infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Totally agreed.
Sorry but having a HoF QB on the roster who's playing bad doesn't make perfect.
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- Thread starter 76Texan
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Totally agreed.
Sorry but having a HoF QB on the roster who's playing bad doesn't make perfect.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
And this would be the firs time you ever said that, so please stop with these lies dude. You were bound and determined to undermine and **** all over whatever new HC came in here. You trashed the Texans organization after they fired Kubiak after giving the man 8 YEARS!! And only a complete buffoon wouldn't understand why a HC was fired after being the worst team in the league after 8 years. Whether you like someone or not, its common sense that they're very likely to lose their job. Yet, you couldn't fathom how it could happen. One of the main reasons why I enjoy sticking it to you is because of how unreasonable you are and how obvious it is that you want the Texans to crash and burn until OB is gone. My question now would be are you going to come back to the team if OB ever gets fired? Will that be good enough for you? Will that settle the score Scooter? Or will you take your venom out on the next HC as well? And whats even more interesting is that I don't ever hear you take your rage out on Rick Smith who was just as bad as Kubiak was here and he somehow escaped from being slaughtered like Kubiak was.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
As Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, etc have proven, you don't need an elite QB when you have an elite defense. Kubiak walked into a job coaching the best defense in football. Probably the best defense since the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens. It didn't matter how much Peyton sucked.
And let's not forget, our shiny new QB was a nice little backup for Gary to get to have. In fact without him, they probably don't even make the playoffs.
So yeah for Gary and Wade, the duo, it was as perfect a situation as you could ask for.
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Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Anyone acting like Kubiak was some big time hero for that Broncos win clearly has no clue on the history of the Broncos over the last few years or they didn't watch at all last season. The Broncos were a top 3 offense before Kubiak got there and the year before that they had the best offense of all time. Their cupboard was loaded with offensive weapons, and as soon as Kubiak got there it became one of the worst offenses in the league. Now that wasn't all Kubiak's fault, and I'm not saying that, but the team won strictly with defense. Anyone giving credit to Manning for that SB win last season is just as clueless as Manning was the worst QB in the league last season.
Elway is the guy that deserves the credit for that. He kept building and building that team year after year. I have no idea how they managed that cap and kept adding all those studs on that team. Their financial guys that handled their salary cap were by far the best in the NFL. Wade is the other guy that deserves the credit, because he took a very good defense full of studs and made them an all time great defense. The credit that I will give to Gary Kubiak is for "staying out of the way". But pretty much everyone in Denver knows that Kubiak may be the HC, but Elway is the boss and Kubiak doesn't have the control over that franchise like he did in Houston with stooges like Mcnair and Rick Smith.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Well and the irony is, Kubiak has ridden Elway's jock to 3 of his 4 Super Bowl wins. But you're right on the money. I mean dude had 2 top 15 WRs on his roster, two pretty good RBs, one of the best backup QBs in the game (one worthy of a starting opportunity), a HOF QB to help guide the ship, and the best defense in football.
Kubiak should be worshipping the ground Elway walks on.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
If I recall, when both Jimmy G and Savage were coming out of college, they were the only 2 QB's that BOB had personal workouts with. I really believe that BOB was going to draft Jimmy G with the 1st pick in the 3rd round be his old buddy "Belicheat" snatched him up about 2 picks before. As for trying to go after him this off season, I don't think there's any way Belichick would give him up. I really believe he is the "heir apparent" to Brady. Now if Brady keeps playing at a high level and Jimmy gets tired of waiting, he could pull an Osweiler!
We don't know any of that. The fact is the Pats lost a lot of draft picks so they were there for the pickings for a trade. That doesn't mean they would have made the trade, but I'm personally high enough on Jimmy G that I would have traded our first round pick. I don't care where he was drafted. I think Jimmy G has more potential than any of the 1st rounders of this season personally, but I could be dead wrong. Just my opinion. I don't know man. Like I told Cak, maybe we did call and discuss it. I'm inclined to think we "probably" did, but OB is just as secretive as BB is so we'll never know. Personally, I like that about OB just as much as I like that about BB. It annoys the media and it really annoys the rest of the league. Jimmy may be the heir apparent, but that all depends on how he plays in the first 4 games and how well Brady dodges big injuries, because as well as Brady is still playing on big hit on a play could change all of that for a 38 year old. If Brady can manage to avoid that, he likely could go for another 2 or 3 years, since their offense is predicated off of a lot of short pass routes where his intelligence is key. Brady doesn't have to be a bomb toting QB to be successful with a rocket arm like many others have to.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He pretty much does. He's been Elway's ***** pretty much his entire career.
