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Off season....

badboy

Hall of Fame
Where is the history of Obrien maximizing player talents? Have any position on offense gotten better under him? Let me take it further, under Kubiak, they had a undrafted rb become all pro, a 4th rd pick at te become pro bowler, the last left tackle taken in the 1st rd become all pro. They traded for a 5th rd center, he became a probowler and they had a full back who was regarded as one of the best at his position. What has Obrien done even remotely close to that? He's not even worth keystrokes to be placed in Andy Reid class.
Well just this season Darren Fells and Carlos Hyde, Laremy Tunsil and Nick Martin (from worst 2018 59.3 to 65.5 this season); just off top of my head. On my earlier post you assume losing Watson dooms Houston to Miami status without any nod to whom we get in return; those players count.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
So, he goes and get the players Kubes want, but not OBrien? You really think Smith would draft a big slow te like Fido or a cement foot guard like Xavier if it wasn't for OBrien blessing? C'mon, nothing in his dna says those are the type of players he drafts. OBrien came in talking about getting bigger, not quicker or faster. He had a 1st hand look of Fido. Not only that, what lineman has gotten better under Devlin or OBrien? Truth be told, I'm glad they're stuck with Watson. Jimmy G is a product of his coach much like Schaub. How many games can the Texans win with Watson completing 8 passes?
OBrien ran off Brandon Brooks, Duane Brown, and Ben Jones in order to switch from a "zone" scheme to a "power" scheme. It took 3 first round picks for him to fill 2 slots on the line. He has since made Zach Martin one of the highest paid centers (why?) and has fielded some of the worst offensive lines in the history of NFL football - no hyperbole.

Not only that but why does OBrien waste a 3rd round pick on a TE ALMOST EVERY SINGLE YEAR?? That Warring dude didnt even hit the field last year, before that the Jordan Twins .. and more confusing the man wont consistently make the TE a focus of the offense. THEN WHY WASTE THE DRAFT PICKS!! LOL - our starting TE was a street FA!

Jimmy Garoppolo is a poor mans Alex Smith.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
OBrien ran off Brandon Brooks, Duane Brown, and Ben Jones in order to switch from a "zone" scheme to a "power" scheme. It took 3 first round picks for him to fill 2 slots on the line. He has since made Zach Martin one of the highest paid centers (why?) and has fielded some of the worst offensive lines in the history of NFL football - no hyperbole.

Not only that but why does OBrien waste a 3rd round pick on a TE ALMOST EVERY SINGLE YEAR?? That Warring dude didnt even hit the field last year, before that the Jordan Twins .. and more confusing the man wont consistently make the TE a focus of the offense. THEN WHY WASTE THE DRAFT PICKS!! LOL - our starting TE was a street FA!

Jimmy Garoppolo is a poor mans Alex Smith.
Bob McNair wanted DB gone and gone he was. RS didn't want to pay Brooks/Jones. Martin is as good as Jones. BTW, Who is this Zach Martin you speak of? Warring got hurt.

You might want to checkout Jimmy G's record in both the EP/WCO before making the statement you did and after he's fitted for his ring.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was

HOUSTON TEXANS: CB TROY HILL
Houston’s secondary has hindered the team's success. The unit ranked 28th in coverage grade and will see its top two cornerbacks, Johnathan Joseph and Bradley Roby — who were average at best — enter free agency. They’ll need to bring in multiple cornerbacks, and one they need to be targeting is Troy Hill. While with the Rams these past four years, Hill has never seen a full season as a starter — but his 2019 production makes him deserving of such a role. Hill’s coverage grade was among the 25 best in football, and he allowed the second lowest catch rate (45.1%). With little draft capital, Houston will have to nail free agency, and Troy Hill for a lower cost is a good start.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Well just this season Darren Fells and Carlos Hyde, Laremy Tunsil and Nick Martin (from worst 2018 59.3 to 65.5 this season); just off top of my head. On my earlier post you assume losing Watson dooms Houston to Miami status without any nod to whom we get in return; those players count.
Hyde is the same player he's always been.
He did not have the best ypa of his career nor the most TDs, and his receving production goes way down.

