OzzO
.. and then?
How about field turf over dirt? Just roll it out for game day & tack it down... how, I have no idea.
Then when a concrete floor is needed, roll up the turf and scoop out the dirt.
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NRG Stadium's Hazardous Turf
- Thread starter qqert
- Start date
How about field turf over dirt? Just roll it out for game day & tack it down... how, I have no idea.
Then when a concrete floor is needed, roll up the turf and scoop out the dirt.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
How about field turf over dirt? Just roll it out for game day & tack it down... how, I have no idea.
Then when a concrete floor is needed, roll up the turf and scoop out the dirt.
The majority of players don't want fieldturf and at the end of the day their opinion should be what decides.
As a reminder once again. The Texans have fieldturf inside the practice bubble. Players with histories of knee injuries commonly sit out practices when in the bubble.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
Don't know what they actually did for the soccer game, but that photo looks like they didn't use the tray system, but instead laid some brand new sod directly onto the floor and filled the the seams with sand. Not an indicator of field quality during Texans games.
ESPN is jumping on board with "NRG field sucks" bandwagon. Just heard them mention it when briefly when showing Clowney walking off to the locker room.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
That soccer game was definitely not played on the normal tray grass.
Here is a closer shot:
Caption: "The state of the field came into question as A.C. Milan played Chivas de Guadalajara in an international friendly soccer game at NRG Stadium Wednesday, Aug. 6, 2014, in Houston." Source
Like you said, it appears to be new rolls of sod with sand in the seams.
Do you have a source to say the majority of current Texans support the tray system? I just haven't seen any of them comment other than to say 'no comment.' Curious to see if there was something published
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'll look around but they have come up and general rankings too like when Belichick criticized it about Welker (who iirc never complained about the field) when Reliant had been ranked 4th best by players. Link
Here's another survey of NFL players (Link):
More likely to cause injury? 84.8% artificial
Soreness and fatigue? 91% artificial
Shorten your career? 92.6% artificial
How do you rate your home field - Texans? 80%+ good or excellent.
In that survey, Reliant 10th of the 18th grass fields.
How significant are the groundskeepers? 84.6% very.
Yeah the survey is a few years old but the design of the field hasn't changed so once again I'm pointing fingers to the groundskeepers rather than the design for problems.
Edit: has anyone seen anything from Welker? All I see are comments from Belichick who frankly was most likely covering for his own stupidity having Welker in the game.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
To follow up on Paycheck's postings. Some pics of similar systems of "grow lights" for large stadium grass fields. These are placed on various multiple mobile units.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I doubt that with all the onslaught of negative publicity and the pending litigation, most players would hesitate to give an opinion that is negative.........all except maybe DJ....and I expect that to have a lid put on it.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
In stadium grow lights don't solve the problem. It's a multi-use venue.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Do they book events that require the turf to come out during football season? I honestly don't know the answer to that question but if they could leave the grass in from say July until the end of football season under grow lights then would that let the pallets grow together enough to eliminate the seams? Maybe not being able to book events that require the field to come out for half the year is the price of getting this sorted out?
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
Things like concerts would not be a problem, I think.
The only thing I can think of that is a problem is playing multiple football games at Reliant, as they do now. It just won't have enough time to recover for Texans games if they play HS and college on the same field. We've seen that before. That's why they got the field turf that gets laid down for non Texans games now. And I'm pretty sure you need a solid surface for that (i.e. you need to take the trays out).
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
Yeah, the Cardinal stadium had the benefit of seeing how the Reliant design worked out. Overall, a much better system there.
OzzO
.. and then?
Yeah, but I noted field turf over dirt.... not the field turf over rubber and concrete. But hey, thanks for the reminder once again.
I was looking at the Detroit game on Monday and thought why don't we use that type of field. I know players don't like field turf, but I wonder if players have the same type of injuries there as they do here.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The players feel they have more injuries on artificial turf and the stats back them. Knees and feet issues are particularly prevalent.
The best solution from a purely football perspective would be to grow the field inside the stadium and leave it there for 6 months. I would think even with other games being played there, they could still manage to keep it nice like other stadiums do. They could still use the pallet system, but do not remove them until football season is over.
Maybe not economically viable from a stadium profit perspective, though, but seems like the stadium was original built with two specific purposes: football and rodeo. Neither has a season that overlaps, so maybe they should go back to the basics and quit trying to pimp out the building during something as important as football season. They'd still have 6 other months to hold any type of events they want to in it.
Maybe not economically viable from a stadium profit perspective, though, but seems like the stadium was original built with two specific purposes: football and rodeo. Neither has a season that overlaps, so maybe they should go back to the basics and quit trying to pimp out the building during something as important as football season. They'd still have 6 other months to hold any type of events they want to in it.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That does seem like the best solution IMO. I can't imagine the revenue from HS games is anything more than PR really. There aren't that many college games there. But folks need to also realize that might result in a field which is much better in terms of the tray seam issues but results in a field which sometimes is less aesthetically pleasing due to having been played on. It would also make the grow lights a practical possibly required consideration.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Pretty much my suggestion. Just suck it up and grow a field in there for 6 months out of the year. Everybody plays on it and don't overbook it with high school and college games. A few maybe when practical but mostly just use it for Texans football during the season. Grow lights replace the sun and the groundskeepers get to work on a field that isn't constantly moving around and changing. I'm sure there would be pluses to that along with the negatives.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Is this different than what they did the first 10 years of so of the stadium's life? I know they didn't have any other system than the pallets, and I know they were regularly changing out the pallets between the hashmarks because of wear from HS and college games. This is what prompted the addition of the Astro Turf option a couple of years ago in the first place.
