Texian
Hall of Fame
If you don't understand a QB and a 6 Wunderlic score that explains the content of most of your post.
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Manziel
- Thread starter Wolf
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If you don't understand a QB and a 6 Wunderlic score that explains the content of most of your post.
I said it when they traded for Richardson, but they are going to Peyton him with moves like that.
If they ever figure out how to really stock their team, they are going to be tough as hell to beat.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Haha and where did you find this bias? Did you find it in me ranking Jake Matthews as my #1 OT, Cyrus Kouandjio as my #2 OT, and Taylor Lewan as my #4? That's certainly Big Ten bias.....
Or maybe it's because I like Teddy Bridgewater more than McCarron (like every other NFL scout out there). I even have Aaron Murray (an SEC QB) rated higher than most people.
You're so blinded by your Manziel love that you just toss **** against the wall and hope it sticks. Not only do I not feel that way about SEC prospects, I've actually never even said anything on this board to initiate such a response from somebody.
Jealousy LOL......unreal.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Read your post of the last month
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Apparently you've been reading them so please enlighten me.
Is this an SEC bias or just the fact that I don't like Manziel as a prospect? Be honest.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol at you trying to make yourself seem like you're some kind of genius b/c you were all in for 1 of the 2 best qb prospects to come out of the draft since Manning and Leaf. Everyone and the mother was advocating for their respective teams to try & trade up for either Luck or RG3.
& ok, you "predicted" nothing. It was reasonable to assume that we would need a qb within the next couple of years just based on Schaub's injury history, contract, age & declining production alone. So you "predicting" a whole year ahead of Schaub's implosion doesn't make you look like you know what you're talking about any more than the posters on this very board who predicted it 2 years before 2012 based on things that they didn't like about Schaub. Like them you basically just threw a bunch crap on the wall & hope it stuck.
Get outta here with this "smartest guy in the room" garbage.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
That's the really scary bit, unfortunately. If Luck gets his hands on an elite WR...
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
I didn't delete a post. As I said, I'm pretty sure it must have been a mod that did that. The only reason I removed Marcus from my post as well as my additional shots at you was because you had not responded to me yet, and I knew it would cause this kind of childish outbursts from you. This is par for the course for you. Even in the threads (mostly political in nature) that I agree with you on, you are always shouting and whining in your posts.
Also, I never said I was going to disregard everyone of your posts. I said I was going to disregard your posts in this thread in regards to Manziel. I think you are a biased, butt hurt Texas fan that can't handle the fact that A&M is in the spotlight all the while your team is floundering losing to the powerhouses BYU and Ole Miss.
I've pointed out Manziel's flaws and contrary to your opinion, I don't want the Texans to draft him.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
No what it explains is that you really have no argument & are either trolling or simply don't know what the hell you're talking about.
FYI, Ryan Fitzpatrick score a 48 on his wonderlic too.....championship!
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
He's only 205 lbs?!? Wow! He looks the part on TV, but I guess he really isn't all that big. Admittedly I haven't watched much of him.
I'm curious. Who would you like us to draft?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Luck's offensive coordinator doesn't appear to be very smart. They run a strange offense for a team with a franchise QB and their playcalling can be perplexing at time. They need to change offensive coordinators.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Indy went out and hired his OC from Stanford. He's trying to recreate the offense they had there with Gerhart and Stephan Taylor at RB. They have Brown and Richardson at RB, Fleener and Allen at TE, and speedsters at WR like Hilton and Heyward-Bey.
It would be a great offense for Luck if they had a great O-Line and good RB's like they had at Stanford. But they don't. They should be in 3-4 WR sets every play with Donald Brown playing RB as a pass blocker and receiver. Instead they line up in heavy formations and try to prove to the world that Trent Richardson is a decent RB.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Haha and where did you find this bias? Did you find it in me ranking Jake Matthews as my #1 OT, Cyrus Kouandjio as my #2 OT, and Taylor Lewan as my #4? That's certainly Big Ten bias.....
Or maybe it's because I like Teddy Bridgewater more than McCarron (like every other NFL scout out there). I even have Aaron Murray (an SEC QB) rated higher than most people.
You're so blinded by your Manziel love that you just toss **** against the wall and hope it sticks. Not only do I not feel that way about SEC prospects, I've actually never even said anything on this board to initiate such a response from somebody.
