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O'Brien You need to deliver... yesterday.

thunderkyss said:
What's our roster situation? Gary Kubiak just won the SuperbOwl his first year as Denver's head coach.
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What a terrible example. You mean the team that was in the SB two years prior to him landing there? The same team that hadn't been lower than the 2nd round of the playoffs the previous 3 years and had won the entire AFC two years before that and the year before that were runner up to the Patriots to win the AFC? Elway had been stacking that team for years. Kubiak basically got a roster that was arguably the best roster of all time on paper. He goes in there and takes an offense that had been in the top 3 the season before, and it becomes a top 5 worst offense of the NFL, and Wade's D pulls a 2001 Ravens SB in the playoffs. If Kubiak gets any props its for staying the hell out of the way last season, and letting Elway's talent do the work without his meddling. Wade and Elway more importantly deserve all the glory for that SB. Elway was relentless in stacking that team with superstar talent on both sides of the ball, and with Kubiak they were still only a defensive team.

None of which has anything to do with OB and how his players played here though. OB pretty much met the expectations that were set for him last season. He didn't do better, he didn't do worse.
 
Texecutioner said:
What a terrible example. You mean the team that was in the SB two years prior to him landing there? The same team that hadn't been lower than the 2nd round of the playoffs the previous 3 years and had won the entire AFC two years before that and the year before that were runner up to the Patriots to win the AFC? Elway had been stacking that team for years. Kubiak basically got a roster that was arguably the best roster of all time on paper. He goes in there and takes an offense that had been in the top 3 the season before, and it becomes a top 5 worst offense of the NFL, and Wade's D pulls a 2001 Ravens SB in the playoffs. If Kubiak gets any props its for staying the hell out of the way last season, and letting Elway's talent do the work without his meddling. Wade and Elway more importantly deserve all the glory for that SB. Elway was relentless in stacking that team with superstar talent on both sides of the ball, and with Kubiak they were still only a defensive team.

None of which has anything to do with OB and how his players played here though. OB pretty much met the expectations that were set for him last season. He didn't do better, he didn't do worse.
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Tex, he was responding to my comment on my belief that Gary Kubiak wouldn't have been able to take the rosters OB had to work with 9-7 two years in a row....


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corytx8 said:
Tex, he was responding to my comment on my belief that Gary Kubiak wouldn't have been able to take the rosters OB had to work with 9-7 two years in a row....


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I know he was. By trying to act like Kubiak was way better was a bad example. Kubiak went to a team that had just barely lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs and had been in the SB prior to that. They had just been like one game off from being the #1 seed in the AFC the year before Kubiak got there. Kubiak got one of the best rosters of all time. OB inherited a 2-14 team.
 
76Texan said:
Haha, I used to be pumping.

But I decided to get off the train wreck.

Everybody can make their own choice.
I'm not stopping anybody.
I remember people getting on Kubiak (even before the 2-14 season) and Rick Smith's cases all the time, even in the off-season.
Fine with me. I have no problem with that.

Right now, I'm getting my entertainment the way I choose. I'm having fun.
Thank you very much. ;)
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What is your point of this thread? What are you hoping to accomplish? First of all, if you think the overall consensus is that this board has their lips firmly planted on OB's ass, you don't read much around here. Then again, when you're so busy breaking down film of 7 pre-season passes to determine a player's future, I can understand why you might not have the time.

For the most part, this board criticizes when it's warranted, and gives props when they are due. Sure, there's those who have their agendas, think they know better than everyone, and will beat the same drum no matter what. The Texans could win a Super Bowl and people will bitch that they could have played better, or they were lucky so and so team got upset, or something. But as I said, for the most part it's not like that.

Secondly, it makes not one flying fuck what anybody here says or does. So if you don't like what Smith or O'Brien or McNair is doing, feel free to say so, but quit calling out people because you think they're not. What the hell does that accomplish?

Be a damn fan, or not, the way you want to and let others be fans they way they want to.
 
This would be an appropriate thread for a coach like Jeff Fisher, not O'Brien. 2 years HC in the NFL, 2 winning seasons and it's already put up or shut up time? Fisher's had 21 seasons in the league and has six - SIX winning seasons. O'Brien has a third of that winning season total in 2 years.