Fell was just used more because the Texans don't have TEs like Gresham, ebron, or Njoku.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Hyde is the same player he's always been.
He did not have the best ypa of his career nor the most TDs, and his receving production goes way down.

Fell was just used more because the Texans don't have TEs like Gresham, ebron, or Njoku.
but we draft a TE every year in the 3rd round??

 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Mahomes was playing behind a garbage OL after Fisher/Wylie/LDT were hurt and played well.

Making excuses for DW4's poor play seems to be a past time around these parts. I get it after watching DW4 for the last month why some would have to be this way. But it's wrong to try to diminish Mahomes greatness in trying to prop DW4 up. The levels of their QB play isn't even in the same stratosphere right now.
How many pro bowls did Kelce make before Mahomes?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
How many pro bowls did Kelce make before Mahomes?
I dont know and I'm not going to look it up, he's always been talents and I would think he made a few because Alex Smith, although he wasn't Mahomes he wasn't a bad QB.

BTW, what does this have to do with my post that you quoted?
 

Earl34

Veteran
You're right about Devlin.

Also right about Jimmy G getting to work with BB/Brady/Shanny. But you should look at his record and part of that was with a bad 49ers team. You're selling Jimmy G way short. If they need a comeback, I'm confident Jimmy G will come through just like he's done many times before. Same with Mahomes which is why I think this has a chance to be an epic SB.
Here is a little known fact. Watson has 10 game winning drives. Garapollo (7) and Mahomes (4) combine for 11. So, Watson has come through more times than Jimmy G. However, my guess is you would never mention Watson coming through. Especially when you have that 51-7 card to play.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_active.htm
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Here is a little known fact. Watson has 10 game winning drives. Garapollo (7) and Mahomes (4) combine for 11. So, Watson has come through more times than Jimmy G. However, my guess is you would never mention Watson coming through. Especially when you have that 51-7 card to play.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_active.htm
I didn't look it up, but I will bet DW4's started more games than Jimmy G has. Since you're a stat guy I'll let you look this up.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Jimmy G has had the benefit of sitting under Brady and Belichek and has a decent line in front of him.
More excuses.

They've started roughly the same number of games. Jimmy G has the accuracy/anticipation I keep talking about and a lightening quick release. He also has poise in the pocket and knows when to tthrow the ball away. This is really only his 2nd yr of starting and he lead his team to the SB and did this spending time this offseason rehabbing from an ACL.

Jimmy G is really good, people will look at him not having to throw the ball in the playoffs and say he's not that good. They should go back and checkout the New Orleans game where he had to throw the ball and looked very good.

Look at his record even during the last 6 games of the 2017 season, he was quite good (Won them all) and that was on a bad 49ers team. Look at their record in 2018 without Jimmy G. (2nd pick in the draft kind of bad.)
 

Texansphan

All Pro
More excuses.

They've started roughly the same number of games. Jimmy G has the accuracy/anticipation I keep talking about and a lightening quick release. He also has poise in the pocket and knows when to tthrow the ball away. This is really only his 2nd yr of starting and he lead his team to the SB and did this spending time this offseason rehabbing from an ACL.

Jimmy G is really good, people will look at him not having to throw the ball in the playoffs and say he's not that good. They should go back and checkout the New Orleans game where he had to throw the ball and looked very good.

Look at his record even during the last 6 games of the 2017 season, he was quite good (Won them all) and that was on a bad 49ers team. Look at their record in 2018 without Jimmy G. (2nd pick in the draft kind of bad.)
Iirc, you said DW4 had more starts.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
I said it wouldn't surprise me if DW4 had more starts and encouraged the poster to look it up.

