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Is Tom Savage A Long Term Option?

steelbtexan said:
He's going to want to start.

I bet he ends up in Cleveland or Arz.
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I think Taylor will want to start for a team that could go deep in playoffs. Despite my confidence in Watson's ability, I cannot ignore possible injuries to him and without inviting severe booing to this posts, it is possible Taylor could outplay Watson. Going to either Browns or Arizona doesn't give him much hope for happy future and he could be crunched as easily there as Houston. Texans can offer him could deal say 6 years 72 million. Watson has four more seasons before rookie deal ends and my offer to Taylor could release him then or trade if he is as good as I think. Cushing savings $7.6 million 2018 plus a signing bonus prorated over six seasons could be enticing to Taylor. We need a mobile, good QB to go with Watson.
 
I’m in the “bring in a vet” camp. In regards to realistic options, how about bringing back Fitzy!?


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I'm looking at RG III b/c his contract could lean heavily towards a veterans minimum deal with plenty of financial incentives built in. Not to mention, it could be a one year deal with an option for a second season. This could be by far the most cost effective answer to 2018.

I like Lauletta as well and he'd probably be there in RD7, I'm just hoping the Texans get awarded that 4th COMP Pick which would be in RD7. Anyhow, I'd also sign Anu Solomon (Baylor / Arizona) as an UDFA development type of QB. He's another, runnin, throwin Solomoan.
 
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Texansphan said:
This might sound crazy and I have never been a fan of his but he has a similar game to DW4 and that is Johnny Manziel.
He only needs to be a backup.
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Not sure that Manziel is an option for any roster at this moment. I'd honestly take just about any other QB over Manziel.

Johnny Manziel says he's bipolar, working on comeback
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ust-johnny-manziel-working-come-back-football

Johnny Football wants a comeback.

In an interview with "Good Morning America" that aired Monday, Heisman Trophy winner and NFL bust Johnny Manziel said he has been diagnosed as bipolar and is taking medication for it. And his goal is to get back on the football field.

...

Manziel said he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder "about a year ago." He added that he has stopped drinking, saying that he had used alcohol as a way of "self-medicating" as he battled depression.

"At the end of the day I can't help that my wires are a little bit differently crossed than yours, I can't help my mental makeup of the way that I was created," Manziel said. "But I know if I stay on these meds and I continue to do what I am doing right now ... I think my dad, my mom, I think [girlfriend Bre Tiesi], would all agree that they see a drastic change."
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I think in the years to come this thread with its title "Is Tom Savage A Long Term Option?" will rise from the dead as a joke when things look shaky at the QB spot from time to time due to injuries or the odd bad game.

It's just too funny to read that now knowing what we all know.

Also (unrelated to Savage) I'm not entirely certain that the Texans would have contacted RGIII last season if they had any interest in him. I'm not saying they do or anything like that I just think that building for this season and the future going forward is a different situation than trying to bring a guy in mid-season to step into a new system and some other guys shoes. With our line last year it would have been a terrible idea for both the Texans and RGIII (or even Kaepernick though I am pretty sure the league has decided he's done so I'm not holding my breath on him as an option).

New guy at the GM spot. New season and time to build a new roster. It wouldn't surprise me if options came up that weren't considered worth looking at during last seasons "Bataan Death March" to the end.

 
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badboy said:
I think Taylor will want to start for a team that could go deep in playoffs. Despite my confidence in Watson's ability, I cannot ignore possible injuries to him and without inviting severe booing to this posts, it is possible Taylor could outplay Watson. Going to either Browns or Arizona doesn't give him much hope for happy future and he could be crunched as easily there as Houston. Texans can offer him could deal say 6 years 72 million. Watson has four more seasons before rookie deal ends and my offer to Taylor could release him then or trade if he is as good as I think. Cushing savings $7.6 million 2018 plus a signing bonus prorated over six seasons could be enticing to Taylor. We need a mobile, good QB to go with Watson.
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I really don't see in any situation where the Texans offer Tyrod that type of money, most certainly for a back up With Deshaun being on a Rookie deal this makes the team flexibility really good to address other team needs, We could easily sign RG3 to a vet min, or draft a QB I like TCU Kenny Trill (Hill) and Memphis Riley Ferguson.

