GP
Go Texans!
this sums up my thoughts on the Texan's organization
I was thinking more along the lines of a glacier moving past the turtle.
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McNair: "We're not going to do something we think is crazy"
- Thread starter Lucky
- Start date
I was thinking more along the lines of a glacier moving past the turtle.
BoB, We're not going to do anything crazy:
Like doing everything possible to put a winning team on the field.
Yeah that's crazy alright. LOL
Like doing everything possible to put a winning team on the field.
Yeah that's crazy alright. LOL
buddyboy
Rookie
I don't know if I agree with all his points, but I agree that having over 10 pages on this is silly.
A sports owner (all of which usually say nonsensical things that you can't take seriously anyway) comes out and says, "we're not going to do anything crazy." We're not going to go out and be the Raiders. We're not going to go outbid ourselves since we're so gung ho on getting that one player. We're not going to paint ourselves into a corner by being overly desperate in our offseason.
Sounds to me either a) we should just take it as any other cliche statement made by the sports community, or b) be glad that the organization isn't losing their heads.
I understand the frustration with the FO. But the statement itself is something to rejoice about. If you have questions about whether the FO can deliver, that's another thing entirely, but for me, the statement that the Texans aren't going to do something crazy is a relief.
A decade of losing = it's time to do something crazy.
What BoB's been doing hasn't been working and will not work in the future.
What BoB's been doing hasn't been working and will not work in the future.
gary
Hall of Fame
If they are not going to over spend then fine but all I ask for is that they at least try to do something. Make a call or an offer or just come out and say we did this or that.
The Texans seem to hide their ineptitude with a CIA level of secrecy.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Bob: Hello, this is Bob McNair.
FA: Who?
Bob: Bob McNair. The owner of the Houston Texans.
FA: The Houston what?
Bob: Texans. Houston Texans.
FA: Oh. What is this call about?
Bob: Just inquiring about free agency stuff.
FA: What about it?
Bob: You don't really have interest in coming to Houston, do you?
FA: Not really.......unless the money is good.
Bob: I didn't think so. Thank you.
gary
Hall of Fame
Repped for a good laugh.
I've got a feeling this is how it goes for the Texans in FA. Except Rick carries BoB's water.
Ricks just happy to have a GM job. He's not going to tell BoB if you want win you're going to have to pay to get a FA like Peppers. Rick and Gary are yes men. As the last 5 yrs have proven out. BoB's koolaid salesmen still cant get around the fact that the Texans on the field product has = fail for almost been a decade and counting.
BoB is still learning on the job after a decade = LOL. But, But, But.... BoB is one of the leaders of the owners locking out the players. Yeah that should tell you where BoB's heart is.
That this thread exists at all shows where the Texans are as an organization.
Sincerely,
Lucky the Clown
At least the snail is on the right track.this sums up my thoughts on the Texan's organization
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
where we are as a fanbase? you know where we are as a fanbase. a decade of failures is where we are at. even the glorious parade-filled 9-7 season was a failure.
there is no problem with the fanbase. the problem is with the owner, the GM, and the head coach. they are all pathetic excuses for a front office...especially Rick and Gary. Bob doesn't know any better, he is just another billionaire who is clueless on what it takes to win. Even his horses suck. he is a LOSER.
But Rick and Gary are supposed to know how to run a team. They have and will continue to fail until they are FINALLY run out of town. Then we will have a few more years of Wade Phillips and then MAYBE Bob will just stfu and start turning business to competent people...not just Denver cronies of Kubiak and Rick Smith.
And if you still believe in these guys to turn things around...you are a glutton for punishment. These guys are flatlining failures and will never do squat in this league. Trust me on this, once Gary is fired and Rick is fired, they will not get another sniff. Gary would be a fine OC but is a joke of a HC and Rick Smith has been a failure just about universally. Just a clueless little guy who sits on Bob's lap and tells him what he wants to hear so he can stay gainfully employed.
Keep on dreaming, fans...but don't try and say the fanbase is the problem. That is sad and pathetic..almost as sad and pathetic as this franchise is.
Texans are a joke.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Second Honeymoon, errrrr Woodlands Doug 
!!
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I read a post like this and I genuinely do not understand why you are a Texans fan. I don't mean this in any sort of confrontational way. It just doesn't make sense to me. If you despise the owner, the GM, and the coach to this degree, why are you following them as closely as you do? It's March and you are choosing to go talk and read about this organization that you despise. It's not as if you grew up a fan of this organization, so it can't be about loyalty. I really don't get it. If, after all, you participate in fandom for entertainment purposes, I'm missing the hook for you.
