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Nick Caserio - New GM

Let’s get one thing that’s very important out the way. This is not an expansion team. So let’s not treat it as such.

The season is still fresh/young and the division is up for grabs. Therefore, winning games should be priority period. If it’s not ( something that they’re clearly not on the same page with) important to them, they are doing a disservice to those players, coaches and most importantly the fans. Now if the team loses, let them lose on their on merit. That tanking stuff is for losers and that will not build up a winning culture in the future.

Sandman mentioned the Astros. They lost because they were old and they just wasn’t good. They did not tank so they could build for the future. And guess what every team will not be able to follow the Astros path to success. Some teams like the Browns took at least 10 years. The Jaguars had one successful season after being bad for years. After that successful season, they went back to dumpsterville.
 
Speedy said:
The Astros absolutely tanked. They traded away everybody, Berkman, Pence, Carlos Lee, and threw a team out there barely above $20M in payroll.
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I agree. My issue, because I was all about the rebuild, is that Caserio did not do that. He squeezed every penny he could find out of every rock he could look under & then started flipping the couch cushions.

Traded away draft picks like dirty underwear getting nothing in return.

Acting like he wants to win, but when you look at what he brought in, it's hard to say that was his goal.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Let’s get one thing that’s very important out the way. This is not an expansion team. So let’s not treat it as such.

The season is still fresh/young and the division is up for grabs. Therefore, winning games should be priority period. If it’s not ( something that they’re clearly not on the same page with) important to them, they are doing a disservice to those players, coaches and most importantly the fans. Now if the team loses, let them lose on their on merit. That tanking stuff is for losers and that will not build up a winning culture in the future.

Sandman mentioned the Astros. They lost because they were old and they just wasn’t good. They did not tank so they could build for the future. And guess what every team will not be able to follow the Astros path to success. Some teams like the Browns took at least 10 years. The Jaguars had one successful season after being bad for years. After that successful season, they went back to dumpsterville.
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1. Who is treating this as an expansion team? That's an odd assertion on your part. What part of the team that OB as both a HC and GM left in his wake was good enough to keep around? I'm not talking individual players. I am talking about what parts of this team were considered good when he left? Oline? Dline? Secondary? Linebackers? Running backs? Special teams? What quality core that was at least NFL average was there to build around? Was the new staff not supposed to try and find guys that fit their schemes? There is always change between regimes, especially when the previous regime played his fiddle while it burned to the ground.

2. How exactly are the coaching staff/players not trying to win games or make winning a priority? Specifics please.

3. The Texans do not magically develop more talent because other teams in division or on the schedule are struggling at this point in the season.

4. The talent gap with the Colts and Titans still exists, those teams are just playing below expectations. Which can be corrected. You can't correct lack of talent. If anything, in some of these games they have been outplaying their talent, but everything regresses to the mean.

5. The Astros have already been addressed by others, but yes there is always the risk that the turnaround doesn't happen on schedule. Or at all. Personally, I am just kind of done with the "9-7" and "WC Game" culture and recognize that a rebuild is needed. Keep what is good, get rid of the rest. Wholesale and without prejudice. Not saying you have to agree with me.
 
sandman said:
1. Who is treating this as an expansion team? That's an odd assertion on your part. What part of the team that OB as both a HC and GM left in his wake was good enough to keep around? I'm not talking individual players. I am talking about what parts of this team were considered good when he left? Oline? Dline? Secondary? Linebackers? Running backs? Special teams? What quality core that was at least NFL average was there to build around? Was the new staff not supposed to try and find guys that fit their schemes? There is always change between regimes, especially when the previous regime played his fiddle while it burned to the ground.

2. How exactly are the coaching staff/players not trying to win games or make winning a priority? Specifics please.

3. The Texans do not magically develop more talent because other teams in division or on the schedule are struggling at this point in the season.

4. The talent gap with the Colts and Titans still exists, those teams are just playing below expectations. Which can be corrected. You can't correct lack of talent. If anything, in some of these games they have been outplaying their talent, but everything regresses to the mean.

