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Is the OL fixed?

Is the OL fixed?


  • Total voters
    62

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think a project is usually a lower round player that you hope gets better over years. Dominique Barber may fit this. Developmental player is like a QB or corner that you let grow and get used to NFL. Davenport is that to me but got thrown into front lines way too soon. D Brown was developmental guy. We've never had that I can think of a starter that allowed time for a round one guy to sit and grow. So far it seems like Coach agrees with me on Davenport. We are beginning to act like a playoff designed team. I like depth I'm seeing with new UDFAs with RB, Dline and safety. This is how to become the best. Ancient history is just that. We may have just set our o line into place.
Davenport is their guy yet they drafted 2 OT's, both of which can play LT.

OK
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Just my opinion, get rid of Devlin, instant upgrade. Davenport still has potential. Interior is horrible
Davenport has the potential to get Watson killed.

2 Drafted OT's make me think that Gaine knew the need to upgrade the future at OT and that future surely isn't Davenport.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Feet. Neither Howard or Scharping have the foot speed to be Lt.
Yet Davenport does?

LMAO.

If Gaine drafted 2 OT's in the 1st 2 rds and neither one of them are capable of playing at a higher level than Davenport then everybody should be fired and start all over. (Again)
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So how would you fix. All knowing 1
I'm not an all knowing type of person and have strong opinions, if you cant deal with that the either A. Don't respond to me. B. Go fire yourself.

To answer your question, I would sink or swim with the drafted guys, unless Henderson plays really well in TC/Preseason. The Texans aren't winning the SB next yr so let the more athletically gifted young guys get their feet wet and get some experience.
 

bah007

Hall of Fame
This is not necessarily what I would do, more a prediction based on the moves the team has made.

LT - Davenport
LG - Rankin
C - Fulton / Martin
RG - Scharping
RT - Howard

Not saying that's where they all end up. I could see Howard being a LT. But I could see that as our starting point this season. You might not love it but I have a hard time believing that's not better than last year.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
This is not necessarily what I would do, more a prediction based on the moves the team has made.

LT - Davenport
LG - Rankin
C - Fulton / Martin
RG - Scharping
RT - Howard

Not saying that's where they all end up. I could see Howard being a LT. But I could see that as our starting point this season. You might not love it but I have a hard time believing that's not better than last year.
I think Fulton and Martin gone by 2020. Center could be a need and I'd have thought some UDFAs would be looked at this off season.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This is not necessarily what I would do, more a prediction based on the moves the team has made.

LT - Davenport
LG - Rankin
C - Fulton / Martin
RG - Scharping
RT - Howard

Not saying that's where they all end up. I could see Howard being a LT. But I could see that as our starting point this season. You might not love it but I have a hard time believing that's not better than last year.
I'm hoping Howard can play LT.

If he can my starting OL would look like this.

Howard/Rankin/Fulton/Scharping/Henderson.

I also think there's a good chance Scharping is the starting LT next yr. This guy is very underrated.
 

Insideop

All Pro
Feet. Neither Howard or Scharping have the foot speed to be Lt.
Here's some Combine numbers that may help some make up their minds. I'll start with Davenport's numbers from 2017.

Davenport
5.45 sec 40 (1.88 sec 10 yd split)
7.57 sec 3 Cone
4.69 sec Shuttle

Tytus Howard
5.05 sec 40 (1.81 sec 10 yd split)
8.34 sec 3 Cone
4.87 sec Shuttle

Max Scharping
Did not run a 40
7.77 sec 3 Cone
4.69 sec Shuttle

Now let's look at Dillards numbers.
4.96 sec 40 (1.69 sec 10 yd split)
7.44 sec 3 Cone
4.4 sec Shuttle

