Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

I did look over one part of the article of Mcnair's quotes. When he said that they've identified who they believe will help them in FA and that they will go after those guys. So atleast he stated that.

Now my thing about that is, if you've identified them and you know they will help your team, now I need to see you go ahead and win the bidding war on those guys and get as many of them in as possible.

How do we know they haven't been winning those bidding wars though? After all, it is the guys they think will help them. To my knowledge, the only guys that we know they lost out on in bidding wars were Orlando Pace (if he was even seriously thinking about coming here) & Bodden; 1 wasn't nearly the player he once was & the other tore up his knee before the season started so...
 
How do we know they haven't been winning those bidding wars though? After all, it is the guys they think will help them. To my knowledge, the only guys that we know they lost out on in bidding wars were Orlando Pace (if he was even seriously thinking about coming here) & Bodden; 1 wasn't nearly the player he once was & the other tore up his knee before the season started so...

Well that's kind of what I'm saying here though. If these are guys that you KNOW are going to help our team, that means you've done some research which also means you should be able to or show that you did everything possible and more to obtain those players. So now there is no excuse for not getting these players.

Like everyone said and like the sign says in the locker room "Deeds, Not Words".
 
I did look over one part of the article of Mcnair's quotes. When he said that they've identified who they believe will help them in FA and that they will go after those guys. So atleast he stated that.

Now my thing about that is, if you've identified them and you know they will help your team, now I need to see you go ahead and win the bidding war on those guys and get as many of them in as possible.

Like a "silent" auction..........we will never know. Claims of phantom bids on phantom players so far.
 
Well that's kind of what I'm saying here though. If these are guys that you KNOW are going to help our team, that means you've done some research which also means you should be able to or show that you did everything possible and more to obtain those players. So now there is no excuse for not getting these players.

Like everyone said and like the sign says in the locker room "Deeds, Not Words".

Like a "silent" auction..........we will never know. Claims of phantom bids on phantom players so far.

What CnD said - we will never know their deeds in all likelihood. And yes there are plenty of "excuses" or reasons for not getting players. You are willing to pay $3 mil and someone else offers $8 mil in stupid money. The player wants the entire contract guaranteed. The player just doesn't like Houston. All of the player's family lives in Florida and Miami makes an offer. It's Innegan and he doesn't want AJ to punk him in practice every day. Whatever. There are lots of things beyond a team's control.
 
What CnD said - we will never know their deeds in all likelihood. And yes there are plenty of "excuses" or reasons for not getting players. You are willing to pay $3 mil and someone else offers $8 mil in stupid money. The player wants the entire contract guaranteed. The player just doesn't like Houston. All of the player's family lives in Florida and Miami makes an offer. It's Innegan and he doesn't want AJ to punk him in practice every day. Whatever. There are lots of things beyond a team's control.

Honestly, I think that if the Texans were offering all these players they would make it known.

I don't recall them being super secretive when bringing in Bodden last year...

Maybe they wouldn't disclose the details of what is being offered, but I really don't see why they would be so secretive about who they are going after...

I don't recall one time that we have signed a free agent and it just popped up out of nowhere...Seems like we always have some kinds of heads up...even when they bring in FA's during the season, we tend to know that they are interested in them before they sign...

Either way...It doesn't exactly make them look great at getting FA talent...

They either suck at convincing guys to come here/aren't offering enough money -or- they just aren't as active as one would be lead to believe.

Based on McNair saying that they "aren't going to do something crazy", I'm inclined to believe that they probably aren't as aggressive. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not. But I just don't believe that they are doing all they can behind the scenes and we just don't know about the players they are going after.
 
Last edited:
What CnD said - we will never know their deeds in all likelihood. And yes there are plenty of "excuses" or reasons for not getting players. You are willing to pay $3 mil and someone else offers $8 mil in stupid money. The player wants the entire contract guaranteed. The player just doesn't like Houston. All of the player's family lives in Florida and Miami makes an offer. It's Innegan and he doesn't want AJ to punk him in practice every day. Whatever. There are lots of things beyond a team's control.

You have spun this same excuse on behalf of the Texans management for over three years now and probably longer than that before I got here. It's the same typical excuse over and over like Groundhog Day. This whole "We don't know what they have tried or not tried" is really tiring and actually false, because it's very well known what teams all over the league are doing.

When teams are out there talking to other players or trying to negotiate trades it gets reported. Websites all over the place like PFT, Sporting News, and Rotoworld and all sorts of other media outlets report what teams are doing what and who they're talking to. The fact that you're still using this line to excuse the Texans management either tells me that you've never paid any attention to these sites or that you feel like you have to excuse Smithiaknair at all costs. But to sit here and say that we don't know about all this stuff is factually incorrect, because I hear about what teams are doing all around the league and the Texans are always a team that is silent practically while other teams like the Eagles, Pats, Cowboys, Giants, Jets, and a few other teams are constantly moving and shaking and in the mix of trying to improve their teams. We constantly stand pat and build through the draft and our management has said that before many times as well. So please stop saying "well we don't know and we have no idea", because we do know because it gets reported and the Texans are never in any kind of reports for anything worthy of conversation around the league hardly. The minor reports that you do hear about are only for small time barely up to par average players that we pick up that only people in here would even talk about. But it's very well known almost all of the time when teams are trying to negotiate with other teams for trades or to bring in other players that are pretty good. Player's agents leak this stuff all of the time and reporters report this stuff constantly because it's their job.
 
Player's agents leak this stuff all of the time and reporters report this stuff constantly because it's their job.

Bingo.

It's not really a one way street with this stuff.

Player's agents leak this stuff so they can drive up the asking price from other clubs.

Even if the Texans wanted to keep this stuff secret (for reasons unbeknown to me), they would have to be like freaking KGB...
 
Bingo.

It's not really a one way street with this stuff.

Player's agents leak this stuff so they can drive up the asking price from other clubs.

Even if the Texans wanted to keep this stuff secret (for reasons unbeknown to me), they would have to be like freaking KGB...

