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O'Brien vs. Kubiak

I don't even know how this is an argument:
One developed one of the most cohesive offensive lines in the league at the time. Took an UDFA and made him All-Pro under his scheme. 2008-10 had a top 5 offense in each of those years. 2011 at 13 but we were picking guys up off the street that year. Back up to top 10 in 2012.

By the way: Kubiak's worst year in the Matt Schaub era - 2013 #11 in the league, the offense was STILL better than anything BOB has put on the field thus far. We were 13th in the league in offense in 2019 and have consistently been in the bottom half of the league since BOB the offensive guru joined the team. I have always thought the 2013 season was a fluke and was just a mix of bad luck and poor team mentality. I would have liked to see us keep Kubes around for another year or at least kept Wade on board. We were one year removed from having one of the best teams in the league.

Watching the 9ers gash KC for runs of 10+ yards repeatedly yesterday reminded me how much we lack any sort of offensive run scheme or purpose. It's frustrating. But I guess in the end they had the same outcome that we did this post-season: watching KC roar back from a double-digit deficit and not being able to stop it.
 
disaacks3 said:
Please don't compare Carr to Watson. He's not even in the same area code statistically.
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Obviously. The comparison was that kubiak had an average offense with Carr and O'Brien has an average offense with Watson.

Although some around here might argue that Carr is smarter than Watson.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep those feet allowed 3 sacks last yr and atleast 1 of them was because DW4 held onto the ball to long.
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Sacks allowed alone is not the only job of an OT.
The game include all of the snaps; including the penalties.
14 false starts, 3 Offensive holdings are not good numbers.

Against the Bills, the first sack was due to OB bad play calling, but Tunsil was beaten right off the bat just the same.
On the next play, he got beaten again, but the RB came and got him off the hook.
I haven't gotten to the rest of the game, but it was shaky at the start.
If I recall correctly, Tunsil was bad toward the end, too.
But, like I've said, I don't want to make the call until I have revisited all the games.
 
76Texan said:
Sacks allowed alone is not the only job of an OT.
The game include all of the snaps; including the penalties.
14 false starts, 3 Offensive holdings are not good numbers.

Against the Bills, the first sack was due to OB bad play calling, but Tunsil was beaten right off the bat just the same.
On the next play, he got beaten again, but the RB came and got him off the hook.
I haven't gotten to the rest of the game, but it was shaky at the start.
If I recall correctly, Tunsil was bad toward the end, too.
But, like I've said, I don't want to make the call until I have revisited all the games.
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Pressures allowed is a better measure.

I'm sure Tunsil fared pretty well in that category too.

I have to LOL at you after watching Davenport crap the bed for the last 2 yrs and they go out and trade for one of the most talented LT's in the league at the cost of an extra 1st and you're trying to make a case that Tunsil isn't very good. LMAO
 
steelbtexan said:
Pressures allowed is a better measure.

I'm sure Tunsil fared pretty well in that category too.

I have to LOL at you after watching Davenport crap the bed for the last 2 yrs and they go out and trade for one of the most talented LT's in the league at the cost of an extra 1st and you're trying to make a case that Tunsil isn't very good. LMAO
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It was 2 firsts and a second
 
TheKDog said:
It was 2 firsts and a second
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I consider Tunsil to be one 1st.

Stills + a high 4th = Low 2nd.

So follow along closely they've only spent one 1st unless you dont think Tunsil was worth a 1st.

This has been explained to you many times, but I guess you cant see this due to your over the top hate of ALL things BOB.
 
JB said:
But it's the main one
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Every penalty is a potential drive killer.
There were also 3 elligible man downfield call, but I need to see what the situations were.
And so as not to quote steelb's post anew, since I still have to rewatch the games a few times over - I know I have had some looks at him throughout the many games I had rewatched -, at the moment, I think talent-wise, he looks to be somewhere between DB and Winston.
He looks like an average LT (which isn't half bad), if he just tones down on the penalty.
 
steelbtexan said:
I consider Tunsil to be one 1st.

Stills + a high 4th = Low 2nd.

So follow along closely they've only spent one 1st unless you dont think Tunsil was worth a 1st.

