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McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"
- Thread starter Lucky
- Start date
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
He DID make that catch!
Completely agree!!
GP
Go Texans!
Did I say "every year"? No, I didn't. You said I did.
Yet you're the one saying that people will just read into McNair's comments whatever they wish. Pot meet kettle much?
As far as anyone believing everything I say...man, just give it a break already. This is a message board. There is truth, hyperbole, sarcasm, opinion, drunk incoherent rambling (I'm looking at you, Texan Bill) all intertwined with one another.
What we have to go on is this team's past, and the actions of the owner juxtaposed with his words. After nine years, what you hear (from Bob) and what you get (from Bob) are usually not the same thing.
(see, I'm trying to veer us from a one-on-one spat with each other and back to the main topic)
We're not going to add an impact player. We're going to add a mystery meat guy who they think Wade or Gary can "coach up." Both these coaches said they could make do with what they were given by McNair, there'll be no top-flight players headed this way unless said players are looking for Easy Street in terms of just cashing checks with no real promise of getting a ring.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You may not HF, but some here do...see steelbtexan's post i responded to. To add to that point, people wouldn't be referencing the money Mcnair's making from the texans if they didn't think that the guy was being cheap in FA.
As for Moss, He was thought largely to be done when he went to NE, hardly a top FA on the order of acquiring a caliber player like Aso.
Look, I'm not saying that those teams didn't spend money in FA...they do/have. Their moves however have been similar to how the texans have made moves in FA though...patch player here, patch player there, no one really notable.
At the end of the day, No one outside of kirby really knows if they're fielding or at least prepared to field competing offers to these top guys. We're mainly just assuming b/c we haven't landed those guys & b/c we haven't won anything. As if, the player/agent don't have a role in all of this. As if it's simply a matter of fielding a competitive offer. There's so much more that goes into landing guys in FA....double that crap when it's a highly sought after FA. So in the end, you might not be saying outbid everyone by 5 mil, but that's what it takes to land these guys when you're a team with no history, no tradition & no recent success.
I mean really, would it make it any more tolerable to watch this team lose year in & out if we knew for a fact that they fielded competitive offers to the top guys in FA for the last 9 years? Odds are for most fans probably not.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I'll agree with this paragraph. I think early on with the facilities, city, newness etc they could woo some guys...I think as the years have added up and the losing has continued, I'm not sure getting guys here is easier and I'm not sure if McNair would outbid anyone if it got to that.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I certainly want them to talk to Aso but frankly I have concerns about the wisdom of it. Is he willing to take a pay cut from the absurd contract he has been playing under or is he going to want a raise? He has been making over 50% more than the CB franchise tag cost ($9.5 mil) and that number is elevated substantially by his contract. A reasonable approach to me seems to call up and offer a long term deal at franchise tag range numbers. But if he wants as much or more than he just got, $15 mil per year, I'd say thanks and hang up.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
You know what...that may be prudent but at least I'd applaud that effort. I'd might even offer 16 and then see who bids..maybe if your close debate higher. You could bring him in for talks. Try and convince him that he is the missing piece and that he has an O that can put up points if he does his part. You would at least like to see it. I actually think Cromartie would be worth it but I think we all know that guy isn't coming near Reliant with his background. I'd be highly surprised.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I think we're all on the same page with that. If Aso expresses interest i'm sure the texans FO would listen..as they did with schoebel. Where the departure is among fans is some believe pay him whatever he wants just get him here, while others have no issue with the FO hanging up if he's being ridiculous.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
chances are though HF, if they simply called him up & didn't like what they heard....you'd never hear of that being done & the perception would be that we never even inquired about him in the 1st place. Having said that, we know this place would be going bat s&*^ crazy.
gary
Hall of Fame
The Texans have multi needs on defense which is why they should not break the bank for any one player.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I just think that is too much money or more importantly (since it isn't my money) too high a percentage of the salary cap (anticipating there will be one again) for any player other than the QB and even then only for an ultra elite QB. If he won't see he has been dramatically over payed by a senile owner I would rather see them sign Brent Grimes and Eric Weddle (and probably still save money).
