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Hopkins traded to Cardinals?

It could be as simple as Hopkins no longer buying into O'Briens strategy and attempting to sway the locker room to give up on him. Doesn't make him a bad guy, but if the locker room didn't agree and word got back to the front office...I could see that as plenty of reason to shop him around.

It was reported below that Hop was unhappy and knew that simply asking for more money would see him to the door.

"In an interview with Greg Bishop of Sports Illustrated, Hopkins said he had spoken to his family throughout last season about a desire to move on, and move away from Texans coach Bill O’Brien. He thought O’Brien had been shopping him in a trade for more than a year.

Hopkins told Bishop he knew how to make it happen. He just had to ask for a raise."


sports.yahoo.com

DeAndre Hopkins wanted to get traded by Texans, knew he would be after asking for raise

DeAndre Hopkins opened up about the trade that shocked the NFL world.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com
 
Mr teX said:
And if we're going to channel Occam's razor then the simplest explanation is that it was purely a money thing. Evidence?
Click to expand...
You're leaving out the part of the timeline where O'Brien was talking to teams about trading Hopkins for more than a year. Hopkins didn't go to O'Brien about a renegotiation until last season. See below

theCATALYST said:
"In an interview with Greg Bishop of Sports Illustrated, Hopkins said he had spoken to his family throughout last season about a desire to move on, and move away from Texans coach Bill O’Brien. He thought O’Brien had been shopping him in a trade for more than a year.
Click to expand...
Why was O'Brien (who at the time was not the GM) sneaking around trying to get rid of Hopkins prior to Hop asking for a raise?

* BTW, a raise to Hopkins would have been cheaper than paying Cooks and Johnson.
 
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Lucky said:
Why was O'Brien (who at the time was not the GM) sneaking around trying to get rid of Hopkins prior to Hop asking for a raise?

* BTW, a raise to Hopkins would have been cheaper than paying Cooks and Johnson.
Click to expand...

If my theory is correct (and there is no reason or proof to think it is), O'Brien could possibly have felt threatened by Hopkins' attempt to sway the locker room against him and as such, started making backdoor attempts to move him. Seeing that he was not swaying the locker room to his side, I believe Hopkins understood that leaving the team would be the next best option. in the quote I shared above, it says Hopkins had spoken to his family throughout last season about a desire to move on, and move away from Texans coach Bill O’Brien.

It's just fan theory here and no proof, but in my mind a time line could go like this;

1) Hopkins tired of O'Brien and his philosophy, begins trying to sway locker room opinion in attempt to see a coaching change.
2) Hopkins doesn't get the support he initially thought he would get.
3) Word leaks to the front office and owners of the attempt.
4) Feeling threatened, O'Brien begins back door discussions on moving Hopkins.
5) Ownership seeing the locker room siding with O'Brien, gives him more power (i.e. GM position).
6) Learning of the back door dealings, front office and owner support, Hopkins is resigned to leaving the team and begins discussing it with his family.
7) Hopkins requests more money, facilitating his inevitable trade.

Again, it is just fan theory.
 
Lucky said:
You're leaving out the part of the timeline where O'Brien was talking to teams about trading Hopkins for more than a year. Hopkins didn't go to O'Brien about a renegotiation until last season. See below


Why was O'Brien (who at the time was not the GM) sneaking around trying to get rid of Hopkins prior to Hop asking for a raise?

* BTW, a raise to Hopkins would have been cheaper than paying Cooks and Johnson.
Click to expand...

Lol, Nuk's ego wasn't going to let him take a hit in his percieved value for noone...not Tunsil's impending contract, not DW4's impending contract & surely not for BoB's vision of how he wanted to build the team. & you're reaching really hard if you believe that his trade was mostly b/c of other things other than him wanting more money. Shrewd move on Nuk's part, b/c yes he has culpability in the trade whether you believe it or not, but the bottom line is, if the Texans FO had given him the money he was asking for, he would still be here and all that nonsense you're playing up from the SI article would've been water under the bridge to him.