This has been explained to you many times, but I guess you cant see this due to your over the top hate of ALL things BOB.
Click to expand...
Wasn't Davenport included in the trade?
 
steelbtexan said:
I consider Tunsil to be one 1st.

Stills + a high 4th = Low 2nd.

So follow along closely they've only spent one 1st unless you dont think Tunsil was worth a 1st.

This has been explained to you many times, but I guess you cant see this due to your over the top hate of ALL things BOB.
Click to expand...
Tunsil could be considered as a first rounder, but at a higher slot than DB at 27th.
He was drafted at 13th overall.
He needs to be a franchise LT; ie. top 10 at least.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Pressures allowed is a better measure.

I'm sure Tunsil fared pretty well in that category too.

I have to LOL at you after watching Davenport crap the bed for the last 2 yrs and they go out and trade for one of the most talented LT's in the league at the cost of an extra 1st and you're trying to make a case that Tunsil isn't very good. LMAO
Click to expand...

I thought we weren’t using LOL and other things of that type of nature on this forum.
 
steelbtexan said:
Pressures allowed is a better measure.

I'm sure Tunsil fared pretty well in that category too.

I have to LOL at you after watching Davenport crap the bed for the last 2 yrs and they go out and trade for one of the most talented LT's in the league at the cost of an extra 1st and you're trying to make a case that Tunsil isn't very good. LMAO
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As a comparison, in 2011, Duane Brown allowed zero sack and 22 overall pressures per PFF.
I haven't been able to find the penalty number.
 
76Texan said:
Tunsil could be considered as a first rounder, but at a higher slot than DB at 27th.
He needs to be a franchise LT; ie. top 10 at least.
Click to expand...

I dont get you equating Tunsil to the 27th pick. Talent levels at different positions in each draft vary. For instance, Tunsil would've been the top rated LT by a large margin in last yrs draft. Certainly worth a top 10 pick.


76Texan said:
Wasn't Davenport included in the trade?
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Yes he was. I considered that part of the trade to be like taking out the trash.
 
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76Texan said:
As a comparison, in 2011, Duane Brown allowed zero sack and 22 overall pressures per PFF.
I haven't been able to find the penalty number.
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Tunsil is not Duane Brown like Devlin is not Alex Gibbs

There is no comparison nor should there be
 
Texansballer74 said:
It’s all degrading because you’re laughing at another poster comment / opinion.

You’re the A hole . Started that crap but it’s ok for you to do it. Freaking hypocrites I tell ya. SMH
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Well I see you answered my question quite succinctly.

OK, let me put it this way, John's opinion is valid but after watching Davenport for 2 yrs I cant understand for the life of me how he came to the opinion that Tunsil wasn't worth a 1st rd draft pick.


Happy now?
 
steelbtexan said:
I consider Tunsil to be one 1st.

Stills + a high 4th = Low 2nd.

So follow along closely they've only spent one 1st unless you dont think Tunsil was worth a 1st.

This has been explained to you many times, but I guess you cant see this due to your over the top hate of ALL things BOB.
Click to expand...

Doesn't make sense. Even if Tunsil "is a first" you still used two. So then Watt and Hopkins cost zero firsts?

Stills isn't worth a second, not even close, not even if you throw in a 4th. Maybe he was worth just a 4th.
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont get you equating Tunsil to the 27th pick. Talent levels at different positions in each draft vary. For instance, Tunsil would've been the top rated LT by a large margin in last yrs draft. Certainly worth a top 10 pick.




Yes he was. I considered that part of the trade to be like taking out the trash.
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I does not matter where he was rated among the OT in the draft.
The main thing is what kind of value you get from it.
And whether it's Devlin or anybody else, there's no excuse.
Because, you said so yourself.
You can't be wishy-washy.
Everything falls on the HC.
Including the failure that was Davenport (with the Texans).
 
76Texan said:
Tunsil could be considered as a first rounder, but at a higher slot than DB at 27th.
He was drafted at 13th overall.
He needs to be a franchise LT; ie. top 10 at least.
Click to expand...

He's borderline top 10 already, but that's questionable for what OBrien gave up. He basically has to be the best LT in the league for a long time to justify it
 
TheKDog said:
Doesn't make sense. Even if Tunsil "is a first" you still used two. So then Watt and Hopkins cost zero firsts?