And to be perfectly honest, it has worked out well for him. It may sound harsh, but its really not a bad thing when you think about it.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Where and when was this SB trophy going to be lifted in Houston? Wasn't that supposed to happen in the 8 years he was here? Isn't that all you ever talk about is how one or two media morons picked us to go to the SB and how great the roster was, but all Kubiak could manage was 2-14? Wasn't that the year it was supposed to happen? Or was it the year they went 10-1 and then completely unraveled into the worst team in the league the last 4 games where this site practically erupted headed into the playoffs and they got smoked by the Patriots for the 2nd time that year? Come on man, I'd like to hear this one.
So answer the question, are you going to hate the next coach in Houston (Whenever that may be) or will your sissy little tirade be over once OB is done in this city?
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
You genuinely believe with the way the team quit on Kubiak in his final season here, Schaub collapsing, no future QB anywhere on the roster, and so many other issues that this team would have won the Super Bowl last year? Do you really believe that? And if so, who would have been our QB to magically get us there?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Manning threw 38 TD's the season before Kubiak got there. They also had one of the best receiving duos in the entire league. It wasn't just Manning that dropped off in his play last season. Thomas didn't play nearly as well under Kubiak either, and their running game didn't got worse as well. Pretty much every aspect of the offense declined. I'm not saying it was all Kubiak's fault either, but their offense contributed pretty much nothing towards that SB.
Honestly Cak, as much as I have bashed the guy in here as HC I recognize Kubiak as a good person. He seems like a great man. Him and Wade both.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
So is it just OB that Scooter hates or the entire Texans organization? Does he root for success in the playoffs or hope the team fails just so OB will get fired?
I really have a difficult time understanding "fans" like this. I learned a long time ago not to get attached to players or coaches. My wake up call was probably when Hakeem went to the Raptors. In sports, you rarely get the storybook ending you are hoping for. Hell even with Bags and Biggio, we never got to see them win a ring. Sports just doesn't seem to follow the script we makeup in our own head.
Scooter
Funky
I believe McNair/Smith are why the team quit by doing things like bringing in Ed Reed without even informing the defensive coordinator and telling players to skip the chain of command. I believe that after 2-14 the players would've rallied the following season because they didn't want to go through that mess again. I believe that Kubiak/Wade would get a hell of a lot more out of this roster than O'Brien can. I believe that Bridgewater would've been perfect for Kubiak (taken either at #1 or trading up into the middle of the first round) and he'd be leading us to 10+ wins and playoff wins over the past two seasons.
That's what I think.
Scooter
Funky
The reason I'm going around this circle is because I'm angry not that Kubiak is gone, but because I feel Kubiak being gone cost us a chance at winning. I was excited and thought we genuinely had a chance to go to a Superbowl. I don't get that feeling anymore, hell I'm having trouble feeling much at all about this current team. It makes me doubly angry that the coaching staff that I was so excited about winning a trophy for us actually DID win the Superbowl ... somewhere else.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Manning threw 38 TD's the season before Kubiak got there. They also had one of the best receiving duos in the entire league. It wasn't just Manning that dropped off in his play last season. Thomas didn't play nearly as well under Kubiak either, and their running game didn't got worse as well. Pretty much every aspect of the offense declined. I'm not saying it was all Kubiak's fault either, but their offense contributed pretty much nothing towards that SB.
Honestly Cak, as much as I have bashed the guy in here as HC I recognize Kubiak as a good person. He seems like a great man. Him and Wade both. Good for him for getting his first ring as a HC either way.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
I can agree with you on one thing. I'd have LOVED Bridgewater. He'd have been a great QB for a Kubiak offense. Really accurate and smart QB. Everything else I just think you're hanging on a wing and a prayer. Yeah, signing Ed Reed was dumb but if you think that's the entire reason for the mess this team was in, then I just can't see how you were paying as much attention as you claim. In my opinion, the team quit on Schaub. Because Gary kept trying to force feed Schaub down their throats, they quit on Gary. They knew he and Schaub were tied at the hip and when Schaub fell, Kubiak came crashing down with him.
I can't be too mean to you, because I think Kubiak is a really good guy. But he needed to go.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
So it's all Smith and Mcnair's fault even though Kubiak had all types of control in this franchise and big time influence over both guys especially since he was the only reason why Smith got hired here. Lol!
Yeah, and you said that pretty much every off season in the 8 years while he was here where that never even came close to happening. Your track record of predicting things for Kubiak is about as bad as that 2-14 record was.
