How long were the Colts bad, before they finally figured it out?
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McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"
- Thread starter Lucky
- Start date
How long were the Colts bad, before they finally figured it out?
Specifically who & when were these top tier FAs out there, that we passed on?
'Cak's point, is that those were the best out there at the time. Not that the Texans thought they were the best out there, but the consensus. I don't know how he determined that, but that's his point.
Your point, is that the Texans failed to go after top tier FAs... who? & when?
You are aware, we're talking about 5 years right? For a team to go from joke to pretender to joke again in that time frame.... something has to have gone wrong.
How about we spend a ton on a bunch of FAs..... maybe a lot of the immaturity we saw that cost us games in 2008 & 2009 wouldn't have been an issue. Maybe we would have a solid base to launch from today, than the fertile soil of unproven potential we've been hanging our hopes on for the last 5 years.
You know I'm in for whatever.... but you have to admit some of the decisions this club has made leaves lots of room for criticism.
I do agree with this. There's been some good, some bad.
Nothing to see here. SOS
Yes BoB's loyal fanbase has a right to ? how he goes about business as usual after a decade of failure.
BoB is going to take a larger role in the CBA negociations. That's just great.
Yes BoB's loyal fanbase has a right to ? how he goes about business as usual after a decade of failure.
BoB is going to take a larger role in the CBA negociations. That's just great.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Good deal. I was wondering how the Texans were going to handle the lock-out, and I kinda' figured that McNair would take this position. Nice. He's a classy man, and this would not be a good PR move for a very PR sensitive organization. Besides, season ticket sales are still solid, so no need to panic.
As far as the rest of what he said...m'eh, nothing new under the sun. A tiger doesn't change it's stripes, and perpetual mediocrity is...well...perpetual.
At least it shows "stability," right?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
TK,
They've made many mistakes and I think I've called them out on most of them. They totally blew it going into 2009 when they ignored the safety position and relied on John Busing, Nick Ferguson, and D.Barber.
I'm just pointing out that the Texans have showed a willingness to spend significant money on FAs, as they did with Antonio Smith and a big group before that. And, there is the reality that the FA market the past two seasons has been absolutely pathetic.
If they don't acquire a good, veteran CB and other significant veteran pieces this off-season, I will be outraged... and surprised.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
If they don't acquire a good (I fear the definition), veteran CB and other significant veteran pieces this off-season, the fans will be outraged... and the Texans FO will still act surprised.
That's great if you think the Texans will sign all three. You'll remind me the last time the Texans got more than one decent player at any one position in an offseason. Is Nnamdi better than any one of them? Sure he is, by a long shot.
Funny you should mention the Raiders - Did you happen to notice their passing defense rank? It's #2, we were #32 (We were #30 overall, they were #11)...tell me again how Nnamdi isn't making a difference?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
That's great if you think the Texans will sign all three. You'll remind me the last time the Texans got more than one decent player at any one position in an offseason. Is Nnamdi better than any one of them? Sure he is, by a long shot.
Funny you should mention the Raiders - Did you happen to notice their passing defense rank? It's #2, we were #32 (We were #30 overall, they were #11)...tell me again how Nnamdi isn't making a difference?
Show me the playoff appearences the Raiders had with Nnambi at CB. There is a 53 man roster. So, if one player (particularly other than QB) is eating up 10% of the entire salary cap (like Nnambi did his last two seasons in Oakland) then there is either a lack of talent on the team or there soon will be. In Oakland's case, they could afford him because they didn't have a QB to pay for, nor an Andre Johnson on the offense.
Show me the well-run organization that pays elite money for free agents....
Pittsburgh... no
New England... no
Indianapolis... no
In each example, their highest paid player is consistently their homegrown QB. Perhaps it is simply a coincidence. Let's look at the teams during the salary cap era that have frequently paid top dollar for the big name free agents:
Washington Redskins (how many of you guys wanted Haynesworth? be honest)
Dallas Cowboys (gross)
Oakland Raiders (double gross)
What is the example in the salary cap era of the NFL of a team outbidding the rest of the NFL for an elite FA and it worked out well?
