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NRG Stadium's Hazardous Turf

Q

qqert

Rookie
HOUSTON – KHOU 11 Sports reported on Sunday that Texans rookie Jadeveon Clowney tore his meniscus during the season opener against the Redskins.

How he did it is the topic of conversation on Monday.

NFL Network reporter Albert Breer reported on Twitter that Clowney told teammate DJ Swearinger he had stepped in a hole in the NRG Turf.
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khou _


Wes Welker got injured there.
Brett Hartmann did too.

Will it take a JJ Watt/Andre Johnson injury for the stadium folk to change to natural grass?

Football is tough enough to play, least they can do is give the players a solid ground to play on.
 
NRG stadium is not just a football stadium... besides, how do you propose to raise natural grass in a dome?
 
The stadium doesn't let enough light in for a permanent field which is why they have the trays of grass.

Most of the players don't want fieldturf.

Reliant/NRG has repeatedly graded well in polls of NFL players.
 
I would think that they would just need to make a small portion of one end zone removable, and they'd be able to slide one giant tray in and out similar to the Arizona stadium. Surely much easier said than done.
 
Marcus said:
The turf did not cause Clowney's injury.
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And you know this how?

The turf had a rep before this injury. Has any other player been injured by the turf IYO?

Hartsmann filed suit, so obviously he feels differently and he (You know has played on the turf.)
 
RTP2110 said:
I would think that they would just need to make a small portion of one end zone removable, and they'd be able to slide one giant tray in and out similar to the Arizona stadium. Surely much easier said than done.
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How do you propose to do that? What's going to hold up the stands above? What would you do with the foundation already in place for the supporting structures that hold up that whole end zone stand?

The NRG/Reliant is stuck with either the tray system for natural grass or some version of field turf. Like icak mentioned, the Texans field grades well in NFL player surveys.

I've only heard 2 players that have played on the field voice their opinion on it. ND Kalu said he preferred it to any artificial surface a couple of years ago, and a few weeks ago I heard Seth Payne mention on the radio that he didn't like that surface and preferred the field turf.
 
RTP2110 said:
I would think that they would just need to make a small portion of one end zone removable, and they'd be able to slide one giant tray in and out similar to the Arizona stadium. Surely much easier said than done.
Click to expand...

Redesigned containers/connectors makes more sense. I'm sure there is a way to do it right without a massive facelift of a fairly new facility.
 
I heard that they went with that field because of the rodeo.

On the radio they said that the field isn't horrible, but it's not great either. Said it's not what you'd expect for an nfl stadium. Quite a few holes and patches in it.
 
This just in from the '70's Browns and 49'ers, it simply says..............."Pussiez!"

:kitten:

[IMGwidthsize=700]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r65/ShowtimeN15580/Houston%20Texans/turf-browns-niners-mud-1974-nl_zps4df112a1.jpg[/IMG]
 
qqert said:
http://instagram.com/p/sQaMDFvtM1/

i wouldn't want my foot getting caught between these gaps when running.
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Exactly. It's not the grass itself that's the problem, it is the seams between the pallets.

fwiw, my oldest son played several games in Reliant before they went to artificial turf for non-Texans games (he played at SFA and their rivalry with Sam - Battle of Piney Woods - has been at the stadium for several years now).

His personal experience is that the grass itself is nice, but there are definitely some seams that the players would warn each other about and try to avoid.

I don't know how anyone can look at that picture and say it is NEVER a problem. That's just not being realistic about it.
 
I don't think the truf cause Clowneys' injury. I just looked to me like he came down funny. I hope they don't go to field turf because I like the smell of earth in that stadium.
 
ubecool454 said:
I don't think the truf cause Clowneys' injury. I just looked to me like he came down funny. I hope they don't go to field turf because I like the smell of earth in that stadium.
Click to expand...
He did come down funny........in a hole.....in the ground......where the green grass grows..... all around all around......where the green grass grows..... all around.
 
Double Barrel said:
Exactly. It's not the grass itself that's the problem, it is the seams between the pallets.

fwiw, my oldest son played several games in Reliant before they went to artificial turf for non-Texans games (he played at SFA and their rivalry with Sam - Battle of Piney Woods - has been at the stadium for several years now).

