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Indianapolis Colts @ Houston Texans. 10/9. 7:25. CBS/NFLN.**Official Gameday Thread**

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
I thought Fitz played better as the game went along.

I think an upgrade at QB would help a lot, but I thought as a team we faltered in many areas. Tackling, Coverage, O-line, guys making costly mistakes...

There are a lot of areas I'd like to see improve.
 

brg88tx

Waterboy
I think one of the problems was the whole attitude about the short week. the coach and many players whined about it all week long. the colts also had a short week, but I bet they didn't whine about it nonstop like we did.

attitude is everything
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
Sorry, but flippant non-responsive answer. The point was that QB and system could survive not having a running game EVEN THOUGH the passing game was supposedly predicated on having a running game. Take the running game away from this current QB/scheme and you have 0-6 with crap stats on top.
That's logical on a team that has a decent QB. We don't have that. We all know that. Foster is our offense. Taking him away is taking the center piece away. So like I said, take any offenses center piece away and they'll look horrible too. How is Minnesota looking with out Peterson?
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
That's logical on a team that has a decent QB. We don't have that. We all know that. Foster is our offense. Taking him away is taking the center piece away. So like I said, take any offenses center piece away and they'll look horrible too. How is Minnesota looking with out Peterson?
Just fine actually because they have a legit qb in Teddy Two Gloves.

They are 1-1 since AP and the lost came with Teddy Two Gloves sidelined with an ankle injury, but had they played on Sunday rather than Thursday, he would have played.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
Just fine actually because they have a legit qb in Teddy Two Gloves.

They are 1-1 since AP and the lost came with Teddy Two Gloves sidelined with an ankle injury, but had they played on Sunday rather than Thursday, he would have played.
Peterson only played the first game of the season, a win. They've been 1-3 since he hasn't been on the field. Having scored 7, 9, 41, and 10 points since, averaging 8.6 points in their losses. We're averaging 20.6 in our losses and you want Fitz run out of town. But yeah they're "just fine".
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Did anyone check out the game stats? Specifically the INTs, Fumbles, & penalties?

We got one INT, the Colts didn't get any.

We recovered one fumble, they recovered two.

We had 5 penalties, they had 5 penalties...

Kinda interesting.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
Did anyone check out the game stats? Specifically the INTs, Fumbles, & penalties?

We got one INT, the Colts didn't get any.

We recovered one fumble, they recovered two.

We had 5 penalties, they had 5 penalties...

Kinda interesting.
What does the on-side kick count as? Probably not a turnover but it sure feels like one.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
I thought Fitz played better as the game went along.

I think an upgrade at QB would help a lot, but I thought as a team we faltered in many areas. Tackling, Coverage, O-line, guys making costly mistakes...

There are a lot of areas I'd like to see improve.
Fitz always plays better as the game goes along. It's particularly true when the Texans fall behind. I didn't consider it a particularly redeeming quality when David Carr did it back in the day and I'm not digging it out of Fitz either. I can't call the best part of his performance "garbage time" because it wasn't but I think there's a very solid block of evidence that supports the idea that jumping out to a huge lead very early often will result in a change of momentum as the leading team starts to believe the game is won and the trailing team gets less tight feeling the pressure to keep pace is off.

In a sense it's conditional football. We play better when the other team has already established that we suck.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I thought Fitz played better as the game went along.

I think an upgrade at QB would help a lot, but I thought as a team we faltered in many areas. Tackling, Coverage, O-line, guys making costly mistakes...

There are a lot of areas I'd like to see improve.
The bolded is being glossed over in everyone's haste to run Fitz out of town. There were a number of 3rd down conversions where sure tackling would've stopped a colts drive. I know KJ had a number of missed tackles that led to key 3rd down conversions for the colts.
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
Did anyone check out the game stats? Specifically the INTs, Fumbles, & penalties?

We got one INT, the Colts didn't get any.

We recovered one fumble, they recovered two.

We had 5 penalties, they had 5 penalties...

Kinda interesting.
And?

