Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

NRG Stadium's Hazardous Turf

Double Barrel said:
So two football events and two Disney ice events.

I'd think that a perma-field could withstand some additional football games on it. And the ice events, either move those to Toyota Center or book them after January.

The point is to remove the pallet seams altogether. With those gone, I do not see where anyone could complain about the field if it's real grass. And modern tech can definitely grow grass indoors, especially with mobile lights and water systems.

When paying pro athletes the kind of money they are making now, I'd think ensuring the field is the best it can be is more important than making some extra money from a Disney ice event.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, but obviously the HLSR and McNair disagree with us.
 
Several thousand players have played on it in the 125 games the Texans have played there and the turf is getting the blame for what, 4 or 5 players? That doesn't make much sense. Injuries happen on any and every field there's ever been. Are they ripping out the grass at FedEx for what it did to RG3? Actually they probably gave the grass a new contract now that they've got a real QB.
 
There is no doubt that most NFL players prefer a well-constructed, well-maintained grass field over one covered with synthetic turf. What I find somewhat curious is that the often-quoted 2010 NFLPA Survey is the only one that has been published and it was not all that well constructed to come away with usable valid information. For one thing, that survey rated the best and worst grass fields, and the best and worst artificial turf fields........there was no attempt to rate the best and worst FIELDS (combining both categories in one list). It is interesting to note that when players were asked "How do you rate your own home field?", Texans players giving their own Reliant an "excellent" (as opposed to "good," "fair" or "poor") grade (15.2%) put Reliant at 23rd in this category.

The truth of the matter is that the only way a valid player evaluation of NFL fields will ever occur is if an anonymous survey is taken from every player after each game (field conditions can change from week to week) with complete comparisons between and including all types of fields.
 
Some turf dudes on twitter were barking about how the NFL should have to measure the consistency of the field to make sure it passes.

Nobody seems to have a real clear answer for the tray system. To me free market has decided that it is not a good option. If it were, you would see more "open roof" dome stadiums with grass inside.

Arizona's full sized moving tray is not a reasonable consideration either, for obvious reasons that I hope you guys already hashed out, earlier in this thread.

If the tray system were both cost effective and achieving a high level of quality, you would see it reoccurring at sports facilities all over the world. Just like Astroturf did and later Fieldturf etc...

Oh wait, you mean to tell me that free market only drives the cheapest option with the most tolerable level of quality for the lowest price?

It would appear that the Houston Texans Organization has placed some kind of value on maintaining a grass playing surface inside of the dome. It would also appear that the tray system has been the only option that is cost effective that still allows the Houston Texans to maintain a natural grass playing surface inside of a comfortable, well designed stadium where the fan experience is visually very good and typically, the football has been very entertaining.

When I have paid to go watch my favorite team play my favorite sport, I have ALWAYS been pleased to see the grass as I come up the tunnel to my seats. ALWAYS.
 
If anyone watched the Falcons vs. Bucs game last night, the commentators were talking about the difference in artificial turf and natural grass with regards to how players feel the next day after games.

They said turf leaves you battered and bruised, while grass often leaves players feeling good the next day.

I think it is safe to understand why players prefer grass.

As far as Speedy's post, I think he needs to read this entire thread, as much has already been covered.

The grounds team probably puts the field together better sometimes more than others. That's why we often have heard nothing about seams, but when they do not do a perfect job, or start slacking or cutting corners, we start to hear about it.

The system is not going anywhere anytime soon. So they just need to do a better and more consistent job of putting it together for games. It's as simple as that.
 
Double Barrel said:
If anyone watched the Falcons vs. Bucs game last night, the commentators were talking about the difference in artificial turf and natural grass with regards to how players feel the next day after games.

They said turf leaves you battered and bruised, while grass often leaves players feeling good the next day.

I think it is safe to understand why players prefer grass.

As far as Speedy's post, I think he needs to read this entire thread, as much has already been covered.

The grounds team probably puts the field together better sometimes more than others. That's why we often have heard nothing about seams, but when they do not do a perfect job, or start slacking or cutting corners, we start to hear about it.

