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Is O'Brien finished shaping roster?

That way the players can maximize their earning potential during the prime of their careers. It's actually pretty smart of them.
Exactly, kinda like the opposite of Clowny. Turns down Browns for unsure reasons. Many think he wants 17m per. But, most players will sign a 2-3yr deal and if they play well ask for more or become a FA and get more.

From a player perspective it's very smart.
2yr 5mil per
FA/resign 10mil per if a FA maybe they can get 12. And the deal is still only 3-ish years. So...
100% be a FA and make maybe more

So in say 5yrs they make 40mil maybe more. If they play well and avoid any big injury. VS signing a 5yr deal for 5-7 and making 35-ish. So doing shorter deals makes them (in my example) 5mil more over 5yrs. True if hurt or poor play then they are in trouble. However, 5mil is a good chunk of money. All for treating contact negotiating like the stock market... only many owners will be happy to do it
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
What are you (pleural) willing to give up to get Jets to agree? I'd offer McKinney, Manz and Eric Murray and Carlos Watkins.
That’s a trade I could get behind. But the Jets would, and should, get more. Plus they just paid Mosley. They don’t have a need for McKinney.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Bill O’Brien IS the singular biggest laughingstock of the NFL. Every time a player is being rumored as being on the trading block BoB trends on Twitter. And not in a flattering manner.
You care what others think?

Well I guess in your new line of work you do.

I dont mean this badly.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
What are you (pleural) willing to give up to get Jets to agree? I'd offer McKinney, Manz and Eric Murray and Carlos Watkins.
I'd be good with that deal as well! But if I was the Jets, there's no way I'd want that deal. I want draft picks or young prospects. I suspect the Jets will start off negotiations with a 1st round pick.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
That’s a trade I could get behind. But the Jets would, and should, get more. Plus they just paid Mosley. They don’t have a need for McKinney.
CJ missed 14 games 2019 due to groin/core injury and I think there should be great concern for his health. His contract was signed March 2019 and has most of that banked already.
$7.5 signing bonus, 10.5 2019 roster, 13.0 base 2019 and 2020 roster is 10 m. That's $41 already with rest of GTD at signing locked in Sept of this year. Nothing Jets can do about money but lots they could do for insurance. $20 m cap space covers guys I offered and they play 3-4 defense so Bednardrick starts next to Mosely anywho.

Should get and would get ain't the same and two starters in MC and Eric Murray, possible starter at OG in Manz and solid backup in Watkins helps NY now which they need more than picks a year from now.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I'd be good with that deal as well! But if I was the Jets, there's no way I'd want that deal. I want draft picks or young prospects. I suspect the Jets will start off negotiations with a 1st round pick.
You would turn down two starters in their prime plus two more guys that make roster better for a first and maybe something else in 2021? Dallas only team listed that might get you a top 15 pick...i don't see that deal over mine.
 

OptimisticTexan

6 Years- 1 Game and Counting!!!!
I'm not to certain I'm ready to part with Fuller but to get the Jets attention maybe offer OLB-Mercilus, S-Murray, one of the TE's (Griffin is their current TE1) and WR-Stills. I think the Jets would like to add more weapons for Sam Darnold. With no real 2021 picks to offer and in no way do I part with a 2022 pick, the Texans would have to include some fairly decent, start today, type of players to get the Jets attention. Mercilus, Stills and one of the TE's could be upgrades and starters right away and Murray could be a starter by default, mostly to fill the void left by Adams.

Get Adams, then turn around and sign Clowney. I'd like to see what the defense could do by having Greenard possibly playing Mercilus and having Clowney at DE. The more pressure put on opposing QB's the better chance the Texans CB's have at enjoying some success b/c lets be honest, the weakest spot on defense would be the CB's if Adams and Clowney were obtained.
 
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dream_team

Hall of Fame
You would turn down two starters in their prime plus two more guys that make roster better for a first and maybe something else in 2021? Dallas only team listed that might get you a top 15 pick...i don't see that deal over mine.
McKinney is the only starter in that list. Murray is an overpaid career backup. Mancz is a solid backup C. Watkins is rarely active for games.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
McKinney is the only starter in that list. Murray is an overpaid career backup. Mancz is a solid backup C. Watkins is rarely active for games.
On Texans perhaps but you are wrong on their roles as Jets. Manz would have good chance at OG in New York. Carlos Watkins played behind Watt and in 2019 was in rotation with Reader and Blackson when JJ was hurt. What I saw of him I liked but he would have stronger role in NY.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Per source the Jets DID offer the #Texans Jamal Adams the day before the 2020 NFL draft. Benardrick McKinney was the main player on our part. But the Jets wanted more and we weren't willing.

