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Nick Caserio - New GM

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Believe it or not, this post has changed my opinion.

How many Foxboro scouts have been here over the last 3 yrs? I dont know what went wrong, but they've got to be much better than what's been going on over the last 3 yrs or this franchise is going to be so screwed.
The thing is we have no real way to gauge anybody in or from Patriots personnel dept because of Belichick. He has always been the single final decisionmaker there, and he would regularly flip the script at the last minute basically tossing aside years of personnel work and going with his gut. Like choosing N’Keal Harry over scouting dept recommendations of AJ Brown/Deebo Samuel. And like in 2020 when the plan going into the draft was to add much needed offensive help with early picks, but BB comes in that day and goes defense, defense, defense. That’s why so many Pats scouts get frustrated and beg out of there.

One thing we’ve seen from Caserio early on is he makes a lot of decisions in deference to the coaching staff… maybe to a fault. Many free agents and the top three draft choices had direct connections to one or more coaches here. That’s good in that a GM is supposed to serve the coaches, but might be bad if he overrules himself and his personnel people too often because of it. It’s a tricky balancing act. We’ll see in a few of years generally where Nick ends up on that spectrum. After he makes his first HC hire unencumbered by Cally-Boy and his cohort.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
The thing is we have no real way to gauge anybody in or from Patriots personnel dept because of Belichick.
There has been a long list of Belichick assistants who have been hired as GMs and HCs throughout the league, starting with the can't miss Scott Pioli. History as gauge they've been less than successful. Based on their lack of success is reason enough not to hire them. Most have been abject failures. Belichick personnel people have shown they are better clerks than they are managers or better coordinators than they are HCs. They do know how to fill out a scouting report exactly as Belichick has trained and use the vocabulary and lingo that is expected. The guy has a bubble butt and thick ankles. The lone exception is to sign his starting QB if you can. :)
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
There has been a long list of Belichick assistants who have been hired as GMs and HCs throughout the league, starting with the can't miss Scott Pioli. History as gauge they've been less than successful. Based on their lack of success is reason enough not to hire them. Most have been abject failures. Belichick personnel people have shown they are better clerks than they are managers or better coordinators than they are HCs. They do know how to fill out a scouting report exactly as Belichick has trained and use the vocabulary and lingo that is expected. The guy has a bubble butt and thick ankles. The lone exception is to sign his starting QB if you can. :)
Do you like the job the BB assistants are doing in Tennessee?

Dimitroff made a SB.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Have you heard that they're leaving? Because that's the best news a Texans fan could possibly hear.
Unfortunately I'm not hearing any grumblings about Momma McNair dumping Cally-Boy, but I do know there are people with skin in the game as related to the Texans who are angling to give Caserio enough perspective on Jackerby for him to hopefully one day get it and approach Cally-Boy about a divorce. It would be a big surprise, because Cal/Hannah are at least as bamboozled by Jackerby as Bob was by Slick Rick.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Where did they get their most experience.

Yet they kept adding jewelry.
Dimitroff had been with several organizations for a dozen year before he joined the Pats.
There aren't too many things you can teach an old dog.

As for the Pats drafts of the last decade, the concensus (including hindsight) is that they were below average, if not downright bad.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I was a major advocate of not only having Eliot Wolf as the Texans next GM but I also wanted him to convince Alonzo Highsmith to join him.

To be quite honest I didn’t know a whole lot about Caserio until the Patriots were going to slap the Texans with tampering charges. I familiarized myself with Caserio and was completely indifferent b/c I had my heart set on the Texans bringing in Wolf…..and Highsmith.

From experience, it doesn’t have much to do with the family you came from or the coaching/organization tree that spawned you b/c everyone eventually has to stand on their own two feet to show everyone who they are as an individual. Failures from the family or organization usually created their own situation…..maybe b/c they believed their own press clippings far too much.

That aside…..Caserio is a rookie GM who inherited the biggest pile of shite of an organization that I can recall in quite some time. Caserio must’ve woke up every morning wondering if he was in a 3 Stooges pie throwing skit only to find out, they were tossing shite pies…..bad contracts, stupid extensions, bad players, horribly inept owners, etc….the pies just kept coming. So, what he’s done to rectify this shite-show is admirable. 2021 was a toss-away or mulligan season. Not that this team doesn’t want to win but they fielded a team full of players who had hopes of extending their playing days……not b/c this was the team he wanted on the field but b/c this was the team they could afford to put on the field. Sure, there’s been a few bad moves and pickups but damm, it wasn’t like Saban in Alabama where he had the choice of top HS talent at a bargain basement recruiting effort.

