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Off season....

austins23 said:
Very telling from this article....
In August he gave up a third-round pick for Browns running back Duke Johnson, who totaled 820 scrimmage yards.
Just ridiculous...He had no clue how to use this guy.

Now they’ll watch as the Titans play in the AFC championship game, and O’Brien had no answers after the loss:

He doesn't know what's holding his team back?? Damn buffoon.
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He has answers, he just doesn't want to throw players under the bus.
 
RGV82 said:
Regardless, this is all irrelevant trying to justify getting rid of Watson. He is not going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
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Ah I see so when you say that he picked their number 1 ranked secondary apart its a valid point to support your argument but when I point out that New England's defense was made to look better than it actually was then it becomes irrelevant. Got it I understand now.
 
maverick512000 said:
Ah I see so when you say that he picked their number 1 ranked secondary apart its a valid point to support your argument but when I point out that New England's defense was made to look better than it actually was then it becomes irrelevant. Got it I understand now.
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Quit being a Watson hater. The guy is a stud. Arguing semantics with you is pointless.
 
RGV82 said:
Quit being a Watson hater. The guy is a stud. Arguing semantics with you is pointless.
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Oh so now anyone that's questions him or points out when there are other factors involved is a "Watson hater" in other words you can't actually come up with a reasonable argument so you are resorting you just throwing out you're just a Watson hater. Oh and those "semantics" are ones you brought up first and used to make your argument. This is why I actually have more respect for Steel than I do 90% of this board because at least he doesn't dismiss someone's argument just because he disagrees with it. Of course I don't know why I expected any different because we seem to be attracting a lot of the "Watson is the greatest of all time and anyone that disagrees is just a hater" crowd around here.

Why don't you try to actually learn a little about the people that have been around here a while and what their view points are before you start spouting off declaring this person a "Watson hater" or whatever.
 
maverick512000 said:
Oh so now anyone that's questions him or points out when there are other factors involved is a "Watson hater" in other words you can't actually come up with a reasonable argument so you are resorting you just throwing out you're just a Watson hater. Oh and those "semantics" are ones you brought up first and used to make your argument. This is why I actually have more respect for Steel than I do 90% of this board because at least he doesn't dismiss someone's argument just because he disagrees with it. Of course I don't know why I expected any different because we seem to be attracting a lot of the "Watson is the greatest of all time and anyone that disagrees is just a hater" crowd around here.

Why don't you try to actually learn a little about the people that have been around here a while and what their view points are before you start spouting off declaring this person a "Watson hater" or whatever.
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Mainly because I don't care to get to know you. When you look around at players like Trubisky, Winston, etc. who were all given years to develop, and here you are trying to justify getting rid of Watson because of one bad month.... I find that rather unintelligent and petty.
 
RGV82 said:
Mainly because I don't care to get to know you. When you look around at players like Trubisky, Winston, etc. who were all given years to develop, and here you are trying to justify getting rid of Watson because of one bad month.... I find that rather unintelligent and petty.
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And I find the fact that someone that has been on this board for literally two weeks talking as if they know what has been said and who has said it to be unintelligent and petty.

Oh by the way, Chicago has major buyers remorse over Trubisky, who was drafted same year Watson was so has had just as much time to develop, and they are already talking about moving on from him and Wilson won a SB in his second season so yeah you might want to pick better examples.
 
maverick512000 said:
And I find the fact that someone that has been on this board for literally two weeks talking as if they know what has been said and who has said it to be unintelligent and petty.

Oh by the way, Chicago has major buyers remorse over Trubisky, who was drafted same year Watson was so has had just as much time to develop, and they are already talking about moving on from him and Wilson won a SB in his second season so yeah you might want to pick better examples.
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I have not once talked "as if I know what has been said". I simply comment on the posts or comments at hand. I do not need an entire history of everyone.
 
RGV82 said:
I have not once talked "as if I know what has been said". I simply comment on the posts or comments at hand. I do not need an entire history of everyone.
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So we shouldn't judge Watson based on one bad month yet you are willing to declare someone a "Watson hater" and that they want rid of him based on just a couple of weeks of posts. This gets better and better.
 
maverick512000 said:
So we shouldn't judge Watson based on one bad month yet you are willing to declare someone a "Watson hater" and that they want rid of him based on just a couple of weeks of posts. This gets better and better.
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You made it clear that you did not think Watson was our answer at QB, so I simply said you can not question his ability to be our QB based on one bad month. Then you went on a rant. Stop taking things so personally.
 