With less leverage now, a deal could be imminent.
— Texans Thoughts (@Texans_Thoughts) June 18, 2020
That would be amazing but Mercilus not going IMO but Jets cap could handle both.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Lol! I can't believe people are actually discussing trade deals for Adams when the price is extremely high

AND

A. The Texans don't have draft picks remember? Apparently not.
B. The Texans don't have a great salary cap anymore to afford what he'd want to get paid.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Lol! I can't believe people are actually discussing trade deals for Adams when the price is extremely high

AND

A. The Texans don't have draft picks remember? Apparently not.
B. The Texans don't have a great salary cap anymore to afford what he'd want to get paid.
and as you often do cloud what is said. Texans in 2019 traded two round ones, the latter being for a draft two drafts ahead. They do have a first in 2022 that can be traded. Price Jets reportedly asking is window sticker and may not be final for a trade. Jets could accept a starter they need and a 3rd in 2021 which we do have.
It is reported that Adams will not demand an Extension if traded to certain teams. His average cost for next two years is Apprx 8.5 million and that is easily absorbed 2020. We do not know what cap for 21 will be or if NFL will allow teams to move future cap into 21 if needed. NFL did change the amounts teams can borrow to pay bills so adjustments are already being made to respond to Covid 19.

If you don't want to discuss possible trade scenarios then don't.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
and as you often do cloud what is said. Texans in 2019 traded two round ones, the latter being for a draft two drafts ahead. They do have a first in 2022 that can be traded. Price Jets reportedly asking is window sticker and may not be final for a trade. Jets could accept a starter they need and a 3rd in 2021 which we do have.
It is reported that Adams will not demand an Extension if traded to certain teams. His average cost for next two years is Apprx 8.5 million and that is easily absorbed 2020. We do not know what cap for 21 will be or if NFL will allow teams to move future cap into 21 if needed. NFL did change the amounts teams can borrow to pay bills so adjustments are already being made to respond to Covid 19.

If you don't want to discuss possible trade scenarios then don't.
The only "as usual" thing is your bad take.

Now you're suggesting that the Texans should trade more first round picks, as if losing 4 out of the last 5 1st round picks from drafts heading into 2022 wasn't enough? What franchise in their right mind has ever done that? Zero, that's who.

Man Texan fans have gone full blown idiotic. You guys actually think you can still do blockbuster trades? Lol!

The fans are getting worse than O'Brien at this point. Even he knows he can't make this trade. SMH
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
The only "as usual" thing is your bad take.

Now you're suggesting that the Texans should trade more first round picks, as if losing 4 out of the last 5 1st round picks from drafts heading into 2022 wasn't enough? What franchise in their right mind has ever done that? Zero, that's who.

Man Texan fans have gone full blown idiotic. You guys actually think you can still do blockbuster trades? Lol!

The fans are getting worse than O'Brien at this point. Even he knows he can't make this trade. SMH
Shake your head or your booty. You have no clue what Bill is thinking and the link posted said a trade was discussed, so it's not out of realm of possibility. I would trade a first round two years away for a two year all pro and throw in McKinney to sweeten of needed. We have done quite well trading first round picks. We didn't lose them. You just blow out your BVDs if someone does not agree with you..move along lil doggie move along.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Shake your head or your booty. You have no clue what Bill is thinking and the link posted said a trade was discussed, so it's not out of realm of possibility. I would trade a first round two years away for a two year all pro and throw in McKinney to sweeten of needed. We have done quite well trading first round picks. We didn't lose them.
How many times do teams trade a top player for a 1st round draft pick two years away? Lol! God that would be stupid of them, and the idea that the Texans or any franchise should just continue on every season without a first round pick or the advantage of the rookie contracts would be marginally stupid as well. Your suggestion is that 1st round picks are pretty much worthless to have, and NO ONE thinks that BUT YOU. As a matter of fact pretty much everyone around the league, in the league, and who watches the league thinks OB is a moron, and you're here arguing for the same lop sided trades still that made most people think he's a moron. That's what homers do on this site though, so it isn't exactly shocking.