How about the Colts being 8/16 on 3rd down vs our 1/8?
Their 27 first downs vs our 18?
456 yards vs our 332?
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
The bolded is being glossed over in everyone's haste to run Fitz out of town. There were a number of 3rd down conversions where sure tackling would've stopped a colts drive. I know KJ had a number of missed tackles that led to key 3rd down conversions for the colts.
the tackling problem (very real) is not being glossed over. It's just not as much fun to talk about because we're all pretty much in agreement about it. It's a huge issue that they need to address and there's no excuse for it.

When I look at what's happening there I think "This defense has issues, we need to protect it by holding on to the football and trying to keep them off the field. Shouldn't be too hard to do since we're a run the football, ball-control kind of offense that.... oh wait, Fitz, Never mind".
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Fitz always plays better as the game goes along. It's particularly true when the Texans fall behind. I didn't consider it a particularly redeeming quality when David Carr did it back in the day and I'm not digging it out of Fitz either. I can't call the best part of his performance "garbage time" because it wasn't but I think there's a very solid block of evidence that supports the idea that jumping out to a huge lead very early often will result in a change of momentum as the leading team starts to believe the game is won and the trailing team gets less tight feeling the pressure to keep pace is off.

In a sense it's conditional football. We play better when the other team has already established that we suck.

I agree with that. That's why I didn't put much stock into the failed Kubiak comebacks of the past. In sports you'll often see teams come back to make the game close again. It's human nature.

That said, I am not sure if that is what happened yesterday. It was still early in the game when Fitz started to play better and the closer the game got the better I thought he played.

I'd like to see OB come out with a more aggressive approach and see how Fitz does. Or just roll with Mallett. I'm not going to be picky about either scenario.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
Fitz was hit at or below the knees 3 times yesterday and no one penalty.
I have to say that was quite annoying seeing as how Watt got fined and flagged for going low after getting blocked (illegally) into Manuel a few weeks ago. I'm not saying these were flag worthy, but be consistent refs.
 

playa465

Veteran
I thought Fitz played better as the game went along.

I think an upgrade at QB would help a lot, but I thought as a team we faltered in many areas. Tackling, Coverage, O-line, guys making costly mistakes...

There are a lot of areas I'd like to see improve
.
IMO, this seems to be a coaching dilemma. I recall during training camp and OTAs how everyone (players, commentators, fans) was praising the individual coaching that was taking place. What happened? Or is it the old Kubiak phrase, "we have to execute better"?
 

mattieuk

All Pro
What does the on-side kick count as? Probably not a turnover but it sure feels like one.
It counts as damn inexcusable.

In the new NFL-Lite, pretty much every freaking kickoff is going out of the endzone for a touchback - and you don't cover the ONE PLAY which can hurt you on a kickoff.

That was pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Tania Ganguli @taniaganguli
Hopkins says he's going to go home and watch Clemson play this weekend "be a fan so I can point some fingers" he adds with a grin. #Texans
...
Dave Zangaro ✔ @DZangaro
DeAndre Hopkins said he thought Fitzpatrick's fumble was an incomplete pass. That's why he hesitated.
John McClain ✔ @McClain_on_NFL
DeAndre Hopkins said he takes blame for the loss for not recovering Fotz fumble at end. Said he thought it incompletion.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Don't give me that sh!t, thier o-line mugged the defense all game. I challenge you to watch the game again and watch just the Colts drives and focus on the o-line. We got no pressure because the had hands full of jersey of straight up tackled all night.
Boo-hoo. I challenge you to watch the game objectively, not through homer-colored glasses. I defend things about this team left and right, but running to crucify the refs on every close call is low hanging fruit fandom.

They did not dictate the game, BUT they did have a few calls that hurt us and did help the colts. It seems those kinds of calls never go our way, the Bouye PI, AJ PI, AJ fumble, hell i say Fitz get hit at our below the knees 3 times this game and not one penalty. JJ got 2 a few games ago, so have the rules changed.