Don't say Deion Sanders in 1994. Even though the cap had started, the ramifications of the cap had not hit teams nor the NFL. Focus on the last 10 years, or so. Let's list Superbowl Champs:
2010: Green Bay? they got Charles Woodson at a discount after a couple poor seasons
2009: New Orleans? Brees on a discount due to injured shoulder
2008: Pittsburgh?
2007: NYGiants?
2006: Indy?
2005: Pittsburgh?
2004: New England?
2003: New England?...
I'm really not seeing the argument for offering elite money at a FA, especially when the talent pool is so rich. However, I see reasons not to:
San Fran: $80 million to Nate Clements
Washington: $100 million to Haynesworth
Dude, you don't know what the Texans are going to do anymore than I do. And I know squat. What McNair said can be interpreted in various ways because he was (unintentionally) talking out of both sides of his mouth.
"We're ready to move." Sounds good.
"We're not going to do something we think is crazy." Well, what are you going to do?
"...most of our dollars go to keeping our players..." So by "ready to move" you mean jogging in place?
That's my point. Just do it, Bob. Your talk is worthless. Less than worthless. Do something.
The teams with the best coaches and front offices. Well, the Texans don't have either. So buying a championship isn't somthing that should be dismissed out of hand.
That was as honest examination of the Texans as I've seen. McNair seems to copycat his way around the game. Because he doesn't understand it. That's why I would like to see and hear less from him. McNair needs a real football guy running this organization. Not a 10 year novice who seemingly will never get it.
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OK. This is an honest question. What is the last free agent (other than one of the troubled players like vick) to go to a team and be the reason for their turnaround?
I'm not saying there haven't been and i'm sure that a few can rattle off 10 in a second but I don't think it happens often. I'd almost be willing to bet that the teams that have spent the most money in free agency over the last 5 years have very few playoff appearances between them. I have no stat to back that up (shame on me) but the first one that wants to take me up on it... $10 donation to the board?
Even the "can't miss" FA's seem to not work out very well.
Mike
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I think we all want the same thing and recognize many of the same problems. The issue seems to come down to "posture". For me, I want to be hopeful and optimistic not resentful and bitter. I do get what has led people to become resentful. I think the frustration and resentment, though, as led some of you to conclude/assume the worst about every item presented you regarding McNair.
For instance, some have concluded he doesn't care about winning and is only looking to make money. I don't see evidence of that motivation. Two clubs that do operate that way are: Cincinnati and Washington. Mike Brown lowballs every football player and every employee on the team and spends near the bottom of the league every season. Dan Snyder rings every single penny out of the Redskin fanbase by means of one despicable act after another, including suing old ladies too poor to renew their season tickets (literally true). These are not the business practices of Bob McNair. McNair also permits tailgating at the stadium and has kept the ticket and parking prices relatively low despite demand exceeding the supply of tickets every single season. The Texans are also consistently in the top half of the league spending on player salaries. They also carry a large coaching staff and a large scouting department.
There are many reasons for the Texans lack of success and I would blame McNair for some of them... I would also attribute some of the failures simply to circumstances beyond anyone's control. Just like Robert Kraft needed a series of fortunate events to begin his success in New England: Bledsoe injury, referee robbing the Raiders via replay, clutching field goal kicking, Parcells and Belicheck having a lovers' quarrel, etc... Bob McNair has not had such events. Instead, he has had: Hurricane Ike, Rosencopter, Kris Brown meltdown, and the Colts rolling over for the Jets in 2009.
For instance, some have concluded he doesn't care about winning and is only looking to make money. I don't see evidence of that motivation. Two clubs that do operate that way are: Cincinnati and Washington. Mike Brown lowballs every football player and every employee on the team and spends near the bottom of the league every season. Dan Snyder rings every single penny out of the Redskin fanbase by means of one despicable act after another, including suing old ladies too poor to renew their season tickets (literally true). These are not the business practices of Bob McNair. McNair also permits tailgating at the stadium and has kept the ticket and parking prices relatively low despite demand exceeding the supply of tickets every single season. The Texans are also consistently in the top half of the league spending on player salaries. They also carry a large coaching staff and a large scouting department.
