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Off season....

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
After almost 3 yrs what are his strengths? Very athletic? What happens when he loses even a little bit of his athletic ability due to injury (Very likely to happen soon with his style of play) or age?

That's about it when it comes to strengths. Accuracy and anticipation which are the 2 most important things a QB can have aren't strengths and are god given. They cant be taught, you either have these things or you dont.
You keep saying accuracy can’t be taught, you sure about that?

Joe Burrows completion % in 2018 was 57.8% in 2019 76.3%. How did he improve by basically 20% in you can’t teach or improve accuracy?

I have a sports training background and I hear more people talk about what can and cannot be improved and most have no idea what they are talking about. Here’s one of my favorites - you cannot coach speed. You’ve heard that right? Why are there track coach’s then? Of course there are genetic components to speed, everyone that runs under 10s in the 100m has the genetic composition to do so, however everyone can be taught to run raster. If I take a 4.7 guy and get him into the 4.5s I’ve “coached” speed. Anything that has a technique to it can be improved by improving said technique. If you’ve ever watched baseball you’ll see pitchers that go through stretches where they struggle to find the strike zone. They’ll talk about having a mechanical issue. Fix the issue, they find the strike zone again. It’s the same with throwing the FB. The first thing I’d look at is footwork. We all saw what happened to Schaub after his foot injury. His arm strength dropped and he had accuracy issues.

Look at your boy Tannehil, first 2 years in the league 58% and 60% completion percentages. His last 3yrs 67%,64%, and 70%. Notice that his highest completion % came when he switched teams and played under a different coaching staff?

Ive previously compared Deshaun Watson to Steve Young. Young’s completion percentages his first four years in the league (2 with TB and 2 with SF) 52%, 53%, 53%, 53%. His 3rd year with SF 69.6%. He had 7 yrs completing over 65% of his passes, 8 if you round up the year he was 64.5%.

You want to imorove anticipation, how about having a consistent receiving corps made up of guys with experience in this ultra complex system. Obviously Hopkins has been an all pro, but in the past 2 seasons Fuller has played 18 games. Last yr we relied on Coutee, a rookie who was in and out of the line up, a young group of TEs, a rookie WR out of limestone college and DeAndre Carter, an inexperienced wr that was added mid season.
This yr, again Fuller was in and out of the line up. Coutee had a poor mistake filled season. Stills was good but added late in the process and also missed some games with injuries. Fells played well but this was his first year in the system and he had some bad drops late in the year. Again, in our system where QBs and WRs need to be on the same page, the lack of experience in the system and the youth has contributed to some of DWs issues. Look at what happened to Brady this year when forced to play with a young inexperienced receieving corp.

These sound like excuses but they are facts. Let’s also add in he’s had an OL that’s ranked in the bottom third of the league for his career, again that’s a fact.

DW has to improve, no question. There are things you keep saying he doesn‘t have and can’t be taught. You wrong about that. Young QBs do improve, and guys that switch offenses and coaches also improve. It does happen. From my perspective, if you said “If” Deshaun doesn’t improve his accuracy and throwing with anticipation we‘re unlikely to win a SB, I wouldn’t say a word.
 

RGV82

Random guy
You keep saying accuracy can’t be taught, you sure about that?

Joe Burrows completion % in 2018 was 57.8% in 2019 76.3%. How did he improve by basically 20% in you can’t teach or improve accuracy?

I have a sports training background and I hear more people talk about what can and cannot be improved and most have no idea what they are talking about. Here’s one of my favorites - you cannot coach speed. You’ve heard that right? Why are there track coach’s then? Of course there are genetic components to speed, everyone that runs under 10s in the 100m has the genetic composition to do so, however everyone can be taught to run raster. If I take a 4.7 guy and get him into the 4.5s I’ve “coached” speed. Anything that has a technique to it can be improved by improving said technique. If you’ve ever watched baseball you’ll see pitchers that go through stretches where they struggle to find the strike zone. They’ll talk about having a mechanical issue. Fix the issue, they find the strike zone again. It’s the same with throwing the FB. The first thing I’d look at is footwork. We all saw what happened to Schaub after his foot injury. His arm strength dropped and he had accuracy issues.