It was close.
Yeah gonna call your hand here a little bit Steel... did you not bring it up to explain why DW4 would have more game-winning drives than Jimmy? Turns out since Jimmy has more starts than DW4, shouldn't he have more game-winning drives? :)

Yanking your chain a bit - and don't start with the Jimmy hater stuff either I like him, think he's talented and wish him success, just not in the SB where I'm rooting Mahomes (since I also wanted Mahomes in the draft, so turns out I'm a draft expert too).
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yeah gonna call your hand here a little bit Steel... did you not bring it up to explain why DW4 would have more game-winning drives than Jimmy? Turns out since Jimmy has more starts than DW4, shouldn't he have more game-winning drives? :)

Yanking your chain a bit - and don't start with the Jimmy hater stuff either I like him, think he's talented and wish him success, just not in the SB where I'm rooting Mahomes (since I also wanted Mahomes in the draft, so turns out I'm a draft expert too).
You dont need GW drives when you're ahead at the ahead at the end of games. He's lead GW comebacks when he's had too, there just haven't been as many times as he's had to do it as DW4 has.

BTW, I'm torn on who I want to win this SB because these are my 2 favorite young QB's in the NFL today. I wanted the Texans to draft both of them. (Thanks RS)

With that said I'm going to root for the 49ers because I want to see Lil Shanny and Lynch get a Lombardi. If Reid/Mahomes win I will be very happy for the Chiefs though.

Think about Mahomes 2 yrs as a starter. AFCCG loses in overtime after bringing his team back for a late score to tie the game and doesn't get the ball back in OT so the Chiefs lose. This yr he lead comebacks in both games to get his team to the SB. We're watching true greatness from such a young guy and the Texans are going to be chasing this for a decade. Think about this, Mahomes would be a Texan if RS had given up a 3rd. The Teans had a 3rd that was higher than the Chiefs to use to trade up.

Thanks RS, it will take a decade to overcome that decision. Regardless of who the HC is. Mahomes is a younger/better version of Rodgers.



Like Richard Sherman said earlier this week, only a fool would say Jimmy G isn't a stud QB, or something to that effect.
 
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Earl34

Veteran
Like Richard Sherman said earlier this week, only a fool would say Jimmy G isn't a stud QB, or something to that effect.
That's great you value Richard Sherman's opinion. After the Seahawks beat the Texans 41-38, Sherman said the following about Watson:
:bubble:

"'You played the best game any quarterback has ever played against us, and we've played all the legends. I respect how you hung in there and kept battling and battling,'" he said.

"My God, Houston's so lucky. By next year he's going to be a top-five quarterback in this league, and that includes the two big dogs [Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers]. He makes you dig to the deepest part of your competitive juices to beat him," he told The MMQB.com.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21227042/richard-sherman-seattle-seahawks-deshaun-watson-houston-texans-soon-top-five-qb-nfl
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That's great you value Richard Sherman's opinion. After the Seahawks beat the Texans 41-38, Sherman said the following about Watson:
:bubble:

"'You played the best game any quarterback has ever played against us, and we've played all the legends. I respect how you hung in there and kept battling and battling,'" he said.

"My God, Houston's so lucky. By next year he's going to be a top-five quarterback in this league, and that includes the two big dogs [Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers]. He makes you dig to the deepest part of your competitive juices to beat him," he told The MMQB.com.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21227042/richard-sherman-seattle-seahawks-deshaun-watson-houston-texans-soon-top-five-qb-nfl
This was totally true until DC's figured DW4 out.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
More excuses.

They've started roughly the same number of games. Jimmy G has the accuracy/anticipation I keep talking about and a lightening quick release. He also has poise in the pocket and knows when to tthrow the ball away. This is really only his 2nd yr of starting and he lead his team to the SB and did this spending time this offseason rehabbing from an ACL.

Jimmy G is really good, people will look at him not having to throw the ball in the playoffs and say he's not that good. They should go back and checkout the New Orleans game where he had to throw the ball and looked very good.