You just blow out your BVDs if someone does not agree with you..move along lil doggie move along. Shake your head or your booty.
Seriously, is this what you call trash talk? This is lamest crap I've ever heard. Suspect. Lol!
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Chris Jones has returned to KC but Jags now reportedly accepting offers for Yannick Ngayoue. Jags drafted Chaisson and could use incoming trade to improve. Texans offered McKinney and should up offer to get Jamal Adams from Jets. Either would greatly improve defense.
I Understand that NFL and NFLPA are negotiating how to move passed losses income anticipated for this season and next. Players want to spread over several future years to diminish impact on any one year. Team owners want to take hit immediately. Seems to me as with baseball, owners trying to stick it to players.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Chris Jones has returned to KC but Jags now reportedly accepting offers for Yannick Ngayoue. Jags drafted Chaisson and could use incoming trade to improve. Texans offered McKinney and should up offer to get Jamal Adams from Jets. Either would greatly improve defense.
I Understand that NFL and NFLPA are negotiating how to move passed losses income anticipated for this season and next. Players want to spread over several future years to diminish impact on any one year. Team owners want to take hit immediately. Seems to me as with baseball, owners trying to stick it to players.
When the $$$$ isn't there it's smart to take the loss now rather than prolonging the pain.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
When the $$$$ isn't there it's smart to take the loss now rather than prolonging the pain.
In some situation, yes but IMO not in this. Unlike some have posted, I do not see Covid ending NFL forever. NFL has been the golden goose and spreading loss allows Cap to remain more steady bringing continued money to both sides.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
Chris Jones has returned to KC but Jags now reportedly accepting offers for Yannick Ngayoue. Jags drafted Chaisson and could use incoming trade to improve. Texans offered McKinney and should up offer to get Jamal Adams from Jets. Either would greatly improve defense.
I Understand that NFL and NFLPA are negotiating how to move passed losses income anticipated for this season and next. Players want to spread over several future years to diminish impact on any one year. Team owners want to take hit immediately. Seems to me as with baseball, owners trying to stick it to players.
earlier today CBS stated still unclear if Yannick will play for Jags this season or do a Le'Veon Bell despite how that came to pass. It is noted that Yannick is firm about not playing for Jags. OTOH, it is hard for most to think he will be willing to give up the almost $18 m GTD for 2020. Both sides IMO are using C19 to delay. We all remember situation with Duane Brown. My guess he will return to Jags and I'm puzzled as to why they have not used the Mahomes formula to resolve. The Ace they have up sleeve is Klavon Chaisson (1.20 in recent draft). He should be ready to start this season. One reason I bring this up Jags should be interested in bringing in Zac Cunningham on his final contract year at cheap cost in the event a vet needs to allow Chaisson more time and to be injury insurance and quality depth.
I recently saw a Texans fan suggest Stills and McKinney could be enough to create a trade. I like that but would prefer Fuller and Cunningham as the offer. This does not bring the first rounder that David Caldwell wants. No team that can afford Yannick even at a lower than $20 +m avg he has voiced has offered a first or second round.
Of course, Jags will not want to face a PO player twice a year regular season. They also should not let that stop them from bringing in two starters at very good costs that can be moved after this season if needed.

Texans can afford Yannick without any other moves. My suggestion also allows for McKinney to be part of a deal for Jets Adams.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
earlier today CBS stated still unclear if Yannick will play for Jags this season or do a Le'Veon Bell despite how that came to pass. It is noted that Yannick is firm about not playing for Jags. OTOH, it is hard for most to think he will be willing to give up the almost $18 m GTD for 2020. Both sides IMO are using C19 to delay. We all remember situation with Duane Brown. My guess he will return to Jags and I'm puzzled as to why they have not used the Mahomes formula to resolve. The Ace they have up sleeve is Klavon Chaisson (1.20 in recent draft). He should be ready to start this season. One reason I bring this up Jags should be interested in bringing in Zac Cunningham on his final contract year at cheap cost in the event a vet needs to allow Chaisson more time and to be injury insurance and quality depth.
I recently saw a Texans fan suggest Stills and McKinney could be enough to create a trade. I like that but would prefer Fuller and Cunningham as the offer. This does not bring the first rounder that David Caldwell wants. No team that can afford Yannick even at a lower than $20 +m avg he has voiced has offered a first or second round.
Of course, Jags will not want to face a PO player twice a year regular season. They also should not let that stop them from bringing in two starters at very good costs that can be moved after this season if needed.

