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It’s time for Cal McNair to take over moving forward.

Keep the marketing department in tip top shape..maybe the football division will follow suit
 
Double Barrel said:
Seems like a case to be made for O'Brien after 3 x 9-7 seasons and then an injury filled fourth season but a promising young QB to develop. Just identify the problem *cough*RickSmith*cough*, solve it with replacement, and move on to potentially better things in 2018. If O'Brien cannot turn it around next season, move on to the next HC with a new GM helping analyze the situation.
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Except Kubiak's side of the ball got continuously better. With 6 wins the O was 9th in pts, 3rd on yds. Best O except arguably 2012 when they were 8th in pts, 7th on yds.

Like I said in another thread, my preference is to see both pack their bags. I won't throw a hissy if both stay or if RS only is fired IF OB doesn't get an extension.
 
Would you rather have Casserly or Smith as GM?

That's the only two GM's this team has had, and he's given a ton more rope to Smith then he ever did to Casserly.
 
So let me write my too long post or two on the structure of the Texans

This thread is flawed because Cal McNair is already a part of the decisionmaking process of the Texans (see signature). This team is run by a corporate style group-think posse which includes both McNairs, the GM, and the coach. Cal is just a part of this system as the others. Remember Papa McNair has already had a serious run of illness so the idea the Cal has little to no idea of how things are run seems faulty at best. In fact, he and Smith's relationship suggests that there would be nothing that changes if Papa McNair is no longer running the team.

By the way the group-think of the organization is very intentional as given the amount confusion that exists on who wanted this "player" or not. In short, it does not matter as much as many of the posters here think. all major transactions are approved by groupthink. Because Rick Smith is now family, it places O'Brien as the 'outsider" more than it should, but all indications that there has not been a major acquisition that he has not been at least "OK" with.

IMO, this group-think contributes to the roster never feeling like one that BOB nor Smith really put together, because BOB nor Smith really puts the roster together.
 
infantrycak said:
Well for one thing it was 5th year after 4 years of progress. And the owner identified the problem (DC), solved it and had 10-6 & 12 & 4 the next 2 seasons. Seems to me his decision was vindicated so I don't know why this continues to get brought up.
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Because although their record improved they weren't SB contenders.

Keep on praising 10-6, and winning 2 playoff games against the Bengals.

I'm sure that wouldn't be good enough for the teams they want to become like the Pats/Steelers.
 
steelbtexan said:
Because although their record improved they weren't SB contenders.

Keep on praising 10-6, and winning 2 playoff games against the Bengals.

I'm sure that wouldn't be good enough for the teams they want to become like the Pats/Steelers.
Click to expand...

Blah, blah.

Says you they weren't contenders. The Giants have 2 rings from 9-7 teams who got hot & lucky. The Ravens have 1 from a 10-6 team that did the same. The Texans got unlucky with Schaub.

I haven't seen Pittsburgh or the Pats fire a playoff HC or GM for not being contenders. You're just pulling stuff out of your ass.
 
Like I said in another thread, my preference is to see both pack their bags. I won't throw a hissy if both stay or if RS only is fired IF OB doesn't get an extension.[/QUOTE]

This is where I am.
 
Double Barrel said:
Yep. He has always come across as a giant goober to me. He seems like the stereotypical son of a rich man that you'd see in some lame comedy movie. He has an office full of stuffed exotic animals that he "hunted" and often matches his outfits to match his dad.
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Pat-McCormick4.jpg
 
infantrycak said:
Blah, blah.

Says you they weren't contenders. The Giants have 2 rings from 9-7 teams who got hot & lucky. The Ravens have 1 from a 10-6 team that did the same.

I haven't seen Pittsburgh or the Pats fire a playoff HC or GM for not being contenders. You're just pulling stuff out of your ass.
Click to expand...

We will never agree, but losing 3 out of 4 games to end the season and losing homefield advantage may scream contender to you, but it certainly doesn't to me.
 
infantrycak said:
Nice of you to concede 2011.
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They had a good team but once Schaub went down they weren't true contenders. I think you would agree that Yates isn't the QB to lead a team to the SB. So I didn't even bring that yr up.