Edit: I also forgot to add we should never in any shape or form EVER give anyone a 72 million dollar contract again after what happened.
 
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Jadmakaveli said:
Edit: I also forgot to add we should never in any shape or form EVER give anyone a 72 million dollar contract again after what happened.
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QBs are about to break $30 mil/year. Of course we will offer a contract far in excess of $72 mil fairly shortly. That is, unless you want to continue with the Tom Savages of the league.
 
Jadmakaveli said:
I really don't see in any situation where the Texans offer Tyrod that type of money, most certainly for a back up With Deshaun being on a Rookie deal this makes the team flexibility really good to address other team needs, We could easily sign RG3 to a vet min, or draft a QB I like TCU Kenny Trill (Hill) and Memphis Riley Ferguson.

Edit: I also forgot to add we should never in any shape or form EVER give anyone a 72 million dollar contract again after what happened.
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Not to be a wise ass but I suggest you spend a bit of time learning how cap basically works. Not saying I or anyone else on this board is expert but you do make several flawed statements.
1. It is not certain that Taylor would be back up to Watson. It is possible that Taylor is a better QB thru preseason than Watson and could be day one starter. Also OBrien could start Taylor to protect our franchise QB even if our OLine for this season consists of the free agents I hope we bring in..LT Solder & RT Fleming and RG Norwell as it could and probably will take several games to have a consistent OLine. I am not like you saying this is certain but could happen (even with Ric Smith gone).

2. Other team needs can be addressed with a six year $72 m for Taylor. I want to say now though I have not posted my offers to FAs yet, the deal I would offer is four years $60 million. His market value determined by Spotrac is four years $78 million. He turns 29 August 3rd and would be 33 going into 2022 allowing him to sign again with Texans or see his final contract elsewhere. My deal would guarantee him $15 m [signing bonus $10 + 2018 base of $5 m) His cap $2.5 (prorated bonus) + $ 5 m base would be only $7.5 m. Cushing's cap savings if cut or traded is $ 7.64.

3. If Texans had any desire to sign Griffin he would have been on roster way before now as someone mentioned upstream. We don't want a cheap backup QB. Texans history shows we need a good backup & we should be willing to pay for one now. Texans have been evaluated as strong candidate to turn 2017 into highly successful 2018. Last I saw they were ranked as #1 in AFC with 20:1 odds of getting in Super Bowl. We cannot let one player going out to keep that from occurring. We have the cap let's get good players.
 
Jadmakaveli said:
Oh no it was a joke about QB17 since we offered him 4 year 72 million.
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I will address your edit. A contract offer of $ 72 million or any amount does not mean the player will get it all. We did not pay Osweiler 72. He got two years and was off our roster to Cleveland. I am not debating whether it was good deal or not. JJ Watt was given a six year $100 m deal. We can cut or trade him now and he would not get the $100 m. In fact we would have a $ 9 million savings. Again, I'm not advocating that just saying it could happen. Contracts are and have been completed with many players "getting" huge offers but not "getting" 100%. Chris Olsen was hired for his expertise with NFL cap and getting Texans out of cap hell and has done an excellent job. He recently received a promotion as I posted.
 
badboy said:
Not to be a wise ass but ...

1. It is not certain that Taylor would be back up to Watson. It is possible that Taylor is a better QB thru preseason than Watson and could be day one starter.
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Lol, not to be a smartass, but pull the other pinkie toe.
 
badboy said:
Now you are being ornery. It is a possibility even if not expected.
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No, I honestly think there is 0.0000000000000...000% chance Taylor could come in here and beat out a medically cleared Watson. Not entirely out of admiration for Watson, although his brief play excelled above Taylor, but all the baggage, 1st round trade up, OB job saver, coming off injury, all-time record pace, etc. He's starting unless you bring in Brady.
 
badboy said:
Yes or no.. is it possible what I said could happen?
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Just curious but do you actually believe that Tyrod Taylor a better QB than Watson?

Edit:
I think Taylor has shown enough to be given a shot at starting, I just don't believe he'd get that with the Texans.
 
