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Injury Discussion Thread

Lucky said:
I don't even remember how Fisher received a concussion.

This offseason, the Texans have to take offensive line depth more seriously. Caserio lucked out in 2023 with guys like Fant and Jones becoming available. I remember getting into it with @TheRealJoker V2 over the lack of depth at OT. Now, the Texans are a play away from having an interior lineman (with very little experience at that) protecting the edge for CJ Stroud. How is this acceptable? The only OT on the practice squad is the international player that doesn't count against the practice squad limit.

No one can predict how Fisher's concussion will play out. Has he been concussed in the past? Even though Tunsil and Howard are not my favorite players, their health is essential to the Texans hope moving forward. This could become a major screwup.
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Fisher had a limited practice the first practice day after the week 10 (before the Cowboys game). It was during this practice that he developed concussion symptoms. From what I can find, no one actually knows exactly when the head trauma that caused the symptoms occurred. It was apparently a delayed symptom situation where Fisher sustained the trauma in the week 10 game. A concussion can be sustained by a lineman without a direct trauma to the head...............with only a deceleration injury caused by being hit brutally to the body resulting in a "ringer" movement of the brain banging back and forth against the walls in the confines of the skull.
 
Out of all the players on IR only 2 are not out for the season. That does not mean they will return only that the team has not given up on the possibility.

FB: Christian Harris designated to return — Eligible to Return Week 5
RB: British Brooks — Eligible to Return Week 10
 
Porky said:
For the record, my roster goes nine deep at o-line. I carry 4 tackles, 3 of which should be true tackles. The 4th guy should be tackle first but can play guard if needed. The other five are interior guys, but at least one should be a true center. Patterson doesn’t qualify. And I feel that Juice is a true center…but not a good one at this time. He is out of place at LG but it is what it is.
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You don't think Patterson isn’t a true center?
 
Pre-season, almost all thought we had a defensive run problem despite few points scored against us. I've pointed this out before.
Autry and Al-Shaair, Settle, Fatukasi and Mario Edwards signed.
Tunsil and Howard with injuries and we drafted Fisher. I like him but is our franchise, record setting Stroud of less importance than the few points allowed defending the run?
That is a rhetorical question as obviously we know the answer.

Edit: this and others should probably go in oline tread.
 
badboy said:
All expected playing on the line l guess. 2020 Lisfranc so not concerned about that; nor the tibia in 2023.
The concussion could be.. but doesn't put me off.
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Yea not really lots of injury history damage there. The concussion thing stands different as brain function not as in bodily injury. But generally many players seem to reasonably recover from concussions after protocol.
 
amazing80 said:
Is Harris ever coming back?
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I saw this in a Drew Dougherty article on houstontexans.com.

Scott George: Dear Drew, Will we ever see Christian Harris on the field again this season?
DD: According to Ryans, yes. Yours is a great, and frequently-asked question, Scott. The third-year linebacker has been out all regular season with a leg injury, but on Monday the head coach was asked about Harris, and he had an update.

"Christian has done a great job progressing and we look forward to seeing him out there pretty soon," Ryans said.
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Harris will need some windup time to get into play shape, and will be be trying to avoid re-injuring his calf.

Green will not be anything he has not been since his debut performance..............especially while wearing a shoulder harness. The Texans are beyond desperate.
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I must be missing something. Why is Kenyon Green coming back off IR...are there other injury issues at OG that is making the team so desperate?
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
I must be missing something. Why is Kenyon Green coming back off IR...are there other injury issues at OG that is making the team so desperate?
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Or are they going to check out if Scruggs’ calling was the issue and roll with Patterson OC/Green LG?

I don’t get why they are so tied in to Green, seems it would be easy for Caserio to write him off as the previous Coaching staff’s pick and therefore not his failure and move on quickly.

Who knows? There was certainly talent there, but both seasons he has started he seems to have begun well, looked great in camp, good in pre-season, then got worse and worse the more he’s played, similar pattern his rookie season. Maybe it is just injury affected.
 