Scooter
Funky
I predicted he'd win a Superbowl.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
It is sad Kubiak and crew had to go win their title somewhere else. There's just something inexplicable about the Kubiak/Elway marriage. Kubiak was never going to win here. Ever. It was over.
Unless you're switching over to becoming a Broncos fan, it'll be better for your life and your health to just let it go. This was a playoff team last year with a garbage offense. We only lost one guy on defense (Crick), and the offense finally has some speed, more WRs than just Hopkins, a young QB with potential, and one of the best young RBs in the game. Enjoy the possibilities.
There is absolutely no reason that team should have won the Super Bowl. Nothing "perfect" about that situation at all.
No one is thinking Denver has a shot at winning the Super Bowl in 2016, where the QB, whoever it is. Will probably perform better than Peyton did last season.
Kubiak coached his butt off to get enough out of his offense to get that defense to the #1 seed in the AFC.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Tell me again, exactly how many draft picks did O'Brien give up for Osweiler?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
It didn't happen man.
I don't know what you predicted when he got to Denver, but anyone who did would have been predicting that about a team that was highly favored to go to the SB since they had been there just two years prior and the 2nd round the year before and had still been stacking that roster. Your track record on saying what Kubiak will do has not been a good one. When will you answer the question about the next HC? You going to be a fan again if OB gets fired or are you going to pray for the next HC's downfall?
Scooter
Funky
I'm a fan, letting things go about my team isn't an option lol. I'm trying to get excited, I really am. I said as much during the draft that I'm hopeful about this infusion of speed. I'll be here with something to complain about for as long as my team is in Houston though, usually after several whiskeys. This team will be the death of me one way or another.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Yep, no reason the 2000 Ravens, 2013 Seahawks (with a 2nd year QB at the helm), 2002 Buccaneers, and a myriad of other elite defense/average QB combinations have won Super Bowls. Most everyone predicted the 2015 Broncos would make the playoffs. Sure, no one thought Manning's arm would give out completely the way it did, but everyone saw them winning that division. Once you make the playoffs, anything can happen and as we've seen time and time again, an elite defense and good running game is what can carry you in the playoffs. Their defense was the best in the postseason by a HUGE margin, and CJ Anderson ran for the most yards in the postseason. There was every reason for that team to win the Super Bowl.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Why in the hell does that matter? OB got his man without trading a damn thing. Sounds pretty good to me.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Forget just the defense. They were the best offense of all time statistically two years prior with all the same weapons practically other than Welker and Thomas. The year before that Manning threw for 38 TD's and they were neck and neck with the Patriots for the AFC #1 seed. Notice, that no one has tried to address that and how badly their offense fell off from top 3 to one of the worst with Kubiak. They won a Sb with nothing but defense. Look at the only good years that Kubiak had in Houston. Both of those years were when our defense was top notch under Wade. The first season wasn't all Kubes fault since Schaub got hurt and Yates was in there, but the fact remains the great defense is exactly what got them to 10-6. Actually Kubiak's best season of coaching from an offensive standpoint in the last 10 years was when he was an OC with the Ravens which is what he is best suited for.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
That's certainly a valid point. It does make you wonder why both Thomas and Sanders regressed as much as they did. Sure, Peyton started stinking up the joint but with those two guys, you and I could just about get back there and complete some passes. We're talking two top 15 WRs in their prime. The running game wasn't too shabby either. They weren't world beaters, but Anderson and Hillman aren't scrubs either. Either would have been better than anything the Texans trotted out at RB last year.
McNair always had to force Kubiak's hand to make the right call. The team never started turning around until McNair hired Wade as DC. Before then, Kubiak was tied at the hip to Dick Smith. Just look at how long it took him to fire Joe Marciano. Dude hadn't been a good special teams coach in Kubiak's entire tenure. Yet, Kubiak stood by the hack until it got his ass thrown out the door.
So glad those frustrating times are over.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Same as me, and that is exactly why Kubiak may do better in Denver in the long term, because he'll never have a long leash of decisions. Elway is very over bearing and he wants to control it all. Lets be real here, their previous HC should not have been fired. He did a fantastic job there, and he is a great HC. He wouldn't do everything that Elway wanted him to do. That is why he lost his job. Hell, the man had been to the playoffs for three straight years and never was lower than the 2nd round. One of those years was due to that stupid Jacoby Jones play as well, and they went to the SB in the middle year. Elway couldn't control Fox though, and he knew he could get Kubiak over there and he has a great relationship with Kubiak and knows that he can control it all. I hate Elway man. Always have, but I can't help but to respect the man's great job he has done. Even after hiring Kubiak and Wade and bringing in more players that franchise got a SB ring. Kubiak won't have the ability to be so loyal to all of his coaches like he was here. Elway won't have it, and he is the GM and he'll pull the plug quick.