Thank goodness that none of Caserio’s moves hamstrung the Texans future…..since most were gambles with late round picks that could be regained by the deadline or next off-season. I like the risk and gambles he took to erase what happened in the past with this organization but I’ll save my real judgements on his days as Texans GM until after the 2023 season b/c that would be a reasonable expectation for the ****-show he inherited. No thanks to the McNair’s, Casserly, Smith, and O’Brien.
 
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Texian

Hall of Fame
I was a major advocate of not only having Eliot Wolf as the Texans next GM but I also wanted him to convince Alonzo Highsmith to join him.

To be quite honest I didn’t know a whole lot about Caserio until the Patriots were going to slap the Texans with tampering charges. I familiarized myself with Caserio and was completely indifferent b/c I had my heart set on the Texans bringing in Wolf…..and Highsmith.

From experience, it doesn’t have much to do with the family you came from or the coaching/organization tree that spawned you b/c everyone eventually has to stand on their own two feet to show everyone who they are as an individual. Failures from the family or organization usually created their own situation…..maybe b/c they believed their own press clippings far too much.

That aside…..Caserio is a rookie GM who inherited the biggest pile of shite of an organization that I can recall in quite some time. Caserio must’ve woke up every morning wondering if he was in a 3 Stooges pie throwing skit only to find out, they were tossing shite pies…..bad contracts, stupid extensions, bad players, horribly inept owners, etc….the pies just kept coming. So, what he’s done to rectify this shite-show is admirable. 2021 was a toss-away or mulligan season. Not that this team doesn’t want to win but they fielded a team full of players who had hopes of extending their playing days……not b/c this was the team he wanted on the field but b/c this was the team they could afford to put on the field. Sure, there’s been a few bad moves and pickups but damm, it wasn’t like Saban in Alabama where he had the choice of top HS talent at a bargain basement recruiting effort.

Thank goodness that none of Caserio’s moves hamstrung the Texans future…..since most were gambles with late round picks that could be regained by the deadline or next off-season. I like the risk and gambles he took to erase what happened in the past with this organization but I’ll save my real judgements on his days as Texans GM until after the 2023 season b/c that would be a reasonable expectation for the ****-show he inherited. No thanks to the McNair’s, Casserly, Smith, and O’Brien.
Caserio wakes up every morning smiling knowing he has a guaranteed $30MM in the bank.

The Texans had the first HC opening and were the last to fill. Caserio's first decision, David Culley.

One of the first things Caserio did as Texans GM was to create $25MM in DEAD MONEY.

The result of taking a hatchet to the roster without thinking it through created not having enough money to fill out the 2021 roster.

In order to create enough money (restructuring every contract that could be restructured) Caserio had to borrow over $30MM from 2022 and 2023 to sign enough players to complete the 2021 roster.

He compounded the money mismanagement by signing players like David Johnson to $5MM contract.

In order to sign enough players, Caserio had to sign players at the end of their careers (looking for another NFL paycheck) to 1 and 2 year contracts to have enough money for a 53 man roster.

In essence he shuffled the chairs on the Titanic and it cost him $55MM to do it. $25MM in dead money and $30MM in restructuring.

In the process of all of this Caserio used draft picks to trade for four players that were cut. Players who would've been cut by the previous teams.

He started the draft with 8 picks, used an additional 2 picks from 2022 to draft 5 players.

As a result of Caserio's 2021 decisions he has also created $8MM in Dead Money in 2022. The 2022 salary cap is also $12MM less from 2021 restructuring. When you factor in additional dead money needed to trade Watson, cut Cunningham and Mercilus that's another $36MM subtracted from 2022 cap.

The 2022 salary cap begins with $56MM less than the full amount because of Caserio decisions.

The 2022 roster begins with 25 signed players. The projected Texans salary cap space to begin 2022 is $12MM. That's $12MM to sign 28 players to fill a 53 man roster.

Now I ask you, what makes you think that Caserio will be any different in 2022 than he was in 2021 when Nick has already said they plan to stay the course and keep doing what they have been doing?

IMO I think you can expect more of the same. Nick being Nick. Filling the 2022 roster will be more difficult and more expensive than the 2021 roster.
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Caserio wakes up every morning smiling knowing he has a guaranteed $30MM in the bank.

One of the first things Caserio did as Texans GM was to create $25MM in DEAD MONEY.

The result of taking a hatchet to the roster without thinking it through created not having enough money to fill out the 2021 roster.