Stills isn't worth a second, not even close, not even if you throw in a 4th. Maybe he was worth just a 4th.
Click to expand...

Yes it does and it has been broken down several times but since you went out and got that video after saying it had been posted several times I’ll break it down again.

First as I just said Tunsil was projected top three but let’s just take his actual drafted position at 13. Texans were drafting at 21 that year so what would it have cost to move from 21 to 13? I’d saying Miami wouldn’t have take less than a 1st next year, or a bundle of later picks equal to a 1st, so there is one first right there. Then you move up and you still have to use your actual 1st to draft him. Just like when we drafted Watson one 1st put in play and the other gets you the guy.

As far as Stills goes even with only 40 recs he still got 561 yards, 4 touchdowns and 14 yards average. Considering he only had a week before his first game and he was our WR number 3, till Fuller went down as is his MO, that’s pretty good since that 2nd is actually more a 3rd in real value. You only think he was worth it because OB was the one that made the deal.
 
maverick512000 said:
Yes it does and it has been broken down several times but since you went out and got that video after saying it had been posted several times I’ll break it down again.

First as I just said Tunsil was projected top three but let’s just take his actual drafted position at 13. Texans were drafting at 21 that year so what would it have cost to move from 21 to 13? I’d saying Miami wouldn’t have take less than a 1st next year, or a bundle of later picks equal to a 1st, so there is one first right there. Then you move up and you still have to use your actual 1st to draft him. Just like when we drafted Watson one 1st put in play and the other gets you the guy.

As far as Stills goes even with only 40 recs he still got 561 yards, 4 touchdowns and 14 yards average. Considering he only had a week before his first game and he was our WR number 3, till Fuller went down as is his MO, that’s pretty good since that 2nd is actually more a 3rd in real value. You only think he was worth it because OB was the one that made the deal.
Click to expand...

That still cost two firsts.
 
76Texan said:
I does not matter where he was rated among the OT in the draft.
The main thing is what kind of value you get from it.
And whether it's Devlin or anybody else, there's no excuse.
Because, you said so yourself.
You can't be wishy-washy.
Everything falls on the HC.
Including the failure that was Davenport (with the Texans).
Click to expand...

Yeah it does matter, Brown would never drop to 26 these days unless he really did something stupid. You may not have noticed but over the last 10 years LTs worth getting aren’t really falling to the 20s or even out of top 15. It’s why everyone was so shocked about Dillard fell like he did.

I agree Devlin is on OB but also at some point it is on the player. When a player goes to a new system and sucks just as bad as they did in the old one then at that point you have to look at them and just say that guy sucks.

Edit: To further clarify I consider Devlin still being here as reason enough to question OBs judgement at the least. Yes some players suck no matter where they are but a coach should be able to see that and move on before it really hurts the team. Literally in Davenport’s case.
 
JB said:
Tunsil is not Duane Brown like Devlin is not Alex Gibbs

There is no comparison nor should there be
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As stated in the above post, it doesn't matter the name of the player nor the Oline coach, everything is on the HC.

Kubiak spent the 27th pick on a LT, and in year 3 of his career, the guy was rated 11th by PFF. (They called that "above-average".
In year 4, he was up to 6th.

Tunsil has yet (if ever) to reach that level of play.
 
76Texan said:
As stated in the above post, it doesn't matter the name of the player nor the Oline coach, everything is on the HC.

Kubiak spent the 27th pick on a LT, and in year 3 of his career, the guy was rated 11th by PFF. (They called that "above-average".
In year 4, he was up to 6th.

Tunsil has yet (if ever) to reach that level of play.
Click to expand...

Under O'Brien, guys come here and play worse (Jeff Allen)

Then they leave and play better (Brooks and Jones)
 
maverick512000 said:
Yeah it does matter, Brown would never drop to 26 these days unless he really did something stupid. You may not have noticed but over the last 10 years LTs worth getting aren’t really falling to the 20s or even out of top 15. It’s why everyone was so shocked about Dillard fell like he did.

I agree Devlin is on OB but also at some point it is on the player. When a player goes to a new system and sucks just as bad as they did in the old one then at that point you have to look at them and just say that guy sucks.
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NO more excuse, please.
 