I never said different.
I stated what happened. You stated why it happened.
I never said it was similar to Kubiak's situation, as I wasn't comparing coaches. I was making a point about owners and that bringing Kraft into a discussion about McNair is just illogical. Even by your own point, Kraft holds his staff accountable for getting worse, which is the complete opposite of our owner. Spin it however you want, but it doesn't change that simple fact.
My entire point was that Dale was simply wrong in trying to attribute Kraft's success to a "series of fortunate events to begin his success in New England". If Dale cannot admit he misspoke, then he can just be a know-it-all in his own mind, because I know better as a fan of NFL history.
Just offer Aso a controling share of the Texans, Rockets and Astros... and a Yao Ming autograph. That should get him here.
Mike
Mike
gary
Hall of Fame
Yao Ming might even give him a nice meal.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I have a solution: A CBA is reached and the Texans win 12 games this season. Then, we all get together for some serious tailgating for our first home divisional playoff game. Keep that second or third Sunday in January. I'll buy the first beer for each one of you. We'll be in an RV in the orange lot. Just PM your commitment to attend. I'll take care of the food, too. See you in 10 months!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yup and it makes a difference.
Never said you did. I was adding detail.
Well I would say you are the one spinning here if you try to act like you know what Kraft would have done with Kubiak. We agree Carroll and Kubiak came into totally dissimilar situations. But somehow you want to project that an owner who put up with three progressively worse years of results would have been quicker on the draw when this is Kubiak's first year of regression. Look at that again 3 progressively worse years v. 1 year of regression. That's not an argument for Kubiak not being fired so don't confuse that.
Dale can speak to the fortunate events stuff.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I know you aren't saying what Kubiak has done is commendable or that he should still be here but 5 years of no playoffs and 1 regression from .500 type ball is not the same as winning records that bottom out at .500. At least not to me. They are different situations but I have a hard time believing that any other owner would have kept what the Texans have considering that it has only happened once in the modern era(corrected that from before)
I'll move along from that. Wish the CBA would get signed.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I know you aren't saying what Kubiak has done is commendable or that he should still be here but 5 years of no playoffs and 1 regression from .500 type ball is not the same as winning records that bottom out at .500. At least not to me. They are different situations but I have a hard time believing that any other owner would have kept what the Texans have considering that it has only happened once in the modern era(corrected that from before)
I'll move along from that. Wish the CBA would get signed.
I hear you. Like not knowing who we talk to or what we offer on free agents (whenever that happens) we will never know what McNair would have done if there was a CBA in place either. The lack of one is a confounding factor in all this.
I do think Kraft's patience is being under appreciated. Yeah Carroll bottomed out at .500 but when you hand somebody the keys to a Ferrari you don't expect their lap times to get slower and slower such that Camaros are passing them. Carroll had no good years relative to when he took the team over. Clearly Kubiak's improvement has underwhelmed but until this year (actually even this year - they regressed but not to the prior level) it has been a decided improvement over what was turned over to him.
Based upon Kraft's modus operandi, I think it is fair to say that he would not have lived with five years of mediocre results from Kubiak.
Carroll won the division and won the first playoff game in his first year.
They went to the playoffs and lost his second season.
He was fired after 8-8 in his third season.
Based upon this history, to act like Kraft would have kept Kubiak after five years of mediocrity is just being obtuse.
Nobody knows exactly what he would have done, and I did not make that claim. But deductive reasoning from history can lead a person to believe one scenario is simply more plausible than the other. Do YOU honestly think Kraft would tolerate five years of 37-43 Kubiak?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
This season marks the first time in McNair's tenure that he has not removed a coach after the team took a step backwards in W-L record. And, had it not been for the CBA situation, I don't think he would have kept Kubiak... For those of you wanting a better coach, realize that all the top names remained on the sideline this off-season despite a number of job openings.