Not blaming the refs for this one, but it was a horribly ref'd game !
The AJ PI, AJ pushed off. Not much, but he extended his arms and created separation, plain and simple. If the ref had swallowed his whistle on it I'd have been just fine, fan-wise, but would have wiped my brow at the same time. The AJ fumble was a fumble. It was letter of the law close, but if that situation had been flipped this whole board would have been screaming that clearly the receiver had the ball, clearly. The Bouye PI I would like to see again. And I saw at least one where I thought Fitz was dealing with around the knee play, just like the kind JJ was screwed over last week.

Bottom line, calls go both ways over the course of a game like this one and my point stands that they didn't dictate the outcome. Not nearly as much as the play itself.

I don't ask this as an attempt to belittle, I promise. But how long have you been a fan? You've made a few comments tonight only someone new to the team would say. Like the above comment. Have you seen the other Colts-Texans games?

Again, all due respect. No harm intended. :)
I've watched Houston pro football since the early 90's Oilers. Is that long enough to have developed a fan-sided view of the refs for you? Or perhaps it's long enough to have understood that they're not out to get us. And I am curious what other comments you're referring too.

The refs are quite obviously imperfect, but this ain't exactly news. And if it helps anyone to sleep at night to see that imperfection as the league constructing it's own standings, knock yourselves out. We had the ball late with a shot to win that the refs had no bearing on. We dug a ridiculous hole early that the refs had no bearing on. We could have actually won this ballgame with an extra big play here or there and that win would have been dictated by our play, period. Unless of course there's anyone out there that actually likes to thank the refs in victory all the same.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
yeah and he will not get into that game either. Where was he against Dallas with only one 12 yard catch? I have to admit reading this thread that the criticisms have been fair and imo on target. Fitz was bad especially early but as blocking improved so seemingly did he. Like Schaub, I think Fitz has a confidence issue and after seeing him center of the rah rah group prior to Bills, he was at back of the pack against Cowboys when TV showed him prior to game. I remember thinking "uh oh.. lack of confidence or disinterest?"

If Fitz goes and I will not complain, so should Duane Brown, Crennel, Myers, O'Brien, 'tackle 'em high and pray he falls down' Swearinger and 'falling down two games in a row costing a TD Kendrick Lewis.
I might include Bullock who only messed up one lay but it was a big one that could have swung flow of game. He has to make that field goal.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
yeah and he will not get into that game either. Where was he against Dallas with only one 12 yard catch? I have to admit reading this thread that the criticisms have been fair and imo on target. Fitz was bad especially early but as blocking improved so seemingly did he. Like Schaub, I think Fitz has a confidence issue and after seeing him center of the rah rah group prior to Bills, he was at back of the pack against Cowboys when TV showed him prior to game. I remember thinking "uh oh.. lack of confidence or disinterest?"

If Fitz goes and I will not complain, so should Duane Brown, Crennel, Myers, O'Brien, 'tackle 'em high and pray he falls down' Swearinger and 'falling down two games in a row costing a TD Kendrick Lewis.
I might include Bullock who only messed up one lay but it was a big one that could have swung flow of game. He has to make that field goal.
dude..i can't make out a single coherent statement in the last part of your post..
 

Big Lou

Warr Pig
Boo-hoo. I challenge you to watch the game objectively, not through homer-colored glasses. I defend things about this team left and right, but running to crucify the refs on every close call is low hanging fruit fandom.



The AJ PI, AJ pushed off. Not much, but he extended his arms and created separation, plain and simple. If the ref had swallowed his whistle on it I'd have been just fine, fan-wise, but would have wiped my brow at the same time. The AJ fumble was a fumble. It was letter of the law close, but if that situation had been flipped this whole board would have been screaming that clearly the receiver had the ball, clearly. The Bouye PI I would like to see again. And I saw at least one where I thought Fitz was dealing with around the knee play, just like the kind JJ was screwed over last week.

Bottom line, calls go both ways over the course of a game like this one and my point stands that they didn't dictate the outcome. Not nearly as much as the play itself.



I've watched Houston pro football since the early 90's Oilers. Is that long enough to have developed a fan-sided view of the refs for you? Or perhaps it's long enough to have understood that they're not out to get us. And I am curious what other comments you're referring too.