There are many reasons for the Texans lack of success and I would blame McNair for some of them... I would also attribute some of the failures simply to circumstances beyond anyone's control. Just like Robert Kraft needed a series of fortunate events to begin his success in New England: Bledsoe injury, referee robbing the Raiders via replay, clutching field goal kicking, Parcells and Belicheck having a lovers' quarrel, etc... Bob McNair has not had such events. Instead, he has had: Hurricane Ike, Rosencopter, Kris Brown meltdown, and the Colts rolling over for the Jets in 2009.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The problem is that "classy" does not not necessarily translate into "well-run." Well-run organizations have people at the top that can consistently make good decisions. If good decisions are not made, paying or not paying elite money doesn't make a flip of difference in the end result.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
My point exactly. It takes 2 to tango & short of offering these guys an outrageous contract, there is absolutely NO REASON why any of the top guys would want to come here. & i for 1 don't want Mcnair to become the Dan Snyder of the south....or the Al Davis of the South for that matter.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
The above bolded shows me that you just spew rhetoric and pay attention to nothing that is reality. Name the last big time free agent Dallas brought in?Seriously. TO didn't break the bank and was one guy. Deion was in 1995. Leonard Davis is the only other guys and he worked out...so 3. Besides that they have barely been involved in Free Agency over the years unless Igor O is a big splash along with Keith Brooking. They have used older, cheaper guys to help out. Last year, uncapped...Montrae Holland. You can babble all you want about who does it right but the teams you keep naming have the right people in place to make it work while this team has people you adore but are the wrong people so far. Please stop repeating catch phrases and actually look at reality. Don't count Deion...why because 2 teams signing the top cover corner helped them win SBs? Look at the names on these lists...do any scream...bargain, second tier guy? No. A majority were top guys.
http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/story?id=09000d5d80852164&template=with-video&confirm=true
That list was until 2008. Adding in the past years...Schefters Top 5 are Brees, Reggie White, Deion, Plaxico, Curtis Martin.
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So, do you really believe:
A) Aso couldn't help the Texans overall, after all, our Offense has struggled without him.
B) You're already certain that the future salary cap wouldn't permit the Texans to sign him
C) That the Texans can't find space for the one of the best CBs in football.
D) That the Texans will suddenly be forced to dump all their most talented players if they sign him.
Riiiight
I'm not asking the Texans to pay him 25mil/yr. I'm asking the Texans to 'be competitive' in the bidding.
To question #1 - When was the last time that a guy, arguable one of the top 3 guys at his position was available in FA? One could almost argue for Peppers last year and he went to a playoff team.Texanmike said:
...and to continue the point, the Bears were probably the biggest in the FA market last year. They went into the Playoffs as a #2 seed.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Brees. Super Bowl. Thank you and good night.
I think you guys are confusing 2 things...1) Top FAs for a given year and 2) Top Players in the league. If you look at FA's history, guys like Reggie White, Deion, they have made the difference. Top players. Just because the top DB in a given year is rated #1 doesn't make him the top guy. Right now you have a guy who is considered one of the 2 tops at his position and who can make a teams weakness a strength.
GP
Go Texans!
We never even gave Brees a look, IIRC. Not even a LOOK.
For every Arian Foster on this team, there's 25 Drew Brees-type players out there that the Texans just somehow aren't interested in.
Here's a quote by dalemurphy I'd like to address, as well:
Yes, dale, the problem has been with implementation. By the way, who "implements" things around the Texans organization? A combination of guys, namely Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak--The two chief "implementators" of the Texans.
And who retained those two guys, dale? Yes, it was the owner. Bob McNair.
And this, IMO, is why people are just dead dog tired of whatever comes from McNair's mouth. We get it already: He's going to say what we want to hear, what seems "applaudible," and then grab your ankles and hold on for the probing maneuver.
Here's what's going to happen, IMO: We're going to have a serious sit-down with Aso...and he's going to use us to up the bidding war amongst the teams he REALLY wants to play for. Happens every time, and it happens because the guys who are "implementing" things have proven they can't get to the big game. To the Big Show. These players want the payday, and they want the ring(s) too. It's a package deal, and they're going to use us to get to those better teams who have better implementators than we do.
