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Official 2012 Training Camp Thread

b0ng said:
Dre, Brown, and Kareem will be back on Monday. According to Kubiak.
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Great news, but I'd still hold them out against Carolina for the 1st preseason game. The 2nd and 3rd preseason games should be plenty of work to get them ready for the season.

The only concern with that is Schaub playing without his All Pro LT protecting him even though I'm sure it'll only be for 2 series max.
 
Texn4life said:
He has much more big play potential than Walter has had. If I had to predict I would say he has 1000-1200 yard potential down the line. Obviously it won't happen this year but I think in the right situation he has this kind of production in him.

Its all gonna depend on him though. The best players in this league almost always have the best work ethic.
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I'd say Keyshawn Martin has a ton more "big play potential" than Posey. Just curious, did you go to any open practices? No offense intended.
 
NastyNate said:
I'd say Keyshawn Martin has a ton more "big play potential" than Posey. Just curious, did you go to any open practices? No offense intended.
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None taken, but no I haven't been able to make any this year. Went to a couple last year, but I've been out of town some this past week. I've had to depend on you guys, reporters, Kubiak, and some friends of mine who have been going. One is a former scout in the league so I respect his opinion even though he really didn't say much about the receivers.

As far as Martin having a ton more big play potential you could be right, but Posey has the ability to get behind the defense. Martin is going to be a beast in this league with the YAC he'll be able to pick up. He should be lethal with the ball in his hands. Posey doesn't possess the same run after the catch ability, but he consistently made plays down the field in college. They're 2 totally different type of receivers. If they both max out on potential I believe they both have 1000 yard seasons in them easily.
 
Texn4life said:
None taken, but no I haven't been able to make any this year. Went to a couple last year, but I've been out of town some this past week. I've had to depend on you guys, reporters, Kubiak, and some friends of mine who have been going. One is a former scout in the league so I respect his opinion even though he really didn't say much about the receivers.

As far as Martin having a ton more big play potential you could be right, but Posey has the ability to get behind the defense. Martin is going to be a beast in this league with the YAC he'll be able to pick up. He should be lethal with the ball in his hands. Posey doesn't possess the same run after the catch ability, but he consistently made plays down the field in college. They're 2 totally different type of receivers. If they both max out on potential I believe they both have 1000 yard seasons in them easily.
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I'd say Martin is more quick than fast, very shifty and I think he fits our WCO system moreso than Posey. From just watching both of them the other day, I'd rather have KW and Andre on the field with Martin in the slot over Posey. Martin actually posted a better 40 time, and his 3 cone is better by nearly 2 tenths, he's a playmaker. Posey looked like an average receiver the other day. Martin impressed.
 
Wolf6151 said:
Hey Texans Chick or anyone else that's been to Training Camp, I'm looking for some opinions on Garrett Graham-TE. How's he looked so far? I can't help the feeling that if I'm Kubiak, it's time to stick your foot in Graham's ass for motivational reasons. With Dreesen gone it's time for Graham to step up or go bye bye. Thanks.
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Graham's had some nice catches. Will be interesting to see if they use him as the 2nd TE or if they use Casey. They are not using Casey a ton at FB.

Hard to tell a lot on blocking because they haven't done a ton of full pads stuff. They are doing a lot of teaching because of the new pieces on offense.
 
NastyNate said:
I'd say Martin is more quick than fast, very shifty and I think he fits our WCO system moreso than Posey. From just watching both of them the other day, I'd rather have KW and Andre on the field with Martin in the slot over Posey. Martin actually posted a better 40 time, and his 3 cone is better by nearly 2 tenths, he's a playmaker. Posey looked like an average receiver the other day. Martin impressed.
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Over the course of camp, both Martin and Posey have had some flashy days, not flashy days. Posey's size is nice, and Martin has played both in the slot and outside. Next week Kubiak says he's going to try to settle down the WR position so the quarterbacks can get work with the same guys more.

Think Martin may get on the field quicker because he fits the slot role more than Posey and has been working special teams. But both Posey and Jean have had their moments.

Don't think anyone can over emphasize any one or two days. I think this competition is wide open. This preseason will be very interesting.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Graham's had some nice catches. Will be interesting to see if they use him as the 2nd TE or if they use Casey. They are not using Casey a ton at FB.