Yeah, for some reason there is still a crew in here that tries to use this same line and excuse every off season for Smithiaknair saying that we don't know what they're doing and we have no idea who they might have talked to and that's just straight bull. I read Rotoworld regularly and they report every single thing imaginable with every NFL team there is. That's their job. The Texans are practically ghosts on those main sites that report stuff. I know who the main teams are that are constantly moving and shaking and trying to improve their teams. It's all over the place if you just study what's going on with the NFL and know where to look.

The fact is that we have probably the worst GM in the league that should have never became a GM and he's just Kubiak's boy. Smith has never shown himself to be a savvy negotiator with other teams. He's very comfortable building through the draft and they've only said that like 100 times over the last 5 years. To keep saying that "we don't know" is just "excuse building" at this point for a regime that still hasn't delivered that some folks still think can deliver, but under these tactics or lack thereof I'd say, it's a horribly flawed strategy that will get us nowhere.
 
Only problem is we aren't seeing or hearing about them persuing people and that is namely because of the asking price. We let go of our two starting Safeties and yet we don't even look at OJ Atogwe (sp)? Why? Player wise he has all the credentials that you want in a safety who has played in the league. That leaves only one reason - price? We don't even hear a "Hey we tried but he didn't like our price" instead we hear "We know who we are targeting" and "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"
Which to mean translates into we are going to go for a decent player at a decent price instead of a game changing player for a little higher.

The whole building through the draft excuse should've gone out the window long time ago. IMO opinion you got those core players you wanted through the draft at every position so now it's time to add some super star talent to the mix:

WR - AJ drafted
RB - UDFA Foster (got lucky there)
QB - Schaub (used a couple of 2nds to get him)
OL - Brown, and Winston (bookend tackles)
DL - Mario
LB - Ryans and Cushing
CB - The ones you drafted sucked
Safeties - Never addressed this before and we've sucked ever since.

Time to add some veterans that are better than decent.
 
Yeah, for some reason there is still a crew in here that tries to use this same line and excuse every off season for Smithiaknair saying that we don't know what they're doing and we have no idea who they might have talked to and that's just straight bull. I read Rotoworld regularly and they report every single thing imaginable with every NFL team there is. That's their job. The Texans are practically ghosts on those main sites that report stuff. I know who the main teams are that are constantly moving and shaking and trying to improve their teams. It's all over the place if you just study what's going on with the NFL and know where to look.

The fact is that we have probably the worst GM in the league that should have never became a GM and he's just Kubiak's boy. Smith has never shown himself to be a savvy negotiator with other teams. He's very comfortable building through the draft and they've only said that like 100 times over the last 5 years. To keep saying that "we don't know" is just "excuse building" at this point for a regime that still hasn't delivered that some folks still think can deliver, but under these tactics or lack thereof I'd say, it's a horribly flawed strategy that will get us nowhere.

Yeah because inorder for that strategy to work you gotta draft real well too!
 
Honestly, I think that if the Texans were offering all these players they would make it known.

I don't recall them being super secretive when bringing in Bodden last year...

Actual visits are one thing. Who they try to talk to or bring in is an entirely different proposition.

Maybe they wouldn't disclose the details of what is being offered, but I really don't see why they would be so secretive about who they are going after...

No maybe about it. The amounts offered by competing teams are almost never reported. Being secretive is pretty much SOP around the league. When was the last time you saw a report that team X called the agent for player Y and he said hell no Y doesn't want to play for you?

You have spun this same excuse on behalf of the Texans management for over three years now and probably longer than that before I got here. It's the same typical excuse over and over like Groundhog Day. This whole "We don't know what they have tried or not tried" is really tiring and actually false, because it's very well known what teams all over the league are doing.

Step away from your Smithiak haterade rants. What I am saying isn't specific to the Texans and I think you are dead wrong that it is well known what teams all over the league are doing. Some information leaks out. A lot of what is reported is just rank speculation like McClain saying Okoye will probably be traded without referencing any Texans' source. I believe all around the league fans end up hearing about 10% or less of the moves/contacts attempted by teams. Disagree if you want but don't try to spin it off to satisfy your desire to turn everything into a comment about Smithiak because my comments had zilch to do with them specifically.
 
When was the last time you saw a report that team X called the agent for player Y and he said hell no Y doesn't want to play for you?

Well there was the Eli Manning thing...There are also players who demand trades...

I think that is different though. If an agent were to do that it'd only decrease the asking price for his player...Teams that the player would like to play for would gain a little more leverage.

I don't think that they would come out and lay all their cards on the table...They'd more likely use said team to get a better offer from the team they really want to play for.
 
Yeah, for some reason there is still a crew in here that tries to use this same line and excuse every off season for Smithiaknair saying that we don't know what they're doing and we have no idea who they might have talked to and that's just straight bull. I read Rotoworld regularly and they report every single thing imaginable with every NFL team there is. That's their job. The Texans are practically ghosts on those main sites that report stuff. I know who the main teams are that are constantly moving and shaking and trying to improve their teams. It's all over the place if you just study what's going on with the NFL and know where to look.

The fact is that we have probably the worst GM in the league that should have never became a GM and he's just Kubiak's boy. Smith has never shown himself to be a savvy negotiator with other teams. He's very comfortable building through the draft and they've only said that like 100 times over the last 5 years. To keep saying that "we don't know" is just "excuse building" at this point for a regime that still hasn't delivered that some folks still think can deliver, but under these tactics or lack thereof I'd say, it's a horribly flawed strategy that will get us nowhere.


Here's where you are wrong:

1. Rotoworld- Is entirely dependent on other news sources. All it does is collect them. The lack of hits it has on the Texans only indicates sports news coverage, particularly local coverage, is less than other teams. If you've been around for awhile, you know that is the case. We have one person in Houston print media covering the Texans and he only does that when it is convenient.

2. Rick Smith is not the worst GM in the league- that is either ignorant or filled with bias. He certainly got the job, in part at least, because of his relationship with Kubiak. Examples indicating that he's not the worst GM in football: his handling of the Owen Daniels contract negotiations the past two years, the 2009 draft and UDFA (Arian Foster) and the ability to find quality players from the scrap heap (Mike Brisiel, Rashod Butler, Vonta Leach, Chris Myers, Joel Dreessen...) With only one winning season under his belt, it's clear he's been far from the best GM in the NFL. I also share your concern that his lack of real power is a structural problem for the Texans.