Therefore, Bob has a stigma to overcome. A stigma he himself created by not being smarter about the football side of operations. His own damn fault, and we're paying for it on our end. We get to sit and watch a guy try to copycat and pussyfoot his way around building a real team in the NFL.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Generally agree with you that Dallas is not that big a FA player and this is not a free agent but they made a huge deal (and mistake) to get Roy Williams.
How is that different than what McNair said? Odds are we will never know the various offers made.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
They got Brres at a discount because of his serious shoulder injury that nobody knew he could recover from. I believe the deal was similar to the deal the Texans signed Schaub to.
Again, going back to Reggie White and Deion isn't an honest argument. We're dealing with the salary cap now. An NFL team can't operate like the NY Yankees and be successful. Of course, all things being equal, Nnambi would help this team. However, if you pay for him, there is the reality that the team will be unable to pay for others.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
True on Brees...I was just answering the question on who has made an impact
But honestly would you rather have that money pay for 3 guys that have done pretty well but you aren't sure what you are getting or would you rather have one of the top 2 shut down guys in the league, have the draft, have Wade added and have the offense and take your shot? I'll take the latter any day of the week.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Mike, You are right that the Cowboys haven't been incredibly active the past few years in the free agent market. However, their philosophy is what I am referencing. As ICak pointed out, it sometimes shows up in trades. Their philosophy is that a star player, at almost any cost, is good for the team. Here are some examples:
- traded 2 1st round picks to get Joey Galloway
- traded a 1st and 3rd round pick to get Roy Williams
- signed T.O. to a large deal
- signed Leonard Davis to a $50 million deal to play RG
all of those deals are examples of overvaluing a single player. I believe that is a failed philosophy in today's NFL. McNair believes that as well. I agree with him. Agreeing with McNair in one area, doesn't mean I agree with everything he has done/believes. I prefer to support/applaud him when we are in agreement and be critical in the areas where I believe he is wrong. Some of you have determined to criticize him about everything he says/does, regardless, because you are disappointed with the results.
I'll ask again: how many of you that want the Texans to bid seriously for Nnambi also wanted the Texans to bid high for Haynesworth? Come on. Be honest.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Roy Williams....(Throw up Smilie)(Jerry palm)
But back to them real quick. It really is a misconception. Jerry besides those 3 I named really has been pretty cheap and low key when it comes to FA. Especially the last 5-10 years. He ties up his money in his own players and tries to fill in gaps. Disappointing at times because there have been a few guys that I think could have been key leader/role guys that have been missed over the years.
Agree on Brees being a chance but he still had done pretty well with the Chargers. The injury was the big question.
Again, I'm not saying EVERY guy works out. I'm just sorting by Top Players vs Top FAs. Many top players have made an impact. Even if you look at pre-free agency how fast did Dallas's D in the SB years become better when Haley came on? Impact guys in their prime can give a sense of hope, some swagger and some more confidence in the guys around them. More so than say a Jaques Reeves.
I think this may have been directed at me and I answered some above. Trades are different but Galloway was a need. Did it hit. No. Roy Williams either. But Davis has played well and worked out and TO wasn't a huge deal...3 years, 25 million. Not alot for the production they got. They got headaches too but a little over 8 mill a year for a top WR...I'll take it. So basically they still haven't made that many splashes in what..18 years. And honestly, I'd rather have a guy win a SB with Deion, do pretty well with TO and Davis and miss large on Roy and Galloway and have something to show than follow a course that has failed so far. Jerry sucks at GM many times but he also hits sometimes and overall I know he wants it.
Why it's not your $$$$. Unless you're BoB.
I really dont care if he signs FA's or not. I just wanta great product on the field and so far for a decade under McNairs leadership the Texans have = success at the bank and fail on the field.
I dont understand why a fan wouldn't want his owner to bring in the best players in FA. Because teams that have the best talent usually win.
Why wouldn't you want an owner who like Snyder who altough he hasn't been successful puts his $$$$ where his mouth is, Unlike BoB who for the last 3 yrs has been saying this is a playoff team. But when they fail to achieve what was his stated goal. He not only doesn't fire his GM and HC. He re-ups them. Things like this make me ? his comittment to winning.