Hard to tell a lot on blocking because they haven't done a ton of full pads stuff. They are doing a lot of teaching because of the new pieces on offense.
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Chick ... can you compare these camps with the ones of 2006 .
 
NastyNate said:
I'd say Martin is more quick than fast, very shifty and I think he fits our WCO system moreso than Posey. From just watching both of them the other day, I'd rather have KW and Andre on the field with Martin in the slot over Posey. Martin actually posted a better 40 time, and his 3 cone is better by nearly 2 tenths, he's a playmaker. Posey looked like an average receiver the other day. Martin impressed.
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Like I said you're really comparing apples to oranges in terms of the type of receivers they are. Martin's movements and change of direction are more sudden than Posey, so yeah he'd definitely fit better in the slot. The measurables that you mentioned indicate that.

There are some updates even from today's practice of Posey beating a DB deep and connecting on a long pass so he has a role in this offense as well. Otherwise we wouldn't have drafted him. A lot of what we do in the passing game comes off of play action so there will be opportunities for Posey to make plays down the field. 40 times and all of that are great, but Dickerson ran a 4.40 and he could never beat anyone down the field. I like guys who flash good game speed and Posey made plays down the field in college. As far as Posey looking average, Kubiak and others that have updated all week say he's had a good camp so far. Not everyone is going to always see things the same though so I understand where you're coming from. We'll find out starting next week exactly how far along each of these guys are.
 
Just to kind of add to that as well Nate, if you look at their last 2 full years in college Posey bettered Martin in yards and YPC.

Martin: 2010- 32 rec 394 yards 12.3 YPC
2011- 66 rec 777 yards 11.9 YPC
Posey: 2009- 60 rec 828 yards 13.8 YPC
2010- 53 rec 848 yards 16.0 YPC

This isn't to say that Posey has more big play potential, but just to say to not discount his ability to make plays down the field. It can be argued Posey played with the poorer passer as well in college.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Not without suffering post traumatic stress symptoms.
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I don't remember the 2006 camp as being that bad. There was still a lot of hope that Kubiak would turn Carr around. The Texans had just had their best draft in franchise history (Williams, Ryans, Spencer, Winston, Daniels). I look back and remember a lot of positives, which coming off a 2-14 season can be hard to find. I felt pretty upbeat watching that camp.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Over the course of camp, both Martin and Posey have had some flashy days, not flashy days. Posey's size is nice, and Martin has played both in the slot and outside. Next week Kubiak says he's going to try to settle down the WR position so the quarterbacks can get work with the same guys more.

Think Martin may get on the field quicker because he fits the slot role more than Posey and has been working special teams. But both Posey and Jean have had their moments.

Don't think anyone can over emphasize any one or two days. I think this competition is wide open. This preseason will be very interesting.
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Went to camp this morning, today the offense looked much sharper than yesterday. As TC said, both KMart and Posey have had flashy moments. Martin made a really nice grab to open the scrimmage session and Posey made a sweet snag on a bomb down the left sideline from Yates (I think) to end the practice session.

Back to the WR plays. It's not like the DBs got beat badly; the DBs were step-for-step with K-Mart & Posey but they made the catches anyway. If these two guys continue to improve one of them may just supplant KW in a year or so. Perhaps before this year is done.

Maybe it's familiarity with what's coming, but the defense seems to stuff nearly every running play. I think during the early scrimmage (when they were on the north end of the field) Forsett got blown up in the backfield - drawing Oooooo's from the bleacher crowd. I know, TC, guys in shorts... don't be too impressed or depressed. :D

Going back on Monday...
 
Texn4life said:
Just to kind of add to that as well Nate, if you look at their last 2 full years in college Posey bettered Martin in yards and YPC.

Martin: 2010- 32 rec 394 yards 12.3 YPC
2011- 66 rec 777 yards 11.9 YPC
Posey: 2009- 60 rec 828 yards 13.8 YPC
2010- 53 rec 848 yards 16.0 YPC

This isn't to say that Posey has more big play potential, but just to say to not discount his ability to make plays down the field. It can be argued Posey played with the poorer passer as well in college.
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Will be nice to see both in a full stadium. Unlike some of the WRs they've tried to develop, they aren't small school guys or development guys. Kubiak needs them to be ready quickly, and both look better in training camp than they did in minicamp.