I think Scruggs is still a salvageable asset on the OL. First season (2023) slowed due to injury and arrived (WK12) after Patterson was out (WK8), only to be placed at LG. This season he was planted at C at the start of the season and really struggled. Patterson re-inserted at C and Scruggs was moved back to LG….this should’ve been the way they entered the 2024 season, I believe the results would’ve been much better. Now that the musical chairs at LG and C seem to be over, Scruggs should be a different player by the start of the 2025 NFL season. Texans need to stop this incessant tinkering with their players….find their positions and leave them there. Since Patterson wasn’t ready to go at the beginning, it might’ve been better to keep Scruggs at LG, come to the conclusion that Kenyon Green had become a bust, and moved Green2 to C until Patterson was ready to return.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I think Scruggs is still a salvageable asset on the OL. First season (2023) slowed due to injury and arrived (WK12) after Patterson was out (WK8), only to be placed at LG. This season he was planted at C at the start of the season and really struggled. Patterson re-inserted at C and Scruggs was moved back to LG….this should’ve been the way they entered the 2024 season, I believe the results would’ve been much better. Now that the musical chairs at LG and C seem to be over, Scruggs should be a different player by the start of the 2025 NFL season. Texans need to stop this incessant tinkering with their players….find their positions and leave them there. Since Patterson wasn’t ready to go at the beginning, it might’ve been better to keep Scruggs at LG, come to the conclusion that Kenyon Green had become a bust, and moved Green2 to C until Patterson was ready to return.
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Except Scruggs was drafted to be the C and Patterson did not have any expectation to be the starter there... and to not give Scruggs that chance would have raised holy hell especially from fans like you. You were if favor of Scruggs at C yourself. Stop using hindsight trying to make yourself look good. If they would have tried to start Scruggs at LG and anyone else at C you would have burned this MB down with your rants along with most others
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I think Scruggs is still a salvageable asset on the OL. First season (2023) slowed due to injury and arrived (WK12) after Patterson was out (WK8), only to be placed at LG. This season he was planted at C at the start of the season and really struggled. Patterson re-inserted at C and Scruggs was moved back to LG….this should’ve been the way they entered the 2024 season, I believe the results would’ve been much better. Now that the musical chairs at LG and C seem to be over, Scruggs should be a different player by the start of the 2025 NFL season. Texans need to stop this incessant tinkering with their players….find their positions and leave them there. Since Patterson wasn’t ready to go at the beginning, it might’ve been better to keep Scruggs at LG, come to the conclusion that Kenyon Green had become a bust, and moved Green2 to C until Patterson was ready to return.
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Hopefully you're right about Scruggs.

I wouldn't bet on him though. If I got a chance to upgrade in the draft I would do it and consider Scruggs IOL depth.
 
JB said:
Except Scruggs was drafted to be the C and Patterson did not have any expectation to be the starter there... and to not give Scruggs that chance would have raised holy hell especially from fans like you. You were if favor of Scruggs at C yourself. Stop using hindsight trying to make yourself look good. If they would have tried to start Scruggs at LG and anyone else at C you would have burned this MB down with your rants along with most others
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I like/liked Patterson at C a lot, health is his issue and I dont trust him to stay healthy.
 
Last Draft was weak for C. The Texans were desperate for a C but the Scruggs pick was not made until almost the 3rd round. Being ranked the 9th best C in the Draft should have dropped expectations way down although the Texans PR made him sound like a 1st rounder. All the way back to college, he was known to be slow of foot in every way with questionable holding power. Add injury and there should be no surprises here.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Last Draft was weak for C. The Texans were desperate for a C but the Scruggs pick was not made until almost the 3rd round. Being ranked the 9th best C in the Draft should have dropped expectations way down although the Texans PR made him sound like a 1st rounder. All the way back to college, he was known to be slow of foot in every way with questionable holding power. Add injury and there should be no surprises here.
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Why would anyone's expectations be tempered tho? He helped solidify the o-line with his versatility last year and this year & he has been able to play the guard position better than the 1st round guy we selected. i just wonder how much better at the position you guys think we're going to/ can get. Scruggs' draft grade was 6.21..Green's was 6.45. Not that big of difference between a 2nd round guy projected to be a starter in a year or 2 versus a guy who was thought to be plug and play on day 1. Here are the weaknesses listed for each coming out of college.