GP
Go Texans!
And that's why I'd be Ok with shopping Mario, to dump the impending BIG contract he's going to command.
In addition, I would have let Owen Daniels go. I don't want any back-and-forth wars over this issue either. Let me be clear: I think the world of OD. He is a key cog in the offense, no doubt. But we're at a point, IMO, where we have to decide what parts are essential and which parts are luxuries. IMO, the serious weapons of Schaub, Foster, Ward, Tate (hopefully), AJ, and the relatively adequate supporting role players of Dreesen/Graham/Casey/Walter/DA/JJ, I think OD is someone we could have afforded to lose.
Trading Mario Williams, and I'm bracing for the flood of heckling that will ensue from this theory here, gets us potentially another defensive line player who fits a 3-4 better. It might even get us a draft pick or two. And it rids us of the impending mammoth-sized deal he's going to want in order to stay on the sucky Texans team for perhapd the remainder of his career.
Those are two players, IMO, who can leave here and gain us a Pro Bowl caliber CB and a replacement player or two on the d-line (and draft picks).
Heck, we should have (or "could have," might be the better term) tried to sign and trade OD. The tender on him was going to be too high, but we could have packaged him appropriately for perhaps a lower draft pick or two. By grabbing a few extra draft picks, you then parlay THOSE extra picks by packaging them and trading up with a team on draft day.
At the end of the day, we are not seeing anything CREATIVE or DYNAMIC by McNair. It seems to be the standard to secure something that's not going to rock the boat, and then hold onto it for dear life as if the whole space-time continuum might be thrown completely off if we did.
Stability and comfort are ruling the day. Bob is convinced that it's "baby steps" that will win the race. This isn't a 401K, it's 16 games and then hopefully three more wins for the ring. His whole ideology is trickling down through everything, upon the "implementators" and to then to the players themselves. All of them are convinced that we'll have another game to do better, and another season to get there. It's been drilled into their subconscious by virtue of the big man himself.
Thus, it will take the most perfect storm for this team to overcome the genetic code set forth by its owner. This is why few people on here are hopeful, and why those same people aren't playing along with what Bob says. Lucky's assertion that Bob should be quiet is the most prudent thing that's been said on here thus far.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Look, I would be excited if the Texans signed Nnambi. How could I not be? He's very good. But, I think the smartest approaching, looking at this free agent market, is to target some guys below him. Personally, I think Johnathan Joseph and Brandon Carr have a good chance to be better than Nnambi over the next 5 years, simply because of their age and the fact that they are quite gifted and have proven to be very good.
With the Texans fortunes, I would be terrified Nnambi would blow out a knee in training camp and be lost for the season. While that is not a good argument for not signing a draft pick, it does touch on the realities of the NFL. With the realities of injuries, it is often better to strengthen depth and add 3 or 4 talented players to a team rather than grab one, single player in hopes that his presence creates a chain reaction for the rest of the defense... what happens when he gets hurt?
BINGO. We can debate FA signings until we are blue in the face, but unless we have great people at GM and HC, the organization will continue to flounder in it's mediocrity.
huh?I wonder about your NFL knowledge sometimes. You do realize that Bob Kraft bought the team in 1994 and the team was in Super Bowl XXXI a few years later? How is that "a series of fortunate events to begin his success in New England"??? Dude's team was in the playoffs FOUR times before he hired Bill Belichick.
Kraft fired Pete Carroll after going to the playoffs for two seaons. He fired him after an 8-8 season!!! How the heck do you even try to compare this owner to McNair, whose embracing of mediocrity is the exact opposite? Kraft never would have extended Kubiak's contract, hired a noob GM, and then kept them after regressing and no playoff appearances!
There is absolutely no valid comparison between the Patriots and Texans or Robert Kraft and Bob McNair. I find the subject to be goofy, to put it politely.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
GP, you make good arguments. I just don't agree with a lot of them. LOL.