The refs are quite obviously imperfect, but this ain't exactly news. And if it helps anyone to sleep at night to see that imperfection as the league constructing it's own standings, knock yourselves out. We had the ball late with a shot to win that the refs had no bearing on. We dug a ridiculous hole early that the refs had no bearing on. We could have actually won this ballgame with an extra big play here or there and that win would have been dictated by our play, period. Unless of course there's anyone out there that actually likes to thank the refs in victory all the same.
The PI calls piss me off but my biggest problem with this game was the over the top easy to call holding and tackling by the Colts on damn near every play. These weren't the holds that can go other way. These were tackles, blocks in the back and full arm extension jersey in hand holds. This was WWF ****. You must have watched a different gam.
 

mattieuk

All Pro
DeAndre Hopkins said he thought Fitzpatrick's fumble was an incomplete pass. That's why he hesitated.

DeAndre Hopkins said he takes blame for the loss for not recovering Fotz fumble at end. Said he thought it incompletion.
No excuse far as I'm concerned. Play to the whistle, and if you see a ball on the floor, pick that sucker up and run as quickly to their endzone as effectively as you can. You see players "get it" all the time. The play is dead when you get to the cheerleaders and the referees re-spot the ball.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
dude..i can't make out a single coherent statement in the last part of your post..
If Fitz goes and I will not complain, so should Duane Brown, Crennel, Myers, O'Brien, 'tackle 'em high and pray he falls down' Swearinger and 'falling down two games in a row costing a TD Kendrick Lewis.
I might include Bullock who only messed up one lay but it was a big one that could have swung flow of game. He has to make that field goal." My OP

If Fitz is removed, I am ok with that but so should DB for his poor play all season, Crennel for not having his ILBs and DB in right positions, Myers for bad decisions like blocking to his left on one play that LG did not need and allowing an opponent to run right past Myers on right tackling Fitz. His play has been questionable all season. O"Brien's play calling and time management has been ripped all over this MB. I do not know how to make it any more coherent for you about the poor tackling of Swearinger and if you watched last two games Lewis did fall in each allowing a touchdown.

Hope this helps?
 

Yaky

Noob
And?

How about the Colts being 8/16 on 3rd down vs our 1/8?
Their 27 first downs vs our 18?
456 yards vs our 332?
3rd down conversion is one of the most important stats for the offense, if not the most important. Texans struggle mightily every week to convert 3rd downs
Colts had reliable receivers on 3rd downs, Dallas had Beasley who is a 3rd down reliable receiver. Texans simply don't have anyone who steps up on 3rd downs.

I still can't understand why they cut Labhart, who looked extremely good in preseason on 3rd downs, always getting open and catching everything thrown to him. Better keep receivers who never make a catch on 3rd downs. LOL what a joke
 

brg88tx

Waterboy
Quote:
John McClain ✔ @McClain_on_NFL
DeAndre Hopkins said he takes blame for the loss for not recovering Fotz fumble at end. Said he thought it incompletion.


I've rewatched this play 20 times and there is no way Hopkins could have thought it was an incomplete pass. NOW he's a liar and a coward.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Quote:
John McClain ✔ @McClain_on_NFL
DeAndre Hopkins said he takes blame for the loss for not recovering Fotz fumble at end. Said he thought it incompletion.


I've rewatched this play 20 times and there is no way Hopkins could have thought it was an incomplete pass. NOW he's a liar and a coward.
You know...

Sometimes things happen (in life and on the football field) that kind of shock your system and at that moment you kind of freeze...not exactly processing what you're seeing. Now if that's the case, that's not good either.

But he could just be lying as well.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Quote:
John McClain ✔ @McClain_on_NFL
DeAndre Hopkins said he takes blame for the loss for not recovering Fotz fumble at end. Said he thought it incompletion.


I've rewatched this play 20 times and there is no way Hopkins could have thought it was an incomplete pass. NOW he's a liar and a coward.
You know...

Sometimes devastating things happen (in life and on the football field) that kind of shock your system and at that moment you kind of freeze.....not exactly processing what you're seeing. Now if that's the case, that's not good either.