I'm also not convinced Schaub was clutch enough to win a SB, but I sure would've like to have seen him get the chance.
 
steelbtexan said:
They had a good team but once Schaub went down they weren't true contenders. I think you would agree that Yates isn't the QB to lead a team to the SB. So I didn't even bring that yr up.

I'm also not convinced Schaub was clutch enough to win a SB, but I sure would've like to have seen him get the chance.
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Agreed. That 12-4 year if we hadn't choked down the stretch of the season (1-3 finish after being an NFL best 11-1) we could have locked up home field advantage throughout the playoffs. We may have had a better chance to reach the Super Bowl only needing to win two home games in the playoffs. Having to go to Foxborough for the divisional round was tough. Tom Brady rarely loses home games.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
So let me write my too long post or two on the structure of the Texans

This thread is flawed because Cal McNair is already a part of the decisionmaking process of the Texans (see signature). This team is run by a corporate style group-think posse which includes both McNairs, the GM, and the coach. Cal is just a part of this system as the others. Remember Papa McNair has already had a serious run of illness so the idea the Cal has little to no idea of how things are run seems faulty at best. In fact, he and Smith's relationship suggests that there would be nothing that changes if Papa McNair is no longer running the team.

By the way the group-think of the organization is very intentional as given the amount confusion that exists on who wanted this "player" or not. In short, it does not matter as much as many of the posters here think. all major transactions are approved by groupthink. Because Rick Smith is now family, it places O'Brien as the 'outsider" more than it should, but all indications that there has not been a major acquisition that he has not been at least "OK" with.

IMO, this group-think contributes to the roster never feeling like one that BOB nor Smith really put together, because BOB nor Smith really puts the roster together.
Click to expand...

Which further explains why this team is stuck in a rut of mediocrity. Basically, the 2 owners are like the blind leading the blind. They have a GM who earned the "Golden Snorkel" Award for his ability to keep his mouth firmly attached to McNair ass without needing a breath of air and b/c he lacks the true ability to construct a top notch team. Not to mention, when crap (bad decisions) hits the fan, they're suddenly a "4-Man Brain Trust" in talent evaluation and decisions. They act like 4 kids trying to deflect blame...who did this? He did it...no, he did it....unn-unnn, he did it... No one in this organization has man'd up as to who was the real ringmaster in the Osweiler fiasco which has left everyone else out there to speculate. Anyhow...

This overall situation furthers my view on bringing in someone like Polian; to run this organization while keeping the McNair's out of football decisions and mentoring a young GM on the art of building an organization for long term success....something that I based on 15 years of results which would conclude that the McNair's have no business trying to be anything else but "silent" owners and Rick Smith's 11 year run as GM as more failure than success. Slice and dice this statement any way you want, but the end product we see on a season to season basis is the end result of this group.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Not to mention, when crap (bad decisions) hits the fan, they're suddenly a "4-Man Brain Trust" in talent evaluation and decisions. They act like 4 kids trying to deflect blame...who did this? He did it...no, he did it....unn-unnn, he did it... No one in this organization has man'd up as to who was the real ringmaster in the Osweiler fiasco which has left everyone else out there to speculate. Anyhow...
Click to expand...

What a nice fairytale you create. Except the part that they don't point fingers at all. They don't hang someone out for you. And pssst, you're not a partner or a shareholder. They're under no obligation to tell you squat.

I swear half the beotching and moaning around here is about not knowing enough to ineffectually beotch and moan about stuff you don't control.
 
infantrycak said:
What a nice fairytale you create. Except the part that they don't point fingers at all. They don't hang someone out for you. And pssst, you're not a partner or a shareholder. They're under no obligation to tell you squat.

I swear half the beotching and moaning around here is about not knowing enough to ineffectually beotch and moan about stuff you don't control.
Click to expand...