It’s fair game to bring in his account of how things went down, but you have to also recognize that it is the only account we have on record & there's obviously another.

in addition to this, where did I imply that that meeting is the 1st and only time that Nuk came to the FO asking for a pay increase? I’m willing to bet that Nuk’s representation approached the FO at least 1 other time before that to discuss upgrading his contract and they got put on ignore................. largely b/c dude still had 3 years left on his current deal. All the meeting likely was was an attempt by him to get a definitive answer on whether it was gonna happen or not. As soon as BoB hit him with the No, Nuk went left and set his plan in motion to be traded away b/c he saw the writing on the wall with Tunsil and DW4’s contracts coming.

As far as your other stuff you're talking about.. Look you’re only really looking at the short term & you're making hella assumptions about how Nuk's potential new contract, or contract extension would be set up. Nuk's also 28..will be 29 midseason i believe, Cooks is 2 years younger, just as explosive & we can get out of his contract for little to nothing after next year. Johnson's is a bit more problematic, but even in his situation after next year, the cap hit is minimal. Nuk's potential contract extension.... no matter how you slice it would've hit us for at least the next 3 years...if we were lucky. That's at least 18-20 million dollars tied up in 1 guy, who while good is playing a position that can be easily compensated for in other ways. BoB & the FO opted for that route.
 
theCATALYST said:
If my theory is correct (and there is no reason or proof to think it is), O'Brien could possibly have felt threatened by Hopkins' attempt to sway the locker room against him and as such, started making backdoor attempts to move him. Seeing that he was not swaying the locker room to his side, I believe Hopkins understood that leaving the team would be the next best option. in the quote I shared above, it says Hopkins had spoken to his family throughout last season about a desire to move on, and move away from Texans coach Bill O’Brien.

It's just fan theory here and no proof, but in my mind a time line could go like this;

1) Hopkins tired of O'Brien and his philosophy, begins trying to sway locker room opinion in attempt to see a coaching change.
2) Hopkins doesn't get the support he initially thought he would get.
3) Word leaks to the front office and owners of the attempt.
4) Feeling threatened, O'Brien begins back door discussions on moving Hopkins.
5) Ownership seeing the locker room siding with O'Brien, gives him more power (i.e. GM position).
6) Learning of the back door dealings, front office and owner support, Hopkins is resigned to leaving the team and begins discussing it with his family.
7) Hopkins requests more money, facilitating his inevitable trade.

Again, it is just fan theory.
Click to expand...

#2 reminds me of how the original "aunt Vivian" got booted off the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air show. Tried to organize a coup with the other cast members to go to the producers/production company to get a raise for the entire cast. Of course it failed mostly b/c Will Smith was out on the whole the thing. When it was all said and done, she tried to go it alone & the show just replaced her & went on for several more successful seasons.

IOW's, BoB's out here trying to build a team man...Guys who only care about 1 goal & don't get embroiled in all the locker room nonsense. So
#2 would be silly on Nuk's part if he tried that simply b/c all BoB's been doing here his entire tenure here is adding "his" type of guys..team guys. The only way he would've had a shot at doing that is if he had DW4's ear. But DW4 being smart & looking out for himself & his money, steered clear of all the locker room politics.
 
If it was purely about money, then there is no way to justify paying JJ Watt when compared to his production. But he's Captain America, so dude barely has to do anything for the marketing department to justify his importance to the Texans brand.

And the 'baby mama' and Hernandez comments undermine that clearly partisan argument.

This is beyond talent. Nuk has HoF potential. You don't trade that caliber of player on money alone. At least the good GMs don't.
 
Double Barrel said:
If it was purely about money, then there is no way to justify paying JJ Watt when compared to his production. But he's Captain America, so dude barely has to do anything for the marketing department to justify his importance to the Texans brand.

And the 'baby mama' and Hernandez comments undermine that clearly partisan argument.

This is beyond talent. Nuk has HoF potential. You don't trade that caliber of player on money alone. At least the good GMs don't.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, this franchise never had one. lol
 
Double Barrel said:
If it was purely about money, then there is no way to justify paying JJ Watt when compared to his production. But he's Captain America, so dude barely has to do anything for the marketing department to justify his importance to the Texans brand.