But he could just be lying as well.
 

Vance87

All Pro
You know...

Sometimes devastating things happen (in life and on the football field) that kind of shock your system and at that moment you kind of freeze.....not exactly processing what you're seeing. Now if that's the case, that's not good either.

But he could just be lying as well.
That's what I thought he thought...that the pass was incomplete.

Regardless. In every game there is an incomplete pass, or a ball that gets loose even after the runner is down, and you see players scramble for it...just in case. That ball was the GAME. In that mode, you have to know that, and in that situation more than others, you can never be sure. You pounce on it even if there is the slightest chance that it could cost you a loss. I better see him go for every football for the rest of his life, even if it's a dead ball plain as day.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Regardless. In every game there is an incomplete pass, or a ball that gets loose even after the runner is down, and you see players scramble for it....
It's mostly defensive guys. I'm not saying offensive guys never scramble for those balls that hit the ground and aren't actually live, but defensive guys do it all the time.

It's just a difference in mindset/practice habits.

Defensive guys work on recovering fumbles...offensive guys work on not fumbling...generally speaking
 

Vance87

All Pro
It's mostly defensive guys. I'm not saying offensive guys never scramble for those balls that hit the ground and aren't actually live, but defensive guys do it all the time.

It's just a difference in mindset/practice habits.
You're right. But I bet he never does that again.
 

klockWork

Rookie
Late in the 4th quarter did anybody not noticed Watt was tripped by the Colts RT sticking his foot up when he got beat? Indy converted a crucial 3rd and 8 on that play. That would've been a 15yd penalty making it 3rd & 24. Combined that and the PI, I knew we weren't meant to win that game.
 

CoreyG

Waterboy
Late in the 4th quarter did anybody not noticed Watt was tripped by the Colts RT sticking his foot up when he got beat? Indy converted a crucial 3rd and 8 on that play. That would've been a 15yd penalty making it 3rd & 24. Combined that and the PI, I knew we weren't meant to win that game.
Yeah, that was rough.

Too bad, but what can you do.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Late in the 4th quarter did anybody not noticed Watt was tripped by the Colts RT sticking his foot up when he got beat? Indy converted a crucial 3rd and 8 on that play. That would've been a 15yd penalty making it 3rd & 24. Combined that and the PI, I knew we weren't meant to win that game.
Just reminds me of the 3rd and long in the first half ... Luck almost gets sacked but throws a TD instead.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Late in the 4th quarter did anybody not noticed Watt was tripped by the Colts RT sticking his foot up when he got beat? Indy converted a crucial 3rd and 8 on that play. That would've been a 15yd penalty making it 3rd & 24. Combined that and the PI, I knew we weren't meant to win that game.
I told you the Colts wouldn't get flagged for violations that weren't obvious.
Just reminds me of the 3rd and long in the first half ... Luck almost gets sacked but throws a TD instead.
You have to rush Luck wide on both sides and contain him in the pocket. We failed to do that the whole game.

Maybe the Raiders are going to move to San Antonio and change their name to the Rustlers. Then we'll have an alternative team to root for. I believe they'll reach greatness before the Texans do.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
I told you the Colts wouldn't get flagged for violations that weren't obvious.



You have to rush Luck wide on both sides and contain him in the pocket. We failed to do that the whole game.



Maybe the Raiders are going to move to San Antonio and change their name to the Rustlers. Then we'll have an alternative team to root for. I believe they'll reach greatness before the Texans do.

Would the Davis family still own them? If so, I'd take that bet.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Late in the 4th quarter did anybody not noticed Watt was tripped by the Colts RT sticking his foot up when he got beat? Indy converted a crucial 3rd and 8 on that play. That would've been a 15yd penalty making it 3rd & 24. Combined that and the PI, I knew we weren't meant to win that game.
Re-watching the game, focusing on Colts 3rd down plays and why the defense couldn't get off the field. It's extremely frustrating. Alot of times, it was simply missed tackles, and also missed penalties on the Colts.