In order to create enough money (restructuring every contract that could be restructured) Caserio had to borrow over $30MM from 2022 and 2023 to sign enough players to complete the 2021 roster.

He compounded the money mismanagement by signing players like David Johnson to $5MM contract.

In order to sign enough players, Caserio had to sign players at the end of their careers (looking for another NFL paycheck) to 1 and 2 year contracts to have enough money for a 53 man roster.

In essence he shuffled the chairs on the Titanic and it cost him $55MM to do it. $25MM in dead money and $30MM in restructuring.

In the process of all of this Caserio used draft picks to trade for four players that were cut. Players who would've been cut by the previous teams.

He started the draft with 8 picks, used an additional 2 picks from 2022 to draft 5 players.

As a result of Caserio's 2021 decisions he has also created $8MM in Dead Money in 2022. The 2022 salary cap is also less $12MM from 2021 restructuring. When you factor in additional dead money needed to trade Watson and cut Cunningham and Mercilus that's another $36MM subtracted from 2022 cap.

The 2022 salary cap begins with $56MM less than the full amount because of Caserio decisions.

The 2022 roster begins with 25 signed players. The projected Texans salary cap space to begin 2022 is $12MM. That's $12MM to sign 28 players to fill a 53 man roster.

Now I ask you, what makes you think that Caserio will be any different in 2022 than he was in 2021 when Nick has said they plan to stay the course and keep doing what they have been doing?

IMO I think you can expect more of the same. Nick being Nick. Filling the 2022 roster will be more difficult and more expensive than the 2021 roster.
Why do you care?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Caserio wakes up every morning smiling knowing he has a guaranteed $30MM in the bank.

One of the first things Caserio did as Texans GM was to create $25MM in DEAD MONEY.

The result of taking a hatchet to the roster without thinking it through created not having enough money to fill out the 2021 roster.

In order to create enough money (restructuring every contract that could be restructured) Caserio had to borrow over $30MM from 2022 and 2023 to sign enough players to complete the 2021 roster.

He compounded the money mismanagement by signing players like David Johnson to $5MM contract.

In order to sign enough players, Caserio had to sign players at the end of their careers (looking for another NFL paycheck) to 1 and 2 year contracts to have enough money for a 53 man roster.

In essence he shuffled the chairs on the Titanic and it cost him $55MM to do it. $25MM in dead money and $30MM in restructuring.

In the process of all of this Caserio used draft picks to trade for four players that were cut. Players who would've been cut by the previous teams.

He started the draft with 8 picks, used an additional 2 picks from 2022 to draft 5 players.

As a result of Caserio's 2021 decisions he has also created $8MM in Dead Money in 2022. The 2022 salary cap is also less $12MM from 2021 restructuring. When you factor in additional dead money needed to trade Watson and cut Cunningham and Mercilus that's another $36MM subtracted from 2022 cap.

The 2022 salary cap begins with $56MM less than the full amount because of Caserio decisions.

The 2022 roster begins with 25 signed players. The projected Texans salary cap space to begin 2022 is $12MM. That's $12MM to sign 28 players to fill a 53 man roster.

Now I ask you, what makes you think that Caserio will be any different in 2022 than he was in 2021 when Nick has said they plan to stay the course and keep doing what they have been doing?

IMO I think you can expect more of the same. Nick being Nick. Filling the 2022 roster will be more difficult and more expensive than the 2021 roster.
Will the cap be going up?

How much cap space will be created by trading Derrick?


Will they really need the cap space next yr?

The team will be younger next year, isn't that what you want?
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I really don’t understand why you keep throwing this out trying to support your argument.

If they don’t need it next year, they can roll it over.
It is my understanding that you have to spend it at some point. So while you can roll it over you still eventually have to spend it.

People around here talk in too many hypotheticals. “If this then if this then that then this” to support arguments.

None of us know what the plan is. There are a lot of variables yet to play out. All we can do is wait until 2-3 years pass and look at the results.

It is what it is.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Will the cap be going up?

How much cap space will be created by trading Derrick?


Will they really need the cap space next yr?

The team will be younger next year, isn't that what you want?
Yes the cap will be going up. That is why the cap numbers used reflect the expected increase in the 2022 salary cap. 2021 is $182MM and the projected 2022 salary cap number is will increase to $208MM.

Trading Derrick will create $16.2 in Dead Money in 2022.

Yes they will really need all the cap space, then some and a whole lot more.

Will the team really be that much younger if the only players Caserio can afford is players at the end of their careers?

