Hopkins traded to Cardinals?

[badboy]

Watson may also be prone to the influence of results. Hopkins had a 2.7% drop rate, half of the 5.5% drop rate of Fuller and Stills. Watson had confidence Hop would make the play. Confidence Fuller, Stills, and the new additions (Cooks and Cobb) will have to earn.

Watson may indeed become a better QB without Hopkins. That doesn't necessarily mean he will put up better numbers or the Texans will have a better offense without an All Pro WR.

I think the thought is a completed pass to Hopkins was not always the best play. I do not think anyone is denying connection between # 4 and #10 yet several plays involved Watson throwing to Hop in highlight targets that were high risk and not most productive. Also Hop had to come back to LOS in order to bail out Dashaun.

 

[Lucky]

I do not think anyone is denying connection between # 4 and #10 yet several plays involved Watson throwing to Hop in highlight targets that were high risk and not most productive. Also Hop had to come back to LOS in order to bail out Dashaun.

I'd like to know where you came up with the idea that throws to Hopkins contained more risk. Over 2018-2019, Hopkins was targeted 313 times. Over those 313 targets, 4 were intercepted. That's a 1.3% interception rate. Now consider that the interception rate to all Texan receivers other than Hopkins was at 2.5%. Basically, passes to Hopkins were half as risky than to other receivers. Exactly the opposite of your supposition.

Also, receivers are coached to come back to the ball after the route is completed and a pass has not been thrown. At least in my 50+ years of living on the planet.

 

[Lucky]

Our offense was crap with a top 5 QB & an All Pro WR.

just saying

The Texans were 13th in offense last year. So if the Texans offense was crap, there were 19 offenses even crappier. I think the word you were searching for to describe the 2019 Texans offense was mediocre. Take an All Pro WR out of a mediocre offense, and "crap" very well may come into play.

Just saying.

 

[Lucky]

you quoted the part about Hopkins not practicing.

I did.

 

[thunderkyss]

I did.

But replied about his contract demands

 

[Lucky]

But replied about his contract demands

OK. You may need to elaborate a tad more.

 

[badboy]

I'd like to know where you came up with the idea that throws to Hopkins contained more risk. Over 2018-2019, Hopkins was targeted 313 times. Over those 313 targets, 4 were intercepted. That's a 1.3% interception rate. Now consider that the interception rate to all Texan receivers other than Hopkins was at 2.5%. Basically, passes to Hopkins were half as risky than to other receivers. Exactly the opposite of your supposition.

Also, receivers are coached to come back to the ball after the route is completed and a pass has not been thrown. At least in my 50+ years of living on the planet.

Catching a pass does not make it any less risky nor does teaching receiver to come back to bail the QB out make it something to be satisfied with. RBs are taught to cover fumbles and when they do, we breathe sigh of relief; doesn't change fact the back should not fumble.
I don't want my WR1 being a "safety valve" just because he has good hands. I want him down field to pick up yardage. Shouldn't take you 50 years to figure that out.

 

[Lucky]

Catching a pass does not make it any less risky nor does teaching receiver to come back to bail the QB out make it something to be satisfied with. RBs are taught to cover fumbles and when they do, we breathe sigh of relief; doesn't change fact the back should not fumble.

I've got nothing.

 

[steelbtexan]

Why do we care? Cardinals got a screaming good deal, and part of that was known to be a contract upgrade. They knew the score. The savings off Johnson's contract alone could fund Hopkins' redo. I made the same case for the Texans keeping Hopkins and not taking Johnson's contract months ago. No need to rehash that.

I don't care at all.

Nuk is Kiem/Kingsbury's problem now.

Good riddance.

 

[SnakeEyes]

According to the chart, Stills is a steal we need to hang on to and use him!

 

[steelbtexan]

Our offense was crap with a top 5 QB & an All Pro WR.

just saying

The Texans had a top 5 QB?

 

[thunderkyss]

The Texans had a top 5 QB?

There’s a whole thread about it. I’d post a link, but I’m not smart enough to figure it out.

 

[steelbtexan]

There’s a whole thread about it. I’d post a link, but I’m not smart enough to figure it out.

I guess that's 1 man's opinion.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I think the thought is a completed pass to Hopkins was not always the best play. I do not think anyone is denying connection between # 4 and #10 yet several plays involved Watson throwing to Hop in highlight targets that were high risk and not most productive. Also Hop had to come back to LOS in order to bail out Dashaun.

Agree with what you posted, except the bolded. Hopkins seldom turned back to the LOS when Watson was in trouble. I used to point that out often during games.