This was a prime example. As you can see, after the trip, Cherilus looked over his shoulder to check for flags. (sorry, not obvious in my video, but very obvious in the replays)

http://youtu.be/Kuiccwr4Z8M
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Re-watching the game, focusing on Colts 3rd down plays and why the defense couldn't get off the field. It's extremely frustrating. Alot of times, it was simply missed tackles, and also missed penalties on the Colts.

This was a prime example. As you can see, after the trip, Cherilus looked over his shoulder to check for flags. (sorry, not obvious in my video, but very obvious in the replays)

http://youtu.be/Kuiccwr4Z8M
yeah it's pretty obvious
 

dream_team

All Pro
More video nightmare! The Fitz fumble play... lots of bad going on.

1) Sua-Filo, once again, gets beat. Forces Fitz to escape pocket.
2) Is the LB allowed to knock out Demaris Johnson like that? It's w/ in 5 yards, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to simply tackle a receiver.
3) Hopkins clearly had an excellent chance at recovering that fumble, but no effort. He was looking directly at Fitz.

http://youtu.be/rL4IRA8Orfk?list=UU7W_tV69JMHqFnWEpNdh19w
 

dream_team

All Pro
More video nightmare! The Fitz fumble play... lots of bad going on.

1) Sua-Filo, once again, gets beat. Forces Fitz to escape pocket.
2) Is the LB allowed to knock out Demaris Johnson like that? It's w/ in 5 yards, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to simply tackle a receiver.
3) Hopkins clearly had an excellent chance at recovering that fumble, but no effort. He was looking directly at Fitz.

http://youtu.be/rL4IRA8Orfk?list=UU7W_tV69JMHqFnWEpNdh19w
After watching that video more, that knock out on Demaris was huge. You can tell Fitz wanted to go to the quick out to Foster, but the RDE jumped to block any type of attempt. Fitz's next read appears to be Demaris, but he's on the ground from the hit. 3rd read is up top to the TE, but he's covered. You then know what happens next.

There's no way a LB can cover Demaris, could have been nice pickup.
 

klockWork

Rookie
More video nightmare! The Fitz fumble play... lots of bad going on.

1) Sua-Filo, once again, gets beat. Forces Fitz to escape pocket.
2) Is the LB allowed to knock out Demaris Johnson like that? It's w/ in 5 yards, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to simply tackle a receiver.
3) Hopkins clearly had an excellent chance at recovering that fumble, but no effort. He was looking directly at Fitz.

http://youtu.be/rL4IRA8Orfk?list=UU7W_tV69JMHqFnWEpNdh19w
Our pass protection was quite good on that play. Fitz had more than enough time to throw. Actually he had too much time, giving him a false sense of security. He actually had time to make a sandwich if he step a little further up and to the right.

Demarius was not tackle on that play. Give your eyes a break and take off your homer goggles. The LB tried to bump him, legally within 5 yards. But Demarius stopped short and reverse course. LB whiffed and stumbled forward, Demarius also stumbled on the cutback. So from the naked homer eyes it looked like our WR was assaulted.

Fitzpatrick failed to secure the ball and we lost. That's the only fact from the outcome.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Our pass protection was quite good on that play. Fitz had more than enough time to throw. Actually he had too much time, giving him a false sense of security. He actually had time to make a sandwich if he step a little further up and to the right.
I agree the protection was good enough, but doesn't change the fact XSF got beat by his guy, causing Fitz to leave the pocket. The coverage was good, so I would have liked to see Fitz tuck the ball there and run.

Demarius was not tackle on that play. Give your eyes a break and take off your homer goggles. The LB tried to bump him, legally within 5 yards. But Demarius stopped short and reverse course. LB whiffed and stumbled forward, Demarius also stumbled on the cutback. So from the naked homer eyes it looked like our WR was assaulted.
I admit you could be right. This isn't the best angle to see if there's actually contact. But there's two guys falling at the same exact time. That means there was contact, or simply coincidence. I think there was contact. Either way, I mentioned in my post, not sure if this is illegal contact considering its inside 5 yards.
 


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