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Next Head Coach

Wouldn't it be something if O'b was bluffing?

Say he stormed into McNair's office, "This is BS... I can't work with this... He did this... he got that... & now I've got to... This is bull. It's him or me Bob."

And McNair was like, "We'll do everything we can to help you save face on the way out."
 
Except Belichick has a habit of promoting from within. when was the last time he brought someone in as a coordinator?

O'brien coached for twenty years before going to the Patriots as an assistant, starting at the bottom.

He would be promoting from within. Vrabel and him are very familiar with each other and have a great relationship and communication history. That is why Vrabel used to work on plays on offense for them. Vrabel is a LB's coach with a strong history of 3 years here now with 3 straight seasons of a good defense. Him getting a DC job at this point wouldn't seem strange at all for any team to hire him especially since other teams have already expressed interest in the past. Vrabel getting an opportunity to coach on a team with BRady again that already has a strong roster and with Bill as his HC would be huge for him. The Patriots are going to remain as a top team so a few years as a DC there could eventually streamline him to a HC job down the road a lot faster. I didn't think about this scenario until Swt posted that, and I think it will have a high chance of happening myself.
 
He would be promoting from within. Vrabel and him are very familiar with each other and have a great relationship and communication history. That is why Vrabel used to work on plays on offense for them. Vrabel is a LB's coach with a strong history of 3 years here now with 3 straight seasons of a good defense. Him getting a DC job at this point wouldn't seem strange at all for any team to hire him especially since other teams have already expressed interest in the past. Vrabel getting an opportunity to coach on a team with BRady again that already has a strong roster and with Bill as his HC would be huge for him. The Patriots are going to remain as a top team so a few years as a DC there could eventually streamline him to a HC job down the road a lot faster. I didn't think about this scenario until Swt posted that, and I think it will have a high chance of happening myself.

Yeah... a few years as the Patriots DC would be great on his resume.

Yeah, teams have expressed interest in Vrabel as a DC.

I doubt Belichick would bring him in as DC. That's why he's the GOAT & everyone who leaves New England don't really make it. Like I said, O'Brien with 20 years of coaching experienced started at the bottom & worked his way up. Relatively fast, sure. But when I say bottom, I mean he wasn't even a position coach. He was an offensive assistant, one of the film break down guys.

Vrabel may have a leg up, coaching with Romeo. Maybe he starts as a true position coach. & moves up in a year or two. But I doubt Belichick is going to bring him in at the top defensive coaching position.

To tell you the truth, it's time for Vrabel to expand his experience here. Move him to DBs, DL, maybe RBs & see if he can repeat that success before making him a DC.
 
So Romeo gets screwed for doing a good job, being able to work with Rick and producing the #1 defense in the league regardless of player availability?

I disagree. I think Romeo should at least be asked if he wants to be a HC.



He's worked here before. I'm sure he knows if he's doing his job he doesn't have to worry about meddling owners. He also knows that the McNairs, including Rick, are willing to help him work through issues... instead of just getting the ax.

I don't really understand. We're always insisting these guys be held accountable, but once they're called to the carpet, we byotch about a "meddling" owner.
I agree with everything outside of RC getting the job as our teams head coach.

RC is a master defensive coordinator but he just never could get it done as a head coach. He was not awful but I don't see him lifting this team out of mediocrity.

It is sad that some of the best coordinators and position coaches have failed as head coaches but they have and there will be more in the future. Kyle Shanahan might be the next one to fail. He is the Belle of the ball right now but that could change quickly when he is the head coach of a team aside from coordinating an offense.

I don't know who is available that has won plenty of games as a head coach but to me a proven head coach is what I would look for.
 
I agree with everything outside of RC getting the job as our teams head coach.

All I'm saying is ask him if he's interested. I think he's deserved that. That doesn't mean he'll get the job, but he'll be interviewed & taken into consideration. Then they'll have to explain why they went a different direction & ask him if he'd be interested in staying the DC.
 
