquor for the losing and BioFreeze for the whiplash from reading the 180-degree perspective on the same issues and the root causes that have been here since the BOB era. :shades:
All of these issues really go back to 1 thing for both QB's, particularly in their rookie yrs. Bad OL play and it has continued throughout the entire BOB regime and into the Culley regime. Yes I do know that some of the issues have to do with scheme. But talent is a bigger issue. IMHO
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Actually, we went into the 4th quarter down only 3 and had the opportunity to tie the game, but we missed the fg. It was only later, after the deep pass to Cooks was called back because of the penalty, that things began going South.
That's when it began going south? They had 8 possessions before that missed FG drive, for 139 total yards, and 5 of those 8 drives were 3 and out. I'd argue it started south and stayed there.
 

Earl34

All Pro
That's when it began going south? They had 8 possessions before that missed FG drive, for 139 total yards, and 5 of those 8 drives were 3 and out. I'd argue it started south and stayed there.
Thank you!!! The focus has been on the bad calls or missed FG. Why is the lack of production on the other drives being ignored?
  • 5 plays, 5 yards
  • 4 plays, 8 yards
  • 6 plays, 9 yards
  • 4 plays, 8 yards
  • 16 plays, 85 yards (TD)
  • 4 plays, -2 yards
  • 6 plays, 16 yards (INT)
  • 5 plays, 0 yards
  • 11 plays, 17 yards (Missed FG)
  • 9 plays, 14 yards
  • 5 plays, 8 yards
  • 7 plays, 57 yards
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Thank you!!! The focus has been on the bad calls. But what about the other drives?
  • 5 plays, 5 yards
  • 4 plays, 8 yards
  • 6 plays, 9 yards
  • 4 plays, 8 yards
  • 16 plays, 85 yards (TD)
  • 4 plays, -2 yards
  • 6 plays, 16 yards (INT)
  • 5 plays, 0 yards
  • 11 plays, 17 yards
  • 9 plays, 14 yards
  • 5 plays, 8 yards
  • 7 plays, 57 yards
Only one sustained drive that resulted in a touchdown. But we’re dishing out a grade of B for Mills play. I’m the first half after that long drive, I said Mills was playing solid. After that drive he was not good. Yes the official and the NFL robbed us of a big time play in which Mills threw in double coverage. Cooks went and got that. Oh but it would’ve been offsetting penalties, therefore that play didn’t count. On the grand scheme of things that offense grade all around should be a F, maybe a D.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
That's when it began going south? They had 8 possessions before that missed FG drive, for 139 total yards, and 5 of those 8 drives were 3 and out. I'd argue it started south and stayed there.
Call it whatever you will. The simple fact is, we were still in the game, with a chance to win, going into the 4th quarter. We were a 4 win team with limited talent, going against a team with better talent and in contention for a playoff spot. We were expected to lose and we were still in the game going into the 4th quarter.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Call it whatever you will. The simple fact is, we were still in the game, with a chance to win, going into the 4th quarter. We were a 4 win team with limited talent, going against a team with better talent and in contention for a playoff spot. We were expected to lose and we were still in the game going into the 4th quarter.
Thanks to the heart of this team, yes the defense. Kelly and this offense failed this team yet again.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Thank you!!! The focus has been on the bad calls. But what about the other drives?
  • 5 plays, 5 yards
  • 4 plays, 8 yards
  • 6 plays, 9 yards
  • 4 plays, 8 yards
  • 16 plays, 85 yards (TD)
  • 4 plays, -2 yards
  • 6 plays, 16 yards (INT)
  • 5 plays, 0 yards
  • 11 plays, 17 yards (Missed FG)
  • 9 plays, 14 yards
  • 5 plays, 8 yards
  • 7 plays, 57 yards
I don't know where you got those numbers from, but according to NFL Gamebook, they're not right. The yards are, but the number of plays isn't.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Call it whatever you will. The simple fact is, we were still in the game, with a chance to win, going into the 4th quarter. We were a 4 win team with limited talent, going against a team with better talent and in contention for a playoff spot. We were expected to lose and we were still in the game going into the 4th quarter.
I'll call it what it was, thank you. An offensive shitshow, which it has been for most of the season, and a 16 point loss.