2021 Cap Totals
����
CAP TYPEBASE SALARY
2021 NFL Salary Cap$182,500,000
2020 Rollover Cap$9,189,845
Adjustment$2,778,914
Adjusted Salary Cap$194,468,759


2022 Cap Totals
����
CAP TYPEBASE SALARY
2022 NFL Salary Cap$208,200,000
2021 Rollover Cap$8,304,856
Adjustment$0
Adjusted Salary Cap$216,504,856


2022
Top 51 Contracts -(ONLY 25 signed)$117,342,081$22,272,736$6,205,870-$50,000$11,430,833$100,000$160,901,520
Dead Money-$4,158,395---$3,800,000-$7,958,395
Total (All)$117,342,081$26,431,131$6,205,870-$50,000$15,230,833$100,000$168,859,915
Total (w/Top 51)$117,342,081$26,431,131$6,205,870-$50,000$15,230,833$100,000$168,859,915
Cap Space (w/All)$47,644,941
Cap Space (w/Top 51)$47,644,941
Less DW4 trade: -$16.5MM
Cut Cunningham: -$12MM
Cut Mercilus: -$7MM

2022 Cap Space: $12MM
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yes the cap will be going up. That is why the cap numbers used reflect the expected increase in the 2022 salary cap. 2021 is $182MM and the projected 2022 salary cap number is will increase to $208MM.

Trading Derrick will create $16.2 in Dead Money in 2022.

Yes they will really need all the cap space, then some and a whole lot more.

Will the team really be that much younger if the only players Caserio can afford is players at the end of their careers?

2021 Cap Totals
����
CAP TYPEBASE SALARY
2021 NFL Salary Cap$182,500,000
2020 Rollover Cap$9,189,845
Adjustment$2,778,914
Adjusted Salary Cap$194,468,759
2022 Cap Totals




����
CAP TYPEBASE SALARY
2022 NFL Salary Cap$208,200,000
2021 Rollover Cap$8,304,856
Adjustment$0
Adjusted Salary Cap$216,504,856




2022
Top 51 Contracts -(ONLY 25 signed)$117,342,081$22,272,736$6,205,870-$50,000$11,430,833$100,000$160,901,520
Dead Money-$4,158,395---$3,800,000-$7,958,395
Total (All)$117,342,081$26,431,131$6,205,870-$50,000$15,230,833$100,000$168,859,915
Total (w/Top 51)$117,342,081$26,431,131$6,205,870-$50,000$15,230,833$100,000$168,859,915
Cap Space (w/All)$47,644,941
Cap Space (w/Top 51)$47,644,941
Less DW4 trade: -$16.5MM



Cut Cunningham: -$12MM
Cut Mercilus: -$7MM

2022 Cap Space: $12MM
Since they aren't going to win next yr and probably (Depending on what they get from trading Derrick) this post doesn't really matter. Truth is, the Texans will be fielding a team next yr and the team will probably suck.

How many stars that Caserio adds through the draft (And hopefully the Derrick trade, unless you're like me and want to keep a sexual predator off the streets.) and FA over the next 3 yrs will determine whether the franchise will be contenders or also rans for the next decade. So far the Mills pick is very promising and I'm really high on Collins. I know you didn't like trading up for Collins, but I really liked him after the Sr. Bowl and I'm still glad Caserio traded up to get him.

Speaking of Mills where do you think he is today and where do you think his talent level is in relation to the 2021 QB's and where you would have him rated if he was playing like he did last Sunday in the 2022 draft? You know I really value your opinions on QB play. (Bortles not included, we all miss on some guys and that's what makes this fun for me.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I’m actually looking forward to what Caserio can do with the 2022 NFL Draft. Why? I think he had an amazing 2021 draft with limited resources.

Mills and Collins….will continue to progress this season and it isn’t looking to bad at the moment. They will both be better come next season.

Jordan and Wallow…..they’re also moving along and developing. I think both players will compete for starting reps next season.

And Lopez…..he looks as though he can handle the job and it isn’t too big for him. He will be a better player and asset come next season.

Caserio has a very good chance at going 5 for 5 with his first draft. All 5 could be solid contributing pieces to the Texans for the next several years.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
I’m actually looking forward to what Caserio can do with the 2022 NFL Draft. Why? I think he had an amazing 2021 draft with limited resources.

Mills and Collins….will continue to progress this season and it isn’t looking to bad at the moment. They will both be better come next season.

Jordan and Wallow…..they’re also moving along and developing. I think both players will compete for starting reps next season.