Do you think Kraft would've fired a coach who took over a 2-14 team and did the following: 6-10, 8-8, 8-8, 9-7? Maybe... but, I'm not sure.
gary
Hall of Fame
I bet he would have but that is not 100 percent certain no one can be that certain about firing someone.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You know me. I am willing to say "I don't know" and on this one I really don't think there is a sound prediction. I could easily see Kraft going either way particularly because of the CBA situation. Different time, place and circumstance.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hervoyel
BUENO!
The Texans doing something they think is crazy might actually be interesting.
I've been watching them do things they think make sense for nine years and that's been enough to convince me that they're either intentionally trying to suck for some reason or are run by blindfolded imbeciles taking instructions from a Ouija board in a dark room.
Go ahead Bob, try some crazy ****. What's the worst thing that could happen?
I've been watching them do things they think make sense for nine years and that's been enough to convince me that they're either intentionally trying to suck for some reason or are run by blindfolded imbeciles taking instructions from a Ouija board in a dark room.
Go ahead Bob, try some crazy ****. What's the worst thing that could happen?
What the New England Patriots do is trade players when they still have value and they can still get draft picks etc that will improve the team. We could do the same by trading Mario maybe? I say maybe because he may not have a lot of value, I am not sure. Correct me if I am wrong but I think this is his last year under contract. He may or may not perform well this year under the new scheme. I think he will be motivated this year because it is a contract year. If he is able physically is an ongoing question. Whatever happens this year I think now is the time to trade him IF he has value. If he does great this year are you willing to sign him to a HUGE contract and hope he has the motivation once he has more money. If he gets hurt again what is his value? If he is not suited to this defense what is his value to the Texans? Don't know the details on what we could expect to get for him if we do not resign him at the end of the season, but I would guess he is more valuble in a trade now. Just too many questions surrounding Mario. Just my opinion.
GP
Go Texans!
I'm with ya 100%, man.
Mario is Mario, and I won't sit here and say "he stinks" or anything foolish like that. He's been on a consistently bad defense his whole career here. I think we should get value for him NOW, unlike what we have done in the past--Which is to stick with a guy too long and then you get jack squat for them.
I do think that the Texans organization has fallen in love with the person, and not the player though. They fell in love with David Carr and kept him one more season than necessary. They fell in love with Dunta and kept him here one more season than necessary. And they're gonna' do the same thing with Mario Williams, except he's likely to get a big fat payday instead of exiting the doors of Reliant.
Why?
My theory is that it's a marketing decision. McNair has his "chosen ones" that he thinks adds credibility and marketability to his team. In place of good old fashioned WINNING, we have a LOSING team that needs its guys who stand out and serve as beacons of light in an otherwise dark and stormy night.
Plus, McNair has shown just an over-the-top preference for Do-Goody behavior. Let's all be one big, happy family and get through this together! He can't let go of what's not working, either out of arrogance/pride or plain old sentimentalism. Or both.
"We're not going to do anything crazy" is becoming a meme on this thread. I've enjoyed the images you guys have created thus far, btw. Very entertaining. But be careful...there are those who think you can't laugh at the Texans. Continue onward anyways, that's my advice. I'd be joining you, but my Macbook Pro laptop is down
and I have a thread in the Graphics and Tech Talk forum if anybody has a Mac laptop and can help me sort it out.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
All the things I've stated before but get laughed at for saying. I like Mario, but maybe trading him would help this team be better. Of course it will not happen because Mcnair knew he would sink or swim with Mario and because Wade said he could try some Bruce Smith things with Mario which means Mcnair will want to see if Mario can be better.
Yeah, like I said, nobody knows with 100% certainty.
But, we are always free to 'form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence',
you know - speculate.
GP
Go Texans!
Winning.
But we know what happened to Bledsoe after he left New England. There is no reason to believe he would have done any different in New England.
dalemurphy is saying had Bledsoe not got hurt, and they found Brady, who knows what could have happened.