 

[TxnsJuggernaut1]

He still is the worst GM we ever had and I thought we couldn’t do worse than Casserly.

I am and have been critical of much of the things BO'b has and hasn't done and while it seems we got hosed in our Hopkins trade if the trade and the moves he made nets us any kind of positive production then I think he deserves at least a C+ grade as a GM.

 

[Speedy]

I am and have been critical of much of the things BO'b has and hasn't done and while it seems we got hosed in our Hopkins trade if the trade and the moves he made nets us any kind of positive production then I think he deserves at least a C+ grade as a GM.

I don’t care if Johnson rushes for 2,500 yards and they win the SB this season. He got hosed in the trade plain and simple. Less talented WRs are bringing in a much greater haul than you got for a 3 time 1st team All-Pro.

 

[steelbtexan]

I don’t care if Johnson rushes for 2,500 yards and they win the SB this season. He got hosed in the trade plain and simple. Less talented WRs are bringing in a much greater haul than you got for a 3 time 1st team All-Pro.

He was on the block for a yr and a half. I think you have an inflated perception of what Hopkins was really worth to NFL GM's.

 

[PapaL]

I don’t care if Johnson rushes for 2,500 yards and they win the SB this season. He got hosed in the trade plain and simple. Less talented WRs are bringing in a much greater haul than you got for a 3 time 1st team All-Pro.

This.

We can say a lot of thing to make ourselves feel better and MAYBE long run it MIGHT turn out ok but that’s facts are, we didn’t get value. Period. We got outsmarted or we cut off our noses to spite our face. Those are the only possibilities here.

 

[Double Barrel]

He was on the block for a yr and a half. I think you have an inflated perception of what Hopkins was really worth to NFL GM's.

Do we have any official confirmation about this or is it just general hearsay?

I honestly have a hard time believing that a WR of his caliber was shopped for a year and 1) nobody bit, and 2) we never heard anything about it until after he was traded.

 

[badboy]

Do we have any official confirmation about this or is it just general hearsay?

I honestly have a hard time believing that a WR of his caliber was shopped for a year and 1) nobody bit, and 2) we never heard anything about it until after he was traded.

OBrien is known to keep injuries to himself so maybe trade discussions also? Of course other teams might leak but BOB should know whom he could discuss trade of a player such as DeAndre. I continue to think Hopkins trade was originated by the owner not the coach/GM or the Chairman/CEO. The stuff about baby mamas, etc could offend her when it might not necessarily the others in management. "Get him gone now!" more realistically fits what we know.

Response from OB : Yes boss!
Response from Cal : Yes Mama!

 

[Lucky]

Do we have any official confirmation about this or is it just general hearsay?

Brian Gaine laughed at O'Brien's suggestion of trading Hopkins. Once Gaine was canned, and O'Brien added GM to his resume, he traded Hopkins as soon as he could.

O'Brien got poor value because he's not a good poker player. He treated Hopkins like a hot potato, taking the first offer he got. Taking David Johnson's contract, who was about to be cut, was the real novice move. Sign Johnson for $3-4 million (his actual market value) after the Cards release him. GMs knew by then that dealing with O'Brien was like taking candy from a baby.

Gaine never put Hopkins on the market after the 2018 season. But, I do believe O'Brien went behind his back to put out feelers. That's what steelb is referring to, per Mike Lombardi's report. So think about that. Hopkins had just put up 1572 yards and 11 TDs. And O'Brien wants him gone. If that doesn't prove that the trade was never about performance, nothing will. And, it's also confirmation that O'Brien had been a snake in the organization. Trying to act like the de facto GM and getting 2 GMs fired.

 

[steelbtexan]

Do we have any official confirmation about this or is it just general hearsay?

I honestly have a hard time believing that a WR of his caliber was shopped for a year and 1) nobody bit, and 2) we never heard anything about it until after he was traded.

I think it was McClain that reported this.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Hopkins was never on the market for 18 months. If OB made this statement, it was to cover his insane knee-jerk trade. I’ll continue to categorize this as a rumor b/c bottom line....OB wanted him gone for whatever his reasons were.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Hopkins was involved in trade rumors Oct 2019 just before the trade deadline...............the interest was one-way...........several teams were calling the Texans...............the Texans on their way to the playoffs never entertained or responded to any (per Glazer at the time). There was a definite factor that later turned front office perspective against Hopkins, subsequently leading to his hurried exit from the Texans.............something beyond contract issues............something that I don't feel the need to post on this MB.