You would have us believe that the Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith took over the worst franchise in the NFL and turned that disaster into a mediocre team despite being the worst coach and worst GM in football. So, I guess you think the Texans are very lucky then?
 
I think that is different though. If an agent were to do that it'd only decrease the asking price for his player...Teams that the player would like to play for would gain a little more leverage.

I don't think that they would come out and lay all their cards on the table...They'd more likely use said team to get a better offer from the team they really want to play for.

This touches on something else I thought about putting in above - agents deal with the teams all the time. They can't afford to piss them off too badly. Plus the GM's talk about who they think has screwed them. Sure agents will strategically leak at times but I think the idea that even a majority of interest/contacts gets reported is just flat out incorrect.
 
Here's where you are wrong:

1. Rotoworld- Is entirely dependent on other news sources. All it does is collect them. The lack of hits it has on the Texans only indicates sports news coverage, particularly local coverage, is less than other teams. If you've been around for awhile, you know that is the case. We have one person in Houston print media covering the Texans and he only does that when it is convenient.

It's one of the fastest sources to gain information about what takes place around the web on the NFL. Whether it gets it's information from other sources doesn't really matter. No one has 500 football and team sites that they can look at every day, but Rotoworld does and it collects that info and reports it and that's why it's a great news site for football, because it's a one stop shop for information as to what's going on with every team and every player practically if there is any news to report.


2. Rick Smith is not the worst GM in the league- that is either ignorant or filled with bias. He certainly got the job, in part at least, because of his relationship with Kubiak. Examples indicating that he's not the worst GM in football: his handling of the Owen Daniels contract negotiations the past two years, the 2009 draft and UDFA (Arian Foster) and the ability to find quality players from the scrap heap (Mike Brisiel, Rashod Butler, Vonta Leach, Chris Myers, Joel Dreessen...) With only one winning season under his belt, it's clear he's been far from the best GM in the NFL. I also share your concern that his lack of real power is a structural problem for the Texans.

This is by far one of the worst lists you could provide to make an argument for Rick Smith. His drafting skills aren't good at all really, and his signings are the definition of "meh". He doesn't go out there and make any successful trades, he doesn't establish great relationships with the top agents around the league or the other players for that matter. Practically half the decisions and stuff that he gets paid for is stuff that Kubiak has his hands on any way. SMith really doesn't even need to be employeed here with as much emphasis as Gary has. The fact that Smith even draws a salary is laughable.

You would have us believe that the Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith took over the worst franchise in the NFL and turned that disaster into a mediocre team despite being the worst coach and worst GM in football. So, I guess you think the Texans are very lucky then?

Why is it that you still act like that's some sort of success? Lol!!! I've got news for you, it's not. So Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak took over a team that was a bottom feeder. I get it. You've mentioned this over and over for years. But guess what? They've still done nothing since they've gotten here and it's 5 YEARS LATER. I know that you think that winning 6 games is some major improvement, but it wasn't. Teams around the league make 4 game win improvements all of the time. Going from 6-10 to 8-8 wasn't much of an improvement either and I can't believe that anyone thought 9-7 was something to cheer for after two years of 8-8. Smithiak has been the epitome of one step forward-two steps back since they've been here and established themselves as easy pickings around the rest of the NFL even when they have games in the bag. The only successful thing that Smithiak has been able to do here is stay in Mcnair's good graces.
 
Actual visits are one thing. Who they try to talk to or bring in is an entirely different proposition.



No maybe about it. The amounts offered by competing teams are almost never reported. Being secretive is pretty much SOP around the league. When was the last time you saw a report that team X called the agent for player Y and he said hell no Y doesn't want to play for you?

Those types of reports come out quite frequently.



Step away from your Smithiak haterade rants.

I don't think there is any such thing as a "haterade" rant when we're talking about a duo of HC and GM that have accomplished nothing but fail together. That's speaking on fact and truth. It's not "hating."

What I am saying isn't specific to the Texans and I think you are dead wrong that it is well known what teams all over the league are doing. Some information leaks out.

All you have to do is pay attention around the league and not read about just the Texans dude. When free agents are out there shopping themselves around there are always reports about what teams they've talked to or what teams are interested and making pitches at them. Then when they sign contracts there are more reports about why they didn't sign with this team or that team from either them or the teams themselves. There are also reports about what teams are trying to trade with whom and what they're looking for or who they're trying to shop. This stuff gets reported, and sure every single thing in the world may not be out there to be read and disected on every detail, but the majority of it gets reported if it has any legs to it. I don't know if you just pay attention to just the Texans, but I pay attention to the entire league because I have to it's not hard to see who the main teams are that are constantly making moves. The Texans are hardly ever reported on for doing anything or even trying really.

Every off season you make these same arguments for Smithiak acting like they're being so smart by being conservative and they've got probably a ton of things shaking, but they're just this one organization in the NFL that keeps it as top secret, yet at the end of the off season we don't really do anything and at the end of the season it's proven to have been a fail of a season again where off season moves could have been made to change things.

A lot of what is reported is just rank speculation like McClain saying Okoye will probably be traded without referencing any Texans' source. I believe all around the league fans end up hearing about 10% or less of the moves/contacts attempted by teams. Disagree if you want but don't try to spin it off to satisfy your desire to turn everything into a comment about Smithiak because my comments had zilch to do with them specifically.

I don't have to spin. The lack of moves since SMithiak has been here us pure proof of that. The lack of reports that we're ever doing anything is proof of that. They've said themselves "We like to build through the draft." That's their approach. How many times do they have to say it and only do it that way for you to stop acting like we've got the most secretive team in the league that just knows how to keep the public from knowing any of the secret war plans from Smithiak? I mean come on. We don't have some sort of top notch Skull And Bones society of scouts and minions that work for Rick Smith that know how to negotiate and do under the table deals that are to top secret to get reported ever. Since Smithiak arrived here they've stated that building through the draft is their thing and they've stuck by it.
 
I see both sides, but I'm leaning more with Tex on this one...