His personal experience is that the grass itself is nice, but there are definitely some seams that the players would warn each other about and try to avoid.

I don't know how anyone can look at that picture and say it is NEVER a problem. That's just not being realistic about it.
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Yeah, some of those pictures look ridiculous. I wonder how this system works... Do these pallets sit outside in the parking lot in the same configuration as inside or do they just put random pallets together because they're "interchangeable"? My instinct tells me that having them outside in the same configuration as they would be inside might minimize the issue.

Other than that, this might be a flawed system that needs to be redesigned.
 
The problems is NOT the pallets fitting too loosely apart. I was given several tours of the stadium when it was being built and when the pallets were first introduced. The first thing I noticed is that the dirt/grass was entirely exposed in its perimeter with a very thin type of mesh.

0C8AB429CC2A4460AEDB1F593893636B.ashx


Looking at the pallets from the sides essentially showed the sod in cross section like looking into an ant farm with some of the roots being exposed. The roots in these perimeter areas (the seam areas) were by definition weaker than those located further towards the center of the pallet. When regular sod is first laid down side-by-side in your yard, it is very weak at the seams and you are encouraged to avoid running on it because it will separate, evert or settle/collapse/depress at the seams. But over time, the dirt and grass roots will tightly merge as one at all of the seams. With the NRG pallet system, this merging is not given the time to form these tight bondings. This process is further weakened by questionable sunlight delivery. And whatever bonding may have occurred with time, it is completely disrupted when the pallets are moved out into the parking lot or replaced.

sod-cross-section-medium.jpg
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The problems is NOT the pallets fitting too loosely apart. I was given several tours of the stadium when it was being built and when the pallets were first introduced. The first thing I noticed is that the dirt/grass was entirely exposed in its perimeter with a very thin type of mesh.

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jo...~/media/0C8AB429CC2A4460AEDB1F593893636B.ashx

Looking at the pallets from the sides essentially showed the sod in cross section like looking into an ant farm with some of the roots being exposed. The roots in these perimeter areas (the seam areas) were by definition weaker than those located further towards the center of the pallet. When regular sod is first laid down side-by-side in your yard, it is very weak at the seams and you are encouraged to avoid running on it because it will separate, evert or settle/collapse/depress at the seams. But over time, the dirt and grass roots will tightly merge as one at all of the seams. With the NRG pallet system, this merging is not given the time to form these tight bondings. This process is further weakened by questionable sunlight delivery. And whatever bonding may have occurred with time, it is completely disrupted when the pallets are moved out into the parking lot or replaced.

http://thegrassoutlet.com/assets/sod-cross-section-medium.jpg
Click to expand...

So, one solution, to encourage the root strengthening around the seams, would be to leave the grass indoors for as long as possible. That won't work by itself because the grass will die of the lack of light.

Many stadiums in Europe had similar issues because most of them have roofs over stands and don't allow enough light into at least the southern end of the field. In recent years this problem was solved by using artificial lighting systems similar to this one.

article-2259001-16CAB7CD000005DC-445_634x423.jpg


This could be a solution at Reliant with one caveat. What to do during other events scheduled there.

If it's a concert, I imagine something can be built on top of the grass. As to other games that Reliant purchased the field turf for, I don't know what to do with that...
 
Double Barrel said:
DJ Swearinger's Audio on the BLITZ

Swearinger straight up said that there are holes in the turf and problems with the seams. This is an interview and straight from a Texans player's mouth.
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In spite of my previous post which was just meant in jest, this is good enough for me. He plays on it. Good enough in my book.

I knew the turf at Reliant was less than ideal (NRG doesn't work for me :D), but this discussion has been eye-opening for me. Fix it, guys. It's just plain stupid the NFL and venues in particular can't get the playing surface right.
 
You would think spending millions on players and them having them get injured because of your shitty field would provide the necessary incentive to fix that.
 
eriadoc said:
You would think spending millions on players and them having them get injured because of your shitty field would provide the necessary incentive to fix that.
Click to expand...