Now, I know these numbers are not the "be all/end all" stats that determine if a player is going to be a good LT but they are part of the picture that shows if a player has good athletic movement to them or if they are just a plodding oaf. I think we all can agree that Dillards numbers stand out and are far superior to the other 3 and one of the main reasons so many on this board are upset that they (Gaine/BOB) didn't get him when they had the chance. The other part of judging the players athletic ability is the field drills and they usually give a good indication of a players foot speed and lateral quickness. I can't recall seeing any video on Davenport but I'm sure there's probably some out there somewhere. What I saw of Howard's drills at the Combine didn't really impress me much. He seemed slow and heavy. Scharping on the other hand looked to have pretty good feet and lateral movement in the drills I saw. I saw a few of Dillards drills from his Pro-Day and he has excellent feet from what little I saw.

So who will be the Texans LT? Unfortunately, it won't be Dillard, but my guess is they will end up putting Davenport back in there, at least in the short term. Kalil, Howard, or Scharping would have to blow the Texans minds in TC for any of them to take over at LT and I just don't think that will happen. I'm expecting Davenport to improve and secure the position, at least in the early part of the season. It will be a big test for him and if he fails then we might see Kalil or one of the Rookies moved to LT. Personally, I hope he makes it and becomes a solid LT for the Texans. But, this is his last chance! JMO.
 
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JWLCASPER

Waterboy
Here's some Combine numbers that may help some make up their minds. I'll start with Davenport's numbers from 2017.

Davenport
5.45 sec 40 (1.88 sec 10 yd split)
7.57 sec 3 Cone
4.69 sec Shuttle

Tytus Howard
5.05 sec 40 (1.81 sec 10 yd split)
8.34 sec 3 Cone
4.87 sec Shuttle

Max Scharping
Did not run a 40
7.77 sec 3 Cone
4.69 sec Shuttle

Now let's look at Dillards numbers.
4.69 sec 40 (1.69 sec 10 yd split)
7.44 sec 3 Cone
4.4 sec Shuttle

Now, I know these numbers are not the "be all/end all" stats that determine if a player is going to be a good LT but they are part of the picture that shows if a player has good athletic movement to them or if they are just a plodding oaf. I think we all can agree that Dillards numbers stand out and are far superior to the other 3 and one of the main reasons so many on this board are upset that they (Gaine/BOB) didn't get him when they had the chance. The other part of judging the players athletic ability is the field drills and they usually give a good indication of a players foot speed and lateral quickness. I can't recall seeing any video on Davenport but I'm sure there's probably some out there somewhere. What I saw of Howard's drills at the Combine didn't really impress me much. He seemed slow and heavy. Scharping on the other hand looked to have pretty good feet and lateral movement in the drills I saw. I saw a few of Dillards drills from his Pro-Day and he has excellent feet from what little I saw.

So who will be the Texans LT? Unfortunately, it won't be Dillard, but my guess is they will end up putting Davenport back in there, at least in the short term. Kalil, Howard, or Scharping would have to blow the Texans minds in TC for any of them to take over at LT and I just don't think that will happen. I'm expecting Davenport to improve and secure the position, at least in the early part of the season. It will be a big test for him and if he fails then we might see Kalil or one of the Rookies moved to LT. Personally, I hope he makes it and becomes a solid LT for the Texans. But, this is his last chance! JMO.
Insideop, I posted a question to Steel in the Howard threat discussing Dillard vs Howard/Warring together. I would be interested on your thoughts there as well concerning Air Raid Offensive lineman(Dillard) and their lack of success at the NFL level.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This is not necessarily what I would do, more a prediction based on the moves the team has made.

LT - Davenport
LG - Rankin
C - Fulton / Martin
RG - Scharping
RT - Howard

Not saying that's where they all end up. I could see Howard being a LT. But I could see that as our starting point this season. You might not love it but I have a hard time believing that's not better than last year.
That's the way I see it... however, I'd love for Gaine to try to find us a Center before TC.