And Lopez…..he looks as though he can handle the job and it isn’t too big for him. He will be a better player and asset come next season.

Caserio has a very good chance at going 5 for 5 with his first draft. All 5 could be solid contributing pieces to the Texans for the next several years.
How do you figure that Jordan is moving along and developing when he hasn't dressed for a game one single time so far?

Collins hasn't played much football in 2 years now. Not saying he can't be better than what they've got out there now, but actually being on the field is a part of this game.

Wallow has played more than 2 defensive snaps in a game once (9 against Buffalo). Don't know how you think he's moving along and developing.

I do think Lopez can turn into something decent, but even he has a long way to go still.

I get being optimistic, but man, at least base it on some reality.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yep you need a bigger carpet and bigger broom for all the crap you have been sweeping under the rug.
That's the bottom line and the only numbers that really matter.

We both want the same thing, I believe that after Carr a great LT is necessary and a guy like Cooks is there to teach a guy like Collins the ropes. Your vet leaders usually get paid good money. You will get what you want over the next couple of yrs.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans

Another I’m the smartest man in the room.
I liked the interview. I think it lends itself to NC using the 2021 season as an 18 week vetting process for coaches and players. The challenge of fixing what’s wrong with this team wasn’t going to happen in one off-season and/or before the 2021 NFL Trade Deadline. Ugly losses and ugly wins would be the expected in this type of season…..but a dominant win would be the low hanging fruit and should be enjoyed versus expecting a bountiful of low hanging fruit.

I’m going to enjoy watching the chess game involved with completely rebuilding the Texans from 2021 to 2023. Hopefully Caserio will have played his cards in a manner that has us fans really anticipating the 2024 season. Crane essentially did the same thing with the Astros and plenty of fans hated what he was doing and vowed to disown the Astros b/c of the process. Those same fans did make their way back (onto the bandwagon) when the teams process built a winner and stocked his MiLB system with future MLB stars. For me…..I was really excited about Crane taking over b/c he was up front about how the organization was going to be rebuilt from the bottom up.

Me, I’ve got the patience to watch and enjoy the process….and contrary to other opinions, I think Caserio had a nice draft considering the hole he was trying to work out of……enough so that I’m looking forward to the next trades and moves to set the team up for the 2022 NFL Draft.
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I liked the interview. I think it lends itself to NC using the 2021 season as an 18 week vetting process for coaches and players. The challenge of fixing what’s wrong with this team wasn’t going to happen in one off-season and/or before the 2021 NFL Trade Deadline. Ugly losses and ugly wins would be the expected in this type of season…..but a dominant win would be the low hanging fruit and should be enjoyed versus expecting a bountiful of low hanging fruit.

I’m going to enjoy watching the chess game involved with completely rebuilding the Texans from 2021 to 2023. Hopefully Caserio has played his cards in a manner that has us fans really anticipating the 2024 season. Crane essentially did the same thing with the Astros and plenty of fans hated what he was doing and vowed to disown the Astros b/c of the process. Those same fans did make their way back (onto the bandwagon) when the teams process built a winner and stocked his MiLB system with future MLB stars. For me…..I was really excited about Crane taking over b/c he was up front about how the organization was going to be rebuilt from the bottom up.

Me, I’ve got the patience to watch and enjoy the process….and contrary to other opinions, I think Caserio had a nice draft considering the hole he was trying to work out of……enough so that I’m looking forward to the next trades and moves to set the team up for the 2022 NFL Draft.
I don’t have any issues with who he drafted this season. He did a good job in that department. My issue with him is they went into this season with a losers mentality. This dropping and adding players every week is starting to get old to me.

The process should be to win games, that way you can win back the fan base as well as quickly get over the dreadful off season. You also have to be on the same page with your staff. Clearly they’re not because these coaches and players wants to win.

I’m this video he’s once again trying to explain this and that. But on the field of play none of that stuff is manufacturing itself. Why because he’s tanking. Of course you’re going to evaluate their play every week. But the main freaking goal should be to win games.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Just got done reading an interesting article on the ESPN site regarding the Gruden debacle. In the article, it mentioned the mess Reggie McKenzie inherited when he took over the Raiders in 2012. One of the things mentioned was him eating 77M dollars in Dead Money from 2012 thru 2013 due to poor decisions by Al Davis and Hue Jackson. Cap space issues and lack of draft picks was at the root of their downfall. It didn’t happen over night but McKenzie did get them back to almost being respectable by 2015 with a 7-9 record but the team did turn the corner in 2016 when they finished with a 12-4 record. It took him 5 years.