RGV82 said:
I refuse to write him off because of 2 poor games at the end of the season. He picked apart New Englands number 1 ranked secondary in December in case you forgot. I agree he had a couple of rough games towards the end of the season. When you consider teams like Chicago who stick with a guy like Trubisky for 3 years+, there is no way I am giving up on him after a rough month.
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You know damned well NE was ravaged by injuries and the flu for that game. It was a national story. There are about 50 qbs in the league that could’ve matched Watson’s whopping 234 passing yards against a team that was playing at about 25% of their capability.

I realize you’re desperate for a counter argument because you don’t want to accept the truth that Watson is not your savior, but you whiffed with this one.
 
RGV82 said:
You made it clear that you did not think Watson was our answer at QB, so I simply said you can not question his ability to be our QB based on one bad month. Then you went on a rant. Stop taking things so personally.
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I didn't take it personally, if anything I was simply amused by the hypocrisy. Oh and please quote the post where I made it clear that I didn't think Watson was the answer.
 
maverick512000 said:
I didn't take it personally, if anything I was simply amused by the hypocrisy. Oh and please quote the post where I made it clear that I didn't think Watson was the answer.
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My bad. I actually was having a back and forth with "steelbtexan" who made the original comment and somehow you jumped in and got involved.
 
RGV82 said:
Mainly because I don't care to get to know you. When you look around at players like Trubisky, Winston, etc. who were all given years to develop, and here you are trying to justify getting rid of Watson because of one bad month.... I find that rather unintelligent and petty.
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you're new. See this board has SO MANY analysts and guys who think they could run a professional team, or boomers whose best years as fans have come and gone. the ignore feature will be your friend here if you truly plan to have long lasting, rational discussion and dialogue about any and all things. you're starting to see the line in the sand. good luck!
 
Texas Jake said:
Too much is put on his shoulders. When you score what should be the game winning drive and the defense gives the game away or you spot the other team to TDs off the back and you are constantly playing catch up, that is a lot of pressure in a young QB. I think a big part of the problem is Watson tries to do too much and the offense has to abandon the game plan early because the defense can't stop the other team.

I am not saying Watson doesn't need to improve, but the situation is magnified because of the situations he is put in. It is also hard to establish a rhythm when the other team keeps marching down the field, scoring points and running the clock. I don't think the play calling helps him out enough, but I believe part if that has been Watson being over committed to the big play and not taking (or possibly seeing) the underneath routes and checkdowns.

I know you don't believe this, but I think we have a QB to get us to and win a SB. I don't think he is that QB yet, but I think he definetly has the potential to become that QB. Regardless, one player doesn't win a SB, it takes a team (players and coaches) and we ain't there, yet.
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Well he needs to get "there" before we pay him $35 m + a year. He needs to bring huge improvement this year
 
RGV82 said:
Mainly because I don't care to get to know you. When you look around at players like Trubisky, Winston, etc. who were all given years to develop, and here you are trying to justify getting rid of Watson because of one bad month.... I find that rather unintelligent and petty.
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I dont see anybody “trying to justify getting rid of Watson.” In fact, I don’t see anybody wanting to get rid of Watson at all. I do see a few folk questioning Watson’s development so far, wondering if there’s a problem in that development, wondering (in my case) if he’s regressing a little (not seeing the field, running aimlessly, getting caught behind the line a lot when he use to escape a lot more, missing some throws which look like he’s not really as accurate as we imagined, especially when on the run, etc etc. These seem like legit concerns. Maybe it’s all on OB and the QB coach (wasn’t he supposed to be a hero QB coach?), but maybe, just maybe, he needs some more work and more help from the system, and some blocking, and a little more seasoning. He seems to be playing sand lot ball much of the time. Contrast with what’s’ is’ face from KC who seems to have developed into a first rate NFL QB.
 