And the 'baby mama' and Hernandez comments undermine that clearly partisan argument.

This is beyond talent. Nuk has HoF potential. You don't trade that caliber of player on money alone. At least the good GMs don't.
Click to expand...

It's the opposite actually. The good GM’s get rid of those guys right before they exit their primes, or when they start to become problems and replace them with comparable or better talent....they don’t pay them more b/c they pitch a hissyfit, or b/c they’re a fan favorite. Obviously noone's gonna confuse BoB the GM with Bill Polian, but you get my point.

And knock JJ all u want, but even with him missing a ton of time over the last 3-4 years and clearly on the downside of his career, he was/is still 1 of the most productive defensive linemen in our front 7 and in the NFL when he is out there & has been pretty much since he got here. Contrast that with his former colleague sitting at home now whose an all world talent too but hasn’t been able to string a 10 sack season together in 7 years. guess we should’ve paid him top pass rusher money instead of trading him too huh? Also, to my knowledge, JJ hasn’t been angling to get a raise/new contract like Nuk was and even if he were, he only has 2 years left on his deal....Nuk had 3. I Believe we’ve only reworked 1 guys’ deal with that many years left on his deal in the very short history of our franchise...AJ. And as productive as Nuk has been, he ain’t no Andre Johnson.

So even if the “baby mama” convo was the straw that broke the camel's back for him, jettisoning him so that we could calm the locker room & ensure we weren’t going to have any issues moving forward in being able to pay our star LT, QB and young LB..it was unfortunately a necessary evil that had to be done. Bottom line is, it wasn't his turn & there were just other more deserving guys that we needed to make sure we got paid so that we got a chance to keep them......DW4 is the last & most important guy we need to get locked up.

just found out The Saint and Kamara are now at it..figures considering they just dropped a boatload if money on Micheal Thomas.
 
Good stuff, man. I don't care about being right. I'm just posting my gut feelings. Heck, I would be glad to be wrong if it meant O'Brien's moves brought success to the team. Time will tell.

That said, the following statements are contradictory:

Mr teX said:
It's the opposite actually. The good GM’s get rid of those guys right before they exit their primes,
Click to expand...

Mr teX said:
And knock JJ all u want, but even with him missing a ton of time over the last 3-4 years and clearly on the downside of his career, he was/is still 1 of the most productive defensive linemen in our front 7 and in the NFL when he is out there & has been pretty much since he got here.
Click to expand...

I'm not knocking JJ, but just being objective about it.

JJ is clearly past his prime. It's living in the past to act like he can be anything more than a shadow of his former self.

"when he is out there" = he's missed 32 games since September 2016. Basically two seasons worth of games.

I love JJ, but you have to ask what a good GM would do, and it's not keep an old vet with constant injuries and taking up a large percentage of cap space.

Maybe O'Brien would ship him off if the McNairs would let him. Who knows? Hard to tell with these owners and their past meddling ways.
 
Double Barrel said:
JJ is clearly past his prime. It's living in the past to act like he can be anything more than a shadow of his former self.

"when he is out there" = he's missed 32 games since September 2016. Basically two seasons worth of games.

I love JJ, but you have to ask what a good GM would do, and it's not keep an old vet with constant injuries and taking up a large percentage of cap space.

Maybe O'Brien would ship him off if the McNairs would let him. Who knows? Hard to tell with these owners and their past meddling ways.
Click to expand...

You already know the reason as you stated below.

Double Barrel said:
dude barely has to do anything for the marketing department to justify his importance to the Texans brand.
Click to expand...

JJ's entry is not looked at on the P&L statement, he's viewed on the balance sheet.
 
Mr teX said:
It’s fair game to bring in his account of how things went down, but you have to also recognize that it is the only account we have on record & there's obviously another.
Click to expand...
Why would you assume the other account would be flattering to O'Brien and the Texans?