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ObsiWan said:
Just curious but do you actually believe that Tyrod Taylor a better QB than Watson?
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To be clear I said he could beat out Watson or could start behind new Oline to protect Watson until line jelled. My position is I want a season vet QB on roster in case for what ever reason Watson cannot start even if only out for a game or three. Texans players get hurt..we know that. Texans QB's get hurt..we know that. We can pay T aylor and improve other positions. Spend it! Do you really want Watt, Hopkins, Clowney and others to waste a season if #4 goes out for season? Do we really want Griffin in that role? Or even a rookie like Riley Ferguson as was mentioned (whom I like BTW)?

I am a fan of Watson but do we put all our 2018 eggs in his basket when we can reasonably add a good QB?
 
badboy said:
To be clear I said he could beat out Watson or could start behind new Oline to protect Watson until line jelled. My position is I want a season vet QB on roster in case for what ever reason Watson cannot start even if only out for a game or three. Texans players get hurt..we know that. Texans QB's get hurt..we know that. We can pay T aylor and improve other positions. Spend it! Do you really want Watt, Hopkins, Clowney and others to waste a season if #4 goes out for season? Do we really want Griffin in that role? Or even a rookie like Riley Ferguson as was mentioned (whom I like BTW)?

I am a fan of Watson but do we put all our 2018 eggs in his basket when we can reasonably add a good QB?
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I'm OK going with RGIII
 
badboy said:
To be clear I said he could beat out Watson or could start behind new Oline to protect Watson until line jelled. My position is I want a season vet QB on roster in case for what ever reason Watson cannot start even if only out for a game or three. Texans players get hurt..we know that. Texans QB's get hurt..we know that. We can pay T aylor and improve other positions. Spend it! Do you really want Watt, Hopkins, Clowney and others to waste a season if #4 goes out for season? Do we really want Griffin in that role? Or even a rookie like Riley Ferguson as was mentioned (whom I like BTW)?

I am a fan of Watson but do we put all our 2018 eggs in his basket when we can reasonably add a good QB?
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The answer to your question is, "not if you can help it; and we can help it"
You know Josh Johnson was still on the roster at the end of the season. So he can be re-signed fairly reasonably. The question is, can O'Brien get decent performance from him if need be.

Here's the eval from OurLads when he came out of school...
2008 Guide: What Ourlads' NFL Scouting Services said about JOSH JOHNSON: San Diego, 6026 213 4.55. Three-year starter that is smooth and athletic. Can throw accurately on the run. Ran the West Coast offense in college his first three years under Jim Harbaugh. Good touch over the linebackers. Sees the field. Was the MVP of the East-West Shrine game. Slender build. Could stand to gain more muscle weight. Productive over college career (113 TDs, 15 INTs). Has some zip on the short and medium passes, especially when on the run. Will telegraph and lock on to primary receiver at times. Can make plays with his feet. Slippery when pocket breaks down.(sound familiar?) Throws a tight spiral and will overthrow deep balls because of inconsistent speed changes of his wide receivers. Poised. Has a good chance to make a team and develop. A quiet personality that is a good worker and will work to get better. OSR:6/17. Ball velocity was 49 mph which is below average to make the stick throws. Fourth/fifth round. (A-33, H-9, SS-4.45, VJ-33.5).​

...Johnson started his career behind Josh Freeman at Tampa (not exactly the best QB training ground) then went to Cleveland (we know what happens to QBs there). But he still might be salvagable because the above eval tells me he might be more suited to our run/pass option game better than the pocket passer they tried to make him in Tampa.
Now if we don't just kick him to the curb (see Case Keenum who didn't have the best resume' either) and put some time in grooming him to be ready to step in - if need be - we might already have Watson's back up who wouldn't require throwing out the fun parts of our playbook.

Would I sign someone else? Sure. If you can find someone who is mobile and understands that this is Watson's team and is good with that.
 
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You know, it's a shame that the trouble-stirring media only focused on the fact that Johnson "hasn't thrown a pass in three years" instead of what the young man did under Harbaugh and in his community. I hope the kid makes it.