Green:

Weaknesses​

  • Has a history of opting-in on holding penalties.
  • Enters lateral block fit before finding positioning.
  • Struggled with block sustain in loss to Mississippi State.
  • Requires better feel for best angles as inside-zone blocker.
  • Below-average instincts in pass protection.
  • Slow to activate lateral slide when mirroring.
  • New Mexico twist game gave him trouble.

Scruggs:

Weaknesses​

  • Below average snap-to-step quickness.
  • Very average lateral quickness to seal the nose tackle.
  • More wall-off than drive blocker.
  • Foot slide to secure blocks is lacking.
  • Unable to flip hips for recovery blocks.
  • Could struggle to redirect and pick up twisters.
  • Needs to find quicker hand resets in pass protection.

So while you're right in that all of Scruggs' issues surrounded his foot speed, his weaknesses haven't COME CLOSE to being as detrimental to this teams' success as Green's has/did.....which, as you can see right there in bold have shown up big time on the next level & virtually make him unplayable. Scruggs ain't the best, but he ain't a stiff either.
 
Scruggs was over-drafted. I'm not an expert or anything...BUT taking everything into account, I had him somewhere from late 3rd into the 4th round.

He's probably more of a long-term depth piece on a good offensive line. So, I'll agree on this one with SB. I'd like to see an IOL drafted in the 2nd-4th round this year along with signing a vet to upgrade one spot as well. I'd look to dump Mason. Green can stick around as another depth piece for now, but he should only start if it's a five-alarm fire.
 
Mr teX said:
Why would anyone's expectations be tempered tho? He helped solidify the o-line with his versatility last year and this year & he has been able to play the guard position better than the 1st round guy we selected. i just wonder how much better at the position you guys think we're going to/ can get. Scruggs' draft grade was 6.21..Green's was 6.45. Not that big of difference between a 2nd round guy projected to be a starter in a year or 2 versus a guy who was thought to be plug and play on day 1. Here are the weaknesses listed for each coming out of college.

Green:

Weaknesses​

  • Has a history of opting-in on holding penalties.
  • Enters lateral block fit before finding positioning.
  • Struggled with block sustain in loss to Mississippi State.
  • Requires better feel for best angles as inside-zone blocker.
  • Below-average instincts in pass protection.
  • Slow to activate lateral slide when mirroring.
  • New Mexico twist game gave him trouble.

Scruggs:

Weaknesses​

  • Below average snap-to-step quickness.
  • Very average lateral quickness to seal the nose tackle.
  • More wall-off than drive blocker.
  • Foot slide to secure blocks is lacking.
  • Unable to flip hips for recovery blocks.
  • Could struggle to redirect and pick up twisters.
  • Needs to find quicker hand resets in pass protection.

So while you're right in that all of Scruggs' issues surrounded his foot speed, his weaknesses haven't COME CLOSE to being as detrimental to this teams' success as Green's has/did.....which, as you can see right there in bold have shown up big time on the next level & virtually make him unplayable. Scruggs ain't the best, but he ain't a stiff either.
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Scruggs has been routinely overpowered at center with little ability to adjust if has to cover even a little to his right or left.

Green has dealt with too many major injuries to try to compare him to college performance.

Scruggs may be able to end up as some depth. Green has no future except on a poor Oline.
 
Porky said:
Scruggs was over-drafted. I'm not an expert or anything...BUT taking everything into account, I had him somewhere from late 3rd into the 4th round.

He's probably more of a long-term depth piece on a good offensive line. So, I'll agree on this one with SB. I'd like to see an IOL drafted in the 2nd-4th round this year along with signing a vet to upgrade one spot as well. I'd look to dump Mason. Green can stick around as another depth piece for now, but he should only start if it's a five-alarm fire.
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I'm only in favor of drafting an o-linemen high if Strausser is gone; i just don't want to put draft capital in that guys hands to develop. Bad enough he got his hands on Fisher. Besides that, i'd like to see early draft capital be reserved for a true #2 for CJ and perhaps another inside LB b/c Harris has shown to be unreliable. But Green can go too imo. 2 of his 3 years he’s missed significant time. The 1 year he did start, he didn’t show much. I just don’t think he can play & i don't want CJ & the offense in general to be in a position where we're depending on this guy to not only stay healthy, but also significantly improve..that's not realistic imo.