And let's not forget that better talented team in contention for a playoff spot also had a rookie QB making his 2nd ever start. They were probably going to be a little slow going. And that 2 start rookie played better than our 10 start rookie, but hey, he was 3rd overall, so I guess that was expected too. Man, the ******* excuses!!
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
blah blah blah

Mills is our QB and will be next year as well. Get over it. LOL

(No bets on 2023.)
Have no issue with that. They're not ready to spend assets on QB right now. Mills for '22 is how I'd play it too.
And Culley will be our HC and Tim Kelly will remain as OC.
I can't see any reason whatsoever to keep Kelly. The only reason he's here to begin with is that they thought that's what Watson wanted. His OB offense is the worst on the planet. I think he's fired on Monday.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If they are happy with where Davis Mills is they'll credit Kelly & keep him.
I hope they promote Pep to OC.
I'll call it what it was, thank you. An offensive shitshow, which it has been for most of the season, and a 16 point loss.

And let's not forget that better talented team in contention for a playoff spot also had a rookie QB making his 2nd ever start. They were probably going to be a little slow going. And that 2 start rookie played better than our 10 start rookie, but hey, he was 3rd overall, so I guess that was expected too. Man, the ******* excuses!!
What was the ypc in this game?
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
From the drive summary screen on NFL.COM. Maybe GameBook includes the plays with penalties.
Here's what the breakdown of the drives should be;

  • 3 plays, 5 yards, punt
  • 3 plays, 8 yards, punt
  • 5 plays, 9 yards, punt
  • 3 plays, 8 yards, punt
  • 14 plays, 85 yards, TD
  • 3 plays, -2 yards, punt
  • 5 plays, 16 yards, INT
  • 3 plays, 0 yards, punt
  • 8 plays, 17 yards, missed FG
  • 6 plays, 14 yards, punt
  • 4 plays, 8 yards, downs
  • 6 plays, 57 yards, end of game
I don't know how your source has 5 plays on the 1st drive. Even if you include the punt as a play, which it isn't, there were only 4. No penalties, nothing.
  • 1st & 10 - Burkhead up the middle for -4
  • 2nd & 14 - Mills pass to Burkhead for 6
  • 3rd & 8 - Mills pass to Burkhead for 3
  • 4th & 5 - Punt
That was the 1st possession.

If they are happy with where Davis Mills is they'll credit Kelly & keep him.
Then this franchise is more doomed than even the most pessimistic of us thought.

If they're happy with Mills, they'll get a real OC in here to show him what a real NFL offense is and help him develop. They keep Kelly then Mills ain't the future. But even if they don't think Mills is the future, this offense is dead last, or near it, in just about every offensive category there is. How they keep this guy on is beyond comprehension. Like I said, Kelly was the only one kept on, and that was because they thought it would be good for Watson. That never materialized, and never will, so no reason on earth to keep Kelly on.

I think he will be let go on Monday, or shortly thereafter.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Kelly is not just responsible for Mills. The Texans are dead last in rushing. They are last in Total Offense. There isn't a football reason to keep Kelly.
They'll probably draft 2 IOL & sign two in FA. I bet they are looking at it as a talent issue & not a coaching issue. Kelly's probably going to be our next HC.


Easterby
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Have no issue with that. They're not ready to spend assets on QB right now. Mills for '22 is how I'd play it too.


I can't see any reason whatsoever to keep Kelly. The only reason he's here to begin with is that they thought that's what Watson wanted. His OB offense is the worst on the planet. I think he's fired on Monday.
We'll see. And then when Culley is let go, will the new HC want to bring in his own OC? So we could have 3 OC in 3 years. No, I'm thinking Culley and Kelly are a linked pair.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
We'll see. And then when Culley is let go, will the new HC want to bring in his own OC? So we could have 3 OC in 3 years. No, I'm thinking Culley and Kelly are a linked pair.

