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Is O'Brien finished shaping roster?

badboy

Hall of Fame
You could still pick up a solid player like they did when they traded a guy that was about to be cut to the Chiefs for a guy (Hyde) who was about to be cut and gave the Texans a solid season at a position of need.

Kelemete is a versatile OL that could come in handy to trade at the end of TC to fill a position of need.
Good point! I have been pushing a trade or cut of Senio for two seasons. A trade pre-June or post June 1st opens $2.8 million cap space. I am hoping he has a healthy TC and preseason. He plays a priority position (offensive line) that allows average, oft injured guys to have value. My concern is just that as we have little depth there and if he practices well, Coach may keep him.
 
Good point! I have been pushing a trade or cut of Senio for two seasons. A trade pre-June or post June 1st opens $2.8 million cap space. I am hoping he has a healthy TC and preseason. He plays a priority position (offensive line) that allows average, oft injured guys to have value. My concern is just that as we have little depth there and if he practices well, Coach may keep him.
Heck/Rod Jo/Mancz etc... should be able to cover the backup roles.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I know lots of people disagree with me on this, but I am still horrified by the WR corps we are going into the season with. This is not a championship WR corps. We have no big time play makers, and all of them are short and injury prone. 5'10", 5'10", 6'0" and 6'1", and chances are one or two of them don't play the entire season. Unless you have Tom Brady in his prime throwing to these guys, I have no confidence in our WRs. The loss of Hopkins is gonna show really fast.
Our WR corps was designed to fit Dashaun's skill sets. Hopkins was limited last season having to come back in his routes to bail out #4. Hopefully our line will improve enough to give him time to launch. These guys have speed to go get the rock. Fuller's speed has shown what can occur if Watson can get ball out. David Johnson needs to be Watson's guy if he's scrambling not our best WR. If Watson cannot get ball to them, he needs to go. I understand your concern about their health and Hopkins taking his stats with him.
 
Our WR corps was designed to fit Dashaun's skill sets. Hopkins was limited last season having to come back in his routes to bail out #4. Hopefully our line will improve enough to give him time to launch. These guys have speed to go get the rock. Fuller's speed has shown what can occur if Watson can get ball out. David Johnson needs to be Watson's guy if he's scrambling not our best WR. If Watson cannot get ball to them, he needs to go. I understand your concern about their health and Hopkins taking his stats with him.
Oh, I'm sure several members will figure out a way to explain a way this post.
 

RGV82

Random guy
They tried to re-sign Hyde for 1 yr 5 mil and Hyde turned them down.

Hyde's about to find out how the NFL works. You figure with his history he would've known better. His agent and by proxy Hyde must be dumb as a box of rocks.
I’m aware of this. We made the offer he turned down. He’ll test the market and have no takers. He woulda came back for less if DJ wasn’t here.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I’m aware of this. We made the offer he turned down. He’ll test the market and have no takers. He woulda came back for less if DJ wasn’t here.
I am unsure Hyde fits model going forward that OBrien wants in his RBs. Hyde doesn't offer much as a receiver and why David Johnson brought in. The plan seems to be give Watson greatest opportunities to get us to Super Bowl.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Unless you have Tom Brady in his prime throwing to these guys, I have no confidence in our WRs. The loss of Hopkins is gonna show really fast.
Hopefully we'll have a running game to share the load so it's hardly noticeable
 
2016 DJ is never coming back. Accept that. 300 carries and 80 receptions never happens twice in a players career. DJ looked so good because their entire offense revolves around him. The NY Jets learned that the hard way expecting the same Leveon Bell that played for the Steelers.
I certainly dont think this will happen. But DJ said he's healthy and ready to go. So who am I to question him. If he's what he says he is wouldn't you agree this offense has a chance to be special?

Cant you be optimistic?
 

RGV82

Random guy
I certainly dont think this will happen. But DJ said he's healthy and ready to go. So who am I to question him. If he's what he says he is wouldn't you agree this offense has a chance to be special?

Cant you be optimistic?
I’m realistic. We have a one hit wonder new RB David Johnson talking the talk, who is going to somehow be paired with Duke Johnson. I expect some level of success from this but am just tired of people expecting a 2016 repeat.
 
I’m realistic. We have a one hit wonder new RB David Johnson talking the talk, who is going to somehow be paired with Duke Johnson. I expect some level of success from this but am just tired of people expecting a 2016 repeat.
I'm not expecting a 2016 repeat, but I'm expecting him if healthy to have a better overall yr including receptions by running routes out of the backfield than Hyde did.

I will admit that after the Sr Bowl that DJ played in and watching practices I was very high on him. (Something that I understand that you dont care to spend your time on.)
 