I understand being frustrated with a team. I was outraged in 2005 and often booed the performance on the field. I was wholly disappointed and frustrated with much of last season. However, if you can't enjoy significant parts of the '07, '08, and '9 seasons and have no hope that anything will get better, what are you doing?
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
GP
Go Texans!
For me, "We're on the right track" and then "We're not going to do anything crazy" = Grab your ankles because it'll be more of what you're already used to. More of the same. Nothing dynamic.
Which is more "silly," btw: (A) A thread that's 10 pages long, or (B) A fellow message board fan calling other fans clowns and projecting this team's failures upon the condition of the so-called fan base?
I thought we all agreed money wasn't an issue for the top-tier free agents. Regardless what team they go to, they're going to get their money. Other than money, there are reasons that big name FAs end up in Miami, Pittsburgh, Greenbay, Indianapolis, & Kansas City.
We've discussed this before, but we don't have to understand what makes another a fan. That's really not relevant.
Not that I have to explain, but a big reason I am a Texan fan is because of the name in front. I have an affinity for anything that says "Houston". Probably because I am a Houstonian. That doesn't mean I have to like the job that Bob McNair, Gary Kubiak, and Rick Smith are doing. The Texans are bigger than them. They have to be for me to be a fan. When 2ndHM says "the Texans suck", I'm pretty sure he's referring to the job being done by the people at the top. And after 9 years, how can you really argue against his point?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I get frustration and disappointment. What SH was communicating is disdain. I do not understand supporting things that one hates. It just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not saying that he is objectively wrong to continue rooting for the Texans. I'm simply attempting to understand the appeal. To hold the owner/founder, along with his decision-makers, in such ill-regard and yet still spend significant time/money/care "rooting" for them simply defies logic. So, my question would be "how horrible a person would the owner/founder have to be in your estimation before you would cease consuming his product?". If I felt anywhere near the way that SH does about McNair I would be repelled from supporting his interests.
Maybe I'm odd, but if I were to make a list of things that I spend my free time and entertainment dollars on, the list will include only those things I enjoy. For instance, I don't ask my dentist for a root canal simply because I have $800 to spend and two hours of free time, nor because I'm wanting to support local businesses. That's crazy, right?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Considering Bob McNair is both owner and founder, I'm not sure how that is true. It is not as if, as a kid, you grew up rooting for the team and inherited them as an adult. There is no tradition with the Texans for most of us. We chose, using free will, to root for McNair's creation. The only reason Houston's name is attached is because Houston was the market McNair elected to target. If it is unsatisfying and hopeless, why not unchoose?
Let's be intellectually honest. Make a choice. Either be the victim or don't be. A victim has no power to make decisions to avoid his fate. Someone that hates Bob McNair, is miserable rooting for the Texans but continues to do so is a victim. These same victims, at the same time, also try and come accross as the enlightened elite: educating the ignorant masses on how they are being mistreated. I find that ironic. How enlighteded can one be if they choose to believe they are powerless to create change or break from the status quo, consciously continuing to suffer?
In the end, I think it is little more than temper tantrums and the hyperbolic hateful and hopeless speech is merely an adolescent coping mechanism. It's almost April... shouldn't it be time to move on? The season ended almost three months ago (four months ago for Texan playoff aspirations).
I'm sorry you don't get that, but our motivations aren't up for debate or your scrutiny. The issue here is the job being done by the Texans organization, by Bob McNair. In regards to building a winning team, they suck. Now, you can believe otherwise if you must. But the facts speak for themselves.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
No the facts don't..if they did, this thread would be reduced to half of what it is...
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The problem is NOT the facts. The problem is the INTERPRETATION of the facts, which can be bastardized.
Two facts are indisputable.
Fact One: This franchise has accumulated elite financial status in the sports world (let alone the NFL).
Fact Two: Our win-loss record remains pathetic.
However, be assured that ways will continue to be found to somehow even bastardize these two simple facts.
Two facts are indisputable.
Fact One: This franchise has accumulated elite financial status in the sports world (let alone the NFL).
Fact Two: Our win-loss record remains pathetic.
However, be assured that ways will continue to be found to somehow even bastardize these two simple facts.
GP
Go Texans!