Look at your boy Tannehil, first 2 years in the league 58% and 60% completion percentages. His last 3yrs 67%,64%, and 70%. Notice that his highest completion % came when he switched teams and played under a different coaching staff?

Ive previously compared Deshaun Watson to Steve Young. Young’s completion percentages his first four years in the league (2 with TB and 2 with SF) 52%, 53%, 53%, 53%. His 3rd year with SF 69.6%. He had 7 yrs completing over 65% of his passes, 8 if you round up the year he was 64.5%.

You want to imorove anticipation, how about having a consistent receiving corps made up of guys with experience in this ultra complex system. Obviously Hopkins has been an all pro, but in the past 2 seasons Fuller has played 18 games. Last yr we relied on Coutee, a rookie who was in and out of the line up, a young group of TEs, a rookie WR out of limestone college and DeAndre Carter, an inexperienced wr that was added mid season.
This yr, again Fuller was in and out of the line up. Coutee had a poor mistake filled season. Stills was good but added late in the process and also missed some games with injuries. Fells played well but this was his first year in the system and he had some bad drops late in the year. Again, in our system where QBs and WRs need to be on the same page, the lack of experience in the system and the youth has contributed to some of DWs issues. Look at what happened to Brady this year when forced to play with a young inexperienced receieving corp.

These sound like excuses but they are facts. Let’s also add in he’s had an OL that’s ranked in the bottom third of the league for his career, again that’s a fact.

DW has to improve, no question. There are things you keep saying he doesn‘t have and can’t be taught. You wrong about that. Young QBs do improve, and guys that switch offenses and coaches also improve. It does happen. From my perspective, if you said “If” Deshaun doesn’t improve his accuracy and throwing with anticipation we‘re unlikely to win a SB, I wouldn’t say a word.
The unfortunately reality is that, by the time we have our head office, coaching staff and defense sorted out, DeShaun Watson will be gone.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You keep saying accuracy can’t be taught, you sure about that?

Joe Burrows completion % in 2018 was 57.8% in 2019 76.3%. How did he improve by basically 20% in you can’t teach or improve accuracy?

I have a sports training background and I hear more people talk about what can and cannot be improved and most have no idea what they are talking about. Here’s one of my favorites - you cannot coach speed. You’ve heard that right? Why are there track coach’s then? Of course there are genetic components to speed, everyone that runs under 10s in the 100m has the genetic composition to do so, however everyone can be taught to run raster. If I take a 4.7 guy and get him into the 4.5s I’ve “coached” speed. Anything that has a technique to it can be improved by improving said technique. If you’ve ever watched baseball you’ll see pitchers that go through stretches where they struggle to find the strike zone. They’ll talk about having a mechanical issue. Fix the issue, they find the strike zone again. It’s the same with throwing the FB. The first thing I’d look at is footwork. We all saw what happened to Schaub after his foot injury. His arm strength dropped and he had accuracy issues.

Look at your boy Tannehil, first 2 years in the league 58% and 60% completion percentages. His last 3yrs 67%,64%, and 70%. Notice that his highest completion % came when he switched teams and played under a different coaching staff?

Ive previously compared Deshaun Watson to Steve Young. Young’s completion percentages his first four years in the league (2 with TB and 2 with SF) 52%, 53%, 53%, 53%. His 3rd year with SF 69.6%. He had 7 yrs completing over 65% of his passes, 8 if you round up the year he was 64.5%.