5. The Astros have already been addressed by others, but yes there is always the risk that the turnaround doesn't happen on schedule. Or at all. Personally, I am just kind of done with the "9-7" and "WC Game" culture and recognize that a rebuild is needed. Keep what is good, get rid of the rest. Wholesale and without prejudice. Not saying you have to agree with me.
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The GM is not making winning a priority.

Those teams are not good period. When have those two teams been consistently good in the past 10 years?

We’re all done with the 9-7 records but with this team that’s a positive. Especially with all the of nonsense and drama/adversity that they’re going through.

Hypothetically speaking: say if you did have a successful season. You trade 4 for let’s say 2 firsts , 1 second, 1 third in 2022. You also get a first and second in 2023 and a few players. Wouldn’t the rebuild be quicker and you’re able to build/add to that successful team.

Why do they have to have a terrible season to rebuild?
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree. My issue, because I was all about the rebuild, is that Caserio did not do that. He squeezed every penny he could find out of every rock he could look under & then started flipping the couch cushions.

Traded away draft picks like dirty underwear getting nothing in return.

Acting like he wants to win, but when you look at what he brought in, it's hard to say that was his goal.
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Doing pick swaps and trading 5th rd picks for guys like Miller isn't going to hurt the franchise. They're tanking, pure and simple this should've been obvious by the Culley hire.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Wow so Mr. Tex just said they tank either. My business partner believes they tank either. But you post UGH how is that everybody on the planet believes they tanked. Therefore everyone doesn’t believe they tanked and I’m not the only damn fan with that belief.
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You have every right to believe this.

Will you feel they weren't tanking if they win 3-5 games?

Vegas didn't have them winning a single game.
 
steelbtexan said:
You have every right to believe this.

Will you feel they weren't tanking if they win 3-5 games?

Vegas didn't have them winning a single game.
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The GM said they were retooling. But like I said after the Patriots game, that it was very clear to me that they were tanking. I also stated, I will not invest my time and energy on any team that tanks. Especially when the season is still young and the division is up for grabs. This division is once again the worst one in the NFL.
 
Texansballer74 said:
The GM is not making winning a priority.
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But you just said they have a chance to win the division this year...

Texansballer74 said:
Those teams are not good period. When have those two teams been consistently good in the past 10 years?
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I thought we were talking about talent this year...

Texansballer74 said:
We’re all done with the 9-7 records but with this team that’s a positive. Especially with all the of nonsense and drama/adversity that they’re going through.
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I'm not sure what point is being made here. Either 9-7 and an early playoff exit is acceptable or it is not.

Texansballer74 said:
Hypothetically speaking: say if you did have a successful season. You trade 4 for let’s say 2 firsts , 1 second, 1 third in 2022. You also get a first and second in 2023 and a few players. Wouldn’t the rebuild be quicker and you’re able to build/add to that successful team.

Why do they have to have a terrible season to rebuild?
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The only issue I have with your hypothetical is the assumption that somewhere they are getting all of these draft picks. I'd rather know that for sure I have my own draft pick in the top 5 versus in the 20's as a playoff team. Because yes, there is a different type of player you get at the top of each round compared to the bottom of each round.

Because if I am picking at the back end of each round as my reward for getting blown out of a WG game, I'm probably trading some of those hypothetical assets to move up to the top of rounds, thus taking away the advantage I have of a stockpile of picks.
 
sandman said:
But you just said they have a chance to win the division this year...



I thought we were talking about talent this year...



I'm not sure what point is being made here. Either 9-7 and an early playoff exit is acceptable or it is not.



The only issue I have with your hypothetical is the assumption that somewhere they are getting all of these draft picks. I'd rather know that for sure I have my own draft pick in the top 5 versus in the 20's as a playoff team. Because yes, there is a different type of player you get at the top of each round compared to the bottom of each round.

Because if I am picking at the back end of each round as my reward for getting blown out of a WG game, I'm probably trading some of those hypothetical assets to move up to the top of rounds, thus taking away the advantage I have of a stockpile of picks.
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And they do. No team in this division is good.
 
sandman said:
But you just said they have a chance to win the division this year...



I thought we were talking about talent this year...



I'm not sure what point is being made here. Either 9-7 and an early playoff exit is acceptable or it is not.