Yes, but want to don't mean know how...
 
Double Barrel said:
DJ Swearinger's Audio on the BLITZ

Swearinger straight up said that there are holes in the turf and problems with the seams. This is an interview and straight from a Texans player's mouth.
Click to expand...

Thing is when asked whether to keep the current system or go to fieldturf DJ is in the minority of Texans players if he votes fieldturf.

No easy solutions on this one. Let's grant all 3 claimed injuries Hartman, Clowney and Welker - well there are studies that fieldturf would have resulted in more injuries over natural grass also. There's a reason many NFL coaches do things like hold AJ out from practicing in the fieldturf practice bubble.

Not you, but I don't see why people get so witch hunt on this issue. I think the best bet is somehow improving the tray system they have or hiring a new head groundskeeper to do a better job with it. But nothing is clear cut.
 
infantrycak said:
Thing is when asked whether to keep the current system or go to fieldturf DJ is in the minority of Texans players if he votes fieldturf.

No easy solutions on this one. Let's grant all 3 claimed injuries Hartman, Clowney and Welker - well there are studies that fieldturf would have resulted in more injuries over natural grass also. There's a reason many NFL coaches do things like hold AJ out from practicing in the fieldturf practice bubble.

Not you, but I don't see why people get so witch hunt on this issue. I think the best bet is somehow improving the tray system they have or hiring a new head groundskeeper to do a better job with it. But nothing is clear cut.
Click to expand...

I think it's because it looks bad on TV (inconsistent color from tray to tray), and since it got some bad rep after Welker injury, it gets brought up any time there is any injury that could possibly be attributed to the surface.

I tend to believe the studies that say players prefer the Reliant tray system to any field turf, but I think there HAS to be a way to improve the issue with seams.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The problems is NOT the pallets fitting too loosely apart. I was given several tours of the stadium when it was being built and when the pallets were first introduced. The first thing I noticed is that the dirt/grass was entirely exposed in its perimeter with a very thin type of mesh.

0C8AB429CC2A4460AEDB1F593893636B.ashx


Looking at the pallets from the sides essentially showed the sod in cross section like looking into an ant farm with some of the roots being exposed. The roots in these perimeter areas (the seam areas) were by definition weaker than those located further towards the center of the pallet. When regular sod is first laid down side-by-side in your yard, it is very weak at the seams and you are encouraged to avoid running on it because it will separate, evert or settle/collapse/depress at the seams. But over time, the dirt and grass roots will tightly merge as one at all of the seams. With the NRG pallet system, this merging is not given the time to form these tight bondings. This process is further weakened by questionable sunlight delivery. And whatever bonding may have occurred with time, it is completely disrupted when the pallets are moved out into the parking lot or replaced.

sod-cross-section-medium.jpg
Click to expand...

msr to lord CnD
 
I wonder if DJ will be looking for a job anytime soon, as he may have just come close to making our past kicker's lawsuit. Management is probably wondering if DJ ever learns when to possibly hold his tongue.
 
I don't know. If there are problems with the field, fix it. Texans should want to protect their investments so I can't see why they wouldn't spend a couple hundred thousand or a few mil to protect players they are paying way more.

If there's a problem with the field I think they'll look into it.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I don't know. If there are problems with the field, fix it. Texans should want to protect their investments so I can't see why they wouldn't spend a couple hundred thousand or a few mil to protect players they are paying way more.

If there's a problem with the field I think they'll look into it.
Click to expand...

They have addressed it somewhat by not using it for college and HS games. Sometimes the field would be terrible, or they would just replace the middle pallets between the hash marks.
 
JamesBill said:
They have addressed it somewhat by not using it for college and HS games. Sometimes the field would be terrible, or they would just replace the middle pallets between the hash marks.
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And they have a total of IIRC 3 full fields now.

I really wonder if this is something a new groundskeeper can't improve. The field varies significantly between games and sometimes the installation looks sloppy. But that doesn't mean overreact.
 
Trap_Star said:
this was the field at NRG about a month ago when ac milan and guadalajara played an exhibition match.