 
ObsiWan said:
The answer to your question is, "not if you can help it; and we can help it"
You know Josh Johnson was still on the roster at the end of the season. So he can be re-signed fairly reasonably. The question is, can O'Brien get decent performance from him if need be.

Here's the eval from OurLads when he came out of school...
2008 Guide: What Ourlads' NFL Scouting Services said about JOSH JOHNSON: San Diego, 6026 213 4.55. Three-year starter that is smooth and athletic. Can throw accurately on the run. Ran the West Coast offense in college his first three years under Jim Harbaugh. Good touch over the linebackers. Sees the field. Was the MVP of the East-West Shrine game. Slender build. Could stand to gain more muscle weight. Productive over college career (113 TDs, 15 INTs). Has some zip on the short and medium passes, especially when on the run. Will telegraph and lock on to primary receiver at times. Can make plays with his feet. Slippery when pocket breaks down.(sound familiar?) Throws a tight spiral and will overthrow deep balls because of inconsistent speed changes of his wide receivers. Poised. Has a good chance to make a team and develop. A quiet personality that is a good worker and will work to get better. OSR:6/17. Ball velocity was 49 mph which is below average to make the stick throws. Fourth/fifth round. (A-33, H-9, SS-4.45, VJ-33.5).​

...Johnson started his career behind Josh Freeman at Tampa (not exactly the best QB training ground) then went to Cleveland (we know what happens to QBs there). But he still might be salvagable because the above eval tells me he might be more suited to our run/pass option game better than the pocket passer they tried to make him be in Tampa.
Now if we don't just kick him to the curb (see Case Keenum who didn't have the best resume' either) and put some time in grooming him to be ready to step in - if need be - we might already have Watson's back up who wouldn't require throwing out the fun parts of our playbook.

Would I sign someone else? Sure. If you can find someone who is mobile and understands that this is Watson's team and is good with that.
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Excellent post. I mentioned in the past that Taylor would be nice, provided he readily accepted being QB2 on the Texans and I'm not convinced he would accept that. No way has Taylor resigned himself to the idea that the rest of his NFL career will be played out at QB2. If cut, he's going to sign with a team that will give him a legitimate chance at starting and the Texans wouldn't be one of those teams.

I think RG III is a safe, low cost investment at QB2. In essence, he could be used to bridge the gap in either Josh Johnson's progression or the development of a drafted or UDFA QB. It couldn't get any safer than a 1 year deal with a second year option at veteran's minimum contract with bonus incentives.
 
infantrycak said:
You know, that could be taken as an endorsement.
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I have never been impressed with the guy. Heck, we "ALL" (wink wink) know Kaep is a better QB than RGII ever hoped to be, but for some reason, his name is continually left out of the discussion for even a backup QB role.
 
Lucky said:
I really don't, as I haven't really looked at QBs in this class. I would not be surprised though if O'Brien became fond of at least one of the QBs he coached in Mobile. Seems like an O'Brien-ish thing to do.
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Benkert has at least one thing in common with Watson. He has come back from blowing out his ACL in 2015.
 
steelbtexan said:
I suggested getting RGIII up thread and drafting Lauletta.
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Not even getting back into RGIII's injury history............he will continue to be injured in that he has never learned to make smart decisions as to his running.........running has always been his main option. RGIII acutely separates himself from someone like Watson in that in general, he is just not a very bright person and doesn't learn much from experience.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Not even getting back into RGIII's injury history............he will continue to be injured in that he has never learned to make smart decisions as to his running.........running has always been his main option. RGIII acutely separates himself from someone like Watson in that in general, he is just not a very bright person and doesn't learn much from experience.
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And would still probably fair better than Savage.

Talking about Smarts, you just never know, RGIII fooled me, I thought he would be great, (Might have been without Shanny playing him on a bum knee) He was one of the most physically gifted athletes I've ever seen, regardless of position. Honor roll in high school, graduated early from Baylor etc....