Texans can afford Yannick without any other moves. My suggestion also allows for McKinney to be part of a deal for Jets Adams.
Why not Fuller and McKinney? I like keeping Cunningham better vs McKinney. My thought is like most in assuming the NFL takes a hit on earnings this season, then the effect of a potential smaller cap will be advantageous to teams negotiating contracts next year. While at the same time giving you more $$$ for flexibility this year.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
Why not Fuller and McKinney? I like keeping Cunningham better vs McKinney. My thought is like most in assuming the NFL takes a hit on earnings this season, then the effect of a potential smaller cap will be advantageous to teams negotiating contracts next year. While at the same time giving you more $$$ for flexibility this year.
TBH, and this will be an unpopular opinion, I don’t think the Texans linebacker group is any kind of special. They’re all replaceable.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
TBH, and this will be an unpopular opinion, I don’t think the Texans linebacker group is any kind of special. They’re all replaceable.
PFF recently rated LB group at #4 although I think that's too high. They noted both starters Cunningham and McKinney are aces at run stopping but weak in cov'g. Cunningham was alternate pro bowler 2019. I agree everyone is replaceable..for right deal.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
PFF recently rated LB group at #4 although I think that's too high. They noted both starters Cunningham and McKinney are aces at run stopping but weak in cov'g. Cunningham was alternate pro bowler 2019. I agree everyone is replaceable..for right deal.
I read that too. Great against the run, awful against the pass. They aren’t a balanced group.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Why not Fuller and McKinney? I like keeping Cunningham better vs McKinney. My thought is like most in assuming the NFL takes a hit on earnings this season, then the effect of a potential smaller cap will be advantageous to teams negotiating contracts next year. While at the same time giving you more $$$ for flexibility this year.
Because I want Fuller to trade for Adams. He is higher risk/higher reward than Stills and Jets should be more willing to accept Fuller than Jags. Jags had interesting draft that could move them significantly Upward in the win column. They gambled with 2nd round wide receiver Laviska Shenault who can play all spots. Needs to remain healthy. We have heard that somewhere before.

I am working on two draft proposals to present to MB later today.
 

OptimisticTexan

6 Years- 1 Game and Counting!!!!
Because I want Fuller to trade for Adams. He is higher risk/higher reward than Stills and Jets should be more willing to accept Fuller than Jags. Jags had interesting draft that could move them significantly Upward in the win column. They gambled with 2nd round wide receiver Laviska Shenault who can play all spots. Needs to remain healthy. We have heard that somewhere before.

I am working on two draft proposals to present to MB later today.
I still think there could be interest if the Texans offered up a WR and remember, the Jets are starting Griffin at TE. This might be enough to start the talks for Adams but the Texans would still need to sweeten the pot with another player.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
How many cover linebackers out there? And which ones are available right now?


We want say their replaceable but who are you bringing in. Cunningham is number 2 on solo tackles. That pretty darn special imo.

IMHO Cunningham is clearly the best of the bunch (and it's really not that close) and he'll probably be the one they lose because of the bloated Mercilus and McKinney contracts. 2022 is when they can cut bait with both of them but that'll be too late to keep Cunningham unless they tag him. They'll still be unable to cover. And the Texans defense as a whole are less than average against the pass. Our own eyes can tell us that and the stats only affirm what we see.
 

OptimisticTexan

6 Years- 1 Game and Counting!!!!
IMHO Cunningham is clearly the best of the bunch (and it's really not that close) and he'll probably be the one they lose because of the bloated Mercilus and McKinney contracts. 2022 is when they can cut bait with both of them but that'll be too late to keep Cunningham unless they tag him. They'll still be unable to cover. And the Texans defense as a whole are less than average against the pass. Our own eyes can tell us that and the stats only affirm what we see.
4-3 defense b/c the Texans just don't have the best 4 LB'er personnel. I'd love to see the Texans target or find one the "Hybrid" ILB/SS types......6-3 or 6-4 at 225 to 235 lbs.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
IMHO Cunningham is clearly the best of the bunch (and it's really not that close) and he'll probably be the one they lose because of the bloated Mercilus and McKinney contracts. 2022 is when they can cut bait with both of them but that'll be too late to keep Cunningham unless they tag him. They'll still be unable to cover. And the Texans defense as a whole are less than average against the pass. Our own eyes can tell us that and the stats only affirm what we see.
They will have to either tag him or trade either Merc or Mac. Cunningham imo is a keeper.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
IMHO Cunningham is clearly the best of the bunch (and it's really not that close) and he'll probably be the one they lose because of the bloated Mercilus and McKinney contracts. 2022 is when they can cut bait with both of them but that'll be too late to keep Cunningham unless they tag him. They'll still be unable to cover. And the Texans defense as a whole are less than average against the pass. Our own eyes can tell us that and the stats only affirm what we see.
Mercilus is 2022 but they can get relief from McKinney after 2020. McKinney was my target for trade because of that and he could've been useful to a team with the right fit and given OB loot for versatility for adding something to the OL or elsewhere.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
How many cover linebackers out there? And which ones are available right now?