Trolling.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
last year, I stopped spending my money on them even after a 9-7 year. that just shows that I expect more than what they have given us as a fanbase. i love the idea of having a Houston football team but there is no way I am going to be happy with the product they have delivered. no way at all.
when the texans were 5-7 for the 3rd year in a row, i stopped being a customer. when the texans were 5-7 for the 4th year in a row, i stopped believing that things will ever turn around with current leadership...and I still have no belief in them. my venting is the venting of a fan but the venting of a fan who has given up on this current collection of clowns.
that doesn't mean I don't think things can change eventually. it just means that it will probably be another 4 years at best before we get a chance at a HC who can actually do something with this franchise. Gary has another 2 years almost for sure, irregardless of outcome, and then Wade will get a few years to prove once again, that he is not a championship HC either. At least he is a decent HC though...unlike Gary who sucks bigtime. The dude couldnt even tell the difference between 1/2 yard and a 1 1/2 yards in a crucial end of game situation. Inexcusable and just part and parcel of the utter incompetence displayed by this franchise year after year.
I know my Texans and that is why I am so unhappy. They don't have a prayer this year unless they make some huge upgrades at at least 2 of the 3 critical needs (DT, CB, FS).
As for why I am a fan. Well its because I try and support my hometown teams. The only hometown team I don't support is the Astros and I was a fan until they got moved into the Cardinals division. I have family ties to the Cardinals and have been a fan since birth. Back in the day, I could be a fan of both when they were in different divisions. I was an Astros Buddy. I went to Terry Puhl's hitting clinic. Went to church with Craig Reynolds. But the Cards got moved in Selig's infinite wisdom and gave us 6 teams in our divsion. Something that still pisses me off to no end. I did support the Astros when they made the World Series though...a lot of good that did me
Dynamo, Rockets, Texans, Houston Hurricanes (RIP), and even the Aeros.If some of you fans want to keep letting McNair crap in your mouth and call it a sundae, that is fine. Just don't get angry or perplexed if I tell the guy, "I have had enough of that flavor, thank you."
I love the Texans but its pretty obvious that they suck and probably aren't going to get better anytime soon. At least not with this collection of losers running things.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
adolescent coping mechanism? thanks freud. I am glad you can sum my fandom up in such a condecending manner. much appreciated.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Or the fact that the Texans have indeed spent plenty of money or at least league avg. in FA over the years as has been pointed out by several of us......
Or the fact that 31 out of 32 teams enjoy "elite" financial status b/c the NFL as a business is making money hand over fist...
Or the fact that just maybe there are other reasons besides money that big time FA's don't sign here......
on & on & on....
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Many FAs don't consider us because we have shown no commitment to winning
GP
Go Texans!
Bingo.
I keep saying it over and over: Players might come off as if ALL they care about is money and they'd go wherever paid them the most. But I'd wager most players want money AND success.
It's inherent to the mentality of an athlete: I want to get paid, AND I want to win a championship...so that I can say that at one time I was among the best and came out on top.
Which makes Andre Johnson an even classier person that he would subject himself to this situation, and keep coming back for more. Barry Sanders, on the other hand, resorted to just quitting the game altogether and saying "To heck with it, I'm out. I can't win."
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
LoL. alright coach 2nd honeymoon...i'm Nmandi Asomaugha, How do you show me that you're "committed to winning" or "excellence" or whatever lockerroom slogan you want to use? Prove to me you're just not another Al Davis or Dan Snyder throwing money around & have no idea how to build a winning team.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Exactly, GP. In this league, you can get paid AND win. Why do you think AJ was unhappy last year? Because he had given the Texans a good deal and the Texans haven't done enough to help him have a chance at winning much less championship. He knew he can get success and a sweet deal elsewhere. Ultimately, he fell in line as he was under contract, then given anew deal to appease for all the losing and failures. But if they replicate 2010 in 2011, Andre needs to go elsewhere. That should never happen. He should be given a chance to win here in Houston.
Won't happen till Smithiak are sent packing. It's long overdue.
Won't happen till Smithiak are sent packing. It's long overdue.
GP
Go Texans!
You can't show him. That's just the point that's being made.
Players don't need an inspirational "sales pitch." And I doubt they look at Bob's fantastic facilities, in contrast to what Bob has said would be a major reason for a FA coming here, and go "Gee, THIS is where I want to be."
Players and agents are looking for (A) best monetary value a franchise can give, in comparison to other franchise offers to the player, and (B) What's the overall chance at success once the player gets there?
Arian Foster was undrafted and just looking for a way into the NFL...so he admits that he and his girlfriend scouted the depth charts of the teams that were expressing interest in him after the draft. He calculated that Houston had the best chance for him to become the starter, oh AND they paid him something like twice the amount he was offered by the Saints (IIRC).
Money & Opportunity. For a guy like Foster, he just needed a way into the NFL (but he also considered the contract dollars). For an established free agent who is respectable and Pro Bowl caliber? It gets a lot more complicated than just "throwing money at him." They don't want to be miserable, especially if they are coming out of a miserable situation (such as leaving the Raiders after all those years). I guarantee you that Andre Johnson wouldn't leave the Texans for a lateral move. He'd be headed to a team that he felt could get him to a title AND pay him too.