The system is not going anywhere anytime soon. So they just need to do a better and more consistent job of putting it together for games. It's as simple as that.
Click to expand...

I am sure there is some variation between the quality of the maintenance of the tray system from game to game. But the problem is that you can put together the superficial portions of the seams so they look good and apparently look as though they "fit well," but as soon as cleats travel over these areas, the sod seams are easily disrupted/depressed/separated/overlapped because they cannot be firmly integrated into and supported by their adjacent tray sod.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I am sure there is some variation between the quality of the maintenance of the tray system from game to game. But the problem is that you can put together the superficial portions of the seams so they look good and apparently look as though they "fit well," but as soon as cleats travel over these areas, the sod seams are easily disrupted/depressed/separated/overlapped because they cannot be firmly integrated into and supported by their adjacent tray sod.
Click to expand...

...and so it isn't the best grass field out there but it is still better than artificial. Like DB said, it ain't going anywhere.
 
infantrycak said:
...and so it isn't the best grass field out there but it is still better than artificial. Like DB said, it ain't going anywhere.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree on this point with either of you. But I believe there still needs to be a head-to-head survey as outlined per my previous post, in order to have a truly valid idea of specific grass vs artificial turf NFL fields.....with ratings of the 2 categories being joined on a SINGLE list
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I don't disagree on this point with either of you. But I believe there still needs to be a head-to-head survey as outlined per my previous post, in order to have a truly valid idea of specific grass vs artificial turf NFL fields.....with ratings of the 2 categories being joined on a SINGLE list
Click to expand...

I hear you. You can do a makeshift job. One of these had opinions for every field rating excellent, good, poor, etc. Add the excellent and good for each field and see how they rank.

That's not a homework assignment. Just a thought.
 
infantrycak said:
I hear you. You can do a makeshift job. One of these had opinions for every field rating excellent, good, poor, etc. Add the excellent and good for each field and see how they rank.

That's not a homework assignment. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

I'd invite one of our statisticians in the group to try to sort it out more than I did in this post of mine (looking at "excellent ranking of 23rd only) [post # 153 http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2386387&postcount=153]. Unfortunately this reflects a survey that is not performed on separate games but as a once only overall impression which makes it a very poor construction to extract valid data.
 
It would also be interesting to see how injury statistics at Reliant compare to other NFL (and maybe major college, too) fields. Do they fall within the acceptable margin of error? Is all this fuss only because a high profile payer like Welker hurt his knee one time, or because there is real statistical evidence that the field is more hazardous. I don't know if 12 years of NFL games is enough for a sample size, but it seems that it should be to have a reasonable margin of error.
 
paycheck71 said:
It would also be interesting to see how injury statistics at Reliant compare to other NFL (and maybe major college, too) fields. Do they fall within the acceptable margin of error? Is all this fuss only because a high profile payer like Welker hurt his knee one time, or because there is real statistical evidence that the field is more hazardous. I don't know if 12 years of NFL games is enough for a sample size, but it seems that it should be to have a reasonable margin of error.
Click to expand...

12 years seems like a plenty big sample size and to be redundant Welker didn't say his knee was due to Reliant. Belichick was covering for why he had his starters in during a meaningless game and a star got injured.
 
If you try to find if Welker ever personally blamed the Reliant turf, you find hundreds of sources that only cite Belichick for the blame. But buried in an ESPN interview of Welker [follow the link below to ESPN] by Mike Reiss, who has covered the Patriots since 1997 and joined ESPN in 2009, you can "hear" Welker's own words concerning the incident.:

Welker said he has reviewed the play in which he was injured many times in his mind. He called the Reliant Stadium field conditions in Houston "rough." "I remember taking that step. I was going to really try to explode through, but with that field, I didn’t know if the ground was going to come out from under me, if it was going to give a little bit or if it was going to stay firm," he said. "I remember in my mind thinking I didn’t know what was going to happen in regards to that."