Look at his record even during the last 6 games of the 2017 season, he was quite good (Won them all) and that was on a bad 49ers team. Look at their record in 2018 without Jimmy G. (2nd pick in the draft kind of bad.)
So in 2017 , he threw 7 tds 5 picks and the team won the last 5 games. In that same season Watson took over for a qb who OBrien had been grooming for 3 yrs and went 3-3, 19 pass td, 2 rush tds, 8 picks, 1900 yds passing, 270 rushing. Once Watson went down, they won 1 game. You're trying to compare Jimmy G to Watson? Once again, if you give Watson the number to rush game,and top 2 defense overall, I'm sure he would be SB bound.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So in 2017 , he threw 7 tds 5 picks and the team won the last 5 games. In that same season Watson took over for a qb who OBrien had been grooming for 3 yrs and went 3-3, 19 pass td, 2 rush tds, 8 picks, 1900 yds passing, 270 rushing. Once Watson went down, they won 1 game. You're trying to compare Jimmy G to Watson? Once again, if you give Watson the number to rush game,and top 2 defense overall, I'm sure he would be SB bound.
Jimmy G's won in both offenses WC/EP and the defense wasn't good when Jimmy G 1st got to San Fran. Look at what happened to them last yr without Jimmy G, they were even worse than the Texans without DW4.

The numbers were DW4's numbers his rookie yr. DC's have figured DW4 out and he needs to change his game. What used to work doesn't work against top flight defenses.

He had 8 avg to poor games this yr. Most against better defenses. 10 great games, very inconsistent.

8 games were the last 5 games of the season and the Jags/Panthers/Raiders games. Go check them out and tell me not only what' BOB's doing wrong (There's plenty) but also what DW4 needs to do to improve in your opinion.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Jimmy G's won in both offenses WC/EP and the defense wasn't good when Jimmy G 1st got to San Fran. Look at what happened to them last yr without Jimmy G, they were even worse than the Texans without DW4.

The numbers were DW4's numbers his rookie yr. DC's have figured DW4 out and he needs to change his game. What used to work doesn't work against top flight defenses.

He had 8 avg to poor games this yr. Most against better defenses. 10 great games, very inconsistent.

8 games were the last 5 games of the season and the Jags/Panthers/Raiders games. Go check them out and tell me not only what' BOB's doing wrong (There's plenty) but also what DW4 needs to do to improve in your opinion.
See how you glossed over the Jimmy G thing? How are you as a qb winning 5 games in a row with 7tds and 5picks, yet a rookie throwd 19 tds ,2 rushing tds and goes 3 and 3? What about last yr with the 49ers? 5tds 3 ints. Jimmy G is Kirk Cousins. If he has everything, he can win games. Give him the 31st ranked defense, bottom tier ol, and see how many wins he can get you. You keep repeating DCs have caught up with Watson, go watch the all 22 and watch how predictable the route combinations are from the Texans are based on their formations and personel. Go back and watch the Panthers game and watch how many times Obrien allowed the Panthers to rob all the inside routes without any adjustments. No arrow routes by Duke. No seam routes by the tight ends. The pressure coming from the right side, yet no screen pass or nothing. Just 3 man route, max protect ,over routes vs cover 3. If I can see it , why cant a guy making millions?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
See how you glossed over the Jimmy G thing? How are you as a qb winning 5 games in a row with 7tds and 5picks, yet a rookie throwd 19 tds ,2 rushing tds and goes 3 and 3? What about last yr with the 49ers? 5tds 3 ints. Jimmy G is Kirk Cousins. If he has everything, he can win games. Give him the 31st ranked defense, bottom tier ol, and see how many wins he can get you. You keep repeating DCs have caught up with Watson, go watch the all 22 and watch how predictable the route combinations are from the Texans are based on their formations and personel. Go back and watch the Panthers game and watch how many times Obrien allowed the Panthers to rob all the inside routes without any adjustments. No arrow routes by Duke. No seam routes by the tight ends. The pressure coming from the right side, yet no screen pass or nothing. Just 3 man route, max protect ,over routes vs cover 3. If I can see it , why cant a guy making millions?
I can see this too, but in that game the Panthers gave DW4 the throw to the flat to Hyde all game long and also Fells/Akins on or outside of the hash and DW4 didn't get them the ball.