As for the Texans, I think Caserio can get this job done a bit quicker. One reason, he’s not looking down the barrel of eating 77M dollars in Dead Money. He has a few solid trade chips to gain additional top, mid, and late picks in both the 2022 and 2023 NFL Drafts. He’s going to have operational Cap Space to sign solid FA’s when the time is right. His biggest job is going to be turning the majority of his picks into viable assets. I’m seeing the 2024 season as the one Caserio will see as his pay-off season.
 
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vtech9

Veteran
My issue with him is they went into this season with a losers mentality. This dropping and adding players every week is starting to get old to me.
To me, it looks like he is always trying to improve the team, and find the right fits for the team. If a player looks like he isn't fitting in, why keep him? If there is a chance to move that player via trade, or by cutting him, why not do so? By opening up that roster spot, it gives you the ability to evaluate another player. Like NC said, it's a process. They are still trying to win, while also trying to follow the process. I don't expect this team to be fixed in one season, but IMO, NC is trying to fix it as fast as he can.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
I don’t have any issues with who he drafted this season. He did a good job in that department. My issue with him is they went into this season with a losers mentality. This dropping and adding players every week is starting to get old to me.

The process should be to win games, that way you can win back the fan base as well as quickly get over the dreadful off season. You also have to be on the same page with your staff. Clearly they’re not because these coaches and players wants to win.

I’m this video he’s once again trying to explain this and that. But on the field of play none of that stuff is manufacturing itself. Why because he’s tanking. Of course you’re going to evaluate their play every week. But the main freaking goal should be to win games.
Is the concept of a rebuild lost on you? See: Astros having three bad years before becoming WS champs

Or the concept that trying to remain relevant generates mediocrity? See: Rockets 14 straight winning seasons and 11 playoff appearances with nothing to show for it.

Because the Texans were the Rockets. 7 winning seasons in 9 years. Playoffs in 6 of those 9 years. And they had NOTHING to show for it.

In fact, the general theme of this entire MB has been that the Texans have won, but they haven't won enough. Then OB leaves this franchise in disarray.

Sometimes you gotta tear things down.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Is the concept of a rebuild lost on you? See: Astros having three bad years before becoming WS champs

Or the concept that trying to remain relevant generates mediocrity? See: Rockets 14 straight winning seasons and 11 playoff appearances with nothing to show for it.

Because the Texans were the Rockets. 7 winning seasons in 9 years. Playoffs in 6 of those 9 years. And they had NOTHING to show for it.

In fact, the general theme of this entire MB has been that the Texans have won, but they haven't won enough. Then OB leaves this franchise in disarray.

Sometimes you gotta tear things down.
With Cal-Easterby-Caserio running the show the opposite of the Rockets history may now be in store for the Texans, nine years with 7 losing seasons.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Is the concept of a rebuild lost on you?
This division might be won with 8-9 wins. What can be accomplished in a 5 win season that can't be accomplished inn 8 win season.

If it's a matter of beating teams that beat themselves, or look past the Texans, it doesn't affect the rebuild at all.

If we're looking at the Patriots game as one we lost because we "took our foot of the gas" how does that help?

If we're playing for draft picks & not for players playing well, or coaches coaching well, it's all for not. Good players with bad coaches get exposed in the divisional round & won't get past it.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
This division might be won with 8-9 wins. What can be accomplished in a 5 win season that can't be accomplished inn 8 win season.

If it's a matter of beating teams that beat themselves, or look past the Texans, it doesn't affect the rebuild at all.

If we're looking at the Patriots game as one we lost because we "took our foot of the gas" how does that help?

If we're playing for draft picks & not for players playing well, or coaches coaching well, it's all for not. Good players with bad coaches get exposed in the divisional round & won't get past it.
I guess we differ in our assessment that this team is capable of winning 8 games this season.

I could flip the script and ask how does winning 8 games/division and getting into the playoffs help with the needed rebuild? Lower draft picks, half of the roster is older and going to be flipped so no sustainability, the risk of keeping players/contracts that they really shouldn't in order to try and maintain the legendary "9-7" Texans record. Mediocrity begets mediocrity. That has been the drum we have beat on this MB for years. Why do want to move forward with this same mindset?

Is the mediocrity of winning 8 games this year and hoisting a divisional banner (remember even we mock the Texans for celebrating those) worth the ability to start over and create an entirely new culture of winning? I'm not saying you personally, but I've been on TT since 2007 and the entire theme of the last 14 years has been that 9-7 and WC games are not good enough. And yet, this is what you are advocating for.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I guess we differ in our assessment that this team is capable of winning 8 games this season.
I don't think the team is capable of winning 8 games. I think they're capable of winning 5 or 6. The extra games would be won on the flukes that happen every year.