I think we should go ahead and just start calling him "Rick McNair" because "Rick with his nose three feet up Bob's ass" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Been saying this since 2010

Bob McNair, hands off LOL
 
If Patricia gets a HC gig, be rest assured Vrabel will be the next DC in Foxboro

If word gets out that McNair/Smith undercut BOB, no HC that's really good will want to come here. Example Shanny/Saban/Fisher/Harbaugh wont have anything to do with a Texans org structured the way it's currently structured.

Word on the street is BOB wanted to bring in Robinson from the Pats as GM and kick Smith upstairs. McNair vetoed that idea, which lead to the current rift, that was made even worse by the McNair/Smith signing of Os.

I cant divulge who I heard this from. It's 2nd hand knowledge but this person has been right on other things Texans related. Kubiak being kept and Wade being hired for instance.
While what you say about the meddling of McNair may have some truth it does not change the fact that BO'b was awful in dealing with the offense this season. It would seem he had total control of that aspect of the team and was never called to task for how poorly it was this season. Instead it was all on Os as to how bad things went.

I like BO'b but I just don't see the excuse that he did not have the players he wanted. I don't buy the fact that BO'b was completely shut out of personel decisions.

Still BO'b remains the head coach and if it is for the pay than he should adapt to the talent he has and make it work so as to keep his job and ensure he gets paid further down the road.

Our team has plenty of offensive talent but it seems to have been wasted.

Our Qb's don't deserve all the blame. Without BO'b adapting and looking to make necessary changes to fit our talent it is no wonder our quarterbacks seem lost.

Os has many issues that need to be corrected, but with proper coaching and a different offensive philosophy that fits the offense, many of those issues could have been ironed out.

Point being is that BO'b accepted the job paid well or not, and if the pay is reason enough to stay employed than BO'b acknowledged he would make things work.
 
It is not hard to understand this. Os was paid very well to be the starter on our team and we will go with him against the Raiders.

I really don't think TS was all that messed up from his Qb sneak. BO'b wanted to see how Os would perform with a different offensive game plan and Os did a fairly good job. It is not like Os was playing Qb against the Titans JV guys. He did a solid job and showed that he deserved the chance. I don't think BO'b will waste much time in pulling Os should he revert back to the crap we have seen from him most of the season. This is after all the playoffs.

Besides it is not like the Raiders will have a huge advantage if any at the Qb position when we play them.
 
:rolleyes:

More baseless assumptions. Show some damn proof that McNair ordered anyone to do whatever, and I'll retract. In the meantime, march on with the baseless assumptions.

We all know that proof is never coming but that doesn't mean the assumption is entirely baseless. Bob McNair's a mystery owner and rarely do we really get much information on how hands-on or hands-off he is. We just will never be privy to who is really making some of these decisions.

With years of data though it's possible to make an assumption that at least kind of fits the facts. I agree it's not the most accurate way of doing it but it's what we've got and after things like Bob dropping Wade on Gary (which I applauded and worked out fine) or Bob dropping Ed Reed on Wade (wow, that fell apart quickly) and the much repeated story that Brock was a Rick Smith thing or a Bob and Rick Smith thing and you start to get the feeling that Bob McNair doesn't want to be known as a Jerry Jones type of owner but might very well enjoy playing at it in his spare time.

I don't think for a second that Savage passed one evaluation and then failed the next one. I really just can't wrap my head around that. The Texans had to understand the situation so concussion or no concussion they had to know that a second evaluation would cost them any chance to prepare Savage for the playoffs. The entire decision to evaluate him twice just feels really contrived.
 
It is not hard to understand this. Os was paid very well to be the starter on our team and we will go with him against the Raiders.

I really don't think TS was all that messed up from his Qb sneak. BO'b wanted to see how Os would perform with a different offensive game plan and Os did a fairly good job. It is not like Os was playing Qb against the Titans JV guys. He did a solid job and showed that he deserved the chance. I don't think BO'b will waste much time in pulling Os should he revert back to the crap we have seen from him most of the season. This is after all the playoffs.

Besides it is not like the Raiders will have a huge advantage if any at the Qb position when we play them.

Exactly

It's puzzling in the way the did it though. What was up with O'Brien trotting Savage back out there after the half. Had the man take a knee and bam his concussion is for real now. When he went to get it check, the doctors cleared him hahaha.
 