This really is silly, as you said, but for different reasons than you theorized earlier.
Getting Aso in free agency would be like hitting the lottery; it would be phenomenal JUST based on (A) Him even considering coming to a struggling team like the one he had just left behind, and (B) Bob McNair paying him a fair and relatively adequate salary for what his skills can demand in the open market. As it stands, it would be breaking the natural law of NFL physics for Aso to be on this team once free agency is open for business. And I'm not trying to be a doom and gloomer here...I'm just saying that reality is a cold, hard you-know-what.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Al Davis throwing money around? Oh and Al Davis has built many teams over the years. Yeah, dude is old and has done some senile stuff lately but he has put together some great teams over the years. I wouldn't lump him in with Snyder. Al Davis knows football but his mental state is in question. Ill give him a pass.
Look at Bud's mishandling of fisher young situation. He is getting senile too. Old school AFL Guys are getting old. Even Bowlen, assuredly partially due to failing health, has had a hard time as owner lately. He used to be known as a model NFL owner.
McNair needs to change the carebear culture and the move for Wade only reinforces that culture. Hopefully I am wrong about that.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Contrast that with Al Harris wanting to sign with Miami, b/c his family was there..
The priority list for each individual FA is different...you're right in the sense that Aso signing here would defy the natural law of NFL physics simply b/c he's been on a losing team his entire career & it is unlikely he'll want to come play for a loser...which is what we are up to this point.
Which brings me to my next point..this commitment to winning crap. Players only buy into that 1) if there's already tradition there of winning & 2) If said player was drafted by the coach....neither of which apply to the texans in FA.
I'd absolutely LOVE for a player of Aso's caliber to sign here..But I realistically look at it from both sides. If i'm Mcnair, i know that in all liklihood, i'm going to have to sign this guy to a ridiculous contract which i don't want to have to do...no owner would except for the 1 who gave him his last contract & probably dan snyder. On the other side of it if i'm Aso, short of this ridiculous contract, what incentive do i have to sign with a team with no winning tradition, especially when i have other more readily competitive teams offering me the same?
You guys kill Mcnair & the FO for not signing these guys but you freely acknowledge that the deck is stacked against them when it comes to signing these caliber of players? Doesn't appear you guys are being fair in that regard....
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
ehh..i disagree with the move for wade reinforcing the culture. There's a few things McNair could've done other than what he did that would've reinforced the carebear culture.
He could've let Gary bring another 1 of his inexperienced cronies in for the DC job.
He could've let gary keep Bush on as DC...:vincepalm:
He could've let Gary keep Bush & just made him fire his db coach.
He didn't though. He stepped in & did the next best thing....short of firing kubiak of course.
TexCanada
All Pro
I think there are plenty of reasons why a FA would choose to go to a certain team. As has already been mentioned, a chance for success is huge. We can't provide that, at least not yet.
Players are also going to go to a place with nice facilities and a good fan base. I'm sure players aren't really all that excited to go to Jacksonville where the stadium is half empty all the time.
I'm sure players are also going to pick a team where they like the coach.
And, if all that fails, the only way to get Aso here is to grossly overpay him.
GP
Go Texans!
BINGO!
So the answer to the riddle is this: GET RID OF THE LOSERS! Fire Kubiak, get a competent, true "head coach" in here and be about the business of building a winner. And when free agents SEE the commitment to winning, the deck suddenly isn't so stacked against us.
You swerved right into what I am saying. By accident.
The Texans are being treated as if they are a fragile, delicate object that has to be handled with extreme caution. Get rid of Gary Kubiak?!?! GASP! Why, the team might dissolve altogether! LOL. Look, he isn't going to do anything different for us than what he's already done for us. Even the addition of Wade Phillips is flawed from many different angles, and could possibly backfire BIG TIME. It's a gamble.
What would have been a more acceptable gamble, to me, would have been to rid the team of Smithiak and bring in Bill Cowher. Yeah, yeah, yeah: But nobody wanted Bill Cowher. No, owners knew they were headed for labor problems and didn't want to pay the remainder of a fired coach's contract AND the new mega-huge Cowher contract at the same time. Bill Cowher's biggest enemy was the CBA problems--Sunk his chances at a big deal this year. There were some hirings going on, but nothing of large financial consequence to the owners making head coaching moves in the past few months.
Look, we're at that magical place in this conversation. I declare you to be the winner, and winning as defined by Bob McNair.