The goal is to get the best 5 guys starting. & the lineup you got "should" be our most talented. Howard & Sharping would be getting the NFL experience they need & may develop into better LT & RT for 2020. Or not. & we draft a stud LT in next year's draft.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I'm hoping Howard can play LT.

If he can my starting OL would look like this.

Howard/Rankin/Fulton/Scharping/Henderson.

I also think there's a good chance Scharping is the starting LT next yr. This guy is very underrated.
Watched the first half of my 2019 Senior Bowl recording yesterday and we'd better hope & pray that Scharping is not our LT at any time while he's here in Houston.
In that tape thankfully Howard was more impressive with good movement, and with the appearance of general athleticism but Max shore looks more like a guard
than a tackle.
 

Insideop

All Pro
Insideop, I posted a question to Steel in the Howard threat discussing Dillard vs Howard/Warring together. I would be interested on your thoughts there as well concerning Air Raid Offensive lineman(Dillard) and their lack of success at the NFL level.
I know that the knock on Dillard is that he will need work in run blocking and he is more of a "finesse" type of LT with great foot movement and not a "mauler" or power blocker. And, with any "Air Raid" type offense that is more likely to be the case since they pass more than run. As to other "Air Raid" O-linemen's lack of success in the NFL I can only say that it has been a big issue with almost all of the O-linemen coming out of college, regardless of what offensive system they were in, that they are lacking in their development in both run and pass blocking mainly due to the proliferation of the "Spread Offenses," of which the "Air Raid" offense is one. Though I haven't seen any stats on how many O-linemen have failed at the NFL level that come from these offenses in college I have read a few articles in the past that talk about it.

Will Dillard be one of those O-linemen who fail at the NFL level? I don't know. But, he probably went to a team (Eagles) where he has a better chance to develop his run blocking skills than if he came to the Texans, I'm sorry to say! JMO.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Here's some Combine numbers that may help some make up their minds. I'll start with Davenport's numbers from 2017.

Davenport
5.45 sec 40 (1.88 sec 10 yd split)
7.57 sec 3 Cone
4.69 sec Shuttle

Tytus Howard
5.05 sec 40 (1.81 sec 10 yd split)
8.34 sec 3 Cone
4.87 sec Shuttle

Max Scharping
Did not run a 40
7.77 sec 3 Cone
4.69 sec Shuttle

Now let's look at Dillards numbers.
4.96 sec 40 (1.69 sec 10 yd split)
7.44 sec 3 Cone
4.4 sec Shuttle

Now, I know these numbers are not the "be all/end all" stats that determine if a player is going to be a good LT but they are part of the picture that shows if a player has good athletic movement to them or if they are just a plodding oaf. I think we all can agree that Dillards numbers stand out and are far superior to the other 3 and one of the main reasons so many on this board are upset that they (Gaine/BOB) didn't get him when they had the chance. The other part of judging the players athletic ability is the field drills and they usually give a good indication of a players foot speed and lateral quickness. I can't recall seeing any video on Davenport but I'm sure there's probably some out there somewhere. What I saw of Howard's drills at the Combine didn't really impress me much. He seemed slow and heavy. Scharping on the other hand looked to have pretty good feet and lateral movement in the drills I saw. I saw a few of Dillards drills from his Pro-Day and he has excellent feet from what little I saw.

So who will be the Texans LT? Unfortunately, it won't be Dillard, but my guess is they will end up putting Davenport back in there, at least in the short term. Kalil, Howard, or Scharping would have to blow the Texans minds in TC for any of them to take over at LT and I just don't think that will happen. I'm expecting Davenport to improve and secure the position, at least in the early part of the season. It will be a big test for him and if he fails then we might see Kalil or one of the Rookies moved to LT. Personally, I hope he makes it and becomes a solid LT for the Texans. But, this is his last chance! JMO.
With Tytus 3 cone being an outlier in comparison to his general athleticism seen on film I think it’s more a case of a guy not training for a drill properly than being that poor with movement. You watch the film of these OTs doing sport specific movements like chopping their feet and forming the pocket/mirroring pass rushers it’s evident that Dillard and Howard have the LT “bend” and movement skills. Whereas Davenport and Scharping are a bit more stiff in their movements.