I have no problem in saying that Kubiak is a good coach. Dude has a history as an offensive-minded coach of being part of several championship teams.
I guess it's just too much to expect for you Kubiak fanboys to give O'Brien any credit. The lopsided logic is what I cannot understand. Unless, of course, someone has an agenda to defend. Then everything starts to make sense in that circular logic sort of way.
I'm not sure what McNair has to do with anything. I've never seen him call plays or be a part of the coaching staff. He's the dude that signs checks, and may or may not serve in some capacity of varying degrees as a Wizard of OZ general manager.
The Broncos defense wasn't any more elite than ours was last season. Or Kansas City's or Seattle's.
Denver won the Super Bowl so their defense is "elite"
We would have said the same thing had KC or Seattle won.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
So how in the hell did they get the #1 seed then in the AFC? Manning was about to break the record for INT's before getting hurt. They had one of the worst offenses in the league. How in the hell did they win if they didn't have an elite defense? How did they win in the post season without hardly scoring a whole lot? They were 4th in points allowed per game in the regular season at 18.5 while first was at 17.9. The only reason they weren't first is due to all of the TO's from the offense where the defense was in a bad position. They led the league in INT's as well. The offense finished 29th in the league in giveaways, turning the ball over 31 times, including three interceptions returned for touchdowns.
You had to be trying to troll when you wrote this. Wade's first year defenses are usually elite everywhere he goes. Its what he does. What he did here in Houston in one season was remarkable even though it fell apart quick.
Actually, the 2015 Broncos defense is statistically in the top 10 of best defenses in NFL history:
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
The agenda has been so glaringly obvious since OB got here. Now he is here to **** all over Osweiller after Oz just played for his favorite team and went 5-2 for them which he bragged about all season, but now that he is a Houston Texan, he is dragging him down to Manziel levels because he plays under OB and didn't want to play for Kubes and Elway.
Personally I find it pretty amusing, that we're headed into year 3 and this guy just can't let it go. He comes in here just to stick it to Houston fans every chance he gets. The minute that Oz is no longer a Bronco and comes over here he gets trashed by him. Talk about the irony. I actually get a kick out of this guy, because he denies the agenda regardless of how obvious it is. We both know that Oz is going to have some growing pains to start the season with all these other new young players in the new offense especially with this questionable Oline. He'll be bashing him every week. Wait for it........
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
And I'd argue with how much the league has shifted in recent years to much more high powered passing offenses that they could be as high as top 5. Just in the last 10 years, we've seen passing yardage shoot up considerably and with the way the league penalizes defenses, it's incredibly hard to have a truly elite defense. They also faced QBs like Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Andrew Luck, Ben Roethlisberger, and next tier QBs like Joe Flacco, Alex Smith, Philip Rivers, and Andy Dalton. So it wasn't exactly an easy schedule either going against some QBs that could really sling the ball.
There is no logical argument that can be made indicating the Denver Broncos had anything less than an elite defense in 2015.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
That is why I had said that it had to have been troll bait. Here is an article that breaks down exactly what you just indicated that puts this era's high passing statistics into perspective when comparing the Broncos D to the best defenses of all time like the Steelers, Ravens, Bears, and the Bucs.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/pro...-one-of-the-greatest-nfl-defenses-of-all-time
If I had to pick one of those defenses as the all time best, I'd probably roll with the Ravens. I think most people would say the 85 Bears, but that's another conversation all together.
Coaching
That's an excellent point. I never thought about it in context of the arena league passing rules now in place in the NFL.
You're lying out of your teeth.
I never said such thing.
I actually spelled out the things Hopkins needed to do to become a legitimate no. 1 receiver.
And he did just that.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
They were already there the previous three years with another coaching staff. Try again.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Gotta disagree.
Denver played well enough in the first 7 weeks of the season to average allowing 17 points a game, and begin the road to a #1 overall seed. The Texans D gave up 28.4 ppg over the first seven weeks. They then gave up 30 points in the WC round. If you want to limit it to the last 9 games of the RS, then yeah, the Texans D was just as elite as Denver. Last I checked, every game (especially the playoff games) counts.
Denver averaged giving up less than 15 ppg in the playoffs, and that included playing three of the top 4 offenses (as ranked by points scored) in the NFL.