He never got proper coaching and played with some bad teams. (Not saying he wasn't a big part of the reason those teams bad)
 
Houston Texans is a product and its image has to be protected. Texans have a lot of self inflicted image problems related to their product but bringing Kaepernick in is probably an image problem the FO has no desire to deal with. I'm not certain that the NFL has blackballed Kaepernick as much as he blackballed his own product. If Kaepernick's stance is of no concern, then why was there any concern in bringing Ray Rice in for a tryout? The backlash for signing Rice would be the same backlash for signing Kaepernick.

RG III pretty much knows he's played himself into career survival mode so he could represent the right type of signing. He possesses the talent, all he has to accomplish is come to camp and be willing to be the best QB2 possible. Could be his best opportunity to regain his chance at starting in the future....with another team.
 
Double Barrel said:
Yep. 32 billionaires deny it, but the truth is in the reality. Nobody can ever convince me that all 32 starting QBs are better than Kaep, much less all the backup QBs. The obvious is. . . obvious.
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I don’t think he has been blackballed, but rather the risk simply isn’t worth it.

If he was a top 10 QB, there’s no doubt in my mind he’d be on a team right now despite all the baggage. But considering he’s probably a borderline starter, is it worth the risk of losing a lot of your fan base, as well as all the distractions that come with him? I don’t think so.

I also wonder if Kaep has been turning down offers to be a backup, or feels he deserves more money than what he’s being offered?

Personally, I don’t want Kaep on the Texans. Not because of his political stances, but rather all of the distractions it will cause. Simply not worth it. Get RG3 instead.
 
dream_team said:
I don’t think he has been blackballed, but rather the risk simply isn’t worth it.

If he was a top 10 QB, there’s no doubt in my mind he’d be on a team right now despite all the baggage. But considering he’s probably a borderline starter, is it worth the risk of losing a lot of your fan base, as well as all the distractions that come with him? I don’t think so.

I also wonder if Kaep has been turning down offers to be a backup, or feels he deserves more money than what he’s being offered?

Personally, I don’t want Kaep on the Texans. Not because of his political stances, but rather all of the distractions it will cause. Simply not worth it. Get RG3 instead.
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The owners / NFL are paid millions to advertise itself as a quasi-patriotic organization. It's all a dog and pony show, but it is what it is.

Kaep's protest, while having nothing to do with the military, was taken personally by a sizeable portion of the fan base. Symbol minded people love them some symbols.

Mike Vick murdered dogs and went to prison. The NFL took him back. There was only some public image scrutiny to manage, but it was not a threat to NFL advertisers.

No, the Kaep protest threatened the revenue stream, and for that he's been punished and blackballed as a result.

RGIII sucks. I'm amazed that any sane football fan would want that broken one-trick-pony loser on their football team. I'd take Fitzmagic any day over that chump.
 
Double Barrel said:
The owners / NFL are paid millions to advertise itself as a quasi-patriotic organization. It's all a dog and pony show, but it is what it is.

Kaep's protest, while having nothing to do with the military, was taken personally by a sizeable portion of the fan base. Symbol minded people love them some symbols.

Mike Vick murdered dogs and went to prison. The NFL took him back. There was only some public image scrutiny to manage, but it was not a threat to NFL advertisers.

No, the Kaep protest threatened the revenue stream, and for that he's been punished and blackballed as a result.

RGIII sucks. I'm amazed that any sane football fan would want that broken one-trick-pony loser on their football team. I'd take Fitzmagic any day over that chump.
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What you say is likely closest to the truth, but it is also true that you cannot take lightly the affront and offense it is to those who have lost loved ones or were seriously maimed who fought under the stars and stripes.
It is what it is.
 
Texansphan said:
What you say is likely closest to the truth, but it is also true that you cannot take lightly the affront and offense it is to those who have lost loved ones or were seriously maimed who fought under the stars and stripes.
It is what it is.
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Quit using the flag as a prop at sporting events. That should be more of an affront to those that lost loved ones under that flag.
 
Texansphan said:
What you say is likely closest to the truth, but it is also true that you cannot take lightly the affront and offense it is to those who have lost loved ones or were seriously maimed who fought under the stars and stripes.
It is what it is.
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You forgot "some." I'm sure you can figure out where.

Clearly this WWII vet wasn't offended:
d1qikntta4cp8k.cloudfront.net
 
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