Anyway, I don't think the fans give O'Brien a pass. He handled some things very badly last year and he was called out for it (by the fans, not the media so much). But for the most part, I think he's earned some good faith collateral by turning this 2-14 franchise crap team around in his first year w/o a QB worth a damn and a gimpy star RB
 
76Texan said:
I leave the content blank for now.

It's just unfathomable how the Texans fans have been giving O'Brien a pass.
(OK, I'm stirring up the pot again)

But really, why has this board been so quiet; the quietest I've noticed for a very long time.
Apathy? What?

I'm freaking tired of waiting and hoping.
The main core of players get paid millions of dollars; why should I give them time when they are veterans?

The players were the ones who wanted more pay for performance.
To ask us to be patient is ridiculous.
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I will wait to see how Brock performs before I pass judgment. On the other hand I'm not feeling to confident about him !
 
10-6
12-4
2-14
9-7
9-7

Was O'brien REALLY given a 2-14 team? One of these things is not like the others, but somehow there are several people who grab it like a lifeline. We were Derrick Newton away from a solid offensive line, had the best (oft injured) runningback in the league, Andre and Hopkins at receiver, Daniels and Graham at tightend and placeholders Keenum and Yates at quarterback to draft behind. Defense had Watt, Cushing, Mercilus, Reed, Antonio Smith, Manning, Crick, Braman, Jackson and Joseph. That's a lot of talent being ignored when throwing the '2-14' card around, hell it's damn near a perfect scenario for a new coach ... here's a winning team, and you get to draft your quarterback to sit for a year.
 
Scooter said:
10-6
12-4
2-14
9-7
9-7

Was O'brien REALLY given a 2-14 team? One of these things is not like the others, but somehow there are several people who grab it like a lifeline. We were Derrick Newton away from a solid offensive line, had the best (oft injured) runningback in the league, Andre and Hopkins at receiver, Daniels and Graham at tightend and placeholders Keenum and Yates at quarterback to draft behind. Defense had Watt, Cushing, Mercilus, Reed, Antonio Smith, Manning, Crick, Braman, Jackson and Joseph. That's a lot of talent being ignored when throwing the '2-14' card around, hell it's damn near a perfect scenario for a new coach ... here's a winning team, and you get to draft your quarterback to sit for a year.
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They weren't the worst 2-14 team... except maybe at QB, but they damn sure weren't a 12-4 team either. They were about an 8-8, 9-7 team
 
Scooter said:
Was O'brien REALLY given a 2-14 team?
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It took 6 games to bench Matt Schaub.

The fans cheered when he got hurt.

When they finally switched to Keenum, they wouldn't (not couldn't) move the ball in the 2nd half.

Whatever the reason for the dysfunction, that was a 2-14 team.

Scooter said:
...hell it's damn near a perfect scenario for a new coach ... here's a winning team, and you get to draft your quarterback to sit for a year.
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Surely if it were that simple O'b would have drafted a QB to sit for a year. Instead, bring in Fitzmagic to fix our offense.
 
EllisUnit said:
I will wait to see how Brock performs before I pass judgment. On the other hand I'm not feeling to confident about him !
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Haha, some people didn't even read my note:

"(OK, I'm stirring up the pot again)".

They take things too seriously.

But really, even in the days of the Oilers, when we know that Dan Pastorini was going to be "meh" most of the time, we would still cheer for him.

Or, like my football-watching buddy... when the Oilers were going good, he would make a joke.
Says like, "look; Moon is going to throw an INT right here".
(And it would happen; LOL)

Neither of us would curse any of the QB; not even David Carr when he was god-awful.

On the other hand, it's fine with me if other people react differently.
They can ***** and moan all they want; it's their choice.

So, I don't see anything wrong with not liking "Mediocrity".
NFL QBs and HCs; those are high-pressure jobs.
I don't ever cuss out on them, but I don't see any problem with demanding value for the dollar.
 
76Texan said:
Haha, some people didn't even read my note:

"(OK, I'm stirring up the pot again)".

They take things too seriously.

But really, even in the days of the Oilers, when we know that Dan Pastorini was going to be "meh" most of the time, we would still cheer for him.

Or, like my football-watching buddy... when the Oilers were going good, he would make a joke.
Says like, "look; Moon is going to throw an INT right here".
(And it would happen; LOL)

Neither of us would curse any of the QB; not even David Carr when he was god-awful.