:rolleyes:

More baseless assumptions. Show some damn proof that McNair ordered anyone to do whatever, and I'll retract. In the meantime, march on with the baseless assumptions.
McNair clearly wanted to find out about Case Keenum here:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.batt...r-had-to-say?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

Whether they saw enough or the fact that Keenum 's thumb injury kept him out the last two games, we don't know.

But, clearly, McNair wanted to see Keenum get the playing time before that.
 
Great breakdown steelbtexan

Now here is the counter to that. Ronnie Crennel's defense is dealing with even more key injuries. But he has managed to not only survive without the best defensive lineman on the planet, he has them at the number one defense in the NFL.

I understand Brock's inconsistencies and the injuries to key linemen. But honestly I believe O'Brien could've maximize this situation much better than this. I mean he took a very inconsistent turnover waiting to happened Fitzpatrick better known as Fitztragic and turned him to a very serviceable QB. (Remember his numbers we're his best ever as a Pro). Then he took a very timid Hoyer who I've said on many of occasions withers against stout defense and made him into a serviceable QB. So why couldn't he do that with Brock? Let's look at the play calling from back then to now. Steel it's totally different. We are not seeing a lot of crossing routes to get these receivers open, not enough screens passes, not getting the QB on the move to buy him some more time, and most definitely not enough attacking the seems and middle of the field. In the last 2 years we were doing all of that. And man what's up with his play calling in the red zone. ATROCIOUS!

Ask yourself why he was able to be semi successful with Fitz and Hoyer and not with OS. It's the same reason that BOB isn't calling a lot of crossing routes. Those routes with a QB as inaccurate as Os is leads to turnovers. See: The Jags game. Couple that with a OL that stinks and you've got the offense you've got. One that BOB's trying to minimize turnovers and give the defense/Novak a chance to win the game.

The redzone issues are that the OL isn't getting enough push to pickup 3rd and 1 or less. It happens in the middle of the field to but since the defense has more area to cover BOB is able to somewhat scheme around these deficiencies, you he cant do that in the redzone where the field is more compact consistently.
 
Ask yourself why he was able to be semi successful with Fitz and Hoyer and not with OS. It's the same reason that BOB isn't calling a lot of crossing routes. Those routes with a QB as inaccurate as Os is leads to turnovers. See: The Jags game. Couple that with a OL that stinks and you've got the offense you've got. One that BOB's trying to minimize turnovers and give the defense/Novak a chance to win the game.

The redzone issues are that the OL isn't getting enough push to pickup 3rd and 1 or less. It happens in the middle of the field to but since the defense has more area to cover BOB is able to somewhat scheme around these deficiencies, you he cant do that in the redzone where the field is more compact consistently.
All I know is that a tempo driven offense seems to have been more succesful than a run first driven offense.
 
McNair clearly wanted to find out about Case Keenum here:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.batt...r-had-to-say?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

Whether they saw enough or the fact that Keenum 's thumb injury kept him out the last two games, we don't know.

But, clearly, McNair wanted to see Keenum get the playing time before that.
And here, it said that McNair talked to Osweiler's agent at the owner meeting.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcwest/po...k-brock-osweiler-ended-up-with-houston-texans

And here, McNair said that Rick Smith has the says in personnel, but if O'Brien is in much disagreement, they can come to him.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.expr...-8630461.php?client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us

That means he, McNair, has the final say.

You put the two incidents together, and tell me who decided on Osweiler?
 
Patricia has been with the Patriots since 2004. he's been an offensive assistant, offensive line assistant, linebackers coach, & safeties position coach.

I think Belichick has a system that works for him. I can't see him brining the Texans LB coach over to be his DC.

We will see, if BB wants Vrabel he's gone and Vrabel knows BB's system as well as anybody BB could hire. Maybe BB brings back RAC and Vrabel becomes the Texans DC is the only way I could see Vrabel staying.

I've got a feeling that after this season you're going to see a lot of Texans coaches getting out of town while the getting is good, before this dysfunctional org destroys their careers.

This only applies if BOB leaves and even then Vrabel is probably gone.
 
Like every owner doesn't have final say.