You want to imorove anticipation, how about having a consistent receiving corps made up of guys with experience in this ultra complex system. Obviously Hopkins has been an all pro, but in the past 2 seasons Fuller has played 18 games. Last yr we relied on Coutee, a rookie who was in and out of the line up, a young group of TEs, a rookie WR out of limestone college and DeAndre Carter, an inexperienced wr that was added mid season.
This yr, again Fuller was in and out of the line up. Coutee had a poor mistake filled season. Stills was good but added late in the process and also missed some games with injuries. Fells played well but this was his first year in the system and he had some bad drops late in the year. Again, in our system where QBs and WRs need to be on the same page, the lack of experience in the system and the youth has contributed to some of DWs issues. Look at what happened to Brady this year when forced to play with a young inexperienced receieving corp.

These sound like excuses but they are facts. Let’s also add in he’s had an OL that’s ranked in the bottom third of the league for his career, again that’s a fact.

DW has to improve, no question. There are things you keep saying he doesn‘t have and can’t be taught. You wrong about that. Young QBs do improve, and guys that switch offenses and coaches also improve. It does happen. From my perspective, if you said “If” Deshaun doesn’t improve his accuracy and throwing with anticipation we‘re unlikely to win a SB, I wouldn’t say a word.
He can improve and the examples you gave are great. They also are the exception to the rule. Have you ever thrown a football thru a tire? Some people are naturals some can get better thru practice but they won't ever be as good as the natural.

But maybe Deahaun is the exception to the rule. He will have to change things he's done he whole life though and a person that can do that is rare. Do you believe DW4'S that rare person? I don't after almost 3 years of evidence.
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
He can improve and the examples you gave are great. They also are the exception to the rule. Have you ever thrown a football thru a tire? Some people are naturals some can get better thru practice but they won't ever be as good as the natural.

But maybe Deahaun is the exception to the rule. He will have to change things he's done he whole life though and a person that can do that is rare. Do you believe DW4'S that rare person? I don't after almost 3 years of evidence.
I agree with the first paragraph. I believe everyone can improve but everyone can’t be Manning or Marino if that makes sense

From what I remember watching games this season, I feel like Deshaun’s feet can get “off” from time to time, especially when he’s moving around the pocket. I think as the line improves (cleaner pocket) and if he can stay balanced as he’s moving around in the pocket his accuracy numbers will improve.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
McClain I think it was reported this, he could be speculating like the rest of us.

2. The point is although McNair hired somebody that wasn't very good at his job, Cal did get something out of RS ineptness. Daddy bought Cal a new friend and a godfather for Cal's kid so something good did come out of the hiring for the McNair's. Even if nothing good came out of the hiring for the Great Fans of the Houston Texans.
Let me ask you a question: do you think Mahomes would have the same success offensively under OBrien as he does Reid? If so, please tell me why. If look at Andy Reid and his designs and evolution, every qb has had career yrs. McNabb, perennial pro bowler. Kevin Kolb, Alex Smith, even Vick had their best yrs under Reid. What has OBrien done?
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
Let me ask you a question: do you think Mahomes would have the same success offensively under OBrien as he does Reid? If so, please tell me why. If look at Andy Reid and his designs and evolution, every qb has had career yrs. McNabb, perennial pro bowler. Kevin Kolb, Alex Smith, even Vick had their best yrs under Reid. What has OBrien done?
Brady loves him!

 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Let me ask you a question: do you think Mahomes would have the same success offensively under OBrien as he does Reid? If so, please tell me why. If look at Andy Reid and his designs and evolution, every qb has had career yrs. McNabb, perennial pro bowler. Kevin Kolb, Alex Smith, even Vick had their best yrs under Reid. What has OBrien done?
No,

But I do believe that if RS had given up that 3rd round pick the Texans would be in the SB. Mahomes is that talented.

On a side note, who do you have in the SB?