I wouldn't be too up or too down on any of these guys. There's going to be mistakes because this system demands a lot of the WR position, but there's been plenty to be encouraged about with these guys.

And as an aside, the running back group has looked beastly. Wrap those guys in bubble wrap right away.
 
Lucky said:
I don't remember the 2006 camp as being that bad. There was still a lot of hope that Kubiak would turn Carr around. The Texans had just had their best draft in franchise history (Williams, Ryans, Spencer, Winston, Daniels). I look back and remember a lot of positives, which coming off a 2-14 season can be hard to find. I felt pretty upbeat watching that camp.
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I didn't see a pre Shaub training camp but did see Schaub's first year . I'm curious to see how Kubiak has grown as a coach . I get the feeling they brought in 100% grade A football players who are good for Kubiak's style .
 
Texans_Chick said:
And as an aside, the running back group has looked beastly. Wrap those guys in bubble wrap right away.
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Speaking of running backs...... Does Arian look any quicker or faster than last year? It looked to me that he was a tad faster last year than his rookie year. Is he still doing the speed training in the offseason with his brother? It really seemed like to me the work he put in with him paid off.
 
Lucky said:
I don't remember the 2006 camp as being that bad. There was still a lot of hope that Kubiak would turn Carr around. The Texans had just had their best draft in franchise history (Williams, Ryans, Spencer, Winston, Daniels). I look back and remember a lot of positives, which coming off a 2-14 season can be hard to find. I felt pretty upbeat watching that camp.
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Maybe I just was getting crushed with blog commenters. The David Carr reclamation project was something that zero fans had any patience with, and that whole stupid off-season was Bush/VY bleh combined with Mario Williams toe issue that came up in camp, then plantar fasciitis.
 
Texn4life said:
Speaking of running backs...... Does Arian look any quicker or faster than last year? It looked to me that he was a tad faster last year than his rookie year. Is he still doing the speed training in the offseason with his brother?
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I don't know what his workouts entail but I know he works out with his brother.

I'm not sure about being any quicker. Last year he had all those hamstring issues. Year before he had a clean camp with Tate having more issues.

He, Tate and Forsett just look season ready right now. Just fun to watch Foster pick his spots, has great patience finding blocks and then gliding to a different gear when he sees open space. I think Foster and Martin have the most distinctive running styles in camp. Martin has an interesting suddenness to his runs, like video game stuff.
 
The Medic01 said:
Off the subject of WRs how does the OLINE look?
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Head Coach Gary Kubiak
(on the depth at tackle behind Rashad Butler and Derek Newton) “Well, right now that would be a little scary because those guys are young. I think (Andrew) Gardner does some good stuff. The young kid (Nathan) Menkin has done some good stuff as well as the kid from Purdue (Nick Mondek) that we drafted. They’ve got talent, but obviously they have a ways to go. We’re holding our breath that all three of those guys can stay healthy, but you have to have players that can be flexible too. Maybe Brandon Brooks, at some point, is a flexible player because he’s obviously has the size and the feet to play outside too.”
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HT.com
 
Texn4life said:
Like I said you're really comparing apples to oranges in terms of the type of receivers they are. Martin's movements and change of direction are more sudden than Posey, so yeah he'd definitely fit better in the slot. The measurables that you mentioned indicate that.
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I was comparing apples to apples, you said something along the lines of "big play potential". I see Martin having that in our system more so than Posey because of his YAC ability and just because of his strengths aligning with the lack of depth in the slot position. I can see the argument for Posey's vertical threat in our naked boot plays. Just one man's opinion.
 