But I thought you were singing from the rooftops just a few yrs ago about how McNair was a hands off owner?

Yes the owner has final say and it should be that way. But to hamstrung your HC with a QB and not giving you're HC any say on the matter is the definition of a dysfunctional org.
 
Final Say is a given but not every owner creates a team structure that means he has to use that final say very often. Hands off owners still have final say but if they hire a good GM they let him run the show. We talk about Rick "BIGDICKING" O'Brien but who's to say that Bob McNair doesn't do the same thing with Rick when he wants to and what is Rick McNair gonna do about it? He's gonna smile and take it because at the end of the day he gets to keep his job and his job is one step closer to the boss's ear than O'Brien's is no matter how much they want to talk about all being equal and getting an equal amount of input into it.

When Bob McNair hired O'Brien do you think "Rick McNair" wanted somebody else maybe? If he did he knew enough to keep his mouth shut and just maintain the power he had and if so then that was no different than Bob (or Rick) going out and getting Wade Phillips and telling Gary he was getting a present for next season. No different than Bob (or Rick) going out and getting Wade Phillips a new starting hobo for his secondary.

This game was played this way when the principles were Bud Adams, Bum Phillips, and Ladd Herzeg. It's the same damn game.
 
While what you say about the meddling of McNair may have some truth it does not change the fact that BO'b was awful in dealing with the offense this season. It would seem he had total control of that aspect of the team and was never called to task for how poorly it was this season. Instead it was all on Os as to how bad things went.

I like BO'b but I just don't see the excuse that he did not have the players he wanted. I don't buy the fact that BO'b was completely shut out of personel decisions.

Still BO'b remains the head coach and if it is for the pay than he should adapt to the talent he has and make it work so as to keep his job and ensure he gets paid further down the road.

Our team has plenty of offensive talent but it seems to have been wasted.

Our Qb's don't deserve all the blame. Without BO'b adapting and looking to make necessary changes to fit our talent it is no wonder our quarterbacks seem lost.

Os has many issues that need to be corrected, but with proper coaching and a different offensive philosophy that fits the offense, many of those issues could have been ironed out.

Point being is that BO'b accepted the job paid well or not, and if the pay is reason enough to stay employed than BO'b acknowledged he would make things work.

See: where we disagree is

1. Rick McNair is in charge of getting BOB the players he wants and he doesn't have a clue as to what he's doing. It's hard to have a clue when your nose is always up the bosses sons butt.
2. Tell me more about the talent on the offense? Without an OL it doesn't matter. Who's the slot WR in this offense. Miller is banged up etc... truth is they're just trying to get by for another yr.
 
All I know is that a tempo driven offense seems to have been more succesful than a run first driven offense.

If you want to wear your defense down, lengthen the game and let BO throw the ball 40-50 times a game then this is the offense for you. But you can expect a bunch of turnovers and losses.
 
To me, this is where the owner can exercise his power.

An owner can exercise his power when and where he (or she) darn well want. Probably should know what they are doing and/or ready to take the consequences of his or her action. Does not mean I can't make observations about the organization, but I doubt any of those people care what the message board thinks about their actions
 
We will see, if BB wants Vrabel he's gone and Vrabel knows BB's system as well as anybody BB could hire. Maybe BB brings back RAC and Vrabel becomes the Texans DC is the only way I could see Vrabel staying.

I bet Belichick brings in Rob Ryan & still win 12 games.
 
But I thought you were singing from the rooftops just a few yrs ago about how McNair was a hands off owner?

Yes the owner has final say and it should be that way. But to hamstrung your HC with a QB and not giving you're HC any say on the matter is the definition of a dysfunctional org.

English is a fairly plain language. Having final say doesn't mean constantly involved. Look different words. And you have nothing other than assumption on QB.
 
But I thought you were singing from the rooftops just a few yrs ago about how McNair was a hands off owner?

Yes the owner has final say and it should be that way. But to hamstrung your HC with a QB and not giving you're HC any say on the matter is the definition of a dysfunctional org.

Unless that HC brought Bryan Hoyer in to be his starter, then benches him in week 1 (1st qtr I think), then plays him in a play off game & Hoyer is responsible for 5 turnovers, four in the first half....