Shanny has the better team, but I wouldn't bet against Mahomes. I could see Reid f'n up again in the SB
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I agree with the first paragraph. I believe everyone can improve but everyone can’t be Manning or Marino if that makes sense

From what I remember watching games this season, I feel like Deshaun’s feet can get “off” from time to time, especially when he’s moving around the pocket. I think as the line improves (cleaner pocket) and if he can stay balanced as he’s moving around in the pocket his accuracy numbers will improve.
Agreed and I hope this happens, but I wouldn't want to count on it. Forgetting about DW4, the whole org is run by Cletus. What do you really expect?
 
Agreed and I hope this happens, but I wouldn't want to count on it. Forgetting about DW4, the whole org is run by Cletus. What do you really expect?
I don't know Cal might be a good businessman but every time I see him or hear him talk all that pops in my head is Arthur Carlson the station manager on the show WKRP in Cincinnati. Ironically he's the station manager because his mother owns it.

I very easily could see him saying "As God is my witness I thought footballs were round."
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
In sports, 4 quarters dont equal a $1. Do you think Denver with they had Watson or Mahomes vs Garrett Bolles? What about John Ross vs Watson? I will take it a step further, Hugh Jackson would still be the coach in Cleveland if they drafted Watson vs the defensive end. There isnt a parallel or value to having a franchise quarterback.
Not certain I understand your post but will guess--four starters (quarters) don't equal a Watson (dollar)? They sure do if they are franchise type WR Jerry Jeudy, WR Henry Ruggs fastest player in the draft, RB JK Dobbins who compares to Josh Jacobs who many thought was best back in NFL this last season and CB AJ Terrell. Of course teams want a QB like Deshaun but it has been said OBrien does not and again that is entire point of my post. What if we got my picks and a franchise QB for 2020? Stay tuned..I'll add more soon.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Let me ask you a question: do you think Mahomes would have the same success offensively under OBrien as he does Reid? If so, please tell me why. If look at Andy Reid and his designs and evolution, every qb has had career yrs. McNabb, perennial pro bowler. Kevin Kolb, Alex Smith, even Vick had their best yrs under Reid. What has OBrien done?
OBrien has done nothing. Reid and OBrien should not even be mentioned in the same discussion. Unless you are discussing some of the best vs. some of the worst.
 

zshawn10

All Pro
With all the general managers, coaches and scouts in attendance for the Senior Bowl, there is a lot of chatter going around. Here are some of the highlights from around the league from the first day of the 2020 Senior Bowl week.


  • Over the next few offseasons, the Houston Texans are going to be a very interesting team to watch as they have a lot of holes to fill and some essential players who have to be re-signed. Franchise quarterback Deshaun Watson and left tackle Laremy Tunsil are musts as extensions who the team plans on addressing. Like Chiefs quarterback Pat Mahomes, Watson's extension could approach or top $200 million, while Tunsil will likely become the highest paid left tackle in the NFL.

    Aside from those two, Houston has some other good players who will be reaching free agency in the near future, including defensive tackle D.J. Reader, wide receiver Will Fuller and cornerback Bradley Roby.

    "We know we are probably going to lose some good players," said one executive in the front office.

    Sources with the Texans also acknowledge the team needs to add some youth to its defensive line. J.J. Watt is aging and has missed the majority of three of the past four seasons with injury. Sources with Houston say the organization would like to add more pass rush and has interest in upcoming free agents like Jacksonville's Yannick Ngakoue and Dallas' Robert Quinn, but how the Texans spend their available money remains a question.

[\QUOTE]

 
OBrien has done nothing. Reid and OBrien should not even be mentioned in the same discussion. Unless you are discussing some of the best vs. some of the worst.
Oh how quickly history is rewritten. I have posted it many times and many times it has been ignored but Reid and OB had identical records right up until Reid got Mahomes. Reid was every bit the bust in KC, and with a much better QB in Smith, that people say OB has been here. Grass being greener and all that.
 