Here's the timeline:

HC O'Brien put out feelers to trade Hopkins
GM Gaine shut the trade possibility down
GM Gaine is fired
Hopkins asks for raise (not trade)
GM/HC O'Brien trades Hopkins

Somewhere in there is the "Hernandez" meeting. There are zero reports of Hopkins asking for a raise prior to O'Brien becoming the de facto HC. Let's try to keep the conversation based on actual reporting, rather than rank speculation.
 
Mr teX said:
It's the opposite actually. The good GM’s get rid of those guys right before they exit their primes, or when they start to become problems and replace them with comparable or better talent....they don’t pay them more b/c they pitch a hissyfit, or b/c they’re a fan favorite. Obviously noone's gonna confuse BoB the GM with Bill Polian, but you get my point.

And knock JJ all u want, but even with him missing a ton of time over the last 3-4 years and clearly on the downside of his career, he was/is still 1 of the most productive defensive linemen in our front 7 and in the NFL when he is out there & has been pretty much since he got here. Contrast that with his former colleague sitting at home now whose an all world talent too but hasn’t been able to string a 10 sack season together in 7 years. guess we should’ve paid him top pass rusher money instead of trading him too huh? Also, to my knowledge, JJ hasn’t been angling to get a raise/new contract like Nuk was and even if he were, he only has 2 years left on his deal....Nuk had 3. I Believe we’ve only reworked 1 guys’ deal with that many years left on his deal in the very short history of our franchise...AJ. And as productive as Nuk has been, he ain’t no Andre Johnson.

So even if the “baby mama” convo was the straw that broke the camel's back for him, jettisoning him so that we could calm the locker room & ensure we weren’t going to have any issues moving forward in being able to pay our star LT, QB and young LB..it was unfortunately a necessary evil that had to be done. Bottom line is, it wasn't his turn & there were just other more deserving guys that we needed to make sure we got paid so that we got a chance to keep them......DW4 is the last & most important guy we need to get locked up.

just found out The Saints and Kamara are now at it..figures considering they just dropped a boatload of money on Michael Thomas.
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I bet if the Saints trade Kamara they get fair value in return. Of coarse they would be stupid to trade a player as important to their success as Kamara is.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
I bet if the Saints trade Kamara they get fair value in return. Of coarse they would be stupid to trade a player as important to their success as Kamara is.
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You're only as valuable as what someone is willing to pay for you....But you nor a few others in here have any concept of that premise. Clowney didn't either.....but he's finding that out now though!!!!!!! Ya'll are approaching this like y'all are walking up on a car dealership where value can be broken down in to concrete costs for parts and materials & other perks lol. These are humans with varying skill levels and degrees of effectiveness. "fair value" varies widely depending on a bunch of different things.
 
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Mr teX said:
You're only as valuable as what someone is willing to pay for you....But you nor a few others in here have any concept of that premise. Clowney didn't either.....but he's finding that out now though!!!!!!! Ya'll are approaching this like y'all are walking up on a car dealership where value can be broken down in to concrete costs for parts and materials & other perks lol. These are humans with varying skill levels and degrees of effectiveness. "fair value" varies widely depending on a bunch of different things.
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You seem to be on the outside looking in in regards to Kamara because like me they see Kamara as a very important part to the Saints offense and team overall. I have no problem with the Saints trading Kamara if they don't get taken like we did with DH. I somehow doubt they trade him though and if they do they will get fair value.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
You seem to be on the outside looking in in regards to Kamara because like me they see Kamara as a very important part to the Saints offense and team overall. I have no problem with the Saints trading Kamara if they don't get taken like we did with DH. I somehow doubt they trade him though and if they do they will get fair value.
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Fair value according to whom is the question you’re not asking.
 
Lucky said:
You're leaving out the part of the timeline where O'Brien was talking to teams about trading Hopkins for more than a year. Hopkins didn't go to O'Brien about a renegotiation until last season. See below


Why was O'Brien (who at the time was not the GM) sneaking around trying to get rid of Hopkins prior to Hop asking for a raise?