RGV82 said:
Mainly because I don't care to get to know you. When you look around at players like Trubisky, Winston, etc. who were all given years to develop, and here you are trying to justify getting rid of Watson because of one bad month.... I find that rather unintelligent and petty.
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Of course you dont

3 yrs?

How many more do you want to give him/waste?

Doesn't mean BOB isn't wasting yrs either.
 
Uncle Rico said:
you're new. See this board has SO MANY analysts and guys who think they could run a professional team, or boomers whose best years as fans have come and gone. the ignore feature will be your friend here if you truly plan to have long lasting, rational discussion and dialogue about any and all things. you're starting to see the line in the sand. good luck!
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You're going to run out of room to add to the ignore list.

I'm proud to be the 1st poster on this ever growing list.

Dont like the truth, put on ignore seems to be your motto. Why anybody would want to have a conversation with you on anything DW4 related is beyond me. BTW, what Socialist generation are you from? Dont answer.
 
steelbtexan said:
Of course you dont

3 yrs?

How many more do you want to give him/waste?

Doesn't mean BOB isn't wasting yrs either.
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Well first off, he’s only played 2 years. Year one he only started 6 games. And I guess that’s where we disagree. I don’t think he’s a waste. With new coaching and an improved defence, I think he could take us to the Super Bowl.
 
RGV82 said:
Well first off, he’s only played 2 years. Year one he only started 6 games. And I guess that’s where we disagree. I don’t think he’s a waste. With new coaching and an improved defence, I think he could take us to the Super Bowl.
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With the playoffs he's actually started 2 yrs and 9 games. He should be further along. The playoff experience should be more valuable than any regular season games. Lets look at his 3 playoff games as a template.

Indy= Team was hurt badly, but I think we can all agree he played poorly.

Buffalo= Played very poorly for 2 1/2 qtrs and got a lucky win in OT.

Kansas City= 51-7

Are you starting to see a trend here? How many yrs?
 
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RGV82 said:
Well first off, he’s only played 2 years. Year one he only started 6 games. And I guess that’s where we disagree. I don’t think he’s a waste. With new coaching and an improved defence, I think he could take us to the Super Bowl.
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This is why I have been pounding the table for a successful OC whose scheme will work with Watson's strengths.
 
TripleTap said:
I dont see anybody “trying to justify getting rid of Watson.” In fact, I don’t see anybody wanting to get rid of Watson at all. I do see a few folk questioning Watson’s development so far, wondering if there’s a problem in that development, wondering (in my case) if he’s regressing a little (not seeing the field, running aimlessly, getting caught behind the line a lot when he use to escape a lot more, missing some throws which look like he’s not really as accurate as we imagined, especially when on the run, etc etc. These seem like legit concerns. Maybe it’s all on OB and the QB coach (wasn’t he supposed to be a hero QB coach?), but maybe, just maybe, he needs some more work and more help from the system, and some blocking, and a little more seasoning. He seems to be playing sand lot ball much of the time. Contrast with what’s’ is’ face from KC who seems to have developed into a first rate NFL QB.
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Exactly

BTW, Mahomes is much more talented than DW4. Mahomes big plays come off of his great right arm

DW4's big plays come off of plays like in the Oakland/Buffalo games.

I guess I've still got a case of the red a** over RS not being willing to give up an extra 3rd rd pick to get Mahomes. Incompetence at it's finest, but hey, atleast Cal got a new friend and a godfather for his child out of the deal.
 
Texansphan said:
This is why I have been pounding the table for a successful OC whose scheme will work with Watson's strengths.
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After almost 3 yrs what are his strengths? Very athletic? What happens when he loses even a little bit of his athletic ability due to injury (Very likely to happen soon with his style of play) or age?

That's about it when it comes to strengths. Accuracy and anticipation which are the 2 most important things a QB can have aren't strengths and are god given. They cant be taught, you either have these things or you dont.
 
steelbtexan said:
After almost 3 yrs what are his strengths? Very athletic? What happens when he loses even a little bit of his athletic ability due to injury (Very likely to happen soon with his style of play) or age?