"From there, the knee just buckled and it was what it was. I hate to bash it or anything, but it’s not the best field out there. There are lot of inconsistencies as far as being able to play on and things like that. … I hope they make improvements down there in Houston on the field from this. I hope they do, just because it’s a crappy feeling. But you have to move on from it and you can’t really look back at that stuff."
Click to expand...
link
 
infantrycak said:
12 years seems like a plenty big sample size and to be redundant Welker didn't say his knee was due to Reliant. Belichick was covering for why he had his starters in during a meaningless game and a star got injured.
Click to expand...

CloakNNNdagger said:
If you try to find if Welker ever personally blamed the Reliant turf, you find hundreds of sources that only cite Belichick for the blame. But buried in an ESPN interview of Welker [follow the link below to ESPN] by Mike Reiss, who has covered the Patriots since 1997 and joined ESPN in 2009, you can "hear" Welker's own words concerning the incident.:

link
Click to expand...
Pretty damning. Even Cak would have to concede that point. But he probably won't.
 
infantrycak said:
I'd beat that in trial 11 times out of 12.
Click to expand...

The words of one player can be beat by a study covering 12 years. I'd love to see one. I wouldn't be surprised if NFL had at least an idea on what the stats were. I wonder if they would ever make it public. The fact that this field is allowed to exist suggests to me that it's within the NFL's range of acceptable quality. This might not be saying much, but has to be at least an indicator.
 
Cris Collingsworth went on a one minute spiel about how Field Turf is terrible for the players. Said players are sore much longer than if they played on real grass because you basically fall on concrete when tackled.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If you try to find if Welker ever personally blamed the Reliant turf, you find hundreds of sources that only cite Belichick for the blame. But buried in an ESPN interview of Welker [follow the link below to ESPN] by Mike Reiss, who has covered the Patriots since 1997 and joined ESPN in 2009, you can "hear" Welker's own words concerning the incident.:

link
Click to expand...

Reading that "description" doesn't really point to the tray system as the issue, unless we're saying he is describing the inconsistency of one pallet of grass vs another. When I hear that our field is bad, I'm thinking they're talking about the gaps & seams between the pallets.

Then if it's a matter of the consistency of one pallet vs the next you'd think the grounds keeper should be able to "fix" those issues.
 
I also wonder why the pallets have to be so small. We've seen newer stadiums where the whole field can be rolled in & out of the stadium. I know there are issues at NRG that makes it impossible to do the same thing, but surely we can come up with a system that allows longer, or wider pallets.

Instead of being square, they can be rectangular. If you're limited to 30 feet wide, then make them 30 feet by 150. So instead of having a hundred pallets, you only have 50 pallets & more consistency that way.
 
Nothing proven but topical article raising a question about the new artificial turfs:

Soccer coach Amy Griffin was in a Seattle hospital visiting a young goalie who was receiving chemotherapy when a nurse said something that made the hair on Griffin’s neck stand up.

It was 2009. Two young female goalies Griffin knew had been diagnosed with non-Hodgkin lymphoma. Griffin, associate head coach for the University of Washington’s women’s soccer team, had started to visit the women and other athletes in local hospitals, helping them pass the time during chemo with war stories from her three decades of coaching.

That day, the nurse looked down at the woman Griffin was sitting with and said, "Don't tell me you guys are goalkeepers. You're the fourth goalkeeper I've hooked up this week."

Since then, Griffin has compiled a list of 38 American soccer players -- 34 of them goalies – who have been diagnosed with cancer. At least a dozen played in Washington, but the geographic spread is nationwide. Blood cancers like lymphoma and leukemia dominate the list.

No research has linked cancer to artificial turf. Griffin collected names through personal experience with sick players, and acknowledges that her list is not a scientific data set. But it’s enough to make her ask whether crumb rubber artificial turf, a product that has been rolled out in tens of thousands of parks, playgrounds, schools and stadiums in the U.S., is safe for the athletes and kids who play on it. Others across the country are raising similar questions, arguing that the now-ubiquitous material, made out of synthetic fibers and scrap tire -- which can contain benzene, carbon black and lead, among other substances -- has not been adequately tested. Few studies have measured the risk of ingesting crumb rubber orally, for example.
Click to expand...