I was on board with letting OD go, for sure, but I think they ended up getting him for excellent value. So, I'm on board for keeping him now. I would certainly be interested in trading Mario. After all, he's the second highest paid player on the team but he's not even the best DE (that's Antonio Smith, by the way).. Given the CBA issues, though, it is very unlikely he can be dealt before this season. Any deal would almost have to include draft picks due to his value and the difficulty of trading multiple players under contract (due to salary cap ramifications). Even if we trade Mario before the season, he would still count over $5 million against this year's cap because of his signing bonus. With jobs on the line, the Texans won't be shopping Mario for 2012 draft picks. So, he's not going anywhere.
I tend to agree with you that the organizational structure is flawed. I'm just more hopeful about things changing. As a matter of a fact, I'm convinced they determined after this season to be more aggressive in FA. It really sucks that the CBA haulted FA or we would already know if I was right or wrong.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
BINGO. We can debate FA signings until we are blue in the face, but unless we have great people at GM and HC, the organization will continue to flounder in it's mediocrity.
I wonder about your NFL knowledge sometimes. You do realize that Bob Kraft bought the team in 1994 and the team was in Super Bowl XXXI a few years later? How is that "a series of fortunate events to begin his success in New England"??? Dude's team was in the playoffs FOUR times before he hired Bill Belichick.
Kraft fired Pete Carroll after going to the playoffs for two seaons. He fired him after an 8-8 season!!! How the heck do you even try to compare this owner to McNair, whose embracing of mediocrity is the exact opposite? Kraft never would have extended Kubiak's contract, hired a noob GM, and then kept them after regressing and no playoff appearances!
There is absolutely no valid comparison between the Patriots and Texans or Robert Kraft and Bob McNair. I find the subject to be goofy, to put it politely.
I wasn't comparing McNair to Kraft. come on! I was just making the point that variables beyone anyone's control help shape history. Kraft wouldn't be seen in the same light as he is if not for a series of rather extraordinary events. That doesn't mean I don't think he's an excellent owner or that I think McNair would be equally successful not given those variables.
Bullpoop. Kraft hired the best people he could find and held them accountable. Your previous statement reveals ignorance about him as an owner. He was successful before those "rather extraordinary events" as you refer to them.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I did not say he was unsuccessful, or even hint at that. If not for those series of events, I doubt, though, people would see the Patriots as the premier NFL franchise.
What would happen to the Pats' and Tom Brady if the officials hadn't stolen that playoff game away from Oakland. If Brady fumbled the playoffs away and never led the game-tying and game-winning drive... and, if Adam Vinateri had not made those two impossible kicks because he was not put in position to do so... and, therefore did not kick a 48yd field goal in the Superbowl to win the game (because he wasn't there)... Are you still confident the Patroits would have been to 3 other Superbowls and Tom Brady would be a sure-fire HOF QB? I don't know what would've happened.
Brady, Belicheck, Polian, Vinateri, Kraft all deserve credit for what they've done. But, to deny that some of their success resulted from things beyond their control, is naive (to say the least).
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
They were in the AFC Championship Game. I'm pretty sure they would have continued their next seasons as a top team with top management, coaches and players and probably had SB success. I mean you could play this game all day. What is Jackie Smith hadn't have dropped the TD from Staubach..would they then be the team of the 70s. The Tuck Rule sucks but it was the rule. I hate what if games because it allows people to imagine 5 years of the Texans being a few plays from yearly playoff players.
Also "things beyond their control" do not include "making" kicks your deem impossible, leading game winning drives or winning SBs. Those are talent and skill. The Tuck Rule might have been out of their hands but they were still in the AFC Championship driving.
I get what you're saying.
But you cant live in the fear of what ifs.
to be successful in any business (except the NFL) you have to take some chances.
Unless you've done some insider trading with your Enron stocks and there's still the chance you could get caught.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
1st- It wasn't the AFC Championship game. It was the divisional round game.
2nd- They didn't make the playoffs the next season. How would the team, organization feel about Tom Brady if he'd never won a playoff game, fumbled one away, and had the struggles that he did have the following season?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I agree. But, I think there is a prudent way of doing it. I don't think it is most prudent to swing for home runs like Dave Kingman. I'd rather see a more thoughtful approach. That being said, they have definitely made some mistakes with inactivity in FA the past few seasons. I just don't agree that the correction to make would be to spend $100 million on a 30 year old CB.