 

[Mr teX]

Some here have no clue talking about we didn't get "the value" we should've gotten. The reality is, BoB & the FO did quietly shop him for over a year trying to get what they thought was the appropriate value. That has been pointed out by several posters in this very thread by highlighting testimonials from at least 3 other teams who admit they showed interest, but declined to move forward. So unless you believe that those teams declined to move forward b/c they didn't believe Nuk was worth at least a 2nd..which is what we got from AZ, you can be assured that our FO was asking for more than that.

2nd....A few have already spoken to this, but yes it is known that he was quietly being shopped for at least a year. In fact, that was part of the reason why we didn't get as much for him as folks thought we should've gotten according to Tom Pellisero of the NFL network. IOW's, once it became known in NFL front office circles that he was on the outs here whether it was for personality conflicts with BoB, contract issues or both, FO's were reluctant to give up anything more than what we eventually got for him.

So viewed in the proper light & with all variables in play, the Nuk trade is much more similar to the Antonio Brown trade than the Stephon Diggs trade that people like to compare it to. As talented as Brown was, the Steelers couldn't get more than a 3rd for him, once teams found out he was being shopped. Also, He like Nuk was a 3 time All pro that wanted a new deal & when it became apparent that he wasn't going to get what he wanted, he started acting out, albeit Brown went way beyond what Nuk likely did.

 

[Double Barrel]

I don't have any insight into the Texans FO, so it was just a curious question.

That said, as a fan, I have NEVER got an AB vibe from Nuk.

But no matter. In the end, players are just commodities to franchises, and their 'worth' is based on a variety of factors, including talent, salary demands, marketing opportunities, public perception, and just plain old locker room chemistry.

I do think this trade will define O'Brien as a GM, for better or for worse. As a fan, I'll just hope it's for the better.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

UPDATED: AUGUST 28, 2020 AT 10:42 PM
Wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins #10 of the Arizona Cardinals warms-up during a NFL team training camp at State Farm Stadium on August 25, 2020 in Glendale, Arizona. (Photo by Christian Petersen/Getty Images)

Arizona Cardinals general manager Steve Keim reiterated Friday that the team has wanted, from the outset of acquiring wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins, to address the contract of their blockbuster trade acquisition.

In joining Arizona Sports’ Doug & Wolf, Keim said he wouldn’t publicly discuss ongoing contract situations but repeated a sentiment the organization has expressed previously:

“You know it’s not my practice to talk about any negotiations publicly,” Keim said. “But I will say this: We made this crystal clear from the start, that we wanted to address his contract situation and certainly put him in a position that would respect how we think of him.”
LINK

 

[Lucky]

That said, as a fan, I have NEVER got an AB vibe from Nuk.

This is getting beyond ridiculous. Here are the excuses for making the Hopkins trade.

Hop wanted more $$$ (OK, I believe that)
Hop wasn't that good (Really?)
Hop was not running routes correctly (Watson found him)
Watson relied on Hopkins too much (Who is to blame for the mediocre receivers around him?)
Hop doesn't practice (But plays with a busted shoulder and busted ribs in playoff games)
Hop and O'Brien were at odds after a meeting where O'Brien compared him to Aaron Hernandez (This one I believe)
Hop was the Texans Antonio Brown (I'm at a loss on this one)
Hop did something so vile it cannot be spoken (Double murder? Ran a pit bull fight ring?)

If there was something sinister regarding Hopkins, one of the top NFL reporters would have unearthed it by now. Not McClain. Someone that's good at their job. Why can't it be this simple?

Hopkins lost respect for O'Brien. Everyone knew it. Hopkins was traded.

 

[TxnsJuggernaut1]

I don’t care if Johnson rushes for 2,500 yards and they win the SB this season. He got hosed in the trade plain and simple. Less talented WRs are bringing in a much greater haul than you got for a 3 time 1st team All-Pro.

The outcome of the trade maters to me. If David Johnson runs for a lot of yards and catches a lot of passes for plus yardage and we win the the SB and the pick we got turns out to be good to great than you could say we got as good as we gave for the trade. If the scenario that you point out takes place I don't see how you could continue to hate the trade. I did not say at this time that I would give BO'b an A+ but he will get an overall passing grade from me for all the moves he made if we win our division and at least make it to the AFC championship. As of now I feel we got hosed in the trade but if Johnson at least makes the pro bowl than I just can not see giving BO'b a failing grade. I will also base my opinion of the trade on how DeAndre Hopkins does for the Cardinals. I have no doubt he will be great for them but I won't swear on it. As of now only a fool would say we got a good return on the trade. I have a bad feeling David Johnson will be injured early and or only look pedestrian a best.