I just think that if the Texans were active in Free agency we'd have heard more about it. I just can't see them going after all these "phantom players" and not so much as causing a ripple...
 
I don't think there is any such thing as a "haterade" rant when we're talking about a duo of HC and GM that have accomplished nothing but fail together. That's speaking on fact and truth. It's not "hating."

When you interpret generic comments about the league as the whole as a defense of Smithiak it is haterade.

All you have to do is pay attention around the league and not read about just the Texans dude. When free agents are out there shopping themselves around there are always reports about what teams they've talked to or what teams are interested and making pitches at them.

Yeah, I don't pay attention to anything but the Texans - LOL. You assume there are always reports for every contact. I think that assumption is fallacious. There are signings and trades made all the time for which there was no warning. Lots of times after a signing the most that is said is "other teams" were interested or made offers without identifying the teams.

And if you really watched the league so closely you would know that basically every GM in the league says "we want to build through the draft."
 
Why is it that you still act like that's some sort of success? Lol!!! I've got news for you, it's not. So Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak took over a team that was a bottom feeder. I get it. You've mentioned this over and over for years. But guess what? They've still done nothing since they've gotten here and it's 5 YEARS LATER. I know that you think that winning 6 games is some major improvement, but it wasn't. Teams around the league make 4 game win improvements all of the time. Going from 6-10 to 8-8 wasn't much of an improvement either and I can't believe that anyone thought 9-7 was something to cheer for after two years of 8-8. Smithiak has been the epitome of one step forward-two steps back since they've been here and established themselves as easy pickings around the rest of the NFL even when they have games in the bag. The only successful thing that Smithiak has been able to do here is stay in Mcnair's good graces.


According to TEX mathematics:

2-14 + one step forward + two steps back = 6-10. Hard to argue with that. I'm done.

All I am trying to do, is keep the argument in the realm of reality. I thought both of those guys should have been fired this season. If records matter, as you have said they do, then they have been mediocre. I think both of them had ample time to learn and grow in their job and prove their plan successful. But, they were unable to rise above mediocrity. That being said, that is a far cry from the worst in the NFL, which you continue to argue despite any logic whatsoever.
 
Those types of reports come out quite frequently.





I don't think there is any such thing as a "haterade" rant when we're talking about a duo of HC and GM that have accomplished nothing but fail together. That's speaking on fact and truth. It's not "hating."



All you have to do is pay attention around the league and not read about just the Texans dude. When free agents are out there shopping themselves around there are always reports about what teams they've talked to or what teams are interested and making pitches at them. Then when they sign contracts there are more reports about why they didn't sign with this team or that team from either them or the teams themselves. There are also reports about what teams are trying to trade with whom and what they're looking for or who they're trying to shop. This stuff gets reported, and sure every single thing in the world may not be out there to be read and disected on every detail, but the majority of it gets reported if it has any legs to it. I don't know if you just pay attention to just the Texans, but I pay attention to the entire league because I have to it's not hard to see who the main teams are that are constantly making moves. The Texans are hardly ever reported on for doing anything or even trying really.

Every off season you make these same arguments for Smithiak acting like they're being so smart by being conservative and they've got probably a ton of things shaking, but they're just this one organization in the NFL that keeps it as top secret, yet at the end of the off season we don't really do anything and at the end of the season it's proven to have been a fail of a season again where off season moves could have been made to change things.



I don't have to spin. The lack of moves since SMithiak has been here us pure proof of that. The lack of reports that we're ever doing anything is proof of that. They've said themselves "We like to build through the draft." That's their approach. How many times do they have to say it and only do it that way for you to stop acting like we've got the most secretive team in the league that just knows how to keep the public from knowing any of the secret war plans from Smithiak? I mean come on. We don't have some sort of top notch Skull And Bones society of scouts and minions that work for Rick Smith that know how to negotiate and do under the table deals that are to top secret to get reported ever. Since Smithiak arrived here they've stated that building through the draft is their thing and they've stuck by it.



The lack of moves that the all mighty texecutioner aprove of that is. All the reading of rotoworld in the world still doesn't disprove our point: you don't know what they've tried to do. Just b/c they don't report every potential move they plan to make in FA to satisfy your burden of proof doesn't mean that they haven't inquired. Most of the time, those teams you're raving about that are all over Rotoworld active in FA aren't signing world beaters..they're doing just what the texans are, signing guys that they believe fit their system...or are stealing guys off of other teams' practice squads.
 
I see both sides, but I'm leaning more with Tex on this one...

I just think that if the Texans were active in Free agency we'd have heard more about it. I just can't see them going after all these "phantom players" and not so much as causing a ripple...

Whenever some of the top names and successful players around the league are free agents or are part of trading deals where they've been unhappy and teams are making their pitches whether it be through free agency and trades it's always top news in the off season and the teams that are really in there trying to sign these guys are always being reported about and it's also typically reported as to why this team or that team dropped out or why that player didn't want to go there or why he chose another team instead. This is the business of sites all over the country that make their living on reporting just that.
 
We don't have some sort of top notch Skull And Bones society of scouts and minions that work for Rick Smith that know how to negotiate and do under the table deals that are to top secret to get reported ever. Since Smithiak arrived here they've stated that building through the draft is their thing and they've stuck by it.

Adding ammo to your assertions, Tex:

All three guys (Bob, Gary, Rick) have stated openly that we're dedicated to cacthing guys on the way up and NOT going after those guys who are too old and looking for a last payday from the Texans.

Therefore, this limits what we can get in free agency because most teams are going to hold onto their own young, "up and coming" guys.

All of this adds up to the Texans really just going after scrubs that they think they can turn around and "coach up" yet the punchline is that defensive players were not, and cannot, be coached up here. Maybe under Wade they can, but the prior five years? Nope. So not only did the d-coord themselves fail, but the player talent was limited also (building through the draft only, with the exception of Antonio Smith--which is a stretch, IMO).

It really is quite hilarious when we sit here and talk about it.
 
McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"

Okay, Mr. McNair, you're not going to do something crazy. Just know that what you are doing is considered the definition of "insanity" by Albert Einstein (doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results).