They were successful with Bledsoe, but Bledsoe was never going to win the SB at that time (I believe he got pretty injury prone & shell shocked).
Brady may have disappeared into obscurity (I believe he was third on the depth chart) and maybe out of the league.
We don't know one way or the other. What we do know, is that two QBs got hurt before Brady took the field.
That wasn't an example of a well managed, hiring the best people kind of thing.
Same with Belichick..... I can't remember the specifics, but wasn't he supposed to go to the Jets????? but decided to go to New England instead?
Not because Kraft was the guy he wanted to work for, or because he offered more money, but because Belichick was upset about something or other?
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
That is a jacked up number of what ifs. Schaub may not be playing if it weren't for the Rosencopter. I mean this happens every season. The following seasons of Patriot success was not due to all of those things. Kraft was successful before that season. Those things happening were fortunate but EVERY year stuff happens where guys get hurt and other guys step up. Kraft has the right people in place and manages the team better than the McNair does the Texans. This isn't 9 degrees of Kevin Bacon where one team is lucky and has X,Y,Z happen to have their future set and the other is run the same but has bad luck. Brady was there because they drafted him.
This is just tiring.
GP
Go Texans!
What's interesting is that it appears there is a sector of people who think success isn't entirely or exclusively earned, but rather it's in conjunction with good fortune. Luck, good fortune, a series of circumstantial events. Fate.
This explains why some are a little bit more "chill" as it pertains to whether a coach should be fired or not.
I'm not saying that the Rabitt's Foot gang doesn't think Kubiak should have been fired--A lot of them have said that he should have been fired. But I think it explains their willingness to not get their panties in a bunch like the Soapers have over the deal. Too many factors involved, possibly, to say it was this or that (exclusively).
THEORY: Soapers think the end result is a sum total of the efforts of the people in charge of managing, planning, coaching, and playing the game of football. Rabbit Footers think that an element outside the control of man is linked to the end result (in addition to managing, planning, etc.).
This could explain why each side is entrenched against the other so often. On one side, there are those who think you can rise above and conquer any obstacle in your path--It's you vs. the world, find a way to adapt and overcome. On the other side of the aisle, there's a group who indeed values all of those ideals yet also thinks there's a certain ceiling you reach pertaining to the element of "What if Drew Bledsoe was never injured?"
My reasoning dictates that it was inevitable that Brady was going to get a shot. In the NFL, things seem to level themselves out pretty well. The NFL has always held intrugue for me because it's a place where everyone figures out fairly quickly who has the goods and who doesn't--The only squelching of talent seemingly arises either out of injury to the upward-trending athlete (Bo Jackson), trouble with the law (Burress), just flat out leaving the game altogether (Barry Sanders, Glen Coffe, etc.), or an owner and/or coach/GM who falls in love with the starter and doesn't have the good sense to see that the 2nd or 3rd string guy is the better option.
Even in the face of all those things I listed above, the best in the NFL seemingly find a way to rise to the top. One way or another, whether it's in camp, preseason games, injuries, a contract dispute and subsequent trading/releasing of the player, etc....all roads lead to the guy with the best talent getting his shot at some point or another.
To me, this renders the "What if Drew Bledsoe had never been injured" scenarios a bit of a moot point. What if Jimmy Johnson had never become a coach at all, what if he was a tire salesman instead? What if there wasn't an NFL at all? What if, what if, what if, etc. I think there is certainly something to the idea that a good bounce here, or a bad call by a ref there, can impact the end result.
I just think nothing of what I have seen from the Texans has shown me that they have a smidgen of ability to test the top tier of the NFL and truly challenge those teams in a one-on-one gameday situation for a chance at a SB ring. The offense? Maybe. Yet they still are a tricky group to rely upon when you look at 2010's efforts all season long.