Jealousy LOL......unreal.
This just in .... Johnny is still 6' .
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
RG3 was more of a natural passer when he came out as opposed to Manziel at this point in his career.
he's also taller & bigger....mechanics & footwork are also better & his arm is also stronger than Manziel's imo.
Even with all that as an advantage, RG3 is still struggling as a passer in the NFL right now.
we can argue as to why, but he's still struggling.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I wasn't a big proponent of RG3 so I'll stay away from this one. I thought it was insane that some people thought Luck and RG3 were in the same ballpark. They aren't. The Redskins set their franchise back years with that trade.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I think Teddy is a pure WCO QB like Aaron Rogers and Joe Montana ( no Teddy is not Joe ) . You know a bootleg is a vital part of the WCO ? When Schaub ran the bootleg , it was called an orbit .
Texian
Hall of Fame
Honest, you've made several comments derogatory of SEC, SEC defenses and the SEC being overrated. You've clearly illustrated your dislike for the SEC. (the good news is I've been reading your post)
Mr teX and WolverineFan it is clear that you've a complete dislike or even a hate for Manziel. It is also clear that I think Manziel will be a top QB pick in the 2014 NFL draft. The 1st QB taken, I really don't know but I wouldn't be surprised. Is Teddy the consensus #1? In the media spin yes but come draft time maybe not.
FYI when I see comments like NFL scouts think this about this Jr. I laugh. NFL Scouts don't begin their evaluation process until a player is actually in the draft. Efficient management of their time and they've a full body of work. Only people evaluating Sophs and Juniors now are media draftniks.
FWIW at this point I'm thinking if the Texans have #1 pick they might be better served trading back w/ Cleveland at #10 for their #1, their 2nd RD and their 1st RD in 2015 (if not more). Texans clean house and dump all bad money in 2014. Who do the Texans take with 10th pick? Depends on what QBs go back to school? A top OT and Aaron Brown and Jeremiah Attaochu with their two 2nds sounds like a great start to the rebuilding program.
As for our Manziel discussion I think we've exhausted our positions and at this point we're wasting bandwidth.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
No dislike for him...i don't know the kid personally. I only dislike the opinions of people who are ready to annoint this kid.....like yours. As it is, you can't even be critical of the kid without 1 of you coming out the woodworks in his defense.
For what it's worth, i think it's in his best interest to go back to school for another year. There's no denying he's got talent & athleticism, he simply needs to get better passing the ball. Anyone who seriously watches him can see that. he's extremely raw.
By the way, i feel almost the exact same way about Brett Hundley.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
As I've stated frequently before, the SEC is undoubtedly the strongest football conference, but this SEC defense stuff is just a myth. It was true from 2003-2009. It's not anymore. The offenses in the conference have caught up.
The top 30 defenses in college football by conference.....
American - 5
Big Ten - 5
ACC - 4
SEC - 4
Big 12 - 3
C-USA - 3
Pac-12 - 3
MAC - 1
MWC - 1
Sun Belt - 1
Like I've continually stated, the SEC has the best and most athletic defensive players, but they also have the best and most athletic offensive players as well. That wasn't the case 10 years ago, but it is now. The only teams in the conference who are continually good at defense are Alabama, LSU, and Florida. That's not "the SEC". That's 3 of it's 14 teams.
Also, I do not "hate" Manziel. I think he is a fantastic college player, but his game does not translate to the NFL. That's what I argue during these debates.
However, as an aside, when Manziel played Florida he had Luke Joeckel and Jake Matthews blocking for him. When Bridgewater played Florida he had Alex Kupper and Jamon Brown blocking for him. Who do you think had the advantage?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Stop the name calling. Do not repost deleted posts.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I'll do that as long as you stop the name calling on the other end (look at post 873) which has yet to be deleted. I didn't start this crap, I only responded to it. It's not my fault that I have a opinion about Manziel without somebody getting in a uproar about it.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Maybe your criticism is unwarranted, anyone who watches him know he's a leader or close to the top in every category. Manziel works with private QB coach George Whitfield and his mechanics have improved. Running to his left Manziel still throws better than any QB I have seen recently, sees the field extremely well better than any QB I have seen this year and uses multiple recievers, it's not like he's a one read and check down QB like so many QBs are. When he extends plays and throws sidearm awkwardly to complete a pass may not be pretty and what you see as extremely raw. Hundley is very raw and hasn't come close to doing anything what Manziel has done on a football field.