2qtei6e.jpg
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Now seriously this get s back to earlier points made by DB and others. Is the standard golf course green? That standard isn't met in Pittsburgh lambeau new England any stadium that shares with a baseball team old Texas stadium with its sun issues (finally a comma), yada yada. Why is Reliant being held to this ridiculous San Diego standard?
 
I guess god forbid (knocks on wood ) it will take a injury from JJ watt or whoever our starting qb is for them to take some action on this issues

cus I think andre already got nixed by this field so yeah

they should at least address it down on NRG

maybe they should of the grounds keepers before the game go over all the field and seems and holes and try to fix it before the game some how
 
“The maintnence of that field, the design of that field is an abomination. And it’s not just an abomination of how it looks, it’s the affect it has on these players.” Gene Egdorf, the attorney who represents former Texans Punter Brett Hartman told SportsRadio 610’s The Triple Threat.
...

“I definitely think they need to do something about it. We like the grass, but I think there definitely could be a better way to put the grass down,” D.J. Swearinger told ESPN Radio.

“When we go out there for walkthrough, somedays we may see a hole and we ask coach ‘What’s going on today? Can they fix this?'”
...

“They use these square trays, and we see seams when we are up in the stands. There are 1,400 of those trays that make up that field. So think about it. You have four seams for every square don’t you. There are 5,000 seams on that field. That is more than you ever had on an astroturf field. And didn’t we always hear about the seams on the astroturf fields?” Egdorf told SportsRadio 610.

Egdorf added the system was developed by an Australian company, but no one else uses the system in the United States.

“SMG has been trying to get more and more events at (NRG) stadium and they’ve over booked at the cost of the field,” Egdorf said. “When cost cutting takes precedent over safety people get hurt and that’s what happened to (Jadeveon Clowney) on Sunday.”

...Before the Redskins game, the surface in NRG stadium was so bad that D.J. Swearinger realized it was a potential health risk.

“We actually said that the day before (the injury). If somebody was running right here and (they) plant, their ACL or MCL is gone just because of how deep the holes are,” Swearinger said.

Players are aware of the potential for injury with NRG’s field. So much so, Swearinger checks his footing before each play.
“I was just checking my feet before I even get down in my stance,” Swearinger continued. “Just to make sure I don’t have a gap or a hole next to my feet.”
...
“The turf down there is terrible,” Bill Belichick told Boston’s WEEI-FM the day after Wes Welker tore his ACL at then Reliant Stadium. “It’s terrible. It’s just inconsistent. It’s all the little trays of grass and some of them are soft and some of them are firm and they don’t all fit well together, those seams… Some of it feels like a sponge, some of it feels real firm and hard like the Miami surface. One step you’re on one, the other step you’re on another. I really think it’s one of the worst fields I’ve seen.”
...

“The Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo has no say or preference in the surface used for Texans games,”Joel Cowley, President and CEO of the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo told SportsRadio 610 through a spokesperson. “They have their six months and we have ours.”

So who has the final say on whether or not the current field should stay or go?
“The Texans have taken the position, historically, that the field issues are all up to SMG,” Egdorf said. “The way I understand it, from my involvement in the case, legally they don’t have the sole authority but in reality they do..."

The condition of the Texans field has been an on-air topic on multiple occasion. Al Michaels and Cris Collinsworth have commented about it on Sunday night football. Tony Dungy, the former Colts head coach who used to have his team play on the surface, has also commented publicly on it before.

“Everybody except SMG and Mr. McNair seem to recognize it.” Egdorf said.
SportsRadio 610 reached out to the Houston Texans for comment, but the request was not immediately returned.
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http://houston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/09/nrg-stadiums-playing-surface-an-abomination/
 
I don't care what it looks like, but if there are holes and soft spots, you can't be expected to run around full speed on that and not eventually step in one. Hell, even if you just turn an ankle, wouldn't that piss you off? It'd be like having gopher holes in a regular football field.
 
infantrycak said:
Thing is when asked whether to keep the current system or go to fieldturf DJ is in the minority of Texans players if he votes fieldturf.