:wheel:
 
Whenever some of the top names and successful players around the league are free agents or are part of trading deals where they've been unhappy and teams are making their pitches whether it be through free agency and trades it's always top news in the off season and the teams that are really in there trying to sign these guys are always being reported about and it's also typically reported as to why this team or that team dropped out or why that player didn't want to go there or why he chose another team instead. This is the business of sites all over the country that make their living on reporting just that.


Scenario: Say Tom Brady right now is a FA & out on the market right now. Obviously, he's 1 of the top Qb's in the league & every team wants him or could use him save for Indy, GB, & i guess you could throw in Pitt, ATL & any team who has drafted & feels they have their franchise qb within the last 2 years (STL, TB etc.) that leaves what, 20 something teams still left that could/should go after him - aggressively.

However, you read on Rotoworld or wherever that the Pats, Ariz, & say SF are the only teams he has visits lined up or have contacted or whatever with him in the near future. Later he goes ahead & resigns with NE. Do you really think that those other teams desperate for a qb like Mia, Sea & say Tenn didn't at least inquire about what it was going to take to get him there?
 
Adding ammo to your assertions, Tex:

All three guys (Bob, Gary, Rick) have stated openly that we're dedicated to cacthing guys on the way up and NOT going after those guys who are too old and looking for a last payday from the Texans.

Therefore, this limits what we can get in free agency because most teams are going to hold onto their own young, "up and coming" guys.

All of this adds up to the Texans really just going after scrubs that they think they can turn around and "coach up" yet the punchline is that defensive players were not, and cannot, be coached up here. Maybe under Wade they can, but the prior five years? Nope. So not only did the d-coord themselves fail, but the player talent was limited also (building through the draft only, with the exception of Antonio Smith--which is a stretch, IMO).

It really is quite hilarious when we sit here and talk about it.

You're right, but most teams don't let their stars hit FA either...unless these guys have had problems in the past (haynesworth, peppers) and/or these guys have had injury concerns in the past (Brees, Woodson).
 
You're right, but most teams don't let their stars hit FA either...unless these guys have had problems in the past (haynesworth, peppers) and/or these guys have had injury concerns in the past (Brees, Woodson).

I just think Mcnair has got a mindset and he's painted himself into a corner with it.

It's like a tale of two eras with this guy: In the Casserly era, we gave Todd Wade a sweetheart deal. The Ahman Green deal was the final one, which I think was on Kubiak's watch. The new era is one marked by cautious pussyfooting as it relates to free agents, a sort of low-risk low-reward type thing.

We're going to have to make a move on a defensive player or two in order to compensate for the previous five years of FAIL as it relates to what I perceive as a lack of talent among defensive coaches. That's where McNair needs to let go of his new way of thinking, IMO.
 
When you interpret generic comments about the league as the whole as a defense of Smithiak it is haterade.



Yeah, I don't pay attention to anything but the Texans - LOL. You assume there are always reports for every contact. I think that assumption is fallacious. There are signings and trades made all the time for which there was no warning. Lots of times after a signing the most that is said is "other teams" were interested or made offers without identifying the teams.

Spin it however you'd like but 5 years of history of a lack of action speaks for itself. The Texans have been criticized over it for years and the fact that they've continually failed from year to year prove the criticisms to have been warranted and for those who argued on behalf of SMithiak and there lack of actions as being smart and doing things the right way like you're still doing now were wrong. Results speak for themselves and going 6-10 in the 5th year of a regime is indefensible at this point. They've done a bad job at acquiring players to fill holes and to find play makers.

And if you really watched the league so closely you would know that basically every GM in the league says "we want to build through the draft."

Well, gee Cak you're right, how did I not think of that? Every team builds through the draft. Otherwise they wouldn't even be participating in the draft now would they. The Texans are one of the only teams that have a philosophy of building strictly through the draft and you know that's what I meant. That's their MO and that's their style. They won't go out and spend big money to acquire certain players. They'll spend some here and there, but when a big time play maker is out there they never have in their history of 9 seasons. Not once. And please don't say they did with Todd Wade or Weaver again. Neither one of those guys were big time play makers that were highly sought after. Those were guys that didn't have a whole lot of demand on the open market at all and the Texans just decided to throw stupid money at. Of course every team wants to build through the draft, that's why they show up and make a pick every round, but many of the constantly successful teams go out and make trades either for picks or for players to make their team stronger. That's the whole point of what they're supposed to be doing if they're committed to winning. Being anti free agency for the most part and only have one approach for making your team stronger limits your chances and that means you have to draft extremely well with all your picks to where many of them can become effective starters right away and you've got to be great at drafting the right guys and that's a hard task for any GM much less to think some stuges like Smithiak is capable of that every draft.
 
What's interesting is that it appears there is a sector of people who think success isn't entirely or exclusively earned, but rather it's in conjunction with good fortune. Luck, good fortune, a series of circumstantial events. Fate.

This explains why some are a little bit more "chill" as it pertains to whether a coach should be fired or not.

I'm not saying that the Rabitt's Foot gang doesn't think Kubiak should have been fired--A lot of them have said that he should have been fired. But I think it explains their willingness to not get their panties in a bunch like the Soapers have over the deal. Too many factors involved, possibly, to say it was this or that (exclusively).

THEORY: Soapers think the end result is a sum total of the efforts of the people in charge of managing, planning, coaching, and playing the game of football. Rabbit Footers think that an element outside the control of man is linked to the end result (in addition to managing, planning, etc.).

This could explain why each side is entrenched against the other so often. On one side, there are those who think you can rise above and conquer any obstacle in your path--It's you vs. the world, find a way to adapt and overcome. On the other side of the aisle, there's a group who indeed values all of those ideals yet also thinks there's a certain ceiling you reach pertaining to the element of "What if Drew Bledsoe was never injured?"

My reasoning dictates that it was inevitable that Brady was going to get a shot. In the NFL, things seem to level themselves out pretty well. The NFL has always held intrugue for me because it's a place where everyone figures out fairly quickly who has the goods and who doesn't--The only squelching of talent seemingly arises either out of injury to the upward-trending athlete (Bo Jackson), trouble with the law (Burress), just flat out leaving the game altogether (Barry Sanders, Glen Coffe, etc.), or an owner and/or coach/GM who falls in love with the starter and doesn't have the good sense to see that the 2nd or 3rd string guy is the better option.