That's about it when it comes to strengths. Accuracy and anticipation which are the 2 most important things a QB can have aren't strengths and are god given. They cant be taught, you either have these things or you dont.
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I look at it this way - not many QBs are good enough to be elite and good teams/coaches work with what they have and can become very successful franchises.
Building your vision for your QB's success relies on good drafting, scheming and coaching which is why it is way too early to give up on DW4 yet and why I want a change of philosophy around him.
 
Texansphan said:
I look at it this way - not many QBs are good enough to be elite and good teams/coaches work with what they have and can become very successful franchises.
Building your vision for your QB's success relies on good drafting, scheming and coaching which is why it is way too early to give up on DW4 yet and why I want a change of philosophy around him.
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I agree

It's also my belief RS drafted a QB that BOB didn't want and now that QB is about to make 35 mil per yr. Do you think DW4's worth 35 mil per yr?
 
steelbtexan said:
I guess I've still got a case of the red a** over RS not being willing to give up an extra 3rd rd pick to get Mahomes.
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Do you know for a fact that he had the opportunity? It was a surprise to all that KC moved up to 10

steelbtexan said:
Incompetence at it's finest, but hey, atleast Cal got a new friend and a godfather for his child out of the deal.
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RS was a godfather of Cal's kid long before this draft
 
steelbtexan said:
I agree

It's also my belief RS drafted a QB that BOB didn't want and now that QB is about to make 35 mil per yr. Do you think DW4's worth 35 mil per yr?
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What more does he need to accomplish to prove his worth?
Before you answer, keep in mind he likely runs up even more amazing stats in a better system.
Iow, he did enough individually to advance his team further than the Texans did. Compare his stats to other QBs still in the playoffs - they are quite favourable. If you want better, good luck with that - which is why Watson needs another OC - it's easier to acquire a better system than QB.
 
JB said:
Do you know for a fact that he had the opportunity? It was a surprise to all that KC moved up to 10


RS was a godfather of Cal's kid long before this draft
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The Texans had a higher 3rd to give up than the Chiefs did and it's been rumored BOB wanted Mahomes but RS wasn't willing to give up the 3rd to get Mahomes and instead got DW4 who was the only other available option.

You missed the point about the godfather.
 
Texansphan said:
What more does he need to accomplish to prove his worth?
Before you answer, keep in mind he likely runs up even more amazing stats in a better system.
Iow, he did enough individually to advance his team further than the Texans did. Compare his stats to other QBs still in the playoffs - they are quite favourable. If you want better, good luck with that - which is why Watson needs another OC - it's easier to acquire a better system than QB.
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Not be complicit in 51-7

Not look like he did over the last month of the season.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Texans had a higher 3rd to give up than the Chiefs did and it's been rumored BOB wanted Mahomes but RS wasn't willing to give up the 3rd to get Mahomes and instead got DW4 who was the only other available option.

You missed the point about the godfather.
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1. That is a rumor of your mind. Never heard that anywhere else
2. What was the point?
 
steelbtexan said:
The Texans had a higher 3rd to give up than the Chiefs did and it's been rumored BOB wanted Mahomes but RS wasn't willing to give up the 3rd to get Mahomes and instead got DW4 who was the only other available option.

You missed the point about the godfather.
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I wanted Mahomes as well but it is what it is and Watson is not a Ryan Leaf.
I imagine there would be about 20 other teams that would love to have him.
 
Texas Jake said:
True. When the defense can't get a stop the offense gets desperate and tries to do to much. Once the momentum shifted, the offense didn't seem like it could settle back into a productive rhythm.

This offense is not really capable of winning games when it becomes a shootout, but it is good enough to win games with a good defense. I agree there is a lot of room for improvement on the offense, but I still stand by my statement that with a good defense, we have enough on offense to have a chance at going all the way. We do not have a good defense--we have a defense that can play good at times.
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That's the way it is when the Texans commit their resources on offense this year while the Defensive talents get depleted.
 
Texansphan said:
He doesn't play defense.
He got his team to 2 playoffs.
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51-7 isn't all on the defense.

7 pts in 3 qtrs says the offense didn't help the defense at all. Yes the defense was bad, but BOB/DW4 didn't do the defense any favors.
 