Check out GP's post from above.
There are ways to open up cap room to sign the best players if you want to.
Look at the Jets, they've been major players in FA for the last 3yrs. Because they know how to manage the cap.
Not coincidently they've made it to the AFC championship game 2 yrs in a row.
They were at the same starting point as the Texans 3 yrs ago. Maybe even worse because they didn't have a QB. This is an example of how agressive management can improve your team. It's also something BoB is either incapable or unwilling to learn.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Even better. So they won that game, beat the Steelers and then beat the Greatest show on turf. That isn't flukey or luck. It is a what if scenario in your head. They still had the players and organization in place the next years. Sorry but this is assinine to even think this way. It is exactly how people get 6-10 teams into the playoffs. What if Franco Harris didn't catch that ball out of midair or it was called incomplete?What if Renfro was said to have both feet down?What if the Seahawks didn't have 10 unfortunate calls against them in the SB? It didn't happen and Kraft didn't luck into his string of SBs.
And by the way, the missed the playoffs at 9-7 and then ripped off 14-2, 14-2, 10-6, 12-4, 16-0. All that would not have disappeared in this magic scenario. Just like Aso wouldn't get hurt because he is a Texan so we should sign 3 Jaques Reeves clones.
Look, I never disputed your point that the Patriots benefited from some great luck. But, that has been the case throughout NFL history. The "Immaculate Reception" began a run of four championships for the Steelers in the '70's, "The Catch" for the 49ers runs in the '80's, and so on. We can always find examples of good luck for most successful teams. I never disputed that idea, so save your naive blast for those that argue against that specific point (which wasn't your original point, btw).
I was merely taking you to task for a blatant incorrect statement. YOU said: "Robert Kraft needed a series of fortunate events to begin his success in New England".
Then you say that you "did not say he was unsuccessful, or even hint at that."
Which is it? You can't have it both ways. Your statements contradict each other.
Kraft was clearly successful well before the events that you refer to in your original statement. History supports the fact that he was already successful before those "series of fortunate events".
Quit the straw man argument. I'm not going to be distracted by it.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Exactly right. So the best thing to do would be to shut his yap, especially when fans are pissed about the work stoppage. When anything you say will foster resentment, say nothing. Seems logical to me.
GP
Go Texans!
I see what youd did right there...LOL. Nicely done.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Agreed! I'm so frustrated with the entire NFL right now...they can all kiss my ass. Every last one of them should shut the hell up and get busy on an actual CBA rather than spewing garbage. Do they actually think we're going to believe them?! And, if I hear any of them, players or owners, speak of "it's about the fans" I'm going to mentally *****-slap them and dislike them instantaneously
HOU-TEX random rant concluded
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He fired him after three seasons because Carroll was handed a team that had been in the SB and it got worse each year under Carroll's coaching. So no that isn't similar to Kubiak's situation at all. Of course that makes projections of what Kraft would have done based on those events unrealistic as well.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Nothing you say can be taken seriously after the bolded..
Hyperbole at its finest....really 25 drew brees types... every year? really? Furthermore, is it really the Texans FO fault that players use them as a team to help up the ante for teams they want to play for? If anything that makes the Texans FO look better b/c what it means is that they are fielding competitive offers to these guys.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
But what you're not understanding is that putting your money where your mouth is & fielding a competitive product are by & large independent of each other. Spending tons of money doesn't necessarily = fielding a competitive product on the field & vice versa. As many of us have shown, the most successful teams over the last 10 years (Patriots, Colts, Steelers) have been organization that didn't spend tons of money in FA or land a pepper-esque FA. Stop linking the 2 together as if 1 equals the other.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
You still don't understand the concept. No one is linking them like spending = win. But there has been links in the past to spending on TOP football players and an upgrade on a team....guys that are tops at their position. Let's also not fool ourselves that these teams don't spend money or make moves...Pats trade for Moss. They just aren't afraid to let go of guys before their time is up and replace them. All of these things are foreign here. Again I'm not advocating outbidding everyone by 5 mil to grab Aso. I'm asking to compete for him and see if he bites. Be willing to move a million or so to get a top of the line star.