The only issue I have with your hypothetical is the assumption that somewhere they are getting all of these draft picks. I'd rather know that for sure I have my own draft pick in the top 5 versus in the 20's as a playoff team. Because yes, there is a different type of player you get at the top of each round compared to the bottom of each round.

Because if I am picking at the back end of each round as my reward for getting blown out of a WG game, I'm probably trading some of those hypothetical assets to move up to the top of rounds, thus taking away the advantage I have of a stockpile of picks.
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LOL

We should be only talking about talent this yr


Apparently they're only unacceptable if BOB is the HC.

Agreed, but to stockpile picks you will have to use lower rd picks to trade up and therefore you will have less picks. Then you will have some posters complaining about you not having as many/wasting picks like they said after the collins trade, even though you got your guys.
 
sandman said:
So going 9-7, hanging a divisional banner, getting blown out of WC game and drafting in the lower third of the first round is now a good thing.

The culture is definitely changing...
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Again you’re missing my entire point. Why because you’re too busy trying to say it ok to tank. I will say it again: you can build upon that success if you do win the division and make it to the playoffs. Man that would be fn awesome if they were to fight through the adversity from the Watson and Bull O’Brien drama. Going into the off-season you can trade 4 and hopefully get a king’s ransom. Now all you have to do is add on.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Let’s get one thing that’s very important out the way. This is not an expansion team. So let’s not treat it as such.

The season is still fresh/young and the division is up for grabs. Therefore, winning games should be priority period. If it’s not ( something that they’re clearly not on the same page with) important to them, they are doing a disservice to those players, coaches and most importantly the fans. Now if the team loses, let them lose on their on merit. That tanking stuff is for losers and that will not build up a winning culture in the future.

Sandman mentioned the Astros. They lost because they were old and they just wasn’t good. They did not tank so they could build for the future. And guess what every team will not be able to follow the Astros path to success. Some teams like the Browns took at least 10 years. The Jaguars had one successful season after being bad for years. After that successful season, they went back to dumpsterville.
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Expansion teams get to "pluck" players from other teams rosters. Texans plucked players from the street.

Caserio has done a good job finding street players to fill out the roster. And he continues to churn the roster.

Other teams are now raiding our practice squad. He must be signing serviceable players.

Until he gets to draft players this is the best we can hope for. Expecting more is akin to pizzing into the wind.

:coffee:
 
sandman said:
So going 9-7, hanging a divisional banner, getting blown out of WC game and drafting in the lower third of the first round is now a good thing.
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That’s what Miami did. Except they picked 3rd in the first & second round.
 
thunderkyss said:
That’s what Miami did. Except they picked 3rd in the first & second round.
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Because of a trade. Not because of their on field performance. Their own pick was the 18th. Not quite in the 20's but still. And technically they picked 6th in the first round because they traded the 3rd pick to SF and got their 12th pick in a package, which they then in turn traded to Philly in a package to get their 6th pick. Would have been nice to see what the Texans would have done with that pick...
 
sandman said:
Because of a trade. Not because of their on field performance.
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Exactly my point.

We should get better at trading players & draft picks. That would go a long way towards building a winning franchise.

you’re ok with lean years? Trade whatever 1st we get this year for two 1st round picks next year. We’ll have three 1sts in 2023

Trade our 2nd round pick for two 2nds next year. Then we’ll have three 2nds in 2023.

trade Tunsil, Cooks, for 2022 picks. Trade someone Cunningham & $8M for another 3rd.

all the while do everything you can to win & work everyday to get better at it. Never accept losing.
 
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sandman said:
Because of a trade. Not because of their on field performance. Their own pick was the 18th. Not quite in the 20's but still. And technically they picked 6th in the first round because they traded the 3rd pick to SF and got their 12th pick in a package, which they then in turn traded to Philly in a package to get their 6th pick. Would have been nice to see what the Texans would have done with that pick...
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That is almost a cockamanie trade proposal. Heap derision on it.. but it happened.
 
Texansballer74 said:
The GM is not making winning a priority.

Those teams are not good period. When have those two teams been consistently good in the past 10 years?

We’re all done with the 9-7 records but with this team that’s a positive. Especially with all the of nonsense and drama/adversity that they’re going through.