Even in the face of all those things I listed above, the best in the NFL seemingly find a way to rise to the top. One way or another, whether it's in camp, preseason games, injuries, a contract dispute and subsequent trading/releasing of the player, etc....all roads lead to the guy with the best talent getting his shot at some point or another.

To me, this renders the "What if Drew Bledsoe had never been injured" scenarios a bit of a moot point. What if Jimmy Johnson had never become a coach at all, what if he was a tire salesman instead? What if there wasn't an NFL at all? What if, what if, what if, etc. I think there is certainly something to the idea that a good bounce here, or a bad call by a ref there, can impact the end result.

I just think nothing of what I have seen from the Texans has shown me that they have a smidgen of ability to test the top tier of the NFL and truly challenge those teams in a one-on-one gameday situation for a chance at a SB ring. The offense? Maybe. Yet they still are a tricky group to rely upon when you look at 2010's efforts all season long.

I think we're a team that doesn't know how to deal with adversity and unfortunate bounces to the point of taking it by the tail and just throwing it out of the entire stadium. No killer instinct, IMO. No do-or-die persona, IMO. And I think that eminates from the top (McNair) to the middle (Kubiak) to the bottom (Players). There's a sense of "Gosh darn, we're gettin' our stuff together and we'll get there soon! Just hold on, everybody! We're a'comin..."

Grates on some people's nerves.

Gotta say, that's a compelling argument.

(Tommy 11 lines :D)
 
How do we know they haven't been winning those bidding wars though? After all, it is the guys they think will help them. To my knowledge, the only guys that we know they lost out on in bidding wars were Orlando Pace (if he was even seriously thinking about coming here) & Bodden; 1 wasn't nearly the player he once was & the other tore up his knee before the season started so...

I don't think we lost the bidding war for Pace, I think he stayed with the Rams, for less money.

Same thing with David Givens. He's a hometown kid, but went to the Titans for less money.

I don't know about Bodden, but I don't think he ever wanted to leave NE.
 
Honestly, I think that if the Texans were offering all these players they would make it known.

I don't recall them being super secretive when bringing in Bodden last year...

I believe that was because Bodden wanted to dance.... with NE.

Just like Atogwe went to Washington recently. Smith might have called up Atogwe's agent the moment he was on the market. If his agent says Atogwe has no interest whatsoever, then there is no reason to go further, or publicize anything.

They aren't supposed to do it, but I'm sure agents already know what teams are interested. Atogwe probably knew the Redskins would make an offer, the Colts, the Ravens, Miami, Kansas City, Houston, and Arizona would be making a call. Atogwe could have said, "Take Houston & Arizona off the list." & that would be that.
 
What CnD said - we will never know their deeds in all likelihood. And yes there are plenty of "excuses" or reasons for not getting players. You are willing to pay $3 mil and someone else offers $8 mil in stupid money. The player wants the entire contract guaranteed. The player just doesn't like Houston. All of the player's family lives in Florida and Miami makes an offer. It's Innegan and he doesn't want AJ to punk him in practice every day. Whatever. There are lots of things beyond a team's control.

Agreed

And these things seem to happen to BoB,Rick and Gary more often than most teams.

They seem to have the ring of excuses.

Look the Texans are the 10th most profitable sports franchise in the world. If they want to sign somebody they can. There was no salary cap last yr and there may not be one this yr. They chose not to wade off deep into the FA pool last yr and the result when combined with a terrible draft was 6-10. If BoB,Rick and Gary choose to go the same route you can expect 6-10 or worse next yr too.

The Texans have to add 3-4 impact players on defense. Either through the draft/FA or a combination of the 2.

Keeping cap room open for FA's is why I was against resigning OD.
 
I believe that was because Bodden wanted to dance.... with NE.

Just like Atogwe went to Washington recently. Smith might have called up Atogwe's agent the moment he was on the market. If his agent says Atogwe has no interest whatsoever, then there is no reason to go further, or publicize anything.

They aren't supposed to do it, but I'm sure agents already know what teams are interested. Atogwe probably knew the Redskins would make an offer, the Colts, the Ravens, Miami, Kansas City, Houston, and Arizona would be making a call. Atogwe could have said, "Take Houston & Arizona off the list." & that would be that.

Possible

Or maybe BoB,Rick and Gary didn't make a call to his agent.

If Rick and Gary cant get players they need to come and play for them. Especially if the Texans offer top $$$$ (which I doubt) they should be fired. After all Atogwe signed with the Redskins they are picking 1 spot ahead of the Texans in the draft. So onviously winning and losing had nothing to do with Atogwe signing with the Redskins. Or not signing with the Texans.

This is just SOS different yr. Spin it BoB spin it.
 
Last edited:
Bottom line is most people on this MB think other HC/GM's are available that would be a major upgrade Over Rick and Gary.

BoB doesn't think that way and why should he? He isn't feeling it in his wallet. So what we on this MB think should happen to improve the Texans doesn't mean squat. BoB's attitude has poven this once again this offseason
 
Bottom line is most people on this MB think other HC/GM's are available that would be a major upgrade Over Rick and Gary.

BoB doesn't think that way and why should he? He isn't feeling it in his wallet. So what we on this MB think should happen to improve the Texans doesn't mean squat. BoB's attitude has poven this once again this offseason

Apparently I am most people!!

Someone that isn't as actually enlightened as you, "because, you are so much more enlightened than the rest of us amatuer fans", please fill us in!!

Share with us, your awesome wisdomness.. Share with us, how your awesomeness, would have had, not only brought a new Franchise to the City of Houston, but how YOU would be SOOOOOOO successfull....



I'm OUT!!!
 
Agreed

And these things seem to happen to BoB,Rick and Gary more often than most teams.

They seem to have the ring of excuses.

Look the Texans are the 10th most profitable sports franchise in the world. If they want to sign somebody they can. There was no salary cap last yr and there may not be one this yr. They chose not to wade off deep into the FA pool last yr and the result when combined with a terrible draft was 6-10. If BoB,Rick and Gary choose to go the same route you can expect 6-10 or worse next yr too.