* BTW, a raise to Hopkins would have been cheaper than paying Cooks and Johnson.
Click to expand...

He wouldn't have been cheaper after a renegotiated deal next yr.
 
Report: Cardinals close to contract extension with DeAndre Hopkins
Posted by Charean Williams on September 7, 2020, 7:41 PM EDT

After the Texans traded DeAndre Hopkins this offseason, a report surfaced that the decision was made solely over money with the receiver wanting a deal in the range of $18 million to $20 million a year.
The Cardinals began working on a new deal for Hopkins soon after trading for the All-Pro.

They now are closing in a contract extension for Hopkins, Ian Rapoport of NFL Media reports, and he likely gets even more than that. Hopkins is negotiating the deal himself.

Hopkins has three years left on his current deal at base salaries of $12.5 million, $13.5 million, and $13.915 million, which makes him vastly underpaid.

Falcons receiver Julio Jones makes $22 million per season, which tops the position in per year average, and Cowboys receiver Amari Cooper signed a $100 million deal this offseason that averages $20 million a season.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1303135454523523072
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Man.....good for Hopkins!!!! The man is deserving of every penny he collects. If he's handling his own negotiations and lands a deal with those numbers, he might be a high demand agent when his career is complete.

Hopkins will put up numbers in 2020 that'll keep him on pace to visit Canton, OH as a HOF'er. He's a truly gifted talent who was strapped to an organization that had no idea as to how a Super Bowl franchise is built and maintained. The Cardinals and Fitzgerald have been to the big game......Texans have never even got a whiff of a AFCCG much less the thought of making it to the SB.

I think the trio of Hopkins, Fitzgerald and Kirk will be a special receiving corp for their offense. Texans receiving group will have to stay 100% healthy to be in the same conversation.
 
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zshawn10 said:
Hopkins gets new 2 year deal; 54.5M in new money, 42.75M guaranteed

no trade clause and no franchise clause
Click to expand...

Hopkins got what he was angling for. A good deal for the Cards too in the sense that it's a very short term deal.
 
thunderkyss said:
I’m thinking the Patriots would have moved on as well. They’d have gotten more in a trade, but he’d have been gone just the same.
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Belechick is a true master at moving his chess pieces and for the most part having the moves workout in his favor. OB is still trying to figure out how the "kinging" works on the checker board.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Man.....good for Hopkins!!!! The man is deserving of every penny he collects. If he's handling his own negotiations and lands a deal with those numbers, he might be a high demand agent when his career is complete.

Hopkins will put up numbers in 2020 that'll keep him on pace to visit Canton, OH as a HOF'er. He's a truly gifted talent who was strapped to an organization that had no idea as to how a Super Bowl franchise is built and maintained. The Cardinals and Fitzgerald have been to the big game and won it......Texans have never even got a whiff of a AFCCG much less the thought of making it to the SB.

I think the trio of Hopkins, Fitzgerald and Kirk will be a special receiving corp for their offense. Texans receiving group will have to stay 100% healthy to be in the same conversation.
Click to expand...

The Cards and Fitz have won the big game?

The Cards are a winning org?

Nuk is a HOF'er?
 
steelbtexan said:
The Cards and Fitz have won the big game?

The Cards are a winning org?

Nuk is a HOF'er?
Click to expand...

1. Corrected....put won versus been. Warner and Fitzgerald.
2. They've been further than the Texans.
3. Hopkins will be a HOF'er when his career is completed.
 
steelbtexan said:
Hopkins got what he was angling for. A good deal for the Cards too in the sense that it's a very short term deal.
Click to expand...

Well... it's a five year deal right? The three years he's already contractually obligated to them for plus the two new years.


They should be able to split the signing bonus over 5 years. I wonder what his salary is over the last two years.

No trade.... pfft, no franchise... wtf are the Cardinals thinking?
 
Mr teX said:
Wait i'm confused....Lucky told me that giving Nuk an extension/new money/ a new contract was gonna be cheaper than paying Cooks & Johnson...what gives?
Click to expand...