Jacksonville, New England, Miami, NYJets, Jacksonville

That's 5 games against teams we knew were going to be bad coming into the season.

Indianapolis is 1-4 right now. Tennessee is 3-2 & having issues. San Francisco & Seattle are teetering

That's 11 games that we might not be the worst team on the field at the time of the game.

Bottom line, to me I want to know my coaches can coach. If we're losing every game because we're "developing" one out of 53 players, it makes it kind of hard to evaluate my coaches.

I could flip the script and ask how does winning 8 games/division and getting into the playoffs help with the needed rebuild?
Because players don't win on their own. Coaches have to be able to coach above the talent they have to work with.

Lower draft picks, half of the roster is older and going to be flipped so no sustainability, the risk of keeping players/contracts that they really shouldn't in order to try and maintain the legendary "9-7" Texans record. Mediocrity begets mediocrity.
All the winning teams are the ones with the lower draft picks. All the losing teams are the ones with the higher draft picks... I think we're overselling draft position. Granted, the winning teams will pick higher every now & again. But not because they "earned" the slot.

The goal is not to maintain 9-7. You want to talk about doing what we've been doing & doing more of the same... we've had the number 1 overall pick three times. We've picked in the top 15 too many times.

I'm talking about the coaches winning that Carolina & New England game by making good decisions & coaching players not to shoot themselves in the foot.

Is the mediocrity of winning 8 games this year and hoisting a divisional banner (remember even we mock the Texans for celebrating those) worth the ability to start over and create an entirely new culture of winning? I
This is what I'm not following. How do you create a culture of winning without winning?

Whatever we're going to do after winning 3 games should be the same thing we should do after winning 8 games. Cut bad players, move on from bad contracts, build around a core.

KGH, Kirksey, Omenihu, Lopez, Reid, Mitchell, Grennard, Blacklock... that's a good core to add two or four draft picks to.

Cooks, Conley, Brown, Akins, Heck, Tunsil... that's a good core to build around as well. You can trade Cooks & Tunsil, but then you're creating holes... but whatever. If that's what you think you need to do to build the team you want, do it whether you win 3 games or 8.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
@thunderkyss don't want to quote all of that in my responses.

1. They are not evaluating Culley. He was brought in for one reason. No one - including Culley - thinks he is the long term HC option for this team, much less that he will see out his entire 5 year contract.

2. The Texans play on the field earned two #1 picks, not three. It is factually correct but a disingenuous argument for their continued failures that they have had three #1 picks.

3. Expansion franchises naturally struggle for a few years and pick up high draft picks along the way. In the last 15 drafts there have been more picks in the 20's (8, counting 2017/2020 picks that were traded) than there have been at 15 and higher (6, counting 2018/2021 picks that were traded). If we only count those who were actually drafted, there has only been two top 10 picks in the last 15 years (ironically, at #1 and #10).

4. You cannot create a culture of winning without the talent needed to win. They've spent 4 of the last 5 1st round picks on a QB that doesn't want to play here anymore and an LT that is on IR and considered trade bait. Go back for the last decade and point out 2nd round picks that made an impact on this team? You can't. Same with 3rd round with a few exceptions for Brooks, Fido and Reid. The foundation of talent for this team has been decent hits on first rounders and back of draft guys/free agents that were productive for a few years. Talent selection, development and management has been abysmal for this team.

You seem to have the perspective that this team as constructed should be able to win but your biggest argument for that is not that they are a good team, but rather other teams in the division also suck. I have the perspective that a few lean years now creates a greater opportunity to build something better in the long term. We can agree to disagree.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You cannot create a culture of winning without the talent needed to win.
Sure you can because there's a difference between wanting to win & expecting to. Where i think you're getting it twisted is winning big...yeah you definitely need talent to do that & time/decision making are the biggest factors there, not draft slot. Creating a culture where guys are engaged every week & expect to win.......you can definitely do that without talent b/c its more about attitude. I could argue that that alone is worth a few wins to every team every year. & i have no doubt that NC/DC & the type of guys they've brought in expect to win every week despite their obvious talent deficiencies. As it is tho, all but 1 game this year they've been in late & had a chance to win......& even that particular game, they hung in longer than any of us thought they would. If they'd been able to do anything offensively, they're probably in that game late too. That's all you can ask really.........especially from this team.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
1. They are not evaluating Culley. He was brought in for one reason. No one - including Culley - thinks he is the long term HC option for this team, much less that he will see out his entire 5 year contract.
That’s speculation. Well, let me put it this way. Urban Myer had every reason to believe he would coach the length of his contract outside of health issues.