Hypothetically speaking: say if you did have a successful season. You trade 4 for let’s say 2 firsts , 1 second, 1 third in 2022. You also get a first and second in 2023 and a few players. Wouldn’t the rebuild be quicker and you’re able to build/add to that successful team.

Why do they have to have a terrible season to rebuild?
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Yeah but that would be a cockamamie trade proposal...
 
sandman said:
So going 9-7, hanging a divisional banner, getting blown out of WC game and drafting in the lower third of the first round is now a good thing.

The culture is definitely changing...
Click to expand...

Apparently it's only good if BOB's not the guy doing it.
 
thunderkyss said:
Exactly my point.

We should get better at trading players & draft picks. That would go a long way towards building a winning franchise.

you’re ok with lean years? Trade whatever 1st we get this year for two 1st round picks next year. We’ll have three 1sts in 2

Trade our 2nd round pick for two 2nds next year. Then we’ll have three 2nds in 2023.

trade Tunsil, Cooks, for 2022 picks. Trade someone Cunningham & $8M for another 3rd.

all the while do everything you can to win & work everyday to get better at it. Never accept losing.
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Agree with everything you say. Would love to see them leverage the assets/picks they have into more picks.

I was just being OCD and pointing out the #3 wasn't their pick based on records. Hazards of the profession to nitpick minor details.
 
steelbtexan said:
Apparently it's only good if BOB's not the guy doing it.
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I mean, I am good with 9-7 seasons as part of building a successful franchise. Thought we were there with Kubes pulling a string of 8-8 and 9-7 seasons together before a bad year, then getting two good seasons, only for the wheels fell off. OB came in and did the exact same thing. String together a run of 9-7 seasons to have a bad one, then two good ones, only for the wheels to fall off again. It was like a 6-year long Groundhog Day.
 
sandman said:
I mean, I am good with 9-7 seasons as part of building a successful franchise. Thought we were there with Kubes pulling a string of 8-8 and 9-7 seasons together before a bad year, then getting two good seasons, only for the wheels fell off. OB came in and did the exact same thing. String together a run of 9-7 seasons to have a bad one, then two good ones, only for the wheels to fall off again. It was like a 6-year long Groundhog Day.
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Kubiak built a winning team missing a few pieces to go to the next level.

O'Brien was the guy they picked to get to the next level.

O'Brien left with a team trying to get back to where Kubiak had us.
 
thunderkyss said:
Kubiak built a winning team missing a few pieces to go to the next level.

O'Brien was the guy they picked to get to the next level.

O'Brien left with a team trying to get back to where Kubiak had us.
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The only contention I have with this is that Kubiak built that offense on the backs of Schaub and Foster, both of which were essentially done by the time OB took over. And I don't say that in a defense of OB in any way, shape or form. It was fantastically shocking how he destroyed this franchise on his own. I'm saying it wasn't just one bad luck year and they were going to snap back to 2012 form. Schaub was DONE done and Foster ended up having one more year in him. Considering how all-in Kubiak was with Schaub to the detriment of developing any other QB and how his offense rode Foster like a rented mule, I don't see how even he would get that 2014 team back to 2012 levels.

And to keep this about the thread title...

Ironically, Culley started his tenure without a QB as well. Here is hoping that he is able to do something with the groceries that Caserio is buying to leave something solid for the real future HC to follow him.

Edited: spelling
 
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steelbtexan said:
Speaking of Mills where do you think he is today and where do you think his talent level is in relation to the 2021 QB's and where you would have him rated if he was playing like he did last Sunday in the 2022 draft? You know I really value your opinions on QB play. (Bortles not included, we all miss on some guys and that's what makes this fun for me.
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After watching Mills every throw today IMO he comes as advertised. Somewhat accurate. When Kelly protects Mills with predetermined short quick under 10 yard passes Mills is effective and looks good. When Mills tries to go down field > 10 yards his accuracy suffers. He misses on a lot of his throws and his INTS and Sacks go up. 2 INTs today with an additional 2 that should've been. Look for Kelly to continue to protect Mills with more quick short predetermined passes and less passes over 10 yards. When Mills goes mid range or deep it's a hold your breath and cringe moment and hope for the best.
 