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Texansphan said:
I wanted Mahomes as well but it is what it is and Watson is not a Ryan Leaf.
I imagine there would be about 20 other teams that would love to have him.
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If true, they should try to rape one of those other team in a trade then. We know this isn't going to happen. The Texans are stuck for another 3-5 yrs.
 
JB said:
1. That is a rumor of your mind. Never heard that anywhere else
2. What was the point?
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McClain I think it was reported this, he could be speculating like the rest of us.

2. The point is although McNair hired somebody that wasn't very good at his job, Cal did get something out of RS ineptness. Daddy bought Cal a new friend and a godfather for Cal's kid so something good did come out of the hiring for the McNair's. Even if nothing good came out of the hiring for the Great Fans of the Houston Texans.
 
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Texansphan said:
I look at it this way...
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Some people got nothing better to do than get to the bottom of the rabbit hole.

& I got no problem if that's what you want to do with your time. Free country & all that.

I just want you to know there is no bottom.
 
Just hope they can continue to get better as really with Watson in the helm, it looks more like going up
 
Texansphan said:
Except that it is common knowledge that young QBs usually get better.
Tell me, do you think O'Brien's scheme suits Watson?
Why do you think Tannehill suddenly looks good now?
A change of scenery i.e., new philosophy, was good for him.
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Rubbing my eyes..no Watson does not fit O'Brien's scheme. That's one of the reasons I suggested a trade in my thread. That and the fact that no one sees O'Brien leaving. most think Watson would do better in a different scheme So why not take advantage of that and get three or four starters for him?

1. Obrien ain't leaving.
2. Watson ain't being traded.
3. 2020 same verse as the first, Henry.
At least a trade for Watson would offer a future different from what we know is going to happen. Instead we're going to Clinch our fists stomp our feet and demand our rights as as fans.
 
badboy said:
Rubbing my eyes..no Watson does not fit O'Brien's scheme. That's one of the reasons I suggested a trade in my thread. That and the fact that no one sees O'Brien leaving. most think Watson would do better in a different scheme So why not take advantage of that and get three or four starters for him?

1. Obrien ain't leaving.
2. Watson ain't being traded.
3. 2020 same verse as the first, Henry.
At least a trade for Watson would offer a future different from what we know is going to happen. Instead we're going to Clinch our fists stomp our feet and demand our rights as as fans.
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Sounds about right.
A shame when it comes down to it - we finally have a QB who has a high ceiling and it is being held down and now portions of the fanbase are having to resort to the possibility of shifting him instead of O'Brien.
 
What I would do is load the the team with short term, mercenary type if vets to solve most of the problems of the team. What does that mean? Not only did the team lack getting sacks, but they didn't get pressure. Imo, they need to upgrade the ability to sacks and pressure. When you have cap money, you can give these mercenaries 2 yr deals that dont kill your cap. I would go get a guy like Suh for 2 yrs. He can play end in a 3-4 or dt next to reader in a 4-3. If they stay in a 3-4, another guy can be Robert Quinn. He's a speed rush guy. He's an upgrade over Scarlett in any form or fashion. Danny Travetheon is good in coverage and also scheme adaptable. In 4-3 he's the mike, Cunningham the will, Mckinney the strong. On passing downs he's on the field with Cunningham and Mckinney is on the bench. These are just examples to improve a terrible defense. This hasn't been a high sack/high pressure defense in a while.
 
badboy said:
Rubbing my eyes..no Watson does not fit O'Brien's scheme. That's one of the reasons I suggested a trade in my thread. That and the fact that no one sees O'Brien leaving. most think Watson would do better in a different scheme So why not take advantage of that and get three or four starters for him?

1. Obrien ain't leaving.
2. Watson ain't being traded.
3. 2020 same verse as the first, Henry.
At least a trade for Watson would offer a future different from what we know is going to happen. Instead we're going to Clinch our fists stomp our feet and demand our rights as as fans.
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In sports, 4 quarters dont equal a $1. Do you think Denver with they had Watson or Mahomes vs Garrett Bolles? What about John Ross vs Watson? I will take it a step further, Hugh Jackson would still be the coach in Cleveland if they drafted Watson vs the defensive end. There isnt a parallel or value to having a franchise quarterback.
 
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