I’d be more in favor of them bringing in some veteran guys to shore up the interior o-line. Perhaps bring back Dieter to take Scruggs/Mason’s spot, start Fisher at RT..kick the tires on Zack Martin at the other guard position..maybe Bredson from TB. Give Patterson 1st crack at center but bring in a guy like Bradley Bozeman to compete..... Scruggs can lay back in the cut as the swing interior guy.
 
Hmmm...Green is set to return and now Scruggs is set to be out for a few games with a foot injury. Green back at LG? I guess we'll see if he performs any better next to Patterson.
 
JB said:
Except Scruggs was drafted to be the C and Patterson did not have any expectation to be the starter there... and to not give Scruggs that chance would have raised holy hell especially from fans like you. You were if favor of Scruggs at C yourself. Stop using hindsight trying to make yourself look good. If they would have tried to start Scruggs at LG and anyone else at C you would have burned this MB down with your rants along with most others
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Feel better? I’m a MB member and can change my opinion fairly fast as an observer sitting on the outside looking in. I probably did like Scruggs initially, but like others changed my mind based on how Patterson performed. See, everything is on paper or blogs and it’s full of opinions until the pads come on and we “all” see how they perform on the field of play.

In my eyes, Patterson exceeded expectations when he got the chance to start. At that point, I viewed Scruggs as the more athletic OL, and thought he’d do better at LG. Patterson went down before he and Scruggs had any time together. At this time, Patterson has become the better player, but I think Scruggs could still elevate his game provided he played the same position.

With that being said, I believe Scruggs will get better provided he remains at LG.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Scruggs has been routinely overpowered at center with little ability to adjust if has to cover even a little to his right or left.

Green has dealt with too many major injuries to try to compare him to college performance.

Scruggs may be able to end up as some depth. Green has no future except on a poor Oline.
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What (and who) is really behind Houston Texans push for Kenyon Green's return​

Joshua Jordan
Dec 10, 2024, 3:20 pm


Coming off the bye week the Houston Texans received good news as both LB Christian Harris and LG Kenyon Green have been designated to return from injury.

The timing couldn't be better with Harris considering the loss of LB Azeez Al-Shaair, who was suspended for three games for his hit on Jaguars QB Trevor Lawrence.

Texans head coach DeMeco Ryans hasn't announced a return to game action for Harris or Green, the plan is to see how they progress over the course of the week before making any decisions.

When joining the Texans YouTube channel this week, Ryans described Green as a “player that can move people in the run game,” but also acknowledged his issues in pass protection that need to be cleaned up.

While Green was only on the field for three of the whopping 8 sacks on CJ Stroud the last time he started a game, it must be pointed out that he was atrocious that Thursday night against the Jets.

And that was following up a game against the Colts that got him benched for his struggles. If not for Jarrett Patterson suffering a concussion against Indy, Green shouldn't have been on the field versus New York.

That's why Ryans' comments about Green returning are so concerning. “If he's ready to get back out there, I think he can help us,” said the Texans head coach.

To be fair, it's not like the Texans have had much success with Juice Scruggs at guard and Patterson at center. But at least they haven't been a complete disaster in pass protection like they were with Green in the lineup. Green was getting beat quick or missing assignments that led to immediate pressures and big hits on Stroud.


Ground and pound?

There's a narrative out there that Green is the better option when it comes to run blocking. But no matter how you frame it, he was one of the worst, if not the worst, guard in the NFL according to ProFootballFocus before suffering the injury.

Somehow that's supposed to change after returning from a dislocated shoulder? I don't buy it. And considering the Texans' upcoming schedule, they're probably going to struggle with running the ball against the Ravens, Chiefs, and Titans, whether he plays or not.

Those teams are strong against the run, and the Texans would be wise to try to beat them with the passing game, considering the matchup.

Another narrative out there is that GM Nick Caserio wants to give Green every possible opportunity to succeed because he spent a 1st-round pick on Green, and passed up several Pro Bowl players in doing so.

For me, that argument falls a bit flat. Caserio used a 2nd-round pick on Scruggs, so he has a lot invested in both players.

However, Scruggs isn't without criticism. He's been an obvious weakness at guard, though he did play much better against the Jaguars last week. It's the Jags, read into that what you will. But Caserio did admit recently that Scruggs is a better center than guard.