The Texans have to add 3-4 impact players on defense. Either through the draft/FA or a combination of the 2.

Keeping cap room open for FA's is why I was against resigning OD.

Steel, a few thoughts:

1. Other than dumping big contracts, using the uncapped year as a means to spend was ill-advised, because NFL contracts almost neccessarily ascend or stay flat each year. There is no effective way to sign a player to a 6 year $50 mil contract that won't count significantly against the cap in years 2, 3, 4, 5, etc... In other words, overspending in 2010 would have a dramatic and negative affect on 2011 and 2012, once the cap was reinstated. Since the owners had determined to take something back in the CBA negotiations, smart teams prepared for the likelihood that the 2011 cap would be smaller than the 2009 cap was.

2. I think they should have been better prepared for the 2010 season, certainly. That being said, it was the weakest FA class ever due to the rule changes stemming from the uncapped season.

3. As we have discussed, I agree they need to be aggressive in FA and I also believe they will this year. If not, consider me part of the "we need major organizational changes" group.

4. I was with you regarding letting OD walk. However, they ended up getting a very good deal for him. So, I'm happy to see him back. OD only costs about $4 million per year against the cap and knocked off about $8 million in cap space letting ADavis, Wilson, Pollard go.
 
I don't think we lost the bidding war for Pace, I think he stayed with the Rams, for less money.

Same thing with David Givens. He's a hometown kid, but went to the Titans for less money.

I don't know about Bodden, but I don't think he ever wanted to leave NE.

I don't think any of those guys signed for less money. On Pace St. Louis matched the contract offer we made and 90% of the time that means a player stays with the team they are on. Bodden I believe they out bid us plus they had the present team advantage. Don't know on Givens. Do you have something that says he signed for less money? And why are we even talking Givens? Dude never started a full season in his career that ended five years ago.

1. Other than dumping big contracts, using the uncapped year as a means to spend was ill-advised, because NFL contracts almost neccessarily ascend or stay flat each year. There is no effective way to sign a player to a 6 year $50 mil contract that won't count significantly against the cap in years 2, 3, 4, 5, etc... In other words, overspending in 2010 would have a dramatic and negative affect on 2011 and 2012, once the cap was reinstated. Since the owners had determined to take something back in the CBA negotiations, smart teams prepared for the likelihood that the 2011 cap would be smaller than the 2009 cap was.

I agree with you on it being a poor free agent class because of the extended RFA rules. I disagree on the "no effective way" comment. I think the answer there is collusion among the owners to not use an easy loophole with the wink wink understanding it either wouldn't be used or would be closed by a new CBA. Under prior CBA rules there was a giant hole available. Instead of a signing bonus put the guaranteed money in a roster bonus during the uncapped year. Then it doesn't get prorated or applied to a capped year. I think the owners just agreed not to do it.
 
I don't think any of those guys signed for less money. On Pace St. Louis matched the contract offer we made and 90% of the time that means a player stays with the team they are on. Bodden I believe they out bid us plus they had the present team advantage. Don't know on Givens. Do you have something that says he signed for less money? And why are we even talking Givens? Dude never started a full season in his career that ended five years ago.

Pace, by the way, is a great example of why it is smart to be cautious. He would have cost us a significant cap #, multiple high round picks (essentially costing us Mario and probably M. Schaub, when you think about it). Then, by 2008, when the rest of the team was improving towards respectability, he would be physically broken down and worthless.
 
I agree with you on it being a poor free agent class because of the extended RFA rules. I disagree on the "no effective way" comment. I think the answer there is collusion among the owners to not use an easy loophole with the wink wink understanding it either wouldn't be used or would be closed by a new CBA. Under prior CBA rules there was a giant hole available. Instead of a signing bonus put the guaranteed money in a roster bonus during the uncapped year. Then it doesn't get prorated or applied to a capped year. I think the owners just agreed not to do it.

I thought about mentioning this issue: While that can be done, it becomes a major problem handling the player midway through his contract. If the contract is too frontloaded, the agent and/or player will begin crying about being underpaid as they start seeing that his salary is nowhere near the salaries of other players at his position. (believe me, I understand the counter argument but it doesn't change the fact that those deals become real headaches and teams shy away from them as a result)
 
I thought about mentioning this issue: While that can be done, it becomes a major problem handling the player midway through his contract. If the contract is too frontloaded, the agent and/or player will begin crying about being underpaid as they start seeing that his salary is nowhere near the salaries of other players at his position. (believe me, I understand the counter argument but it doesn't change the fact that those deals become real headaches and teams shy away from them as a result)

I think the reason teams shy away from them normally are the cap ramifications and that they don't get to prorate the roster bonus. The salaries work out the same regardless of whether you call it a roster bonus or signing bonus and the player walks away from the signing with the same bank account regardless of the name. But most teams aren't walking around with a spare $15 mil in cap space. The contrary example is when the Vikings signed Antoine Winfield. They had $10+ mil in extra cap space from credits for likely to be earned bonus carry over so they paid all his guaranteed money as a roster bonus. Last year the cap wasn't a consideration but these roster bonus deals still didn't happen. I think that spells collusion by the teams.
 
Apparently I am most people!!

Someone that isn't as actually enlightened as you, "because, you are so much more enlightened than the rest of us amatuer fans", please fill us in!!

Share with us, your awesome wisdomness.. Share with us, how your awesomeness, would have had, not only brought a new Franchise to the City of Houston, but how YOU would be SOOOOOOO successfull....

I've got no wisdom

I'm not trying to be the smartest guy in the room.

I just pointed out that BoB could hire better people if the wanted too. He doesn't want too. So that is just an example of him not putting winning as his #1 priority.

The BoB brought football back to Houston thing is tired and old. He brought losing football back to Houston. If that's good enough for you then that's where we differ. I'm all about putting a winning team on the field and would rather not have a team. Than have a losing team.

When I called for Gary to be fired after the 2009 season you said lets see how the 2010 season play out. We all know how that turned out. Yet Gary still has a job and fans will be treated to atleast 2-3 seasons of ineptitude.