 

[steelbtexan]

Hopkins is the Cards problem now.

As far as making the AFCCG goes, the Ravens and hiefs are more talented with the Titans gaining ground fast. So I dont expect the Texans to make it to the AFCCG. I'm waiting to see how Blacklock/DJ/Cooks do before I judge the trade.

 

[Speedy]

The outcome of the trade maters to me. If David Johnson runs for a lot of yards and catches a lot of passes for plus yardage and we win the the SB and the pick we got turns out to be good to great than you could say we got as good as we gave for the trade. If the scenario that you point out takes place I don't see how you could continue to hate the trade. I did not say at this time that I would give BO'b an A+ but he will get an overall passing grade from me for all the moves he made if we win our division and at least make it to the AFC championship. As of now I feel we got hosed in the trade but if Johnson at least makes the pro bowl than I just can not see giving BO'b a failing grade. I will also base my opinion of the trade on how DeAndre Hopkins does for the Cardinals. I have no doubt he will be great for them but I won't swear on it. As of now only a fool would say we got a good return on the trade. I have a bad feeling David Johnson will be injured early and or only look pedestrian a best.

The trade is not good because you got raped on value. If the parts of it you did get in return happen to be lightning in a bottle, great. But that doesn’t change the value that should have been obtained for a player of that magnitude.

Imaging hitting on what you did get in return AND getting the value you should have gotten. Having a 1st round pick to go along with that would have had the franchise in pretty good shape going forward.

 

[TxnsJuggernaut1]

The trade is not good because you got raped on value. If the parts of it you did get in return happen to be lightning in a bottle, great. But that doesn’t change the value that should have been obtained for a player of that magnitude.

Imaging hitting on what you did get in return AND getting the value you should have gotten. Having a 1st round pick to go along with that would have had the franchise in pretty good shape going forward.

I get your point. Still the trade won't seem so bad if it ends with us having a really good season.

 

[Double Barrel]

This is getting beyond ridiculous. Here are the excuses for making the Hopkins trade.

Hop wanted more $$$ (OK, I believe that)
Hop wasn't that good (Really?)
Hop was not running routes correctly (Watson found him)
Watson relied on Hopkins too much (Who is to blame for the mediocre receivers around him?)
Hop doesn't practice (But plays with a busted shoulder and busted ribs in playoff games)
Hop and O'Brien were at odds after a meeting where O'Brien compared him to Aaron Hernandez (This one I believe)
Hop was the Texans Antonio Brown (I'm at a loss on this one)
Hop did something so vile it cannot be spoken (Double murder? Ran a pit bull fight ring?)

If there was something sinister regarding Hopkins, one of the top NFL reporters would have unearthed it by now. Not McClain. Someone that's good at their job. Why can't it be this simple?

Hopkins lost respect for O'Brien. Everyone knew it. Hopkins was traded.

Yep. And I never really trust McClain to be truthful. He's just carrying water and bootlicking to keep his press credentials and guest spots on various radio shows. I do not expect much insight from him, much less actual critical analysis.

Occam's razor = "Hopkins lost respect for O'Brien. Everyone knew it. Hopkins was traded."

 

[OptimisticTexan]

If Hopkins was “ever” a bad seed in the Texans organization....it never became public until “after” he was traded. So any negatives aimed at this guy who happens to be one of the top receivers in the NFL.....I’ll be happy to call BS on that position.

 

[Lucky]

I'm waiting to see how Blacklock/DJ/Cooks do before I judge the trade.

Cooks wasn’t part of the trade. Judge Cooks versus other WRs available with the draft pick that was traded for him.

 

[thunderkyss]

“You know it’s not my practice to talk about any negotiations publicly,” Keim said. “But I will say this: We made this crystal clear from the start, that we wanted to address his contract situation and certainly put him in a position that would respect how we think of him.”
LINK

Wow, so even a team motivated to sign him to big money is having trouble signing him to big money.

 

[steelbtexan]

Cooks wasn’t part of the trade. Judge Cooks versus other WRs available with the draft pick that was traded for him.
[/QUOTE

I see the Hopkins trade as a move up from 53 to 40 plus using 53 to get Cooks. Plus adding DJ and a 2021 4th. The moves are all inner related.

Wow, so even a team motivated to sign him to big money is having trouble signing him to big money.

Speaks volumes

He's the Cards problem now.

 

[steelbtexan]

The trade is not good because you got raped on value. If the parts of it you did get in return happen to be lightning in a bottle, great. But that doesn’t change the value that should have been obtained for a player of that magnitude.