Link
 
infantrycak said:
Nothing proven but topical article raising a question about the new artificial turfs:

Link
Click to expand...

Very interesting.

From the American Cancer Society on benzene:

Does benzene cause cancer?

Benzene is known to cause cancer, based on evidence from studies in both people and lab animals. The link between benzene and cancer has largely focused on leukemia and cancers of other blood cells.

------------------------------

What expert agencies say

Several national and international agencies study substances in the environment to determine if they can cause cancer. The American Cancer Society looks to these organizations to evaluate the risks based on evidence from laboratory, animal, and human research studies.

Based on animal and human evidence, several expert agencies have evaluated the cancer-causing potential of benzene.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) is part of the World Health Organization (WHO). Its major goal is to identify causes of cancer. IARC classifies benzene as “carcinogenic to humans,” based on sufficient evidence that benzene causes acute myeloid leukemia (AML). IARC also notes that benzene exposure has been linked with acute lymphocytic leukemia (ALL), chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL), multiple myeloma, and non-Hodgkin lymphoma.

The National Toxicology Program (NTP) is formed from parts of several different US government agencies, including the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The NTP has classified benzene as “known to be a human carcinogen.”

The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) maintains the Integrated Risk Information System (IRIS), an electronic database that contains information on human health effects from exposure to various substances in the environment. The EPA classifies benzene as a known human carcinogen.

Source - American Cancer Society
Click to expand...

EPA on carbon black:

But, clearly, black carbon is associated with asthma, and other respiratory problems, low birth weights, heart attacks and lung cancer.

Source - U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
Click to expand...
 
You hear on the news all the time that people are growing entire pot farms in their homes. How hard would it be to put in a real field and set up some grow lights on that sucker?
 
Vinnie said:
You hear on the news all the time that people are growing entire pot farms in their homes. How hard would it be to put in a real field and set up some grow lights on that sucker?
Click to expand...

That's not the problem. The field has to come in and out for the other events.
 
Texans not concerned about two games on same field 18 hours apart

Link

One of the worst fields in the NFL could be even worse on Sunday.

The Texans host the Eagles today at NRG Stadium. As pointed out by Garret Heinrich of SportsRadio 610 in Houston, Sunday’s game comes 18 hours after a college game was played in the same building — and on the same field.

The Texans use trays of grass to construct a field, which results in seams and holes where the pots come together. While the stadium has two sets of grass trays and a FieldTurf surface that can be used, Heinrich explains that the short turnaround from college game to NFL game resulted in the same surface being used.

In Week One, Texans linebacker Jadeveon Clowney tore a meniscus when he jumped and landed on the turf. Teammate D.J. Swearinger blamed the injury on the field.

Hopefully, the field won’t cause any injuries today. At some point, the league and the NFLPA need to insist that teams provide consistent, safe surfaces.
Click to expand...

Hope the field's condition is not as bad as it is portrayed and there are no injuries.
 
playa465 said:
Texans not concerned about two games on same field 18 hours apart

Link



Hope the field's condition is not as bad as it is portrayed and there are no injuries.
Click to expand...

Posted by Mike Florio- no surprise from Florio to characterize it as one of the worst fields
 
This is a non-factor to me at this point. If there's a problem then clearly the Texans don't care about it. If there isn't then why keeping harping on it. I was once a proponent of getting rid of the trays and putting a good, widely accepted as safe Field Turf field down but now I'm just fine with what they have no matter how many teams play on it in whatever time frame they want to play on it in. Who cares? The only thing that matters is whether the players have a problem with it and since there's a clearly documented survey of NFL players that says they think it's awesome I don't know why it keeps coming up.

I'm done with the issue. It's not like the Texans would look any better on a different surface anyway.
 