Funny thing is despite all of the predictable route combinations, DW4 misses WFV 2 or 3 times on long TD passes. That's why he was back out on the field throwing deep throws after the game?

Also why did he have 10 good/great games if the route combinations were as bad as you make them out to be?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I can see this too, but in that game the Panthers gave DW4 the throw to the flat to Hyde all game long and also Fells/Akins on or outside of the hash and DW4 didn't get them the ball.

Funny thing is despite all of the predictable route combinations, DW4 misses WFV 2 or 3 times on long TD passes. That's why he was back out on the field throwing deep throws after the game?

Also why did he have 10 good/great games if the route combinations were as bad as you make them out to be?
Also you're glossing over the fact that the 49ers defense wasn't good the yr Jimmy G got traded to them. It's the reason Jimmy G got paid despite a shallow resume.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
NFCCG, Shanny pretty much shut JimmyG down after throwing an interception. & they still won.

If O'Brien shuts Watson down he's left with 3 & outs & hoping his defense can put up points.
The 9ers won TWO playoff games with Jimmy throwing a total of 208 yards from 27 attempts. And not only did they win, they crushed their opponents.

This isn't a slam on Jimmy, but the 9ers are in the SB because they are the most balanced team in the league.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
The 9ers won TWO playoff games with Jimmy throwing a total of 208 yards from 27 attempts. And not only did they win, they crushed their opponents.

This isn't a slam on Jimmy, but the 9ers are in the SB because they are the most balanced team in the league.
They also have the best dline in football.
And their secondary is not too shabby either.
 

KarlK

Waterboy
So in 2017 , he threw 7 tds 5 picks and the team won the last 5 games. In that same season Watson took over for a qb who OBrien had been grooming for 3 yrs and went 3-3, 19 pass td, 2 rush tds, 8 picks, 1900 yds passing, 270 rushing. Once Watson went down, they won 1 game. You're trying to compare Jimmy G to Watson? Once again, if you give Watson the number to rush game,and top 2 defense overall, I'm sure he would be SB bound.
By design, Watson will never play with a number 2 rush game and a top 2 defense.

He and O'Brien calls his own number ball WAY too much for him to ever be on a team that might have a top run offense. And he'll get paid WAY too much money for any team he's on to be able to assemble a top 2 defense.

If he ever makes it to a Super Bowl, it's gonna have to be him putting a team on his shoulders, which he isn't good enough to do.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
See how you glossed over the Jimmy G thing? How are you as a qb winning 5 games in a row with 7tds and 5picks, yet a rookie throwd 19 tds ,2 rushing tds and goes 3 and 3? What about last yr with the 49ers? 5tds 3 ints. Jimmy G is Kirk Cousins. If he has everything, he can win games. Give him the 31st ranked defense, bottom tier ol, and see how many wins he can get you. You keep repeating DCs have caught up with Watson, go watch the all 22 and watch how predictable the route combinations are from the Texans are based on their formations and personel. Go back and watch the Panthers game and watch how many times Obrien allowed the Panthers to rob all the inside routes without any adjustments. No arrow routes by Duke. No seam routes by the tight ends. The pressure coming from the right side, yet no screen pass or nothing. Just 3 man route, max protect ,over routes vs cover 3. If I can see it , why cant a guy making millions?
You haven't watched a thing in Jimmy's career. You're totally clueless to it.