Nothing says accountable like forcing a QB on an offensive guru. Next step is fired.
 
We all know that proof is never coming but that doesn't mean the assumption is entirely baseless. Bob McNair's a mystery owner and rarely do we really get much information on how hands-on or hands-off he is. We just will never be privy to who is really making some of these decisions.

With years of data though it's possible to make an assumption that at least kind of fits the facts. I agree it's not the most accurate way of doing it but it's what we've got and after things like Bob dropping Wade on Gary (which I applauded and worked out fine) or Bob dropping Ed Reed on Wade (wow, that fell apart quickly) and the much repeated story that Brock was a Rick Smith thing or a Bob and Rick Smith thing and you start to get the feeling that Bob McNair doesn't want to be known as a Jerry Jones type of owner but might very well enjoy playing at it in his spare time.

I don't think for a second that Savage passed one evaluation and then failed the next one. I really just can't wrap my head around that. The Texans had to understand the situation so concussion or no concussion they had to know that a second evaluation would cost them any chance to prepare Savage for the playoffs. The entire decision to evaluate him twice just feels really contrived.

Nothing really to say about anything you have posted, other than I don't think the Texans decided to evaluate him again. From what I have read of the concussion protocol the "best practice" is to perform serial evaluations every 20 minutes for an hour, then every hour for 3 hours.

"because concussive injury can evolve and may not be apparent for several minutes or hours. Even if a player passes an initial concussion assessment and is returned to practice or play he must be checked periodically during practice or play and again before leaving the venue."

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/lyris/pdfs/NFL_Diagnosis_Mgmt_Concussion.pdf

Again not saying one way or the other what actually happened... but it does seem that once you are pulled for a concussion assessment, even if you pass it doesn't mean you won't get checked again and potentially pulled. Although I not sure I have ever seen it happen before
 
English is a fairly plain language. Having final say doesn't mean constantly involved. Look different words. And you have nothing other than assumption on QB.

So you really think BOB wanted Os and pounded the table for him.

Haven't seen much of you around here lately. How's life in fantasy land?

Just admit McNair isn't the owner you thought he is.
 
The more savvy knowledgeable owners no when to and more importantly no when not to.

"Know" for God's sake. It's figgin' monosyllabic.

So you really think BOB wanted Os and pounded the table for him.

Haven't seen much of you around here lately. How's life in fantasy land?

Just admit McNair isn't the owner you thought he is.

You have no clue and just assume. You and Texian just write your own narrative. Wait you 'no' better than everyone else. Sue spells better.
 
I quoted the wrong article.

In this one, McNair said Osweiler's agent told him that 'playing under Manning's shadow's was part of the reason Osweiler wanted out of Denver.

http://www.espn.com/blog/houston-te...anted-to-get-out-of-elway-and-mannings-shadow
Remember that McNair had already stated that Rick Smith makes the decision on personnel.

That and the fact he was adamant about finding a franchise QB last off-season. He clearly did not have Savage in mind.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...-team-needs-to-a-franchise-quarterback-011416
 
"Know" for God's sake. It's figgin' monosyllabic.

?



You have no clue and just assume. You and Texian just write your own narrative. Wait you 'no' better than everyone else. Sue spells better.

So you believe Os was a BOB move?

OK, duly noted, is that like the McNair is a hands off owner theme that you used to propagate for yrs around these parts?

Spells better than what/who?
 
All I'm saying is ask him if he's interested. I think he's deserved that. That doesn't mean he'll get the job, but he'll be interviewed & taken into consideration. Then they'll have to explain why they went a different direction & ask him if he'd be interested in staying the DC.
If you were John Elway would you be taking the same approach with Wade Phillips?

I'm asking because as much as I like Wade, and respect him as a DC, I wouldn't want him as a HC (Didn't when Kubiak got fired, wouldn't now if I were a Denver fan).

Granted, it's only been two HC jobs for RAC, and one of them was the Browns, so it might only kinda count, but I follow the Chiefs closely, and I don't think he's cut out to be a HC, and I don't want him a the HC of my team.
 
So you believe Os was a BOB move?