In a nutshell Bob thinks they're "On the Right Track", even if the train has started going backwards. I'd like McNair to hook up a couple of strong engines in FA to pull the caboose over the hill.
The question is...how much longer do we wait for results before it's OK to blast the F.O. for lack of improvement?
What's that difficult to understand? I root for many teams in many sports. My "fandom" isn't strictly based on W/L record. Recognizing the faults of an organization is what makes me different from a 'blind homer'.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
People here are waiting to blast the FO? This is certainly news to me. I hope McNair comes out next week and says we're going to do something crazy, just so I can see this board erupt with new opinions.
Actually though, I don't come back to this board as much as I used to so I'd probably miss out anyway. Kinda sad.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
We don't see eye to eye b/c of our outlook on winners & losers imo. You obviously think that winning & losing is something innate to the person(s) whereas i don't...i look at winning as a process of knowledge & luck. I don't think getting rid of Kubiak & Smith could hurt us anymore than we're already hurting, i just don't think that bringing in someone who's had success elsewhere automatically translates to winning in another place b/c each situation is different. This isn't college basketball where it's simply a matter of recruiting & if you can afford a Caliperi, Williams you pretty much guaranteed to win.
& what you guys fail to take into account when you take this stance is that we've had "winners" by the exact definition at HC & GM when we had Capers & Casserly here. Capers had success in Carolina building a team from scratch & building a stout defense....Casserly had had tons of success working in the Redskins organization as a scout & GM. It didn't translate to us.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
& pitchforks, feathers & tar...
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
And see that's the difference from many fans in here. People who have been posting in here for years are aware of the ones in here that get angry and upset any time the organization is criticized and have to feel like they have to wear some long cape as the UBER FAN. There are certain homers that are dedicated and have committed and programmed themselves to believe that the Texans are destined for greatness every year no matter what happens in the off season and how they improve the roster or no matter what history has told us about an adminastration. Then there are guys that love Houston sports as natives or were natives here and root for the team, but are disgusted by the losership of Smithiaknair. They want competency and they want an organization that is committed to winning. Nothing wrong with rooting for your team and wanting them to win, but to keep saying the same stuff over and over for years after being wrong over and over is just pointless.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
No they haven't and no one outside of Texans homerville has ever pointed that out. As a matter of fact the Texans get criticized practically every year going into the season for doing hardly anything to improve their team outside of the draft.
You're right. We have no GM here that knows how to "sell" to players. Our GM is a half ass GM that shares the duties with Kubiak the dumbass and between both of them neither one of them knows how to paint a pretty picture for our future here. This isn't a rocket science question. It's real simple. You communicate with players or their agents and present what you plan on doing for the future to make both units top notch units and make them believe that they're an early part of that. You create excitement for that free agent to come here and be part of something huge. That, and you obviously have to pay them what they're worth at least. It's not that hard to sell a game plan to someone. If it's a guy like Nnamdi, you tell him that you're going to stack the secondary and your main focus will be to get good guys up front to rush the passer and that defense will become a huge focus since the offense is already great and that Nnamdi is going to be an essential part of that in the quest to winning a SB which is only a year or two away and that Houston will be a great place to retire.
Your mentality always seems with free agents always seems to be "we can't, we can't, we shouldn't, we shouldn't". It's a pessimistic style of thinking everything you might want to do to improve your team is a huge risk that will blow up unless it's drafting a bunch of unproven rookies to fill holes.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
& then there are the armchair GM's/coaches/owners/player fans who think they're being better fans somehow b/c they criticize every single thing organization does warranted or otherwise. Those that don't subscribe wholeheartedly to their philosophy are labeled, homers, sunshiners or "uber" fans.
Cant get around it can you.
As to your other post
A winning GM/HC isn't hard to find and doesn't take a genius to find one.
Taking a team to a SB win does take a certain amount of luck. But as long as Gary and Rick are here this is something we as fans dont need to be concerned about.
When the team puts a winner on the field the criticism will stop and not before then. BoB is making his $$$$. Is it wrong to hold him to a higher standard than the current standard?
Gary and Rick are losers and there's 5 yrs of proof to back that up.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
No, I've never criticized homers for loving their team. Good for them and good for Mcnair to have people that will keep shoveling money in his pockets. That's what he wants. I'll root for my team, but I won't stop criticizing them until they're actually on the right track with a coach that can get them somewhere. Being a homer isn't an insult. It's just that for football conversation I won't take what a blind homer says with any validity to it because someone like that can't get rid of their bias as a fan and will always look at anything as a positive no matter what. That's not what I'd call an honest sound observer. Being a homer is not an insult though. Fans have their ways of going about supporting their team and franchise.