Let me ask you a question: do you think Mahomes would have the same success offensively under OBrien as he does Reid? If so, please tell me why. If look at Andy Reid and his designs and evolution, every qb has had career yrs. McNabb, perennial pro bowler. Kevin Kolb, Alex Smith, even Vick had their best yrs under Reid. What has OBrien done?
QBs under OB have had career years to they were just much crappier QBs overall. Hoyer actually looked like a starter right up until the playoffs, Savage has been bounced from team to team and hasn't even gotten close to on field since, even Osweiler looked as close to a starter QB under OB than he did any year after. Reid and his designed and schemes requires a QB that fits it just as much as OBs does. OBs requires a pocket passer like a Brady or Brees and Reids requires a duel threat like Mahomes or McNabb. I actually think Smith would have had MORE success under OB than he did under Reid because he was that deep ball, sniper type pocket passer that OB likes.

Both coaches are inflexible and have to have the right kind of QB to make it work but one got the kind of QB he likes and the other didn't. That's not a knock against Watson but he absolutely is not the kind of QB OB preferers just like Smith wasn't the kind of QB Reid prefers.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Oh how quickly history is rewritten. I have posted it many times and many times it has been ignored but Reid and OB had identical records right up until Reid got Mahomes. Reid was every bit the bust in KC, and with a much better QB in Smith, that people say OB has been here. Grass being greener and all that.
Excuse me? Are you sure you know who you’re talking about? We are talking Andy Reid. NFL Head coach since 1999. Super Bowl ring. Over 200 wins. Coach of the year. Etc.
 
Excuse me? Are you sure you know who you’re talking about? We are talking Andy Reid. NFL Head coach since 1999. Super Bowl ring. Over 200 wins. Coach of the year. Etc.
Yeah and up till this year go ask KC what all of that meant. Spoiler alert, not a damn thing. All that stuff he did with Philly, since getting to KC he posted the same stats OB has.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Let me ask you a question: do you think Mahomes would have the same success offensively under OBrien as he does Reid? If so, please tell me why. If look at Andy Reid and his designs and evolution, every qb has had career yrs. McNabb, perennial pro bowler. Kevin Kolb, Alex Smith, even Vick had their best yrs under Reid. What has OBrien done?
I think Mahomes would be much better than DW4. He's a very special talent.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Oh how quickly history is rewritten. I have posted it many times and many times it has been ignored but Reid and OB had identical records right up until Reid got Mahomes. Reid was every bit the bust in KC, and with a much better QB in Smith, that people say OB has been here. Grass being greener and all that.
Yeah and up till this year go ask KC what all of that meant. Spoiler alert, not a damn thing. All that stuff he did with Philly, since getting to KC he posted the same stats OB has.
So you're going to pick a random set of seasons from a 21 year career and compare it to OB??

OB's 1st 6 seasons have netted 2 2nd round losses as his best. Reid's 1st 6 seasons had him in 5 CCGs and a Super Bowl.

Nice cherry picking.

Don Shula had a 6 year stretch where he made the playoffs just once, so I guess Dolphin fans wished they had an OB back then.
 
So you're going to pick a random set of seasons from a 21 year career and compare it to OB??

OB's 1st 6 seasons have netted 2 2nd round losses as his best. Reid's 1st 6 seasons had him in 5 CCGs and a Super Bowl.

Nice cherry picking.

Don Shula had a 6 year stretch where he made the playoffs just once, so I guess Dolphin fans wished they had an OB back then.
It’s not cherry picking at all, it’s comparing them at this stage of there careers. Or do you think KC fans prior to last year were looking at Reid and going “I know he hasn’t won crap for us since he got here but look at all he did in Philly, I’m so glad he’s our coach”. News flash, they weren’t, Hell they were calling for his head THIS season after KC went on that losing streak.

Oh and by the way Reid was given McNab as soon as he became HC, so from day one he got the QB he wanted, and in 2001 was made the GM. So even then you can’t compare them because OB has not had crap at QB, and yes I do blame him partly for that, and seems to have only had final say this year.