What I don't know is if they were attempting to leave the pallets in place 24/7 for several months during the season, or were removing it occasionally for other purposes even when it was the sole playing surface option they had. But here's a quote I found from when they were first putting in the artificial alternative:
LINK
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I've been following this durable option for a while after it was installed at Wembleton............supposedly with the safety profile of grass, but able to take much more punishment.
The Desso hybrid grass system
(Click on the video to the right side of the page near the bottom for a visual explanation of the system)
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I took a tour of Lambeau Field a couple of years ago. I don't know if this is the same system they have, but when we were on the field, the tour guide told us that it's not all natural surface, it's a hybrid with strands of artificial grass weaved in. Given the weather in Green Bay late in the season, I think it holds up really well.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Mile High and Lambeau use Desso. Now how compatible is it with the rodeo? And both those plus Wimbledon are truly open.
austins23
Hall of Fame
Wasn't there some talk also about how crappy the Mile High field looked Sunday night? I only saw replays, but it looked pretty crappy to me.
But where is the balance between crappy looking and safety. I would go for safety all the time but I always hear how "the field looked like crap".
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The pallets remaining in place, the only possible present solution, are also not compatible. The Desso system would obviously imply the need for artificial grow light help.
Desso GrassMaster best professional sports field in America
b0ng
Bad Hombre
The study you linked is well over 4 years old, and was before the Welker, Hartmann, Clowney injury (As well as before the AJ no-contact injury vs Pittsburgh in 2010).
Opinions on this stuff changes fairly quickly, especially with the players. I also don't see how tv viewers not being able to see the holes from TV makes the field acceptable. The biggest problem, as CnD has correctly noted, is that the seams between the pallets are especially weak because no grass has had the time to bond with the soil from one pallet to the next. I think most, if not all, Texans fans would want their team playing on nice even footing without having to know where soft spots, holes and seams are, and I don't think fans are wrong to want that.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Never said otherwise but if people are acting like the tray system is inherently flawed then it doesn't matter. The field was used for years and ranked high. If you want to say something has changed then as I have said it sounds like how the field maintenance is being done since the design hasn't changed.
Who said anything about TV? My observation was from the 1st row for years of Texans games.
I want whatever is best for the players/their preference which is consistent with the constraints of the facility. What I do not want is the field being scapegoated for ordinary NFL injuries or changed for aesthetics as has been too often a complaint over the years.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I will agree that we all want our team to play on the best surface possible.
But I think it shouldn't matter one bit what the fans think that surface should be. I agree with infantrycak that most likely the groundskeeper at Reliant is not doing his job as the most likely problem, if there even is a problem. The playing surface has to pass an independent QA inspection before each NFL game, and there has never been a problem. Definitely not before the season opener this year (there was an article on that in the chronicle)
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
...
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm all for improving the system. But I caution those who expect to never see the seems. You can even see the direction the lawnmowers traveled on a typical grass field from the stands so that is not going to be a factor in determining the safety of this system.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The practice field isn't trays.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
How many injuries from that game? Perhaps sand, which looks bad, but evens the surfaces can prevent injuries.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
If the stadium field did not need to be removable, then there would be no need for trays. But it is and trays are the best solution at this moment in time. Perhaps a better one is in the offing.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I have no reason to doubt any of your comments, and I don't have any first or second hand knowledge how this is handled. I was just going off this article in the Chronicle.
LINK
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I can understand what you are trying to point out. But the trays can only fit the way they were manufactured. No matter how much the adjacent borders are raked and groomed, they will always have some semblance of instability which will be easily further disrupted with concentrated game day player / cleat forces. The principles of the maintenance of the grass within the trays meanwhile remains similar.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Changes to the tray system that can be done include depth and material contained within the sod, type of grass and growth parameters. Also, you could re-engineer the joints to make them tighter. But improvements are usually the exception and not the rule to such experimentation. But the improvements should always be sought until there are no issues.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Granted and yet we see significant game day variation. Some days the seams are almost invisible and others it looks like the Samsonite monkeys installed them.
Did anyone catch the Baltimore Ravens turf on the Thursday night game? It was beautiful!! It has always stood out to me, but with our situation here in Houston i really took notice and became jealous.
I was against turf because the artificial turf we used for LSU vs Wisconsin literally looked like a rug or a cheap porch grass. The Ravens Turf was bold with color....
Gross.........
BTW lets bring back the blue endzone....
I was against turf because the artificial turf we used for LSU vs Wisconsin literally looked like a rug or a cheap porch grass. The Ravens Turf was bold with color....
Gross.........
BTW lets bring back the blue endzone....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And we're off into aesthetics instead of safety.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Rodney Harrison chiming in calling Reliants field "garbage" and the "worst in the NFL" per Florio on the radio this morning.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
No matter what, an imperfect system at best. For purposes of rearrangement, theses pallets don't lock into place. They rely on simple adjacent abutment.
mgur.com/a/ji8DN
mgur.com/a/ji8DN
BullNation4Life
All Pro
did Harrison notice the bad turf before or after he was giving a WR a cheap shot to the head?
Complete and utter bullsheet. It would be far LESS expensive to get field turf than to keep running trays of grass in and out for over a decade. If it was so expensive, they never could have afforded the turf field for HS/College that is used now.
Strangely, a normal canvass of opinions of NFL players in general did so.
Still doesn't help when you have to keep pulling the field in/out of the stadium. I guess they could run it for a few days and hope it helps.
Agreed. Unfortunately, the stadium design doesn't allow for that large of a horizontal space coming in. That said, they could probably get a 3x3 grid of palets through it just fine. Any reduction in seams would help.
I've been on the field repeatedly and see it close up every game. At kickoff, I've never seen "holes" anywhere. The field used to look like hell when they had HS or college play a few days previous though.
BTW, 2011 poll - Reliant 7 of 18 grass fields. Link
Agreed.