Wolf6151 said:
Hey Texans Chick or anyone else that's been to Training Camp, I'm looking for some opinions on Garrett Graham-TE. How's he looked so far? I can't help the feeling that if I'm Kubiak, it's time to stick your foot in Graham's ass for motivational reasons. With Dreesen gone it's time for Graham to step up or go bye bye. Thanks.
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From HT.com this morning:
Kubiak
(on TE Garrett Graham) “I think he’s one of the more improved players on our team right now. He really has grown up from last year. He’s healthy and performing well. He’s got a big role on this team with Joel (Dreessen) missing and he’s shown that he’s going to be able to handle that. After a week, I’ve been impressed.”
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NastyNate said:
I was comparing apples to apples, you said something along the lines of "big play potential". I see Martin having that in our system more so than Posey because of his YAC ability and just because of his strengths aligning with the lack of depth in the slot position. I can see the argument for Posey's vertical threat in our naked boot plays. Just one man's opinion.
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Gotcha, and you have valid points for Martin making big plays EARLIER than Posey because Martin is a natural fit in the slot. Both will have opportunities to make big plays at some point in their careers here. That's the key thing.
 
Texn4life said:
Gotcha, and you have valid points for Martin making big plays EARLIER than Posey because Martin is a natural fit in the slot. Both will have opportunities to make big plays at some point in their careers here. That's the key thing.
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Indeed, at the very least, several receivers HAVE to step up. We've got 2 proven wide receivers on this team and a bunch of unknowns as it stands. I hope they all stick.
 
AlanBurge "Schaub's been with Keshawn Martin for 7 days. Watching that kind of come together & get better each day has been exciting for me." - Kubiak about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite
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So Schaub and Martin are developing a chemistry already? Combine that with what Steph said about Martins running ability being similar to Arians....drool.....
 
Texans_Chick said:
I don't know what his workouts entail but I know he works out with his brother.

I'm not sure about being any quicker. Last year he had all those hamstring issues. Year before he had a clean camp with Tate having more issues.

He, Tate and Forsett just look season ready right now. Just fun to watch Foster pick his spots, has great patience finding blocks and then gliding to a different gear when he sees open space. I think Foster and Martin have the most distinctive running styles in camp. Martin has an interesting suddenness to his runs, like video game stuff.
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I definitely got that impression. It was only one practice that I was able to view, but he didn't seem to have to build up speed, he just plants his foot and he's already in second gear. Something very visible in his talent, I think he will be a big asset to the slot game this year.
 
(on the tailback competition) “I think it’s the best group I’ve ever been around as a coach because of how they’re playing, not because of their names. It’ll be interesting to see. I think Arian (Foster) and Ben (Tate) have had an excellent camp. They’re pushing each other to a level that they don’t even understand what they’re doing to each other, but it’s going to be great for both of them and their career and great for our team.”
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Kubiak quote there - Man that excites me. We have crazy good depth and when you have two guys as good as Tate and Foster, that competition can only bring out the best in each. Is there a better group at RB in the league? If not, I want to know who is. LOVE it!
 
Porky said:
Kubiak quote there - Man that excites me. We have crazy good depth and when you have two guys as good as Tate and Foster, that competition can only bring out the best in each. Is there a better group at RB in the league? If not, I want to know who is. LOVE it!
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Well at least some folks considered them number one mid last season - Link

#2 lost their #2. #3 has shown no faith in their #2. #4 had their #2 fail a conditioning test. And frankly #5 was a joke.
 
I keep thinking of Derrick Mason's best years when I read about Martin in this thread.

Mason was a killer on the field because he would snag stuff and get crazy YAC out of it. He was a 3rd down machine, IIRC.

Defenses gonna have to pick their poison between Foster/Tate, OD/Graham, AJ, and KW/Martin.

I like our receivers this year. Even with the departure if Dreessen...I feel like we're going to see a better passing game this year. I mean that.
 
GP said:
I like our receivers this year. Even with the departure if Dreessen...I feel like we're going to see a better passing game this year. I mean that.
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I have hope for this receiving corps' potential.

But I don't know how that's going to translate when bullets start to fly for real. I want to at least see a couple of pre-season games before I go crazy over them.
 
GP said:
Defenses gonna have to pick their poison between Foster/Tate, OD/Graham, AJ, and KW/Martin.

I like our receivers this year. Even with the departure if Dreessen...I feel like we're going to see a better passing game this year. I mean that.
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Don't forget about Casey. Before he got hurt he was a big factor in our offense last year. I keep bringing this name up, but I see him as our Frank Wycheck. Kubiak referred to him as his "Jim Thorpe" and I see him playing a major role this year. There aren't many players who can play full back, tight end, split out wide as a receiver, and then even take a toss at the tail back position like he did last year.
 