Perhaps the plan is to put Scruggs back at center with Green returning. But that could spell trouble as well. The communication issues on the o-line seem to have improved with Patterson at center.

At the end of the day, the number one job for the o-line has to be protecting Stroud, who has been the second-most sacked QB this season (41).

He's taken a sack in every game this year, and has been sacked four or more times in six of thirteen games. Four of those six games featured Green as the starting guard.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:

What (and who) is really behind Houston Texans push for Kenyon Green's return​

Joshua Jordan
Dec 10, 2024, 3:20 pm


Coming off the bye week the Houston Texans received good news as both LB Christian Harris and LG Kenyon Green have been designated to return from injury.

The timing couldn't be better with Harris considering the loss of LB Azeez Al-Shaair, who was suspended for three games for his hit on Jaguars QB Trevor Lawrence.

Texans head coach DeMeco Ryans hasn't announced a return to game action for Harris or Green, the plan is to see how they progress over the course of the week before making any decisions.

When joining the Texans YouTube channel this week, Ryans described Green as a “player that can move people in the run game,” but also acknowledged his issues in pass protection that need to be cleaned up.

While Green was only on the field for three of the whopping 8 sacks on CJ Stroud the last time he started a game, it must be pointed out that he was atrocious that Thursday night against the Jets.

And that was following up a game against the Colts that got him benched for his struggles. If not for Jarrett Patterson suffering a concussion against Indy, Green shouldn't have been on the field versus New York.

That's why Ryans' comments about Green returning are so concerning. “If he's ready to get back out there, I think he can help us,” said the Texans head coach.

To be fair, it's not like the Texans have had much success with Juice Scruggs at guard and Patterson at center. But at least they haven't been a complete disaster in pass protection like they were with Green in the lineup. Green was getting beat quick or missing assignments that led to immediate pressures and big hits on Stroud.


Ground and pound?

There's a narrative out there that Green is the better option when it comes to run blocking. But no matter how you frame it, he was one of the worst, if not the worst, guard in the NFL according to ProFootballFocus before suffering the injury.

Somehow that's supposed to change after returning from a dislocated shoulder? I don't buy it. And considering the Texans' upcoming schedule, they're probably going to struggle with running the ball against the Ravens, Chiefs, and Titans, whether he plays or not.

Those teams are strong against the run, and the Texans would be wise to try to beat them with the passing game, considering the matchup.

Another narrative out there is that GM Nick Caserio wants to give Green every possible opportunity to succeed because he spent a 1st-round pick on Green, and passed up several Pro Bowl players in doing so.

For me, that argument falls a bit flat. Caserio used a 2nd-round pick on Scruggs, so he has a lot invested in both players.

However, Scruggs isn't without criticism. He's been an obvious weakness at guard, though he did play much better against the Jaguars last week. It's the Jags, read into that what you will. But Caserio did admit recently that Scruggs is a better center than guard.

Perhaps the plan is to put Scruggs back at center with Green returning. But that could spell trouble as well. The communication issues on the o-line seem to have improved with Patterson at center.

At the end of the day, the number one job for the o-line has to be protecting Stroud, who has been the second-most sacked QB this season (41).

He's taken a sack in every game this year, and has been sacked four or more times in six of thirteen games. Four of those six games featured Green as the starting guard.
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I don’t know that this piece says anything that we didn’t already know. Anyone with eyes could see that Green was terrible when he played and was the weak link on the o-line when he was in there. You could also understand the FO wanting to give Green every opportunity to live up to his draft slot; hell I said as much in a post of mine on here somewhere.

The question is and will always be how much of CJ’s health and future development are the HC/FO willing to risk by continuing to push Green into the lineup ….b/c that’s really what’s at risk here.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Last Draft was weak for C. The Texans were desperate for a C but the Scruggs pick was not made until almost the 3rd round. Being ranked the 9th best C in the Draft should have dropped expectations way down although the Texans PR made him sound like a 1st rounder. All the way back to college, he was known to be slow of foot in every way with questionable holding power. Add injury and there should be no surprises here.
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This^. Trading up to 62 with the Eagles made it even more shocking for me. I at the time, said bad move but they have to know more about scrubs than I do.

I will let voice-text of Scruggs stand.
 
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