:corrosion:
 
infantrycak said:
What a nice fairytale you create. Except the part that they don't point fingers at all. They don't hang someone out for you. And pssst, you're not a partner or a shareholder. They're under no obligation to tell you squat.

I swear half the beotching and moaning around here is about not knowing enough to ineffectually beotch and moan about stuff you don't control.
Click to expand...

Infantrycak....I don't really need to see the inside running of this team; to know how ineffective this ownership group is, the failure that the GM has been and the failure of the HC and his staff at improving their program or the talent supplied, which is accumulated by the McNair's, RS and O'Brien.

I create solutions and could never afford to run my business or the businesses I have managed with the same verve as the McNair's without knowing...one, I'd be out of business sooner rather than later and two, fired for failure to produce while employed. If, I'm going to come into this forum and just post about the issues I see, then why even participate....hell a 7 year old could do that. Sure, I don't know the McNair's but like I've said on numerous occasions, this is an open forum, therefore open to many complainers and/or fans who just want to look a little deeper at the issue.

What makes me chuckle at the majority of your retorts...you're the proverbial critic. What's even more comical, I never needed this group to hang themselves or others out for their idiotic decisions...hell, I've done that for them. If I was granted an inside view, I'd bet on my assumptions....unless, you have seen some kind of overall success from this organization that I've somehow missed.
 
infantrycak said:
Except Kubiak's side of the ball got continuously better. With 6 wins the O was 9th in pts, 3rd on yds. Best O except arguably 2012 when they were 8th in pts, 7th on yds.

Like I said in another thread, my preference is to see both pack their bags. I won't throw a hissy if both stay or if RS only is fired IF OB doesn't get an extension.
Click to expand...

Yep. Good points, man. I'm not one to defend O'Brien, because I could make the case for both keeping and firing him. I certainly do not disagree with your points.

I'm the same with wanting to see both gone and fresh leadership brought in, but we both know that is unlikely based on Texans history and M.O.

ArlingtonTexan said:
So let me write my too long post or two on the structure of the Texans

This thread is flawed because Cal McNair is already a part of the decisionmaking process of the Texans (see signature). This team is run by a corporate style group-think posse which includes both McNairs, the GM, and the coach. Cal is just a part of this system as the others. Remember Papa McNair has already had a serious run of illness so the idea the Cal has little to no idea of how things are run seems faulty at best. In fact, he and Smith's relationship suggests that there would be nothing that changes if Papa McNair is no longer running the team.

By the way the group-think of the organization is very intentional as given the amount confusion that exists on who wanted this "player" or not. In short, it does not matter as much as many of the posters here think. all major transactions are approved by groupthink. Because Rick Smith is now family, it places O'Brien as the 'outsider" more than it should, but all indications that there has not been a major acquisition that he has not been at least "OK" with.

IMO, this group-think contributes to the roster never feeling like one that BOB nor Smith really put together, because BOB nor Smith really puts the roster together.
Click to expand...

*sigh* You're right, of course, and as fans we just have to accept that this is the way it is and there is very little that we can do about it short of boycotting and potentially losing another NFL team as a result.

They are going to run their franchise however they want to run it and our collective voices are irrelevant beyond the above mentioned financial pressure that could ultimately backfire in our faces.

And I agree that O'Brien is the odd man out here. If they let him go, I fully expect a "team player" HC that blends well with the boardroom structure. So no Bruce Arians or Jimbo Fisher or John Gruden and most likely Lovie Smith and Marvin Lewis types.

steelbtexan said:
Because although their record improved they weren't SB contenders.

Keep on praising 10-6, and winning 2 playoff games against the Bengals.

I'm sure that wouldn't be good enough for the teams they want to become like the Pats/Steelers.
Click to expand...

I just can't be critical in hindsight of the Kubiak years. While they did not produce a SB caliber team, they did get this franchise over the hump of consecutive non-winning seasons and no playoff appearances.

And it obviously was not Kubiak as the problem in the equation with his FOUR Super Bowl rings in three coaching positions over his career.