On the other hand, it's fine with me if other people react differently.
They can ***** and moan all they want; it's their choice.

So, I don't see anything wrong with not liking "Mediocrity".
NFL QBs and HCs; those are high-pressure jobs.
I don't ever cuss out on them, but I don't see any problem with demanding value for the dollar.
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I saw your note, was just stating how i feel about him.
 
I like O'Brien. I think he's a good coach. I hope Osweiler will turn into a good QB, but I'm not sure how that's going to go... although I liked what I saw from him on the Broncos last year.

I liked Kubiak up to and past the end (even though I would have fired him before McNair did) and I never thought he was a bad coach or that he couldn't be successful, and I'll take his SB as proof that I was right on that.

I've been busy with other things so I haven't been dropping by much since the draft, but it really seems kind of pointless to come here and read posts of people whining and bitching and moaning when I'd prefer to do something enjoyable.
 
banned1976 said:
This would be an appropriate thread for a coach like Jeff Fisher, not O'Brien. 2 years HC in the NFL, 2 winning seasons and it's already put up or shut up time? Fisher's had 21 seasons in the league and has six - SIX winning seasons. O'Brien has a third of that winning season total in 2 years.

Anyway, I don't think the fans give O'Brien a pass. He handled some things very badly last year and he was called out for it (by the fans, not the media so much). But for the most part, I think he's earned some good faith collateral by turning this 2-14 franchise crap team around in his first year w/o a QB worth a damn and a gimpy star RB
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You're giving O'Brien a pass right there (IMO).

Look at the roster he inherited:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2014.htm

You know very well 2-14 was not a true reflection of the talent level on the team; to say otherwise is just "..."
And he had excellent draft positions to work with.
Whatever function(s) he has in the draft process; it is still his problem.

Foster averaged 4.8 ypc that year.
He had a tandem of receivers that can produce at the top level in the game.
He had TEs that had performed well under Kubiak, but became nearly non-existent now.
The O-line was mostly intact and were regarded as quite better than average, at least in the top ten overall.

He decided to bring in Fitz and hamstrung the guy; it's his problem.

The defense, with just Watt, is already potent; but he also had a pair of solid but unspectacular in Reed and Mercilus, and a tandem of DBs that can take a lot worries out of a HC/DC.

Everybody knows that the AFC south was totally bad.
To bring up a 9-7 record is simply trying to fool oneself.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I like O'Brien. I think he's a good coach. I hope Osweiler will turn into a good QB, but I'm not sure how that's going to go... although I liked what I saw from him on the Broncos last year.

I liked Kubiak up to and past the end (even though I would have fired him before McNair did) and I never thought he was a bad coach or that he couldn't be successful, and I'll take his SB as proof that I was right on that.

I've been busy with other things so I haven't been dropping by much since the draft, but it really seems kind of pointless to come here and read posts of people whining and bitching and moaning when I'd prefer to do something enjoyable.
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One could also say that joining a MB is also pointless. ;)
 
Last year we were 5-1 in the division. 4-6 outside the division.

I'll take 9-7 & a playoff spot, but... great coaching? I think not.

If we're going to use hard knocks as an excuse... maybe I can buy that. We got off to a slow start. But Buffalo whipped us late in the season.
 
JB said:
They weren't the worst 2-14 team... except maybe at QB, but they damn sure weren't a 12-4 team either. They were about an 8-8, 9-7 team
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And you add to that a new draft class at the best positions in the entire league, with an additional third.

The two extra 6th rounders can be used to improve special team play.

The AFC South went further south in 2014.

9-7 was really "under-performing" with the talent level O'Brien had 2014.

I seem to remember a lot of folks predicting 11, 12, 13 wins and a AFC Championship game.
 
thunderkyss said:
Last year we were 5-1 in the division. 4-6 outside the division.

I'll take 9-7 & a playoff spot, but... great coaching? I think not.

If we're going to use hard knocks as an excuse... maybe I can buy that. We got off to a slow start. But Buffalo whipped us late in the season.
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IMO, it was two consecutive years of under-performance.
And that has to be coaching.
Mediocre at best.

I shudder to think of the Texans without JJ Watt.
 