76Texan said:
I does not matter where he was rated among the OT in the draft.
The main thing is what kind of value you get from it.
And whether it's Devlin or anybody else, there's no excuse.
Because, you said so yourself.
You can't be wishy-washy.
Everything falls on the HC.
Including the failure that was Davenport (with the Texans).
Click to expand...

His talent matters. He's very talented. Well worth the 1st.

Whoever thought it was a great idea to draft Davenport was at fault. I think Devlin recommended Davenport and for that alone Devlin should be fired.
 
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maverick512000 said:
Yeah it does matter, Brown would never drop to 26 these days unless he really did something stupid. You may not have noticed but over the last 10 years LTs worth getting aren’t really falling to the 20s or even out of top 15. It’s why everyone was so shocked about Dillard fell like he did.

I agree Devlin is on OB but also at some point it is on the player. When a player goes to a new system and sucks just as bad as they did in the old one then at that point you have to look at them and just say that guy sucks.

Edit: To further clarify I consider Devlin still being here as reason enough to question OBs judgement at the least. Yes some players suck no matter where they are but a coach should be able to see that and move on before it really hurts the team. Literally in Davenport’s case.
Click to expand...

Spot On, regardless of who coaches Davenport he's still going to suck. Same with Os etc....

TThey just cant except this as a fact.
 
Why did Bill O'Brien make Brock Osweiler his QB?
SI STAFF3:46
The Houston Texans gave quarterback Brock Osweiler a long-term contract this offseason. The MMQB senior reporter Albert Breer sits down with head coach Bill O'Brien to find out why.


www.si.com

Why did Bill O'Brien make Brock Osweiler his QB?

The Houston Texans gave quarterback Brock Osweiler a long-term contract this offseason. The MMQB senior reporter Albert Breer sits down with head coach Bill O'Brien to find out why.
www.si.com www.si.com



Interesting, and hilarious, video of OBrien breaking down osweiler tape and thinking he's awesome.
 
steelbtexan said:
His talent matters. He's very talented. Well worth the 1st.

No excuses.

Whoever thought it was a great idea to draft Davenport was at fault. I think Devlin recommended Davenport and for that alone Devlin should be fired.
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No excuse does not exclude O'Brien.
 
steelbtexan said:
Spot On, regardless of who coaches Davenport he's still going to suck. Same with Os etc....

TThey just cant except this as a fact.
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I never said those guys were good. Those were guys O'Brien brought in.

And regardless of the players O'Brien is still gonna suck...
 
TheKDog said:
Why did Bill O'Brien make Brock Osweiler his QB?
SI STAFF3:46
The Houston Texans gave quarterback Brock Osweiler a long-term contract this offseason. The MMQB senior reporter Albert Breer sits down with head coach Bill O'Brien to find out why.


www.si.com

Why did Bill O'Brien make Brock Osweiler his QB?

The Houston Texans gave quarterback Brock Osweiler a long-term contract this offseason. The MMQB senior reporter Albert Breer sits down with head coach Bill O'Brien to find out why.
www.si.com www.si.com



Interesting, and hilarious, video of OBrien breaking down osweiler tape and thinking he'd awesome.
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I rememember that one well.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm sure just like Kubiak worked with RS on Schaub's deal?

Fact from a source who knows. Kubiak didn't want the Schaub deal

BOB didn't want the Os deal

Carry on
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It's not simplistic all one or the other. At the time Kubiak had a policy of not extending players until after the season....then it was done with Rick and McNair announcing it.


O'Brien was praising osweiler until he realized he made a mistake and tried to pass the buck
 
TheKDog said:
It's not simplistic all one or the other. At the time Kubiak had a policy of not extending players until after the season....then it was done with Rick and McNair announcing it.


O'Brien was praising osweiler until he realized he made a mistake and tried to pass the buck
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I'm trying to tell you neither Kubiak/BOB had anything to do with contracts when RS was here.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Desperate times call for desperate measures. We needed a LT in a major way. When it’s time they will have to fork over the highest paid type money to Tunsil, or he will walk. Then it will turn into a tragic event.
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Yep, but now we're desperate for secondary help and don't have a first rounders for two years
 
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