NCTexan
Veteran
I'm glad you're not running the Texans scouting department. I really doubt they wait that long to start evaluating players they think are coming out.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I'm sure that they can't help notice players by simply watching other players on film .
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Read over that post again yourself. You can post like he did. You cannot continue calling people morons, etc.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Yea not sure what that comment was all about. Scouts don't just scout upperclassmen. They go through all the schools in their territory and scout anyone who impresses them. When the offseason comes around, that's when they focus on draft eligible prospects, who they usually already have a portfolio on from previous scouting trips.
You can be darn sure that pretty much every team already has a developing scouting report on Jameis Winston, despite the fact that he's a redshirt freshman.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I'm just going off what I've read from several NFL scouts and NFL GM's have said. Sure they have opinions on players like everyone else but their actual full evaluations don't begin until the player enters the NFL draft. Just because you may not be familiar with some of these NFL GM & scouts comments doesn't necessarily make me a dummy.
Scouts and GM's are on record saying that in season (Now) they're completing their evaluations and final scouting reports on Seniors. The reason they don't do underclassman is because they don't have a full body work, players are still maturing and it's a responsible use of their time on players they know who will be in the draft. And not a waste of time on players who may or may not be in the draft. Things are not always going to be the way you think they should be.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Honestly, I'm Undecided. I have to admit the possibility of trading back with someone like Cleveland who has been stock piling draft picks and may be willing to pay Kings ransom (what Wash gave STL for RGIII) to move up, I find very intriguing. This is what I find most interesting today (subject to change).
For a decision today, I like trading back, taking an OT, a QB and Aaron Donald in rd 2.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
the bolded would be valid............... if i was the only one who was saying the things i'm saying. & of course you know i'm not the only one...pro scouts are mixed on him as well for alot of the same reasons.
& Ok, so his mechanics have improved...they're still not that great. He tends to have to "load up" to get the ball downfield..which indicates arm strength issues.
His footwork is suspect too. A little too often that lead foot isn't pointed squarely at his target like it should be when he's throwing.
many times when he's scrambling around, it's pretty much unnecessary. a slide here, or there would usually be enough to buy him time to get his throw off. But he chooses to do scramble around, b/c he's most comfortable doing that rather than move in the pocket subtly.
Then there's the issue of his chuck & duck tendencies. I've never seen a qb get so much hype and be so revered doing this as much as he has.
He just doesn't look comfortable back there when even a little pressure gets up on him.
As far as Hundley...the fact that you keep bringing stats into it or alluding to them when comparing both guys..that should tell you how deep you are in with Manziel. Both guys show the same tendencies. The difference is 1 guy (Hundley) tries to sit in the pocket and make the pass down field, the other guy doesn''t.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Hundley, without any stats or JF comparisons, I haven't seen anything from Hundley on a football field that suggest he could be as good as Josh Freeman. He's still very young and can use another 12 starts in college. Better?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Footwork is the basis for everything going on up top. Him fixing his toe isn't a big deal & it can be fixed, but it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. changes to footwork of any kind can effect accuracy....& if it's a habit...which it is for him....it makes it double tough.
See Mark Sanchez. Dude had a horrible habit of over striding any time he threw the ball over 20 yards on a rope in college. It caused him to air mail those type of throws at times. The easy fix is to shorten his stride up so that he's more balanced when delivering the ball thereby enabling him to keep the ball down...problem solved right? Nope. He eventually reverted back to his old habits in trying to over compensate for the speed of the game on the NFL level. It's also no surprise then that he started back air-mailing throws again & those same throws he was getting away with in college were turning into picks on the pro level.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
ITT: tons of buttmad on both sides
jeez. I'm an Ag and even I think Manziel is the biggest gamble in the draft.
jeez. I'm an Ag and even I think Manziel is the biggest gamble in the draft.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Like I have said already, I am beginning to agree with you because of the LSU game. I expected more out of him. The first time he got beat up on by LSU could have been due to his youth and inexperience. Time #2 just shows he still hasn't figured out how to beat speedy defenses like what LSU employs.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Oh... my bad. so you can call people whiney *****
Fine and dandy, I'll just edit out the "M" word.
Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post
Holy crap you sound like a whiney little *****. I deleted the part about Marcus because he had nothing to do with the current conversation. I also deleted the part about you being narcissistic because it involved poor judgment in the "attack the post not the poster" arena. It's called maturity.
As for removing your quote, I had nothing to do with that. I'm pretty sure our little spat was moderated. You sound like a damn child with your long winded rants. Reach deep and pull the stick out of your ass. It'll make you feel better.
LOL, so now I'm the whiney little *****..
I'm not the "M word" who decided to cry like a little girl over a disagreement. I'm not the guy who couldn't handle a simple debate without saying I'll disregard every single post made be the poster who has a opinion I disagree with, I'm not the guy who deleted a post and then quoted it and responded to it. You are the one who comes off as a whiney little *****. Because you can't handle simple criticism about your man crush.
And as far as you deleting "Marcus" from your post because he had nothing to do with the conversation.. you are the one who included him and brought him into the damn conversation to begin with. Really?
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Dude, chill and move on. Let's not derail the thread from evaluations of Manziel.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
the evaluations of Manziel is what got us to this spot. Some people simply can't handle negative evaluations of johnny football.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
And some peple cant handle posting on a message board
tell me about it... some people just can't handle a disagreement of opinions.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
tell me about it... some people just can't handle a disagreement of opinions.
stand up for the injustice you are being served one day it may pay dividends for you
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
stand up for the injustice you are being served one day it may pay dividends for you
This sounds like something pulled out of a fortune cookie, no offense.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I'm going to say that Bridgewater had the advantage because it was his 24th start in his college career when he faced Florida. Florida was Manziel's first game he ever started in college and he darn near beat one the absolute best defenses in college. One can only imagine how much better Manziel's numbers would have been if had played in the American Athletic Conference.
Say what you will about SEC defenses but the #4 or #5 SEC defense is likely the #1 defense in any other conference.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
This is why it's impossible to debate with people who don't have an open mind. I'm not a fan of Manziel's pro prospects and you are. That's fine.
But when people tout the SEC as the best defensive league and the stats don't back them up, they just spout BS like the bolded above.
Michigan State leads the nation in almost every defensive category. But yea sure, I'm positive Vanderbilt has a better defense. They are the 5th ranked defense in the SEC after all................
Texian
Hall of Fame
Simple explanation that Big Ten fans have difficulty understanding, SEC defenses have to face SEC offenses. Michigan St. defensive stats are built on playing anemic Big Ten offenses. It's not difficult. An open mind helps keep the reality of situation in perspective. You saw how that great Notre Dame defense handled Alabama last year didn't you?
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
It took you a bit to come up with something other than "okay" I see. Keep up the good fight you are on buddy
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
This, by far, is the most ridiculous thing you've said thus far. Are you preaching to me Mr. SEC fan? I'm not a "Big Ten" fan. I live in Texas. I went to Texas A&M. I root for Michigan because of my dad. So please spare me the act of instructing me on how simple it is.
SEC offenses face SEC defenses? Jesus you are an Aggie. That's the same line of BS the Big 12 was feeding everybody 5-6 years ago when they couldn't stop anyone. By the way, if the offenses are so good then why are only 6 SEC teams ranked in the top 40 in offense? The Pac-12 and Big 12 have just as many. Funny how the Pac-12 has as many top offenses and top defenses as the SEC, but the SEC is the superior defensive league because they play better defense and face "better offenses" lol.
If the stats on defense don't back you up then spout your propaganda about how awesome the offenses are. That's why the defenses aren't as good....
And nobody is debating that Alabama doesn't have a great defense. However, just because Alabama has a great defense doesn't mean the SEC is the best defensive league. That's a prototypical "SEC fan" mindset of the teams that aren't Alabama, but want to throw their hat into that elite ring because they're in the same conference. I'm almost mistaking you for a Kentucky or Tennessee fan now.
And who cares about Notre Dame? They needed the refs to beat Stanford and Pittsburgh. They lucked their way into the title game and everyone knew they were going to the woodshed.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Again, very simple, Pac 12 and Big 12 offenses don't play SEC defenses. Why only 6 out of 40? SEC offenses play SEC defenses. Simply put, if 34 of those top offenses had to play 8 SEC defenses every year they in all likelihood wouldn't be top 40 offenses.
It was the Alabama Offense not the Bama D that had it's way with that great Notre Dame Defense.
What, no comment on the advantage Teddy?
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