No easy solutions on this one. Let's grant all 3 claimed injuries Hartman, Clowney and Welker - well there are studies that fieldturf would have resulted in more injuries over natural grass also. There's a reason many NFL coaches do things like hold AJ out from practicing in the fieldturf practice bubble.

Not you, but I don't see why people get so witch hunt on this issue. I think the best bet is somehow improving the tray system they have or hiring a new head groundskeeper to do a better job with it. But nothing is clear cut.
Click to expand...

I agree about no easy solution. I'm like you in that I am only analyzing all perspectives, but do not have an agenda either way.

I think the primary problem is having to move those trays in and out for other events and not letting the grass grow and bond at the seams. I do not know how they will be able to fix that while also trying to make money on other events at NRG. It seems like a damned if they do/damned if they don't situation.

Arizona has the best solution, IMO, but that's just not feasible for a variety of reasons at NRG.
 
Norg said:
I guess god forbid (knocks on wood ) it will take a injury from JJ watt or whoever our starting qb is for them to take some action on this issues



cus I think andre already got nixed by this field so yeah



they should at least address it down on NRG



maybe they should of the grounds keepers before the game go over all the field and seems and holes and try to fix it before the game some how
Click to expand...


Yep. The Texans have been ignoring this for years, and will eventually learn a very hard lesson. I don't want it to happen, but, it'll probably take the downfall of one of our superstars for them to get it.
 
That's all I need to see.

Fix it, or be prepared to settle lots of injury law suits.

Inconceivable that any team would play on that the way
it is in the photo..

Trap_Star said:
this was the field at NRG about a month ago when ac milan and guadalajara played an exhibition match.

2qtei6e.jpg
Click to expand...
 
paycheck71 said:
So, one solution, to encourage the root strengthening around the seams, would be to leave the grass indoors for as long as possible. That won't work by itself because the grass will die of the lack of light.

Many stadiums in Europe had similar issues because most of them have roofs over stands and don't allow enough light into at least the southern end of the field. In recent years this problem was solved by using artificial lighting systems similar to this one.

article-2259001-16CAB7CD000005DC-445_634x423.jpg


This could be a solution at Reliant with one caveat. What to do during other events scheduled there.

If it's a concert, I imagine something can be built on top of the grass. As to other games that Reliant purchased the field turf for, I don't know what to do with that...
Click to expand...

kingtexan said:
Same way you grow pot in a barn or a basement ...
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BullNation4Life said:
artificial sunlight...

would be cool if they had a devise that could raise and lower the field to the roof so it can get the sun needed. Then before game day, lower it down onto the surface...
Click to expand...

Like I mentioned earlier, the technology for that exists and is used widely at lleast in Europe.

If they decided to keep the field inside for the entire season, this is how it could be done. But even then I don't think it could withstand multiple games per week, which is why Reliant also has the field turf it lays down for the college and HS games. I have no idea how you could lay that over the grass, though.
 
paycheck71 said:
Like I mentioned earlier, the technology for that exists and is used widely at lleast in Europe.

If they decided to keep the field inside for the entire season, this is how it could be done. But even then I don't think it could withstand multiple games per week, which is why Reliant also has the field turf it lays down for the college and HS games. I have no idea how you could lay that over the grass, though.
Click to expand...

That would be great, but none of those stadiums in Europe have the HLS&R as a major partner or any of the other events that NRG holds.

Maybe they could move the trays into the stadium in May and keep them there until the end of the football stadium... not gonna happen
 
Trap_Star said:
this was the field at NRG about a month ago when ac milan and guadalajara played an exhibition match.

2qtei6e.jpg
Click to expand...

No offense to Trap_Star but that isn't anything like the field looks for NFL games.

How about using some actual NFL Reliant photos:

The trays are visible to varying degrees but I've never seen anything that could vaguely be described as a hole.
th

2752244354_a1c2b19c8f_z.jpg

[IMGwidthsize=400]http://ronenews92fm.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/houston-texans-field.jpg[/IMG]
IMG_8005sm.jpg


Some of y'all are confused and are looking for:

th
 
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