76Texan said:
So, I don't see anything wrong with not liking "Mediocrity".
NFL QBs and HCs; those are high-pressure jobs.
I don't ever cuss out on them, but I don't see any problem with demanding value for the dollar.
Click to expand...

Posting on a MB isn't going to get you any value on the dollar. But if it makes you feel better go for it.
 
IMO, Bill Obrien walked into a dumpster fire and has done well keeping us relevant during a rebuilding.

Not only were they 2-14 in 2013, they were 2-4 to close out 2012.

QB position was as bad as it gets, Schaub lost all confidence and obviously needed to go, can't blame Schaub, any QB in league would have imploded with the treatment he received. He brought in Fitz, but he wasn't good enough for Texans fans either.

Our offensive line was filled with dinosaurs, Wade Smith out of league, Chris Myers out of league, Derek Newton was offered big contract then reverted back to Newton of old.

Arian Foster became a walking injury and Andre Johnson was on his last legs.

Kubiac utilizes unique tight ends that didn't fit in power run game.

On defensive line, who was our NT?, Antonio Smith was a dinosaur.

Mercilus and Reed were serviceable but not world beaters. Cushing suffered years of back to back knee injuries.

Corners have been a positive, but safety was a mess. We lost Quinn in free agency and Manning got old quick.

What was the great team O'brien walked into again?
 
gs27 said:
IMO, Bill Obrien walked into a dumpster fire and has done well keeping us relevant during a rebuilding.

Not only were they 2-14 in 2013, they were 2-4 to close out 2012.

QB position was as bad as it gets, Schaub lost all confidence and obviously needed to go, can't blame Schaub, any QB in league would have imploded with the treatment he received. He brought in Fitz, but he wasn't good enough for Texans fans either.

Our offensive line was filled with dinosaurs, Wade Smith out of league, Chris Myers out of league, Derek Newton was offered big contract then reverted back to Newton of old.

Arian Foster became a walking injury and Andre Johnson was on his last legs.

Kubiac utilizes unique tight ends that didn't fit in power run game.

On defensive line, who was our NT?, Antonio Smith was a dinosaur.

Mercilus and Reed were serviceable but not world beaters. Cushing suffered years of back to back knee injuries.

Corners have been a positive, but safety was a mess. We lost Quinn in free agency and Manning got old quick.

What was the great team O'brien walked into again?
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https://www.profootballfocus.com/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings/4/

............

5. Houston Texans (16th)

Pass Blocking Ranking: 12th, Run Blocking Ranking: 3rd, Penalties Ranking: 10th

Stud: Nobody mentions his name much, but Brandon Brooks (+18.7) has quietly put together two very good seasons with his run blocking being of the standout variety.

Dud: Rookie Xavier Su’a-Filo (-8.5) was supposed to be an instant contributor. His 130 snaps highlight how that has proven to not be the case.

Breakdown: They looked a line in need of a rebuild with a new head coach in town, but those same elements responded to Bill O’Brien and played extremely well. A special mention to Derek Newton whose turn around has been one of the most remarkable of anyone in 2014.

..........................

Not everything they did at PFF is anywhere near perfect, but overall, I would say their work over the years are at least "OK".

Foster averaged 4.8 ypc for god-sake.

The Texans never ran a pure power game like the Cowboys.
If they did, O'Brien didn't have to keep Graham the following year.

The Texans linemen like Ben Jones and Brandon Brooks get their pay days signing with other teams later.
 
GoCoogs said:
That's cool. As far as liking mediocrity, I guess I am used to it after years and years of Kubiak.
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Hey, he did have a 12-4 team that beat division winners Broncos and Ravens.
The Colts were 11-5.

That's not mediocrity. ;)

I would have fired Kubiak just like TPN though; earlier than sooner during the 2-14 season.
 
76Texan said:
Hey, he did have a 12-4 team that beat division winners Broncos and Ravens.
The Colts were 11-5.

That's not mediocrity. ;)

I would have fired Kubiak just like TPN though; earlier than sooner during the 2-14 season.
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It's mediocrity when it takes you almost 10 years to get there.
 
GoCoogs said:
It's mediocrity when it takes you almost 10 years to get there.
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Close, but the 10-6 team wasn't mediocre either.
They beat some good teams, and almost upend powerhouse New Orleans.