He could produce a SB team with the right GM and front office. There is no dispute. And that's what is clearly missing in Houston.

CloakNNNdagger said:
Pat-McCormick4.jpg
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Perfect, man! That is the exact image in my head of the McNairs. :thumbup
 
infantrycak said:
What a nice fairytale you create. Except the part that they don't point fingers at all. They don't hang someone out for you. And pssst, you're not a partner or a shareholder. They're under no obligation to tell you squat.

I swear half the beotching and moaning around here is about not knowing enough to ineffectually beotch and moan about stuff you don't control.
Click to expand...

Nope it's about the team sucking and not being willing to change the way they go about their business in acquiring players. Because what 15 yrs of evidence proves is what they're currently doing will never bring a championship to this city and as long as they're making bank it's like they dont even care.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
So let me write my too long post or two on the structure of the Texans

This thread is flawed because Cal McNair is already a part of the decisionmaking process of the Texans (see signature). This team is run by a corporate style group-think posse which includes both McNairs, the GM, and the coach. Cal is just a part of this system as the others. Remember Papa McNair has already had a serious run of illness so the idea the Cal has little to no idea of how things are run seems faulty at best. In fact, he and Smith's relationship suggests that there would be nothing that changes if Papa McNair is no longer running the team.

By the way the group-think of the organization is very intentional as given the amount confusion that exists on who wanted this "player" or not. In short, it does not matter as much as many of the posters here think. all major transactions are approved by groupthink. Because Rick Smith is now family, it places O'Brien as the 'outsider" more than it should, but all indications that there has not been a major acquisition that he has not been at least "OK" with.

IMO, this group-think contributes to the roster never feeling like one that BOB nor Smith really put together, because BOB nor Smith really puts the roster together.
Click to expand...

With this setup every decision goes Cal/Ricky McNair yes, BOB no, we came to a consensus, we will be doing what the Godfather wants. I also believe Bob McNair when he says he's never had to step in and make a decision/break a tie in this setup.

My question is if the McNair's have some kind of moral code when it comes to players they acquire (Say KJo over Peters draft pick) then why is Cushing still on the team. Also I wonder if a self made billionaire like McNair ever had to get his hands dirty in the process of becoming a billionaire? If he did then that makes his stance on acquiring only choir boys hypocritical.
 
steelbtexan said:
With this setup every decision goes Cal/Ricky McNair yes, BOB no, we came to a consensus, we will be doing what the Godfather wants. I also believe Bob McNair when he says he's never had to step in and make a decision/break a tie in this setup.

My question is if the McNair's have some kind of moral code when it comes to players they acquire (Say KJo over Peters draft pick) then why is Cushing still on the team. Also I wonder if a self made billionaire like McNair ever had to get his hands dirty in the process of becoming a billionaire? If he did then that makes his stance on acquiring only choir boys hypocritical.
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Hey, Ken Lay being a Texans minority owner and McNair selling his Enron stock right before the collapse is purely coincidental. Nothing to see here, folks, move along now. :tvhorror:
 
Double Barrel said:
Hey, Ken Lay being a Texans minority owner and McNair selling his Enron stock right before the collapse is purely coincidental. Nothing to see here, folks, move along now. :tvhorror:
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Where do you get this? My understanding is McNair sold almost all his Enron stock shortly after the Cogen sale.
 
infantrycak said:
Where do you get this? My understanding is McNair sold almost all his Enron stock shortly after the Cogen sale.
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Houston Chronicle:

"It's not easy, being Bob McNair. Back in the old days, being a Houston billionaire was fun: Whether you made your fortune in the oil patch or, like McNair, you cashed in your Enron stock at exactly the right time, just before the soufflé imploded, life was lunch at the Petroleum Club and dinnertime ribeyes at Confederate House, and doing pretty much whatever you pleased."

It was also mentioned in a Houston Press article and a Forbes article years ago. John McClain has also mentioned it before, as well.
 