Not saying that DQs them from playing LT but Dillard/Howard have the superior “bend” and feet to play the position.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
I know that the knock on Dillard is that he will need work in run blocking and he is more of a "finesse" type of LT with great foot movement and not a "mauler" or power blocker. And, with any "Air Raid" type offense that is more likely to be the case since they pass more than run. As to other "Air Raid" O-linemen's lack of success in the NFL I can only say that it has been a big issue with almost all of the O-linemen coming out of college, regardless of what offensive system they were in, that they are lacking in their development in both run and pass blocking mainly due to the proliferation of the "Spread Offenses," of which the "Air Raid" offense is one. Though I haven't seen any stats on how many O-linemen have failed at the NFL level that come from these offenses in college I have read a few articles in the past that talk about it.

Will Dillard be one of those O-linemen who fail at the NFL level? I don't know. But, he probably went to a team (Eagles) where he has a better chance to develop his run blocking skills than if he came to the Texans, I'm sorry to say! JMO.

This does seem to be the case.

Either we have a bunch of dolts for O linemen or we have a peter principle Oline coach.

:coffee:
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I don't recall Martin ever having to compete for his job. I would like to see what Fulton could do at center.
He can more than handle that position. During his time with KC, Fulton mostly spent time at LG and center. They especially liked him when he played center, as the "mean streak" he played as LG carried over to center..........a position not typically known for being manned by some nasty.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Patriots also made an offer to keep him. So the Raiders thought he was worth it, but the Patriots did not. I’d rather be on the side of the Patriots than the Raiders.
You got your wish.

We will see how it turns out.

One thing is for sure, Gaine was very passive in the draft/fa. This doesn't bode well for the future.
 

Earl34

Veteran
He can more than handle that position. During his time with KC, Fulton mostly spent time at LG and center. They especially liked him when he played center, as the "mean streak" he played as LG carried over to center..........a position not typically known for being manned by some nasty.
What is it with former Chiefs linemen and the Texans? It seems like the Jeff Allen situation all over again.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Is the OL fixed ?

I hope so …. but probably not.
I may get a black eye for saying this, but IMO the Texans have significantly more OL talent and potential than they did before the draft. They certainly put their draft resources into the OL. Whether it was done in the most advantageous way remains to be seen and has been discussed here ad nauseum (I repeat, AD NAUSEUM), but OB & Gaine took what they considered their best swings in their time at the plate.

The two new OLinemen aren't solid pros yet and may never be, but I have a lot of hope and look forward to watching the journey. Only time will tell.
So, the O Line isn't fixed yet, but I'm much more optimistic than I was before the draft.
Much. More. Optimistic.

As for the continuing Dillard angst, I'm over it. He's gone elsewhere, it's done and over. Let that bruise heal.
 
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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I may get a black eye for saying this, but IMO the Texans have significantly more OL talent and potential than they did before the draft. They certainly put their draft resources into the OL. Whether it was done in the most advantageous way remains to be seen and has been discussed here ad nauseum (I repeat, AD NAUSEUM), but OB & Gaine took what they considered their best swings in their time at the plate. The two new OLinemen aren't solid pros yet and may never be, but I have a lot of hope and look forward to watching the journey. Only time will tell.
So, the O Line isn't fixed yet, but I'm much more optimistic than I was before the draft.
Much. More. Optimistic.
As for the continuing Dillard angst, I'm over it. He's gone elsewhere, it's done and over. Let that bruise heal.

I do agree there is a lot more talent there than last year …. and they did what I said they needed to do , take two OL and two Corners.

I didn't care about Dillard either …

The issue I have is that neither of those OT's appear to be NFL ready.