DX-TEX said:
So Schaub and Martin are developing a chemistry already? Combine that with what Steph said about Martins running ability being similar to Arians....drool.....
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No, they don't run the same, but similarly, they have unique running styles.

Arian has a way of running where it is almost like he is gliding and doesn't look like he is running fast but is. He picks his spots and then gets into his extra gear in a way that makes him hard to tackle.

Martin has a suddenness to the way he runs, sort of a relentless choppiness that has the ability to embarrass defenders.

What I'm saying is that they have running styles that are so unique that even if you didn't see numbers on them, you could tell who they were by the way they run.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Day 8 2012 Texans training camp: My view on position competitions

Lots of stuff there.

Including a fun picture of Matt Schaub. I started getting requests on Twitter for avatar pictures, so I then started taking a different picture every day. Yesterday I was able to get Schaub to do one, and this is the pose he chose.
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I don't think that fullback is really a key competition. I'm much more interested, as a fan, in which guy with <2 seasons emerges as a pass catching threat.
 
Texn4life said:
Don't forget about Casey. Before he got hurt he was a big factor in our offense last year. I keep bringing this name up, but I see him as our Frank Wycheck. Kubiak referred to him as his "Jim Thorpe" and I see him playing a major role this year. There aren't many players who can play full back, tight end, split out wide as a receiver, and then even take a toss at the tail back position like he did last year.
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Yes. Agree with you.

I left him out sort of on purpose...to show that he's a guy who's an extra threat that adds to the problems of a d-coord.

He's an x-factor guy. Other guys are likely splitting time...Casey is all over the field playing whatever position Kubiak wants/needs on any given play.
 
b0ng said:
I don't think that fullback is really a key competition. I'm much more interested, as a fan, in which guy with <2 seasons emerges as a pass catching threat.
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The 49ers of the 80's would disagree with you and Tom Rathman would like a word with you. With a suspect O-Line (or Unknown if you prefer) it maybe one of the more crucial positions than any other on the team this season.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Day 8 2012 Texans training camp: My view on position competitions

Lots of stuff there.

Including a fun picture of Matt Schaub. I started getting requests on Twitter for avatar pictures, so I then started taking a different picture every day. Yesterday I was able to get Schaub to do one, and this is the pose he chose.
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I don't think newton is going to be a "swing tackle" just based off of my own observations.

Seems like he will play the RT position regardless of which tackle gets injured.

I think they will do what they've done which is move butler to LT. They probably trust him more to handle that side.
 
Rey said:
I don't think newton is going to be a "swing tackle" just based off of my own observations.

Seems like he will play the RT position regardless of which tackle gets injured.

I think they will do what they've done which is move butler to LT. They probably trust him more to handle that side.
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Strongly agree. Even draft scouts were speaking of Newton not being able to handle the LT position at the NFL level because he demonstrated limited quickness and lateral mobility. He should do fine at RT, but like Winston, he may have problems with around the end speed rushers.
 
Specnatz said:
The 49ers of the 80's would disagree with you and Tom Rathman would like a word with you. With a suspect O-Line (or Unknown if you prefer) it maybe one of the more crucial positions than any other on the team this season.
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The 80's was 30 years ago, and Tom Rathman ain't walkin through that door. The Texans have proven over the last couple of years that great fullback (Leach) or not (Vickers) they will get their yards on the ground.
 
To anyone attending practice, pay attention to the appearance of Schaub's legs and see if you perceive any differences in their development/thickness.
 
DB, AJ and KJ were all back at practice. AJ took about 20 reps. KJ took about half his usual and DB went the entire practice.

Per Twitter post practice tweets
 
I really haven't been paying attention to TC this year, so if anyone doesn't mind, will give me the rundown of the TC so far?

And someone told me Tate's looking terrible this offseason, is that true?
 
SteveSlaton20 said:
I really haven't been paying attention to TC this year, so if anyone doesn't mind, will give me the rundown of the TC so far?

And someone told me Tate's looking terrible this offseason, is that true?
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Best way to catch up would be Texan Chick's blog on the Chronicle.

Have not heard even the hint of a rumor about Tate not looking good.
 
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