I get the 3 OCs in 3 years thing. But if the Texans don't think their future QB is on the roster yet, does that really matter?

And the new HC will be McDaniels, who just might be the OC as well.
 
Have no issue with that. They're not ready to spend assets on QB right now. Mills for '22 is how I'd play it too.


I can't see any reason whatsoever to keep Kelly. The only reason he's here to begin with is that they thought that's what Watson wanted. His OB offense is the worst on the planet. I think he's fired on Monday.
Overall agree but I don’t think he’s fired till the off season unless Caserio already has his replacement lined up. If not he can wait till the off season and possibly have more choices.
 
We'll see. And then when Culley is let go, will the new HC want to bring in his own OC? So we could have 3 OC in 3 years. No, I'm thinking Culley and Kelly are a linked pair.
People keep working under this idea that Culley is just a bridge coach but personally I don’t buy that. They spent to long looking to get a bridge coach and if all they wanted was a cheerleader they could have hired the first guy off the street and called it a day.

I could very well be wrong but I think Culley is here longer than many think he will be and that might be a bad thing. Really if we hire a good OC and Lovie keeps making chicken salad with the defense then really all we need is Culley to learn game manage. We got way to use to the HC trying to be the OC as well.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Overall agree but I don’t think he’s fired till the off season unless Caserio already has his replacement lined up. If not he can wait till the off season and possibly have more choices.
I think that's why he's saying Monday. Texans offseason starts Monday.

Let him go early, give him as much time as they can so he can latch on to another team.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I get the 3 OCs in 3 years thing. But if the Texans don't think their future QB is on the roster yet, does that really matter?

And the new HC will be McDaniels, who just might be the OC as well.
Even if they do the 3 OC in 3 yr thing I dont think it will hinder Mills development. Hopefully they will promote Pep to keep continuity and bring in McDaniels in the 2023 offseason. Then keep Pep as OC to keep working with Mills although McDaniels will probably be the playcaller.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Even if they do the 3 OC in 3 yr thing I dont think it will hinder Mills development. Hopefully they will promote Pep to keep continuity and bring in McDaniels in the 2023 offseason. Then keep Pep as OC to keep working with Mills although McDaniels will probably be the playcaller.
Why are they waiting so long to bring McDaniels in? Why didn't they bring him in 2021.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Why are they waiting so long to bring McDaniels in? Why didn't they bring him in 2021.
Gotta go through a couple of yrs of the rebuild and get some talent in place before McDaniels takes over. This draft and after the 2022 season McDaniels takes over and gets the 2023 draft talent to work with too. By 2024 I expect a contender. Particularly if Mills proves to be the answer at QB.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
No, why because he’s a NFL starter. Lance only played 19 games. But who really cares, they’re in the NFL now right. I’m solely talking about the NFL.
So you don't expect more from a high first round pick than you do a 3rd round pick? Methinks you're lying to even yourself. Lance was never mentioned, stop trying to move the conversation away from your hero (once and now again) Watson. Talking about the NFL rookie to rookie is right... Watson vs. Mills
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Gotta go through a couple of yrs of the rebuild and get some talent in place before McDaniels takes over. This draft and after the 2022 season McDaniels takes over and gets the 2023 draft talent to work with too. By 2024 I expect a contender. Particularly if Mills proves to be the answer at QB.
Why.

No one is expecting to win for two-three years, it would not reflect poorly on McDaniels as long as we're not pissing games away like the Jets or Jags.

Makes more sense for McDaniels to come in on the ground floor & build the team & processes with his buddies
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Why.

No one is expecting to win for two-three years, it would not reflect poorly on McDaniels as long as we're not pissing games away like the Jets or Jags.

Makes more sense for McDaniels to come in on the ground floor & build the team & processes with his buddies
Nope, letting others take the heat while his buddy builds out the team is a pretty smart career move. IMHO
 


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