Final point, even after 21 years he has never won the big game and only been to the SB twice now but apparently after 6 years we expect OB to have not only been but to have won a SB. Great double standards there.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
almost zero comment on the possible look of Watson's new contract? I think that says a lot right there. Caught up in bickering rather than discussing the details. Basically 190 million over 6 years and under the 35 million per I've seen posted.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Not certain I understand your post but will guess--four starters (quarters) don't equal a Watson (dollar)? They sure do if they are franchise type WR Jerry Jeudy, WR Henry Ruggs fastest player in the draft, RB JK Dobbins who compares to Josh Jacobs who many thought was best back in NFL this last season and CB AJ Terrell. Of course teams want a QB like Deshaun but it has been said OBrien does not and again that is entire point of my post. What if we got my picks and a franchise QB for 2020? Stay tuned..I'll add more soon.
Take the best wrs in football over the past 5 yrs and how many have been to a superbowl, never mind won it? You can load a team up with players everywhere, but if you dont have a qb who can win it when conditions aren't favorable, then it's almost impossible to have a consistent winning team.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
No,

But I do believe that if RS had given up that 3rd round pick the Texans would be in the SB. Mahomes is that talented.

On a side note, who do you have in the SB?

Shanny has the better team, but I wouldn't bet against Mahomes. I could see Reid f'n up again in the SB
You have 0 basis that a 3rd rd pick would've netted that pick for that player. Mahomes, as talented as he is is surrounded by a coach who gets the most out of his qb and offensive players with his system. That's not the case with OBrien and Watson. If Watson was in Chicago with that defense, they would be in the superbowl. Nagy is a better play designer than Obrien. Does Watson have flaws? Yep, but so does Mahomes. It's just his coach helps hide his flaws better.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Take the best wrs in football over the past 5 yrs and how many have been to a superbowl, never mind won it? You can load a team up with players everywhere, but if you dont have a qb who can win it when conditions aren't favorable, then it's almost impossible to have a consistent winning team.
but you're assuming the Texans would not have a quarterback who could take them to the Super Bowl. We have not had one so far. You cannot improve this roster in 2020 without massive changes. Trading Watson would allow that.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
but you're assuming the Texans would not have a quarterback who could take them to the Super Bowl. We have not had one so far. You cannot improve this roster in 2020 without massive changes. Trading Watson would allow that.
You trade Watson, which isnt going to happen, you're the Dolphins. Bottom 3 ol, bottom 3 defense in every category and could've realistically won 11 games. You're assuming that guys like Watson come along every yr who can mask the many flaws of a team. He's a force multiplier. Once they pay him, he's really going to have to mask flaws.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Yes he would.
Where is the history of Obrien maximizing player talents? Have any position on offense gotten better under him? Let me take it further, under Kubiak, they had a undrafted rb become all pro, a 4th rd pick at te become pro bowler, the last left tackle taken in the 1st rd become all pro. They traded for a 5th rd center, he became a probowler and they had a full back who was regarded as one of the best at his position. What has Obrien done even remotely close to that? He's not even worth keystrokes to be placed in Andy Reid class.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You have 0 basis that a 3rd rd pick would've netted that pick for that player. Mahomes, as talented as he is is surrounded by a coach who gets the most out of his qb and offensive players with his system. That's not the case with OBrien and Watson. If Watson was in Chicago with that defense, they would be in the superbowl. Nagy is a better play designer than Obrien. Does Watson have flaws? Yep, but so does Mahomes. It's just his coach helps hide his flaws better.
McClain reported this at the time about the 3rd rd pick and it makes sense because the Texans had a higher 3rd rd pick.

My Chicago friends would disagree with you about Nagy.

Care to expand on what Mahomes flaws are. He hasn't had a turnover in the playoffs.