It could be argued that they could have advanced further in the playoffs if not for the 3 INTs by Yates (ie.; had Schaub remained healthy.)
 
The point I am trying to make is that it took Kubiak 6 mediocre seasons to get that 10-6 playoff team. I don't want to wait for 6 seasons for another team as good as that with O'Brien, but other than 2 really good seasons, Kubiak was mediocre here during his stint as HC.
 
GoCoogs said:
The point I am trying to make is that it took Kubiak 6 mediocre seasons to get that 10-6 playoff team. I don't want to wait for 6 seasons for another team as good as that with O'Brien, but other than 2 really good seasons, Kubiak was mediocre here during his stint as HC.
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Kubiak had 1 player - Andre Johnson. Everyone else (literally 52 + reserves) was let go as soon as possible because we were almost impossibly devoid of talent. Want to see a 2-14 team? Compare what Kubiak walked into in 2006 to what O'Brien was giftwrapped in 2014. Go do that and get back to me, please compare the players and how sad you are that we were only mediocre. Then tell me how sad it is that we're still mediocre with what for 2 years most of the NFL said was a Superbowl worthy team as they listed our roster, a roster O'Brien gutted the moment he stepped in and is sinking with his replacements.
 
Scooter said:
Kubiak had 1 player - Andre Johnson. Everyone else (literally 52 + reserves) was let go as soon as possible because we were almost impossibly devoid of talent. Want to see a 2-14 team? Compare what Kubiak walked into in 2006 to what O'Brien was giftwrapped in 2014. Go do that and get back to me, please compare the players and how sad you are that we were only mediocre. Then tell me how sad it is that we're still mediocre with what for 2 years most of the NFL said was a Superbowl worthy team as they listed our roster, a roster O'Brien gutted the moment he stepped in and is sinking with his replacements.
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Yes the cupboard was bare in 2006. But it still took 6 years to make the playoffs. There was plenty of time for him to put the players in place to do it. So sorry, he doesn't get a pass from me.
 
GoCoogs said:
Yes the cupboard was bare in 2006. But it still took 6 years to make the playoffs. There was plenty of time for him to put the players in place to do it. So sorry, he doesn't get a pass from me.
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4 seasons to hit O'Brien's 9-7, doing so against Peyton Manning and a MUCH stronger division that included both the Titans and Jags going to the playoffs in his early years. And of course you're not silly enough to think that building a team of 52 players happens overnight ... are you? 52 players, plus practice squad, at 7 draft picks per year, crippling cap situation thanks to Casserly for the first 3 years making free agents near impossble ... anyone have a calculator?
 
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GoCoogs said:
Yes the cupboard was bare in 2006. But it still took 6 years to make the playoffs. There was plenty of time for him to put the players in place to do it. So sorry, he doesn't get a pass from me.
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I did start to get a bit antsy in 08, but then the Texans rebounded in 09.
I was ready to move on in 2010 with the two home losses to the Cowboys and Giants, especially the lowly Cowboys.
And we lost against some bad teams, too.

I wouldn't have mind if Kubiak had gotten canned that season;
on the other hand, like you, I didn't really feel the need to decry mediocrity.
 
Scooter said:
4 seasons to hit O'Brien's 9-7, doing so against Peyton Manning and a MUCH stronger division that included both the Titans and Jags going to the playoffs in his early years.
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I am not bringing up O'Brien. I am not trying to defend O'Brien. He should have a short leash too in my opinion. I am just trying to take a wait and see approach this season, if the Texans are a dumpster fire then IMO it's on OB and RS and they should both be held accountable.
 
GoCoogs said:
I am not bringing up O'Brien. I am not trying to defend O'Brien. He should have a short leash too in my opinion. I am just trying to take a wait and see approach this season, if the Texans are a dumpster fire then IMO it's on OB and RS and they should both be held accountable.
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I would have been on board, but like I said, I'm tired of mediocrity.

Rick Smith has been mediocre forever.
And O'Brien has also done many things that point toward more mediocrity.
I don't hate either one of them; I just like to find better candidates.
 