I wonder which local reporter is trying to drum up the story. They were asking everyone they could about the turf.
 
pretty ridiculous that professional american football doesn't take what stadiums in professional soccer do when it comes to the field.

santiago bernabeu, camp nou, old trafford, etc have beautiful natural turf fields while the nfl plays on that crappy artificial crushed tires/shoes bullshit and sod.
 
Mr. Texan said:
pretty ridiculous that professional american football doesn't take what stadiums in professional soccer do when it comes to the field.

santiago bernabeu, camp nou, old trafford, etc have beautiful natural turf fields while the nfl plays on that crappy artificial crushed tires/shoes bullshit and sod.
Click to expand...

NRG's field is natural as well... the problem is that it is put in like a puzzle so there are patches where it suddenly is softer, or by some accounts near miniature sink holes, then the rest of the field causing trips and other injuries.

Sad to see DeMeco go down again on the field even if it did give us the ball back, especially since I think the last time he went down defending the red zone as well.
 
Hervoyel said:
This is a non-factor to me at this point. If there's a problem then clearly the Texans don't care about it. If there isn't then why keeping harping on it. I was once a proponent of getting rid of the trays and putting a good, widely accepted as safe Field Turf field down but now I'm just fine with what they have no matter how many teams play on it in whatever time frame they want to play on it in. Who cares? The only thing that matters is whether the players have a problem with it and since there's a clearly documented survey of NFL players that says they think it's awesome I don't know why it keeps coming up.

I'm done with the issue. It's not like the Texans would look any better on a different surface anyway.
Click to expand...

Hervoyel said:
None of that matters though. There was a poll years ago and players said it was absolutely perfect and since it's grass there's nothing more to say about it.

Go Texans!
Click to expand...

Here again is my answer to that argument.:

CloakNNNdagger said:
There is no doubt that most NFL players prefer a well-constructed, well-maintained grass field over one covered with synthetic turf. What I find somewhat curious is that the often-quoted 2010 NFLPA Survey is the only one that has been published and it was not all that well constructed to come away with usable valid information. For one thing, that survey rated the best and worst grass fields, and the best and worst artificial turf fields........there was no attempt to rate the best and worst FIELDS (combining both categories in one list). It is interesting to note that when players were asked "How do you rate your own home field?", Texans players giving their own Reliant an "excellent" (as opposed to "good," "fair" or "poor") grade (15.2%) put Reliant at 23rd in this category.

The truth of the matter is that the only way a valid player evaluation of NFL fields will ever occur is if an anonymous survey is taken from every player after each game (field conditions can change from week to week) with complete comparisons between and including all types of fields.
Click to expand...
 
Career ending knee or ankle injury to JJ Watt would barely make the powers that be move their ass to make this stadium turf safe.

It's all about the old boy cronies and hook-ups, follow the money.
 
RTP2110 said:
Ryans tore his Achilles today, curious to see if the field is going to receive any of the blame.
Click to expand...

Aside from the Houston CBS article, it looks like a little smoke in this csnphlly article could lead to fire.

The Texans organization brought it on themselves if this turns into the focal point of DeMeco's injury (and it will).

Good God. Philadelphia Eagle players b!tching about another team's playing surface.....how times have changed.

Ryans stayed down on NRG Stadium’s threadbare grassy field, which had hosted a college game the night before, while the Texans recovered the fumble. Only a few minutes passed before the motorized cart came across the sideline to take Ryans back to the locker room.
Click to expand...
 
qqert said:
Career ending knee or ankle injury to JJ Watt would barely make the powers that be move their ass to make this stadium turf safe.

It's all about the old boy cronies and hook-ups, follow the money.
Click to expand...

Disagree. I said it before: This turf could take down JJ at some point. No, I don't want it to happen, but, the Texans are just being so thick-headed and short-sighted about this issue that it's going to take something huge to wake them up.

Paying a player $100 million, and then giving him a terrible field to play on, makes zero sense, and will catch up to them at some point...
 
Grass strikes again. man Yall are right it will take a, Jj watt injury or starting QB to make nrg flinch I guess
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top