He put up 35 and 51 pts. I'm not seeing flaws. I'm seeing a generational Arron Rodgers type QB that's going to be starting in a SB in a couple of weeks. In fact 2 of my favorite young QB's (I wanted RS to draft both of them) are squaring off in the SB. I expect Jimmy/Mahomes to both have great games and an epic SB.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Mahomes with that garbage o line his first year and he’s not sitting behind Alex smith nor does he have reliable weapons besides Hopkins if he was here
Mahomes was playing behind a garbage OL after Fisher/Wylie/LDT were hurt and played well.

Making excuses for DW4's poor play seems to be a past time around these parts. I get it after watching DW4 for the last month why some would have to be this way. But it's wrong to try to diminish Mahomes greatness in trying to prop DW4 up. The levels of their QB play isn't even in the same stratosphere right now.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Disagree, Mahomes is a perfect fit for what BOB wants to do.
Let me pose this to you and others, what was the Texans record the yr Watson got hurt? How many games did the Texans win with Watson in and how many did they win after he got hurt? Then flip it, how many games did the Chiefs lose this year when Mahomes went down? See, objectively speaking, it's hard to argue that Watson is exceeding even though he's playing at a coaching disadvantage vs Mahomes who is playing with probably the 2nd best coach of this era. If you took out the Texans best offensive player and the Chiefs best offensive player, who have the best offensive players left? Does that not matter? Even if the Chiefs oline isnt top 5, its top 10. The Texans oline has ranked in the bottom 3rd for the last 3 yrs. Meanwhile, Kareem Hunt who was cut by the Chiefs was a all pro running back as a rookie and was top 3 in the league rushing before he was cut. So not only is Watson playing with a less talent, even his coach is less talented. That's not to say Mahomes isn't ultra talented, but once they traded Smith, he had a clear advantage. That's not opinion, those are facts
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
almost zero comment on the possible look of Watson's new contract? I think that says a lot right there. Caught up in bickering rather than discussing the details. Basically 190 million over 6 years and under the 35 million per I've seen posted.
I don't understand your point. He's going to be the 2nd highest paid qb in the nfl behind Mahomes. What is there to discuss? If Mahomes gets 40m per, Watson will get 38.5 per.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
McClain reported this at the time about the 3rd rd pick and it makes sense because the Texans had a higher 3rd rd pick.

My Chicago friends would disagree with you about Nagy.

Care to expand on what Mahomes flaws are. He hasn't had a turnover in the playoffs.

He put up 35 and 51 pts. I'm not seeing flaws. I'm seeing a generational Arron Rodgers type QB that's going to be starting in a SB in a couple of weeks. In fact 2 of my favorite young QB's (I wanted RS to draft both of them) are squaring off in the SB. I expect Jimmy/Mahomes to both have great games and an epic SB.
So you're blaming not drafting Jimmy G on Smith correct? When Kubiak recognized his qb on the bench in Atl, RS gave up 2 2nd rd picks and a contract for him. Now all of a sudden, Rick Smith denied Ovrien the same luxury as Kubiak? Once again, you're stuck pointing the finger at Smith vs who is the real culprit.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Let me pose this to you and others, what was the Texans record the yr Watson got hurt? How many games did the Texans win with Watson in and how many did they win after he got hurt? Then flip it, how many games did the Chiefs lose this year when Mahomes went down? See, objectively speaking, it's hard to argue that Watson is exceeding even though he's playing at a coaching disadvantage vs Mahomes who is playing with probably the 2nd best coach of this era. If you took out the Texans best offensive player and the Chiefs best offensive player, who have the best offensive players left? Does that not matter? Even if the Chiefs oline isnt top 5, its top 10. The Texans oline has ranked in the bottom 3rd for the last 3 yrs. Meanwhile, Kareem Hunt who was cut by the Chiefs was a all pro running back as a rookie and was top 3 in the league rushing before he was cut. So not only is Watson playing with a less talent, even his coach is less talented. That's not to say Mahomes isn't ultra talented, but once they traded Smith, he had a clear advantage. That's not opinion, those are facts
There's alot of validirt in this post.