That was when the Nuke marketing machine was poisoning the market with his, "I just asked for an extra $4M/yr."
 
zshawn10 said:
Hopkins gets new 2 year deal; 54.5M in new money, 42.75M guaranteed

no trade clause and no franchise clause
Click to expand...
Mr teX said:
Wait i'm confused....Lucky told me that giving Nuk an extension/new money/ a new contract was gonna be cheaper than paying Cooks & Johnson...what gives?
Click to expand...
Cooks and David Johnson's contracts = $47 million + $20.25 million = $67.25 million
Hopkins new money = $54.5 million

I hope this eases your confusion.
 
Lucky said:
Cooks and David Johnson's contracts = $47 million + $20.25 million = $67.25 million
Hopkins new money = $54.5 million

I hope this eases your confusion.
Click to expand...

Lol, no confusion on my part.. but I think you’re a bit confused if u believe both Cooks and Johnson will be on this roster come 2021.


if by some miracle they are, best believe a contract restructure is in order.

You’re assuming both will be around to finish out their contracts. High probability at least 1 of them won’t.
 
Lucky said:
Cooks and David Johnson's contracts = $47 million + $20.25 million = $67.25 million
Hopkins new money = $54.5 million

I hope this eases your confusion.
Click to expand...


No confusion over here...just knew the whole “extra 4 million” thing he spewed was garbage from the get go. His per yr bump in pay was around 6 million...the 2 extra years puts him at 33 years old when that contract is up. Not really smart to be tying up that much money into a WR.

We can get out of the Cooks contract after this year.
 
thunderkyss said:
Well... it's a five year deal right? The three years he's already contractually obligated to them for plus the two new years.


They should be able to split the signing bonus over 5 years. I wonder what his salary is over the last two years.

No trade.... pfft, no franchise... wtf are the Cardinals thinking?
Click to expand...
He got a 2 yr extension to the remaining 3 years on his current deal...the new money is impressive for the last 2 years but I believe over the total 5 years it's approximately $18M per year.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
He got a 2 yr extension to the remaining 3 years on his current deal...the new money is impressive for the last 2 years but I believe over the total 5 years it's approximately $18M per year.
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That's what I thought. Not at all a short term deal. They're married for the next five.

& they can't trade him. Can't tag him.

Married
 
thunderkyss said:
Well... it's a five year deal right? The three years he's already contractually obligated to them for plus the two new years.


They should be able to split the signing bonus over 5 years. I wonder what his salary is over the last two years.

No trade.... pfft, no franchise... wtf are the Cardinals thinking?
Click to expand...

Because they're the Cardinals.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol, no confusion on my part.. but I think you’re a bit confused if u believe both Cooks and Johnson will be on this roster come 2021.
Click to expand...
Mr teX said:
We can get out of the Cooks contract after this year.
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So basically, you're saying Cooks and Johnson are worthless, will be dumped in a year, and we gave Hopkins away for nothing. I hope you're wrong, but I'm not able to argue against it until I see these guys on the field.
 
Lucky said:
So basically, you're saying Cooks and Johnson are worthless, will be dumped in a year, and we gave Hopkins away for nothing. I hope you're wrong, but I'm not able to argue against it until I see these guys on the field.
Click to expand...

No, what I’ve always been trying to say is there is a macro picture that needed to be considered. We had to pay Tunsil. We had to pay DW4. Those guys were more deserving than Nuk and trying to pay him what everyone knew he wanted was going to put our ability and flexibility of signing those other 2 at risk. Period. And AZ giving him that type of money is going to bite them in the ass next year when they have to contend with resigning Chandler Jones & Patrick Peterson b/c they were already up against it BEFORE the Nuk extension.

and Just b/c Cooks and Johnson could possibly be gone after this year doesn’t make their Acquistion “worthless”...but the flexibility of being able drop them and take a minimal hit, is worth something too. & just as easily as we could jettison them we could also keep them and restructure their deals to something more appropriate. Doubt AZ will be able to do that with Nuk’s new deal.
 
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