I have to imagine Culley is going to do everything he can to coach at least five years, more for Myles Smith, Tim Kelly, Pep Hamilton, etc…


The Texans play on the field earned two #1 picks, not three. It is factually correct but a disingenuous argument for their continued failures that they have had three #1 picks.
The point is those three picks did not shoot this team into relevance.


If we only count those who were actually drafted, there has only been two top 10 picks in the last 15 years (ironically, at #1 and #10).
good point I concede

You cannot create a culture of winning without the talent needed to win.
agree. I just don’t think losing & earning the higher pick is essential to acquiring that talent.


I have the perspective that a few lean years now creates a greater opportunity to build something better in the long term.
Is it the number of draft picks or the value? Are you wanting to bring in 30 draft picks & UDFAs or are you thinking more like 12?

I’m thinking we win the games that are winnable, trade Cooks, trade Tunsil, trade whoever else other than your core. Use those picks to bring in 12 guys through the draft. Half a dozen UDFAs, 12 FAs & build a 2022 roster.

We might win only 5 games. & that’s fine if that’s all we can win. But if the Browns, Carolina, New England, & Indy games go your way, even better.

Not doing everything within your control to win is the definition of mediocrity to me.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
Sure you can because there's a difference between wanting to win & expecting to. Where i think you're getting it twisted is winning big...yeah you definitely need talent to do that & time/decision making are the biggest factors there, not draft slot. Creating a culture where guys are engaged every week & expect to win.......you can definitely do that without talent b/c its more about attitude. I could argue that that alone is worth a few wins to every team every year. & i have no doubt that NC/DC & the type of guys they've brought in expect to win every week despite their obvious talent deficiencies. As it is tho, all but 1 game this year they've been in late & had a chance to win......& even that particular game, they hung in longer than any of us thought they would. If they'd been able to do anything offensively, they're probably in that game late too. That's all you can ask really.........especially from this team.
Not in disagreement with any of this.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
That’s speculation. Well, let me put it this way. Urban Myer had every reason to believe he would coach the length of his contract outside of health issues.

I have to imagine Culley is going to do everything he can to coach at least five years, more for Myles Smith, Tim Kelly, Pep Hamilton, etc…



The point is those three picks did not shoot this team into relevance.




good point I concede



agree. I just don’t think losing & earning the higher pick is essential to acquiring that talent.




Is it the number of draft picks or the value? Are you wanting to bring in 30 draft picks & UDFAs or are you thinking more like 12?

I’m thinking we win the games that are winnable, trade Cooks, trade Tunsil, trade whoever else other than your core. Use those picks to bring in 12 guys through the draft. Half a dozen UDFAs, 12 FAs & build a 2022 roster.

We might win only 5 games. & that’s fine if that’s all we can win. But if the Browns, Carolina, New England, & Indy games go your way, even better.

Not doing everything within your control to win is the definition of mediocrity to me.
I think we are far more aligned that we think. Maybe other than Culley. I can't imagine he thought he would be here for 5 years. I feel - in pure speculation - that his role is to get this team through a few lean years then retire. The 5-year contract was to make it look like they were serious in their hire. His demeanor and personality are exactly what this team needs in this transition time, even if his HC acumen is not. But in fairness, his mistakes are not turning a contender into an also-ran.

The fact that what were essentially misses on three #1 picks speaks more to the decisions made than anything else, considering the lingering debate around all three of them being the best pick in their respective drafts. Especially with two #1 picks in the first five years, that was a missed opportunity to create significant impact and relevance, which would have created the foundation of winning for this team. Instead, it extended the "expansion team" mindset for a few more years.

On your last line, I think we just interpret their efforts differently. It is clear to me based on how they have been competitive in most of these losses into the 4th quarter that they are trying to win. We can argue that decisions about who is dressed on game day or certain playcalls and what not were the right decisions or not. Mistakes are going to be made. But I see a team that gives its all for as long as it can until they are gassed or the talent level disparity finally shows up. Nor have I seen a game plan from Culley that is obviously designed to prioritize anything over winning. I think he turtled one game in the second half, but we should be used to that by now thanks to Kubiak and OB. They have typically played really solid 45 minutes in their games this season. Unfortunately games are 60 minutes long.
 


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