Double Barrel said:
Houston Chronicle:

"It's not easy, being Bob McNair. Back in the old days, being a Houston billionaire was fun: Whether you made your fortune in the oil patch or, like McNair, you cashed in your Enron stock at exactly the right time, just before the soufflé imploded, life was lunch at the Petroleum Club and dinnertime ribeyes at Confederate House, and doing pretty much whatever you pleased."

It was also mentioned in a Houston Press article and a Forbes article years ago. John McClain has also mentioned it before, as well.
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I've seen that article and it looks like nothing more than rank speculation.

The fact is the timing was destined to appear close. McNair had the bid in to get an NFL team. At the end of 1999 he sold Cogen & got approved for the team. The sale of Enron's portion was largely in stock. He began liquidation of the stock for the NFL deal and to put in a new venture Cogene Biotech which he started up in 2000. You don't dump $1 bil in stock in the market all at once unless you want to take a beating. News of Enron's fraud broke fall 2001.

I get that salacious is more fun but not seeing more than conjecture.

Look at the next line as if his average day was the Petroleum Club & Confederate House in Houston. Until the Texans came to fruition he had spent most of his time for several years at his horse operations in Kentucky, SC & Tennessee (which is where his educational foundation's efforts were focused). They owned those from 1994 to 2008.
 
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everytime I see this thread title it's mind boggling... I keep thinking of April 1
 
infantrycak said:
I've seen that article and it looks like nothing more than rank speculation.

The fact is the timing was destined to appear close. McNair had the bid in to get an NFL team. At the end of 1999 he sold Cogen & got approved for the team. The sale of Enron's portion was largely in stock. He began liquidation of the stock for the NFL deal and to put in a new venture Cogene Biotech which he started up in 2000. You don't dump $1 bil in stock in the market all at once unless you want to take a beating. News of Enron's fraud broke fall 2001.

I get that salacious is more fun but not seeing more than conjecture.

Look at the next line as if his average day was the Petroleum Club & Confederate House in Houston. Until the Texans came to fruition he had spent most of his time for several years at his horse operations in Kentucky, SC & Tennessee (which is where his educational foundation's efforts were focused). They owned those from 1994 to 2008.
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So you're saying McNair didn't sell his stock at exactly the right time and Ken Lay wasn't one of the minority owners?

This is just a coincidence. You are very good at presenting things the way you want them to appear and I mean that as a compliment.

# Not buying, do you know a billionaire that became that way without getting his hands dirty? Look at the other NFL owners as an example.
 
steelbtexan said:
I will ask again

HAVE YOU HEARD OF A BILLIONAIRE THAT HASN"T GOTTEN HIS HANDS DIRTY?
Click to expand...

I don't falsely claim to have knowledge about all of them like you.

I have heard nothing but this smack on McNair. I have heard nothing "dirty" about Buffett. I know in detail how Bill Gates made his money and it was luck rather than dirt. I knew Larry Ellison as he became a billionaire and don't know him to be dirty.

Back to your fact free life.
 
infantrycak said:
I don't falsely claim to have knowledge about all of them like you.

I have heard nothing but this smack on McNair. I have heard nothing "dirty" about Buffett. I know in detail how Bill Gates made his money and it was luck rather than dirt. I knew Larry Ellison as he became a billionaire and don't know him to be dirty.

Back to your fact free life.
Click to expand...

Bill Gates? Really

The govt had to break up Microsoft.

I'm done with this topic.
 
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More McNair on Richardson. Oh, you don't want anymore? Too bad.

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Carolina Panthers owner Jerry Richardson has offered an explanation to at least some NFL owners about the allegations of sexual and racial workplace misconduct against him, Houston Texans owner Bob McNair said on Sunday.

"I understand what he's saying,'' McNair said on the first day of the NFL owners meeting. "Sometimes people choose to try to make something go away rather than fighting it. I think his regret is he didn't fight some of these things.