He went to the 49ers and they were one of the top 3 worst teams in the league and went on like 6 or 7 game winning streak with that same awful team and no offensive weapons that season. He turned their entire attitude around. He got hurt the next season and the team fell apart again. This year he is back and they were the best team in the NFC all season. Sure, they've had a great running game and that's been their biggest strength on offense, but so what? That doesn't make it a knock on Jimmy, because he isn't better than his exceptional running game. He threw for 27 TD's and 13 INT's and 4,000 passing yards. That was all good enough to get them the #1 seed in the entire NFC which was the better conference this year so don't sit here and pout like Jimmy needed to do so much more when their team got #1 seed and his passing stats are what they were. Its his first full season playing 16 games as well. He's on a ridiculous pace to start his career actually.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Never said Jimmy G was no good.
He has looked good but how many times has he thrown over 200 yards against quality D's this season?
9ers D has been their identity this season.
They are a very well balanced team that can win multiple ways. Their D can shut you down, the running game can dominate... and if the game calls for it, Jimmy can sling it. So far in the playoffs, Jimmy hasn't been needed. Will be interesting to see if the Chiefs jump out to a 3 possession lead, and they rely on Jimmy, how will he respond?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
You haven't watched a thing in Jimmy's career. You're totally clueless to it.

He went to the 49ers and they were one of the top 3 worst teams in the league and went on like 6 or 7 game winning streak with that same awful team and no offensive weapons that season. He turned their entire attitude around. He got hurt the next season and the team fell apart again. This year he is back and they were the best team in the NFC all season. Sure, they've had a great running game and that's been their biggest strength on offense, but so what? That doesn't make it a knock on Jimmy, because he isn't better than his exceptional running game. He threw for 27 TD's and 13 INT's and 4,000 passing yards. That was all good enough to get them the #1 seed in the entire NFC which was the better conference this year so don't sit here and pout like Jimmy needed to do so much more when their team got #1 seed and his passing stats are what they were. Its his first full season playing 16 games as well. He's on a ridiculous pace to start his career actually.
They won 5 games in a row, he threw 7tds and 5 ints. Trust me, I watched him like I watch everyone else. I've had Sunday Ticket since 96. I've had the all 22 package since inception also.
 

Earl34

Veteran
You're right about Devlin.

Also right about Jimmy G getting to work with BB/Brady/Shanny. But you should look at his record and part of that was with a bad 49ers team. You're selling Jimmy G way short.
If they need a comeback, I'm confident Jimmy G will come through just like he's done many times before. Same with Mahomes which is why I think this has a chance to be an epic SB.
I have to admit. When I saw JimmyG throwing INTs with his eyes closed and overthrowing a wide open WR by 10 yards, I thought about your posts in this thread and actually laughed.

During an interview Mathieu said they were happy when JimmyG had to throw the ball. LMAO
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I have to admit. When I saw JimmyG throwing INTs with his eyes closed and overthrowing a wide open WR by 10 yards, I thought about your posts in this thread and actually laughed.

During an interview Mathieu said they were happy when JimmyG had to throw the ball. LMAO
Yep, he just missed Sanders on that Bomb after K.C. took the lead.
 

zshawn10

All Pro
All 7 rounds of the 2020 NFL draft predicted right here. https://t.co/1bsZ4k0W4k

— Matt Miller (@nfldraftscout) February 3, 2020

57. TEXANS: WR Jalen Reagor, TCU
101.* TEXANS: EDGE Darrell Taylor, Tennessee
108. TEXANS (MIA): CB Lamar Jackson, Nebraska
128. TEXANS: LB Jacob Phillips, LSU
172. TEXANS: OT Saahdiq Charles, LSU
241.TEXANS: RB Tony Jones Jr., Notre Dame
249.* TEXANS: IOL Darryl Williams, Miss. State
250.* TEXANS: S Myles Dorn, North Carolina
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I have to admit. When I saw JimmyG throwing INTs with his eyes closed and overthrowing a wide open WR by 10 yards, I thought about your posts in this thread and actually laughed.

During an interview Mathieu said they were happy when JimmyG had to throw the ball. LMAO
I've mentioned it before, but Jimmy is nothing special to me. He's a solid QB, but don't think he'll ever be a "top-tier" guy.

Seth Payne on 610 called him "A sexier Ryan Fitzpatrick" this morning... lol.
 


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