We want say their replaceable but who are you bringing in. Cunningham is number 2 on solo tackles. That pretty darn special imo.

Cunningham was my favorite defensive player in that draft. I thought he was gonna be the answer to the problems of defending TE's ....

Cunningham's contact expires after this season. I can't see paying him a whole heck of a lot in an extension either.
Just don't believe you can have a successful defense with both he and McKinney in the middle.
One or the other has to be replaced with a guy who can cover a baby TE with a blanket.
McKinney gave up a ridiculous 89.7% completion rate last year and Cunningham 77.6%.

McKinney is a better run defender and generates more pressure on the QB when given the opportunity as well. He's also under contract thru 2023 for a reasonable amount , assuming the cap doesn't crater due to Covid. If so , he has a minimal amount of dead money if he were to be let go - 1.5m for this season , 750k for next and 0 for 2023.


Cunningham has 1 Int , 3.5 sacks and 3 FF in 3 seasons , add to that a 76.7% rate of completion against - That's all unacceptable.


The problem is how you replace Cunningham - Not having premium draft picks in the next draft and the fact that they will not have much to spend in FA ....
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Cunningham was my favorite defensive player in that draft. I thought he was gonna be the answer to the problems of defending TE's ....

Cunningham's contact expires after this season. I can't see paying him a whole heck of a lot in an extension either.
Just don't believe you can have a successful defense with both he and McKinney in the middle.
One or the other has to be replaced with a guy who can cover a baby TE with a blanket.
McKinney gave up a ridiculous 89.7% completion rate last year and Cunningham 77.6%.

McKinney is a better run defender and generates more pressure on the QB when given the opportunity as well. He's also under contract thru 2023 for a reasonable amount , assuming the cap doesn't crater due to Covid. If so , he has a minimal amount of dead money if he were to be let go - 1.5m for this season , 750k for next and 0 for 2023.


Cunningham has 1 Int , 3.5 sacks and 3 FF in 3 seasons , add to that a 76.7% rate of completion against - That's all unacceptable.


The problem is how you replace Cunningham - Not having premium draft picks in the next draft and the fact that they will not have much to spend in FA ....
Cunningham is not tasked to get after the qb. Every blue in the moon RAC would send him on a blitz. So how is that his fault. Last season Cunningham was the best run defender. Now BMac done somethings that will not show up on the stats.

There was quite of few rumors out there about the Texans trying to trade BMac.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
Cunningham is not tasked to get after the qb. Every blue in the moon RAC would send him on a blitz. So how is that his fault. Last season Cunningham was the best run defender. Now BMac done somethings that will not show up on the stats.

There was quite of few rumors out there about the Texans trying to trade BMac.
And that’s another thing-the pass rush. Mercilus shows up in the pass rush too infrequent to make much of a difference. The rest of the LB’s are no threat to disrupting the passer.

The Texans better get a consistent pass rush from an unlikely source because they’re not going to get much from the LB’s. The Texans need a new game wrecker because Watt isn’t that guy anymore.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
And that’s another thing-the pass rush. Mercilus shows up in the pass rush too infrequent to make much of a difference. The rest of the LB’s are no threat to disrupting the passer.

The Texans better get a consistent pass rush from an unlikely source because they’re not going to get much from the LB’s. The Texans need a new game wrecker because Watt isn’t that guy anymore.
Hopefully Coach Weaver will do something’s differently than RAC. RAC just didn’t get creative enough with his blitz schemes. He was relying on Watt and somewhat Clowney too much.
 


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