KC gave up 27 points to NE to end their playoff run (Denver gave up 18 points to them). Seattle gave up 31 points to Carolina to end their playoff run (Denver held them to 10 points in the Super Bowl).
So yeah, when it mattered, there was a clear difference between those defenses. Saying Denver's D is only called elite because they won the SB and we would have said the same thing about Seattle or KC had they won is akin to saying Denver's only called World Champions because they won the SB, and had Seattle or KC won, we would have called them World Champions too (in other words, accurate, but meaningless).
Texian
Hall of Fame
I think Kubiak will have success in Denver from the simple standpoint of he doesn't have full control and final say of the 53 man roster.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Well Elway's short history shows that he'll be very aggressive in getting the best players available. However, now they have the burden of finding a top tier QB again. Sometimes that takes years especially if you get a mildly good one that makes you think he'll turn into something big and never does. Or if you end up with two guys that are average and it is hard to decide who is the right guy. They seem to be in that place now. By next season a lot of those high priced players they have will leave for bigger contracts that the Broncs can't all pay. Teams can only pay so many big time guys. We'll see how Elway manages that cap as those contracts come up for renewal. Remember that Wade Phillips defenses usually drop off a lot especially by year 3 as well and if they are elite again this year Wade might finally get another HC gig again as well. Kubiak's only good seasons he has ever had as HC is when Wade's defenses were terrific. I do think that Denver is a better situation for Kubiak since Elway will constantly keep that fire lit under his ass.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Yep, I always thought that Kubiak's 2 biggest weaknesses as a HC was his assistant coach selection and having control of the roster. I agree I think he's a very good offensive and QB mind but what limited him there was final say on the roster..
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
His play sets were pretty nice with his play actions and what not, but I never thought he was that great of an offensive mind personally. His handcuffing of his QB's bugged the crap out of me at how he wouldn't allow guys to audible at the line of scrimmage. I also didn't like how long it would take him to make adjustments. It seemed like he always would wait until it was way to late where the adjustment would be made, and then you'd see the success of the adjustments. I didn't like the way he called games, because he had such a tunnel vision philosophy that he didn't like to deviate from under different circumstances. I didn't like how he always just wanted to get small first half leads and then would play conservative ball control and would sit on them in the entire 2nd half where teams could get a few plays and then they'd have full momentum their way for a come back. And yeah, his control over the roster was always a problem, because he had way to much loyalty to under performing players. Personally I'm just glad he's gone, but I really wish that Smith would have gone with him. If we would have fired Kubiak after year 5 we might have had a shot at Cowher at the time when he was looking at other teams to coach. I really wish we would have seen Cowher land somewhere. I guess he won't go back to coaching at this point.
So that takes coaching out of there picture?
One coaching staff did a great job getting a team to the Super Bowl. The other coaching staff didn't do jack shtick to get that same team to the Super Bowl two years later...
Not holding water.
This is kinda like calling Joe Flacco elite & saying Peyton is just another QB.
Flacco doing well in the playoffs doesn't minimize what Peyton did.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Man forget Kubiak and the Broncos. It's all about the Texans.
Let's go Texans
Let's go Texans
Texian
Hall of Fame
Well I'm going to get BBQed for saying this but I doubt any top notch high level profile coach would agree to come to Houston as long as McNair is the GM. I see McNair giving up that position about like I see Jerry Jones retiring as the Cowboys GM. Like I said before, Jones is P.T. Barnum and McNair prefers the comfort from behind the green curtain.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't think Mcnair controls this stuff the way you do, but I don't like Mcnair at all. I think he is one of the top 5 dumbest owners in the NFL, but for different reasons. I think Mcnair is lazy, and gets anxiety over the idea of having to work with another GM for one. Him and Smith look so cozy together all the time in their suite, and I think he has taking a huge personal liking to Smith to where he just doesn't want to let him go. Will he bypass Smith and take over for certain calls? He probably has. How many times? I'm not sure, but Mcnair to me is just an owner that cares about stacking dough and creating a nice festival atmosphere on game day where people can have fun. He has never been highly committed to dominance to me. As long as fans are selling out games, and partying in the parking lots for tailgating events, I think that suits him just fine. Owning a team is fun for him, but winning isn't everything to him like us fans want it to be.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
So that takes coaching out of there picture?
One coaching staff did a great job getting a team to the Super Bowl. The other coaching staff didn't do jack shtick to get that same team to the Super Bowl two years later...
Not holding water.
I'm not responding to this junk any further. 3 of us pretty much explained it as easy as it can be explained with fact based stats that you completely ignored so I'll just continue to call it a troll comment that you're using for the sake of arguing which is weird.