The Chiefs have an Olympic track team of skill position players and Kelce.

The only guys the Texans have like that are WFV who can't stay healthy and Course who is dumb as a box of rocks. I did like the upgraded talent of skill position players the Texans added this yr . The offense should have been much better, Devlin and DW4'S lack of progression really held the offense back this year .

Strongly disagree about Reid being the 2ns best HC of this era.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
So you're blaming not drafting Jimmy G on Smith correct? When Kubiak recognized his qb on the bench in Atl, RS gave up 2 2nd rd picks and a contract for him. Now all of a sudden, Rick Smith denied Ovrien the same luxury as Kubiak? Once again, you're stuck pointing the finger at Smith vs who is the real culprit.
Yes I am,, these were 2 different situations. Kubiak helped get RS his job and as a rookie GM he listened to Kubiak. Kubiak had the juice that BOB's currently got.

On the other hand, RS was the vet and BOB was a rookie HC so RS had the juice. RS tried to get cute and got traded in front of again like with Mahomes. I thought RS had learned to go get his guy since after Jimmy G he traded up 1 spot for WFV. But after the same thing happened with Mahomes I guess it's true, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Anyways, water under the bridge, the Texans are stuck with DW4.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
There's alot of validirt in this post.

The Chiefs have an Olympic track team of skill position players and Kelce.

The only guys the Texans have like that are WFV who can't stay healthy and Course who is dumb as a box of rocks. I did like the upgraded talent of skill position players the Texans added this yr . The offense should have been much better, Devlin and DW4'S lack of progression really held the offense back this year .

Strongly disagree about Reid being the 2ns best HC of this era.
Reid is 8th on the list in wins. If he gets a ring, who are you going to place in front of him besides Hoodie?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Yes I am,, these were 2 different situations. Kubiak helped get RS his job and as a rookie GM he listened to Kubiak. Kubiak had the juice that BOB's currently got.

On the other hand, RS was the vet and BOB was a rookie HC so RS had the juice. RS tried to get cute and got traded in front of again like with Mahomes. I thought RS had learned to go get his guy since after Jimmy G he traded up 1 spot for WFV. But after the same thing happened with Mahomes I guess it's true, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Anyways, water under the bridge, the Texans are stuck with DW4.
So, he goes and get the players Kubes want, but not OBrien? You really think Smith would draft a big slow te like Fido or a cement foot guard like Xavier if it wasn't for OBrien blessing? C'mon, nothing in his dna says those are the type of players he drafts. OBrien came in talking about getting bigger, not quicker or faster. He had a 1st hand look of Fido. Not only that, what lineman has gotten better under Devlin or OBrien? Truth be told, I'm glad they're stuck with Watson. Jimmy G is a product of his coach much like Schaub. How many games can the Texans win with Watson completing 8 passes?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
So, he goes and get the players Kubes want, but not OBrien? You really think Smith would draft a big slow te like Fido or a cement foot guard like Xavier if it wasn't for OBrien blessing? C'mon, nothing in his dna says those are the type of players he drafts. OBrien came in talking about getting bigger, not quicker or faster. He had a 1st hand look of Fido. Not only that, what lineman has gotten better under Devlin or OBrien? Truth be told, I'm glad they're stuck with Watson. Jimmy G is a product of his coach much like Schaub. How many games can the Texans win with Watson completing 8 passes?
You're right about Devlin.

Also right about Jimmy G getting to work with BB/Brady/Shanny. But you should look at his record and part of that was with a bad 49ers team. You're selling Jimmy G way short. If they need a comeback, I'm confident Jimmy G will come through just like he's done many times before. Same with Mahomes which is why I think this has a chance to be an epic SB.

BTW, I think McNair's actions since RS left should tell you who was in charge of making those picks. If BOB was in charge of making those picks do you honestly think BOB would have the power he has today, or do you think Cal would've brought back his best friend/godfather?
 
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