I think he signed off on it the same way Rick & McNair signed off on Fitzpatrick & Hoyer. Two QBs he picked & benched.

I don't think Osweiler was "forced" on O'b. I think he agreed that he could work with him.

He gave Brock 16 weeks, benched him. I think McNair was ok with that. I think Rick was ok with that. I think Brock was ok with that.

I think it's unfortunate Savage got hurt. That's his albatross. it is what it is.
 
I think he signed off on it the same way Rick & McNair signed off on Fitzpatrick & Hoyer. Two QBs he picked & benched.

I don't think Osweiler was "forced" on O'b. I think he agreed that he could work with him.

He gave Brock 16 weeks, benched him. I think McNair was ok with that. I think Rick was ok with that. I think Brock was ok with that.

I think it's unfortunate Savage got hurt. That's his albatross. it is what it is.

Well then if this is the case why didn't BOB allow Savage to try to pass concussion protocol before naming Os the starter?

Keep on believing/hold on to that feelin
 
Well then if this is the case why didn't BOB allow Savage to try to pass concussion protocol before naming Os the starter?

Keep on believing/hold on to that feelin

I dislike BoB as much as the next guy, but I agree with thunderkyss. The reality is even if Savage passes later in the week, he would have gotten 0 reps and likely missed meetings all week. It doesn't benefit THE TEAM to allow Savage to start Saturday with no reps.

Not to mention, Savage looked average, just like Brock. I still think Savage is more accurate, but he too looked average.
 
If you were John Elway would you be taking the same approach with Wade Phillips?

I'm asking because as much as I like Wade, and respect him as a DC, I wouldn't want him as a HC (Didn't when Kubiak got fired, wouldn't now if I were a Denver fan).

Granted, it's only been two HC jobs for RAC, and one of them was the Browns, so it might only kinda count, but I follow the Chiefs closely, and I don't think he's cut out to be a HC, and I don't want him a the HC of my team.

Yes. if Denver appreciates what Wade has done on the defensive side of the ball & feel like he could be a good head coach I'd ask him if he'd like to be considered.

In neither situation am I offering them the job. just adding them to the list of candidates.

I wouldn't have a problem with either as head coaches. I think both KC & Cleveland had issues much bigger than head coach when Romeo was there.

& I think Wade has gotten screwed every place he's been.

I think both would stick to their strengths & let a young OC hone his craft, let him design their offense, select players, but when it comes to coaching, setting the tone, holding players accountable, empowering leaders, like they do on the defensive side of the ball, they'll assist.
 
I dislike BoB as much as the next guy, but I agree with thunderkyss. The reality is even if Savage passes later in the week, he would have gotten 0 reps and likely missed meetings all week. It doesn't benefit THE TEAM to allow Savage to start Saturday with no reps.

Not to mention, Savage looked average, just like Brock. I still think Savage is more accurate, but he too looked average.

You don't think BOB thinks Savage gives him the best chance to win?

Especially after going against the owners wishes and starting Savage, even when he brought Savage off the bench with 0 reps angainst the Jags?
 
Well then if this is the case why didn't BOB allow Savage to try to pass concussion protocol before naming Os the starter?

He had today. he was out of the game before the end of the 1st qtr. he had all day yesterday. he came in this morning & wasn't cleared.

They play on Saturday.

I think it was the prudent thing to do.
 
You don't think BOB thinks Savage gives him the best chance to win?

Especially after going against the owners wishes and starting Savage, even when he brought Savage off the bench with 0 reps angainst the Jags?

I don't think we know that honestly. Savage hasn't played long enough for us to know that. Oz didn't play that bad in games one and two to start the season, and if that was all that we saw of Oz right now, we'd all be a little excited.

Savage was never going to be a savior to me, but maybe he is better. Wouldnt' be that difficult to reach that, but we really don't know yet.
 
You don't think BOB thinks Savage gives him the best chance to win?

Especially after going against the owners wishes and starting Savage, even when he brought Savage off the bench with 0 reps angainst the Jags?

No I don't think that. BoB could have EASILY picked Savage, especially if he plans on "parting ways" with the team in 7 days.
 
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