RGV82

Random guy
I agree many are saying he has to repeat 2016 but doesn't to be successful in this offense in my view.
Absolutely. If they find a way for him and Duke to compliment each other our backfield can be successful.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Can we get back to thread topic? I would offer Stills, McKinney and Fulton to Detroit for LT Tyrell Crosby, DE Okwura and OG Jonah Jackson. Our three starters for their three projected backups. It fits their cap.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Can we get back to thread topic? I would offer Stills, McKinney and Fulton to Detroit for LT Tyrell Crosby, DE Okwura and OG Jonah Jackson. Our three starters for their three projected backups. It fits their cap.
Why would they want to trade their young guys and what would the Texans do for WR?
 
Absolutely. If they find a way for him and Duke to compliment each other our backfield can be successful.
Biggest thing we need Johnson and Johnson to do is pound out a few yards, let the WR and Watson have some rest and be the short game threat to compliment the deep threat of the speedy WR group. Throw in a decent TE, what we hope Warring is, and Watson constant threat of taking off running and it would be extremely hard for a defense to cover everything.

All that is what the offense looks like on paper. In reality our WRs have trouble staying healthy, Watson has various issues that can be overcame put not by constantly trying to fit a round peg in a square hole, either OB or Watson seem to forget that TEs exist and we have now two of the very type of RBs that OB can’t seem to make work.

Do I have hope for the season, of course, if I thought they had no chance, and weren’t tanking for a big pick, then I wouldn’t bother watching or caring. Hope however isn’t enough to make me overlook some very deep flaws in our plan this season. On the other hand at least we aren’t just doing the same thing as last season and hoping for a different result.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Kdog believes that a OB has been making every decision, except the good ones, since he literally walked in the door. So yeah that first draft in 2014 that he was coach for, any bad picks in that draft and every draft after OB made.
He's basically made the final call on every major decision, good or bad (mostly bad). At this point it's obvious.

He has said so many times and it's been reported many times.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Can we get back to thread topic? I would offer Stills, McKinney and Fulton to Detroit for LT Tyrell Crosby, DE Okwura and OG Jonah Jackson. Our three starters for their three projected backups. It fits their cap.
Everyone knows O'Brien would accept much less value for these guys. They could probably offer a 6th rounder for each
 

Mangler

Veteran
He's basically made the final call on every major decision, good or bad (mostly bad). At this point it's obvious.

He has said so many times and it's been reported many times.
He has also publicly admitted that developing talent is “too hard.” We probably can kiss 1st and 2nd round picks for the next 4-5 years good-bye. I hope this approach works because if he can’t develop talent and can’t bring in the right vets, what the phook IS he good at?
 
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Earl34

Veteran
Plus Hyde had a career best season and was offered a contract by OBrien. He turned it down.
Just out of curiosity alone. I wonder what would have happened if Hyde accepted the contract offer. Would O'Brien still trade for Johnson, would he find another trade partner or would Hopkins still be on the roster. It doesn't matter now, but it would have been interesting to see what roster moves would have happened after signing Hyde.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
He has also publicly admitted that developing talent is “too hard.” We probably can kiss 1st and 2nd round picks for the next 4-5 years good-bye. I hope this approach works because if he can’t develop talent and can’t bring in the right vets, what the phook IS he good at?
Well he is pretty good with media relations......err...
but he is a pretty good contract negotiator.........I mean.....
he is real solid at making trades with other teams.........ummm..
I know he is a very good locker room authority.......uhhh...
he is one of the better game manage..........oh.....hmmmm
offensive play designe.........
umm..


You got me. :hankpalm:
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
The plan seems to be give Watson greatest opportunities to get us to Super Bowl.
That’s a hopeful comment based on what? I haven’t seen Watson and DJ together yet.

I don’t know what the plan is. I thought I knew what the plan was when they brought Duke in but O’Brien had a completely different plan. Run him up the middle on second down and long.

If you know what O’Brien has planned you’ve developed a super power no one else has - the ability to read BoB’s mind. HC O’Brien has defied conventional wisdom at every turn. Take that fake punt in Kansas City for example.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Just out of curiosity alone. I wonder what would have happened if Hyde accepted the contract offer. Would O'Brien still trade for Johnson, would he find another trade partner or would Hopkins still be on the roster. It doesn't matter now, but it would have been interesting to see what roster moves would have happened after signing Hyde.
I have wondered this all along. My thought is that he would have traded for someone else, not a running back. Probably went defense or a worse WR than Hopkins plus some draft stock.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
Just out of curiosity alone. I wonder what would have happened if Hyde accepted the contract offer. Would O'Brien still trade for Johnson, would he find another trade partner or would Hopkins still be on the roster. It doesn't matter now, but it would have been interesting to see what roster moves would have happened after signing Hyde.
Hopkins was gone come hell or high water. I can’t believe I’m about to write this but he could have made a worse trade involving Hopkins.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Hopkins was gone come hell or high water. I can’t believe I’m about to write this but he could have made a worse trade involving Hopkins.
He could have done a lot better too.... traded for defense and drafted a guy like Laviska Shenault or Chase Claypool with our 1st pick. Hyde would have ended up back here for cheap.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Would have been lovely if he dangled Hopkins on the market just before the draft just to let everyone try to outbid one another.
Yep. That's the sort of strategy and tactics often used by seasoned and veteran general managers.