Scooter said:
Kubiak had 1 player - Andre Johnson. Everyone else (literally 52 + reserves) was let go as soon as possible because we were almost impossibly devoid of talent. Want to see a 2-14 team? Compare what Kubiak walked into in 2006 to what O'Brien was giftwrapped in 2014. Go do that and get back to me, please compare the players and how sad you are that we were only mediocre. Then tell me how sad it is that we're still mediocre with what for 2 years most of the NFL said was a Superbowl worthy team as they listed our roster, a roster O'Brien gutted the moment he stepped in and is sinking with his replacements.
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Mario Williams
Jason Babin
Demeco Ryans
Owen Daniels
Dunta Robinson
Eric Winston
Vonta Leach
Eric Moulds
Ron Dayne
Kailee Wong
Chester Pitts
Jerome Mathis
Philip Buchanon
Andre Johnson

Sure I missed a few, but not bad roster. Better than dinosaurs O'brien inherited. Who are the many great players O'brien inherited and what have they done for us or new team?
 
gs27 said:
Mario Williams
Jason Babin
Demeco Ryans
Owen Daniels
Dunta Robinson
Eric Winston
Vonta Leach
Eric Moulds
Ron Dayne
Kailee Wong
Chester Pitts
Jerome Mathis
Philip Buchanon
Andre Johnson

Sure I missed a few, but not bad roster. Better than dinosaurs O'brien inherited. Who are the many great players O'brien inherited and what have they done for us or new team?
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All players Kubiak brought in or drafted (or were injured/dinosaurs on their way out). Go back to the 2005 roster to see what he inherited.

Wait, you're comparing Ron Dayne to Arian Foster, Kailee Wong to Cushing ... and you have Philip Buchanon and Eric Moulds on a list of players you think are good? Just, no. Stop while you're behind.
 
76Texan said:
One could also say that joining a MB is also pointless. ;)
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A lot of people probably do, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

There is a POINT to this MB and there always has been: the Texans and Football. For me, for a long time, this MB was my primary source of information about the team as well as a place to discuss things both on and off topic. I haven't lived in Houston since before the Oilers left town, so I'm not surrounded by news and radio information about my team like the people who do live there. This MB is like a fix for a junkie to me. But recently, I haven't been able to take the time to come read it, in part because I don't have enough time in the day and in part because the negative parts of the board get monotonous.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
A lot of people probably do, but that has nothing to do with what I said.

There is a POINT to this MB and there always has been: the Texans and Football. For me, for a long time, this MB was my primary source of information about the team as well as a place to discuss things both on and off topic. I haven't lived in Houston since before the Oilers left town, so I'm not surrounded by news and radio information about my team like the people who do live there. This MB is like a fix for a junkie to me. But recently, I haven't been able to take the time to come read it, in part because I don't have enough time in the day and in part because the negative parts of the board get monotonous.
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Are you sure you were really here before?
The negative part has always been there predominantly.
it only gets monotonous because you don't skip through them. ;)

You can always disregard those posts from posters you think are too negative needlessly (including mine if you choose to, haha. )
 
76Texan said:
Are you sure you were really here before?
The negative part has always been there predominantly.
it only gets monotonous because you don't skip through them. ;)

You can always disregard those posts from posters you think are too negative needlessly (including mine if you choose to, haha. )
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I think he is referring to those crapping on Brock after 7 pass attempts in he first preseason game.....




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76Texan said:
Are you sure you were really here before?
The negative part has always been there predominantly.
it only gets monotonous because you don't skip through them. ;)

You can always disregard those posts from posters you think are too negative needlessly (including mine if you choose to, haha. )
Click to expand...

I guess I was in a positive mood because of the Babe of the Day threads...
 
corytx8 said:
I think he is referring to those crapping on Brock after 7 pass attempts in he first preseason game.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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And thus my response that you quoted.

Also, be careful; you might be putting words in people's mouth, haha.

And that could very well be viewed as negativity. ; )
 
You got me spinning
'Round and 'round
'Round and 'round and 'round it goes
Where it stops nobody knows



Steve Miller Band
 
As my personal habits have changed and (arguably) at 49 I have grown-up some and I take 30 minutes to hour at most in any day to be on this message board, having to 'work" like clicking through non-funny posts, repetitive conversations, t and a pictures, actual news buried in general threads isn't interesting or effective in terms of my time usage. I have changed and the message board may or may not have changed. It seems more negative to me, but what I want from the experience is surely different.
 
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