Using the enlightened and you're the best amatuer fan card is cheap. Look it's not my fault you're boy Gary stinks at his job and BoB for whatever reason wont cut him loose. Thereby wasting 2/3 more seasons.

I'm glad you're happy to just have a fooball team in Houston. If I could get to that place maybe I would be more accepting of the loser organization BoB has brought to this team.

Resond to the post not the poster. The previous post stated nothing but fact and you try to divert attention from the post by attacking me.Oldest trick in the book. You should've been a lawyer. LOL
 
Last edited:
Steel, a few thoughts:

1. Other than dumping big contracts, using the uncapped year as a means to spend was ill-advised, because NFL contracts almost neccessarily ascend or stay flat each year. There is no effective way to sign a player to a 6 year $50 mil contract that won't count significantly against the cap in years 2, 3, 4, 5, etc... In other words, overspending in 2010 would have a dramatic and negative affect on 2011 and 2012, once the cap was reinstated. Since the owners had determined to take something back in the CBA negotiations, smart teams prepared for the likelihood that the 2011 cap would be smaller than the 2009 cap was.

2. I think they should have been better prepared for the 2010 season, certainly. That being said, it was the weakest FA class ever due to the rule changes stemming from the uncapped season.

3. As we have discussed, I agree they need to be aggressive in FA and I also believe they will this year. If not, consider me part of the "we need major organizational changes" group.

4. I was with you regarding letting OD walk. However, they ended up getting a very good deal for him. So, I'm happy to see him back. OD only costs about $4 million per year against the cap and knocked off about $8 million in cap space letting ADavis, Wilson, Pollard go.


You could've front loaded the contract so there wouldn't have been cap problems in the 2011 season. but you're right about 2010 being a crappy FA class. We are in agreement with the rest of the post.

The reason that the 2010 FA class was so poor that owners prepared for the uncapped yr. Some mght say it was a form of colusion
 
You could've front loaded the contract so there wouldn't have been cap problems in the 2011 season. but you're right about 2010 being a crappy FA class. We are in agreement with the rest of the post.

The reason that the 2011 FA class was so poor that owners prepared for the uncapped yr. Some mght say it was a form of colusion


I think you mean 2010. Not only was there collusion but McNair was in on it. McNair had made statements heading into the 2010 season that pretty well indicated he was going to make financial decisions with the CBA negotiations in mind, whether what the owners did fits the legal definition of collusion, I can not say... but, certainly, there was a coordinated effort of which McNair was a part of.

The 2011 FA class is the best one in many years. Given the fact they haven't been aggressive in FA in '08, '09, or '10 and given the results of '10, if they are unaggressive this eason in FA, I will agree with 90% of what anyone has said of Bob McNair.
 
I think you mean 2010. Not only was there collusion but McNair was in on it. McNair had made statements heading into the 2010 season that pretty well indicated he was going to make financial decisions with the CBA negotiations in mind, whether what the owners did fits the legal definition of collusion, I can not say... but, certainly, there was a coordinated effort of which McNair was a part of.

The 2011 FA class is the best one in many years. Given the fact they haven't been aggressive in FA in '08, '09, or '10 and given the results of '10, if they are unaggressive this eason in FA, I will agree with 90% of what anyone has said of Bob McNair.

Fixed

The Texans being agressive would be out of the morm.

You have many more inside sources than most.

I hope your sources are right.
 
Fixed

The Texans being agressive would be out of the morm.

You have many more inside sources than most.

I hope your sources are right.

If you mean by "inside sources"- hope... then, yes, I do. I only have one source that has told me to expect a busy FA period and there is about 3 degrees of separation between him and McNair/Smith.
 
As you people can see (yes, I said "you people") this is the different between Bob McNair saying this and, let's say, Robert kraft saying it.

Kraft says it = yeah, let's not get some bum!

McNair = OMG!! he's terrible! stfu!

You don't want to pull an Oakland and get another Terdell Sands. You want to get yourself that guy YOU KNOW makes you better. Not some marginal guy that can't help you.

We can be the Bucs from the early-to-mid 90s and get another Alvin Harper-type free agent. (wasn't that good, but paid him big money anyway)

I understand you clowns are starving for a winner...hell me too...but the fact that this is a 10 page thread shows where we are as a fan base.
 
As you people can see (yes, I said "you people") this is the different between Bob McNair saying this and, let's say, Robert kraft saying it.

Kraft says it = yeah, let's not get some bum!

McNair = OMG!! he's terrible! stfu!

You don't want to pull an Oakland and get another Terdell Sands. You want to get yourself that guy YOU KNOW makes you better. Not some marginal guy that can't help you.

We can be the Bucs from the early-to-mid 90s and get another Alvin Harper-type free agent. (wasn't that good, but paid him big money anyway)

I understand you clowns are starving for a winner...hell me too...but the fact that this is a 10 page thread shows where we are as a fan base.

Aren't you the one who (several months ago) was ragging out fans and saying how we essentially affect the team with whether we root for it or not?

This post seems eerily similar...for example:

but the fact that this is a 10 page thread shows where we are as a fan base.

What on God's green earth does that statement mean? I just don't even desire to take the time and sit here and try to come up with theories and have you reply to each one.

All I can figure is that you're unable to state a simple position and let it stand by itself, you'd rather throw in some caustic remarks to troll and get a flame war started.

I understand you clowns are starving for a winner

What's clown'ish about wanting a winner? Do we amuse you? Like a clown? I amuse you. You think I'm funny? :goodfellas:
 
this sums up my thoughts on the Texan's organization

turtle_snail.jpg
 
The Texans being the 10th most profitable franchise in the world doesen't do squat for me. It fattens Bob's wallet but it dosen't translate to a successful franchise on the FIELD. Maybe let's settle on being in the top 20 or 25 and spend some of that money on building up this team.

Apparently we have one of the highest payrolls too...why? Take out Schaub, AJ, Mario....why are we paying the other players so much money? Take a team like Indy, they have 10 or 12 high-profile players and their payroll is less?!? We're simply overpaying the player we have in relation to their talent, and this team was put together by Smith and Kubiak. Poor job.
 
Back
Top