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Earl34 said:
What was his objective? Tell Cal they are retooling not rebuilding?
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I think it was to try to find 5 guys in the draft and FA that can be part of the future, including possibly his QB. W/L's dont really matter this yr. This is why I said from the beginning this is a 3-5 win team. They've got some guys that can play, but no stars that you need to be one of the better teams in the NFL.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Yes on the making the roster competitive part.
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The roster wasn't competitive last yr (4-12) and they didn't have their 1st/2nd rd picks and then there's the Derrick situation, did you really think they were going to win more than 4 games against this schedule with a rookie QB that didn't have many starts in college? I sure didn't expect there to be more wins this yr than last yr.
 
As far as grading Caserio, still too early for a final grade. But so far, I have been less than impressed. Hopefully things start to improve.

As far as the team being competitive, yes, in very short spurts. In a couple games this season. Against Buffalo, Indy, and even Carolina, I didn't see them as being competitive. In those three games they scored a combined total of 12 points while giving up 95 points. That's...not good.

It's going to be interesting to see if they can show some resiliency, some fight and team unity. In the second half today it appeared the team was just going through the motions, minus a few individuals.
 
Caserio FUBARS Extraordinaire:

1/7 - Texans hire Nick Caserio.
Jan thru Apr Caserio refuses to take calls from any teams about Deshaun Watson
1/27 - Caserio hires David Culley first opening, last hire. Caserio's first hire is the worst HC hire in 2021.
2/12 - Texans release JJ Watt
3/2 - Resigns David Johnson to a $6MM contract

3/11 - Caserio restructures Cooks contract. borrows $2.5MM from 2022, 2023, 2024 ($7.5MM). Restructure also cancels last year of contract. Cooks contract now expires after 2022 season.

3/20 -Caserio restructures Tunsil contract. By borrowing $10MM from future caps ($5MM 2022; $5MM 2023)

3/22 - Caserio trades for Shaq Lawson restructures contract, then trades Lawson to Jets, creates $1.8MM in Dead Cap.

3/23 - Caserio trades for Ryan Izzo. 8/31 Caserio cuts Izzo.
Caserio trades for Ryan Finley. 5/24 - Caserio cuts Finley

3/24 - Caserio restructures Mercilus contract. 10/19 - Caserio cuts Mercilus creating $7MM dead cap in 2022

3/30 - Caserio restructures Cunningham 4 year contract.Borrows $5.6MM from 2022, 2023, 2024. Likely cut/traded before 2022 season.

4/29 - NFL Draft. Caserio uses (8) 2021 draft picks and (2) 2022 draft picks to draft (5) players.

7/26 - Caserio trades for Anthony Miller. 10/6 - Caserio cuts Miller

9/9 - Caserio trades Roby to Saints, restructuring contract to eat $8.9MM in salary ($4.8MM in 2022). Value of 2nd rd pick, only gets a 3rd rd pick.

Nick Caserio has created over $37MM in 2021 dead cap money. As a result Caserio had to restructure (5) contracts to create over $35MM in order to sign a bunch of over 30 year olds to 1 year contracts in order to fill the roster.

Caserio has already created over $15MM in dead cap in 2022. Additionally reduced the 2022 salary cap by another $10MM+ from restructuring. 2022 dead cap money needed to trade Watson $16MM, to trade/cut Cunningham $12MM. $15MM + $10MM + $26MM = Caserio responsible for $51MM in reduction of 2022 salary cap.

Texans only have 27 players under contract in 2022, that's 10 players less than the avg team.

This is a mess, a clown show, a dumpster fire, absence of intelligent thought, lacking common sense and logic. An exercise in buffoonery, Tom Foolery, menopause brain, lacking in basic skills in accounting and economics.

STAY TUNED.......DEVELOPING.......
 
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thunderkyss said:
That’s speculation. Well, let me put it this way. Urban Myer had every reason to believe he would coach the length of his contract outside of health issues.
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Urban Meyer is still a all time top 3 college coach. That hasn't changed. He may have stubbed his toe but he is 1 - 5. Jimmy Johnson was 1 - 15 his first year with Troy Aikman. So if Urban wins 1 more game he is ahead of Johnson's schedule. As we all know it didn't take Johnson 2 or 3 years to take out the trash and get his house in order. Johnson did it rickytic and had his house squared away after year one.
 
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