I think we're a team that doesn't know how to deal with adversity and unfortunate bounces to the point of taking it by the tail and just throwing it out of the entire stadium. No killer instinct, IMO. No do-or-die persona, IMO. And I think that eminates from the top (McNair) to the middle (Kubiak) to the bottom (Players). There's a sense of "Gosh darn, we're gettin' our stuff together and we'll get there soon! Just hold on, everybody! We're a'comin..."
Grates on some people's nerves.
Brady was no. 2 on the roster when Bledsoe got hurt. Brady was drafted in 2000 and started in the 2001 season.
Don't forget Bledsoe played QB in the AFC Championship game that year when Brady got hurt, so I'm not sure about him being shell-shocked. He performed when called upon and they went to the Super Bowl as a result.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
For once i actually agree with you...mostly anyway. But any champion & near-champion for that matter will tell you that with all that talent & preparation you have to have some "lucky bounces" to get you through or that kill you. It's just a merely a matter of when that luck decides to present itself. How much of that factors into any given season depends.
There is absolutely no way you'll be able to convince me or anyone else that Eli Manning escaping from that sack & Tyree catching that ball on his frickin helmet was something they prepared for, or that Eli Manning & Tyree were just that good...Tyree's out of the league now & Eli Manning hasn't been able to duplicate that kind of end of season run since that year.
The 98' Vikings...everyone just knew they were going to the superbowl that year. Sure, ATL played them tough, but now their kicker, who hadn't missed all year was about to seal the deal with a 40 yd. chipshot...oh wait, he just missed though. Coincidentally the Vikings' best defensive player, Jon Randle, got knocked out of that game early. You don't think that Gary Anderson catching a case of the shanks and Jon Randle being sidelined early in that game wasn't some of the most timely luck ever for ATL ever?
Again, i'm not saying that teams win largely b/c of luck but, you catch my drift but lets not dismiss it all together.
All of that being said, the texans' issues aren't all attributed to luck or any 1 thing, rather a meld of 1-3 different things depending on how you want to look at it imo.
We wouldn't have Schaub at all if Vick had been arrested earlier!
Maybe I'm missing something, but i don't believe anyone has said anything to remotely infer that Kraft would have kept Kubiak after five years.
There is also nothing (presented in this thread anyway) to suggest he wouldn't have if he were inMcNair's specific situation.
I don't know what was going on in McNairs head, but just trying to postulate why he kept Kubiak, maybe McNair reset the clock when the Texans got to 8-8 in 2008.
What are the odds that Kubiak promised more than that in just three seasons (of course that would be considering he was not given a playoff team).
I can understand McNair giving Kubiak a pass for the first three years, just to get the team to a competitive state.
While not a play-off team, it could be argued that Kubiak coached a team as good as any team in the NFL since then, and failed. I think that is definitely comparable to Kraft firing Carroll after Three years, despite a play-off appearance.....
Only it hasn't been three years. 2011 would be three years with Kubiak coaching a team that should make the play-offs.
Again, not that I believe that is what happened, nor do I have inside info as to what McNair is thinking, I'm only saying it is plausible.
.
Yes, you are missing something.
Agreed
No, only one that matters. If Brady never started that year, the Patriots would not have 4 championships (or whatever they have).
And while they were successful prior to that, it's not like they weren't in thought of as the historically successful franchise we think of today. They didn't be log in the same conversation as the Steelers, or Packers, 49ers, or even Cowboys. They had several years of mediocrity themselves.
I take that back, it appears the Pats have known nothing but success sine The Kraft Group took ownership in 1994.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
I did look over one part of the article of Mcnair's quotes. When he said that they've identified who they believe will help them in FA and that they will go after those guys. So atleast he stated that.
Now my thing about that is, if you've identified them and you know they will help your team, now I need to see you go ahead and win the bidding war on those guys and get as many of them in as possible.
Now my thing about that is, if you've identified them and you know they will help your team, now I need to see you go ahead and win the bidding war on those guys and get as many of them in as possible.