And King Billy is neither of those. Not even remotely close.

He GMs like a coach. Only thinking of what is in front of his face - next season - without any regard to the future as it pertains to salary cap management and long term strategic planning.

Because, ultimately, he knows that he can wreck a future that he might not be a part of if/when he fails. Someone else will have to clean up his messes and that's not his problem.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Why would they want to trade their young guys and what would the Texans do for WR?
Lions need WR help despite have a great draft. They did well with corner Okudah and he fits well replacing Darius Slay and starting opposite Trufant signed as FA. RB Swift was a surprise to many Lions fans & was error. Detroit did well in 5th when they selected RB Jason Huntley; didn't need to waste prime pick for RB.

Jonah Jackson needs to sit behind a good veteran (Fulton) or start on team with a really good line (Texans 2020 & I know many disagree). With my trade, Lions get serviceable Fulton to replace Aboushe who somehow clings like a kitten hanging from tree limb. They also drafted OG Logan Stenberg round 5 who can sit instead of Jackson. Detroit needs a turn around with vets over young rookies who should not start this year for them.

Fuller, Cobb and Cooks rotate with Isaiah Coulter and whomever is left after a trade. We still need other players and Stills is one of the few players with any trade value.

My POV: Detroit A+ on Okudah but flubbed on Swift needing either another CB or interior DL . None of A'Shawn Robinson, Mike Daniels, or Damon Harrison is on the team anymore. Replacements suck. Detroit can solve run up middle with MLB McKinney. Current Jarrad Davis 6'1 238 had PFF of 40. FA pick Danny Shelton will help at DT but Detroit needs McKinney. They already have Okwara's brother Romeo that Julian duplicates; makes for PR but doesn't help the roster now.

They need Stills even more.

The strength of my trade for Detroit is they get 3 vets that help NOW.

Houston gets Crosby who can play RT if needed or swing. I think he'd do okay at RG until Jonah Jackson ready. Okwura can take his time and be starter in 2021.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Just out of curiosity alone. I wonder what would have happened if Hyde accepted the contract offer. Would O'Brien still trade for Johnson, would he find another trade partner or would Hopkins still be on the roster. It doesn't matter now, but it would have been interesting to see what roster moves would have happened after signing Hyde.
I think Hopkins was gone regardless; Hyde would have rotated with David with Duke getting even less snaps.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
That’s a hopeful comment based on what? I haven’t seen Watson and DJ together yet.

I don’t know what the plan is. I thought I knew what the plan was when they brought Duke in but O’Brien had a completely different plan. Run him up the middle on second down and long.

If you know what O’Brien has planned you’ve developed a super power no one else has - the ability to read BoB’s mind. HC O’Brien has defied conventional wisdom at every turn. Take that fake punt in Kansas City for example.
I think the plan was as I said--what happens after kickoff is anyone's guess.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Lions need WR help despite have a great draft. They did well with corner Okudah and he fits well replacing Darius Slay and starting opposite Trufant signed as FA. RB Swift was a surprise to many Lions fans & was error. Detroit did well in 5th when they selected RB Jason Huntley; didn't need to waste prime pick for RB.

Jonah Jackson needs to sit behind a good veteran (Fulton) or start on team with a really good line (Texans 2020 & I know many disagree). With my trade, Lions get serviceable Fulton to replace Aboushe who somehow clings like a kitten hanging from tree limb. They also drafted OG Logan Stenberg round 5 who can sit instead of Jackson. Detroit needs a turn around with vets over young rookies who should not start this year for them.

Fuller, Cobb and Cooks rotate with Isaiah Coulter and whomever is left after a trade. We still need other players and Stills is one of the few players with any trade value.

My POV: Detroit A+ on Okudah but flubbed on Swift needing either another CB or interior DL . None of A'Shawn Robinson, Mike Daniels, or Damon Harrison is on the team anymore. Replacements suck. Detroit can solve run up middle with MLB McKinney. Current Jarrad Davis 6'1 238 had PFF of 40. FA pick Danny Shelton will help at DT but Detroit needs McKinney. They already have Okwara's brother Romeo that Julian duplicates; makes for PR but doesn't help the roster now.

They need Stills even more.

The strength of my trade for Detroit is they get 3 vets that help NOW.

Houston gets Crosby who can play RT if needed or swing. I think he'd do okay at RG until Jonah Jackson ready. Okwura can take his time and be starter in 2021.
Pretty solid assessment of the Lions situation.
 

RGV82

Random guy
He's finished hacking it up beyond recognition, hopefully
With the moves he made this offseason, it will definitely either expose him as an unexpected genius, or an even worse GM than anyone expected. Either way, this team is “his” and his true colors will show this year.
 


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