"We get confronted with it, too, where people will allege something, they get a lawyer, and what they do is come out and threaten you. And your legal counsel and your insurance people say, 'Well, it's going to cost you X number millions of dollars to defend this. And if we can settle it for this ...' [Then he goes], 'Well, wait a minute. We're not guilty. Why would we do that?' That's the question. Sometimes just to get rid of it, if you can get rid of it, do it.''

The NFL in December began an investigation into the allegations after Sports Illustrated reported that Richardson reached a financial settlement with three former employees who alleged sexual harassment and a former scout who alleged that the team founder addressed him with a racial slur.

Richardson, 81, announced that same day that he planned to sell the team after the season instead of waiting until two years after his death, as he previously planned.
"I know Jerry. He's an outstanding person,'' McNair said. "He was very candid in what he said and what he did, and sometimes things get misunderstood.''

McNair this past season had to issue an apology for saying "we can't have the inmates running the prison'' in reference to ongoing player demonstrations during the national anthem.

At the time he said, "I never meant to offend anyone, and I was not referring to our players. I used a figure of speech that was never intended to be taken literally.''

McNair wasn't comparing Richardson's situation to his, but he used similar terminology when explaining what Richardson told owners about the alleged workplace misconduct.

"I hope this thing turns out that he's innocent,'' he said of the NFL investigation into Richardson. "They alleged. I don't know. Some of the comments he might have made could have been made jokingly and misunderstood. I'm sure he didn't mean to offend anybody.''
Click to expand...
Sure, Bob. Insurance companies pay off "X number of millions" on baseless claims all the time. Can someone just follow this senile old man around and slap the microphone out of anyone's hand trying interviewing McNair.
 
Roy Munson: "hey herb, how's life?"

Old man Herb: "taking forever....."

This scene in Kingpin is the 1st thing that comes to mind any time McNair opens his mouth these days. Basically, When you get old as dirt like him, at some point you enter that IDGAF stage & you just say/do some of the most asinine/inappropriate ****. From all the crazy things Al Davis did/said late in his life to Jerry Jones begging for gloryhole at a press conference all the while not understanding the very different meaning of the term in everyday vernacular.... noone should be surprised by some of the things any of these old dudes are saying and/or doing.

As rich and successful as they've been in thier lives, they know it's just a matter of time before that ageism creeps in from the rest of society...so they do & say things to try to stay relevant..Hence Robert Kraft's girlfriend baby reportedly not being his.....:rolleyes:
 
He isn't helping his own cause, that's for sure.

The one thing he said that I can get behind is that players shouldn't be allowed to make political statements while on the playing field.

But this nonsense? He's on his own there. I can't get behind that line of thought.
 
To him it's just grabazz with the girls at the office like old days, he just doesn't get it.
Charlie Rose thought the same thing now he's in a little room all by himself and talking with himself.
 
If it's not overt, I have no problem with players expressing their religious beliefs. I guess "over the top" would be a better word than overt. There's a line somewhere but it would take a lot to cross it. It's well within reason for a player to pray or praise God for their talent etc. That's been done forever and I've never heard much push back on that, so not sure what he is referring to.
 
infantrycak said:
Actually his full comment was nothing political or religious.

Does he really object to players kneeling and crossing themselves?
Click to expand...

I was thinking about if he frowned upon Arian Foster’s namaste thing.

I wonder if he thought if it was a Muslim thing or a Chinese ninja thing.

And yes, before “Mr. Internet Know It All Mensa Club Member” wants to correct me I know it’s not either of those.

It’s a Jedi thing from Star Wars...
 
It's reached the point that Bob either: A) Doesn't know what the hell he's saying, or...B) He doesn't care.

Either way, he's not making it any easier on his new GM.
 
I always thought reciting the Lord's Prayer with the team got me more pumped up than the Star Spangled Banner before a game. Not sure why.

McNair in one fell swoop pretty much isolates everyone that likes this team. I could tell him to keep the politics and religion out of the boardroom, and stop supporting racists, but it would be too much common sense for him to handle in one thought.
 
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