You take a guy in the first round you expect he starts out of the gate in most situations , especially when you have arguably the leagues worst unit at his position group.

The other issue is , there were more talented players at other positions (Of Need) available. No corners off the board , no WR's or RB's taken … and they panic and reach for a project.

Literally , that draft could not have fallen any more favorably for the Texans and somehow , they left me feeling like they screwed it up.

Left me feeling like Tricky Rick was still at the wheel of this franchise ….again.


I'm optimistic that eventually both those drafted players contribute …. but this is a team with aspirations of a deep playoff run or is it ? …. Did they help themselves in that regard reaching for projects?


Yeah , they have more talent …. but that's not saying much when your OL was the leagues worst.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans!!!
I think as the NFL progresses towards spread offenses, the chances of picking up a solid left or right tackle via FA is going to get tougher if not impossible. These two positions will become must pay. Teams may not wait for top performing tackles to become FA's to initiate talks.....those talks probably start happening before the final year arrives.

Another spot that will become highly cherished.....the OL Coach. Teams are going to have to find their tackles in the draft and completely groom them. The only way this is going to be successful, teams better have a great instructor who can teach technique and implement an offensive blocking scheme. Me personally, I'd have no issue seeing teams pursuing great OL coaches for the college ranks since most of them have been completely indoctrinated in creating schemes for the spread offense.

I think the Texans possess some very good upside players for the OL but due to OB's inability to decide exactly what type of offense he wants, the personnel to execute his offense, and the OL Coach to both teach and execute the plan then this will continue to be a cluster duck of hope.

Unfortunately, Howard and Davenport are going to have to be taught to man the LT position. Khalil should be there as the veteran mentor and backup when needed but mostly as that second coach on the sidelines who can quickly be in their ear.

I'd be truly relieved to see Rankin listed as the teams LG going into off-season work.

OB and Devlin must identify their lineman and their OL position and put the onus on them to learn and master the position before making them a jack of all trades along the OL.

Texans have 10 OL who need to learn and master the position.

LT- Davenport, Khalil, Howard
LG- Rankins, Kelemete
OC- Martin, Mancz
RG- Fulton, Mancz
RT- Henderson, Scharping

**I'm not concerned in regards to Mancz, he's probably the best Center on the roster and easily can cover RG with little to no downgrade.**

Anyhow, this group would be required, in my world, to take every snap at these assigned positions until Pre-Season Game 3. Give each of them equal reps with the 1st team to better assess their abilities. This would simply become Devlin's last opportunity, and maybe even OB's, to prove they have what it takes to coach up these athletes and instill a scheme they will stick with through the season.
 

Dejaview

Rookie
You got your wish.

We will see how it turns out.

One thing is for sure, Gaine was very passive in the draft/fa. This doesn't bode well for the future.
Don’t know how much clearer he has to state it for some, but BG came on board stating he is all about building through the draft with his type of player. He’s had all of I think 12 draft choices. Some here thinks he reaches for need instead of taking BPA. His first choice ever was Reid. Need reach at 3? Honey Badger proves he is a passive FA GM....or maybe he, at this extremely young stage of his career, is managing his capital instead of blowing it on a Black Friday for stuff he doesn’t want.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Don’t know how much clearer he has to state it for some, but BG came on board stating he is all about building through the draft with his type of player. He’s had all of I think 12 draft choices. Some here thinks he reaches for need instead of taking BPA. His first choice ever was Reid. Need reach at 3? Honey Badger proves he is a passive FA GM....or maybe he, at this extremely young stage of his career, is managing his capital instead of blowing it on a Black Friday for stuff he doesn’t want.
It's not just draft capital, it's also the FA market.

Other teams are making moves in the draft/FA markets.

Texans are doing what the Texans have done since 2010.

Speaking of being clear, clearly the Texans philosophy has lead to mediocrity over the last decade and nothing has changed since Gaine has become GM.
 


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