Imaging hitting on what you did get in return AND getting the value you should have gotten. Having a 1st round pick to go along with that would have had the franchise in pretty good shape going forward.

In your mind his value was worth 1 thing. In NFL GM's minds he was worth another. Why did NFL GM's place less value on Hopkins than you do? Look at what the Cards are dealing with right now for your answer.

 

[Boris]

There was a definite factor that later turned front office perspective against Hopkins, subsequently leading to his hurried exit from the Texans.............something beyond contract issues............something that I don't feel the need to post on this MB.

i take that to mean an off-the-field/personal life issue. Surprised nothing has been leaked. Unusual.

 

[Lucky]

Quoted from @steelbtexan post.

I see the Hopkins trade as a move up from 53 to 40 plus using 53 to get Cooks. Plus adding DJ and a 2021 4th. The moves are all inner related.

You can look at whatever you like. The trades were:

1) Hopkins + 2020 4th round pick (#114) for David Johnson, 2020 2nd round pick (#40), and 2021 4th round pick

2) Cooks + 2020 4th round pick for 2020 2nd round pick (#57)

Cooks will never match Hopkins. And it's not fair to compare the 2, they weren't traded for each other. It will be fair to compare Cooks with WRs available at pick #57. Van Jefferson, Denzel Mims, and others.

 

[Lucky]

Look at what the Cards are dealing with right now for your answer.

The Cards are negotiating a contract. What's the big deal about that? Didn't O'Brien just re-up a deal with a player he traded for (Tunsil)?

 

[steelbtexan]

The Cards are negotiating a contract. What's the big deal about that? Didn't O'Brien just re-up a deal with a player he traded for (Tunsil)?

Difference is Tunsil didn't fake a hamstring injury during camp.

 

[Lucky]

i take that to mean an off-the-field/personal life issue. Surprised nothing has been leaked. Unusual.

We know O'Brien addressed the "Baby Mamas" in the "Aaron Hernandez" meeting. Was there more than that? Does it matter? Short of rape or murder, what could Hop have done that forced him out of the organization?

 

[Lucky]

Difference is Tunsil didn't fake a hamstring injury during camp.

That's because O'Brien was smart enough to take care of Tunsil before camp.

*Bookmark this. I just said O'Brien did something smart.

 

[steelbtexan]

Quoted from @steelbtexan post.



You can look at whatever you like. The trades were:

1) Hopkins + 2020 4th round pick (#114) for David Johnson, 2020 2nd round pick (#40), and 2021 4th round pick

2) Cooks + 2020 4th round pick for 2020 2nd round pick (#57)

Cooks will never match Hopkins. And it's not fair to compare the 2, they weren't traded for each other. It will be fair to compare Cooks with WRs available at pick #57. Van Jefferson, Denzel Mims, and others.

The Hopkins trade allowed them to get an upgrade on the DL with a higher draft pick and trade for Cooks with #53. BTW, Cooks has started in 2 of the last 3 SB's. He may not equal Hopkins production, but if healthy he makes the Texans offense much more dangerous with his speed and DW4 being one of the best deep throwers in the game. Another plus is the Texans dont have to deal with Hopkins diva act after his guaranteed $$$$ ran out.

If healthy the sum of all of the parts gained makes the Texans a better team without Hopkins. IMHO

 

[steelbtexan]

We know O'Brien addressed the "Baby Mamas" in the "Aaron Hernandez" meeting. Was there more than that? Does it matter? Short of rape or murder, what could Hop have done that forced him out of the organization?

CnD alluded to this but didn't want to talk about why, for obvious reasons. You can either believe there was a reason the trade happened or not. I choose to think there was a sound reason for the trade. BTW, BOB has done well trading off guys like Clowney (We've found out what Clowney's true value to NFL GM's is) and adding guys that were needed during or right before the season started. Tunsil/Hyde/Conley etc... I dont care for BOB the coach much but I do like BOB the GM.

Fans typically overvalue their players more than NFL GM's do and Texans fans are no exception to this rule.

 

[Lucky]

CnD alluded to this but didn't want to talk about why, for obvious reasons.

I would never consider asking him to betray a confidence. That's not my point. My point is that barring something horrific we would have heard about, there's nothing that in of itself would have made a trade necessary.

 

[TxnsJuggernaut1]

I would never consider asking him to betray a confidence. That's not my point. My point is that barring something horrific we would have heard about, there's nothing that in of itself would have made a trade necessary.

Could it be ego driven? BO'b may not have been the main reason DH was drafted and he decided he wanted his own stamp on the team. Just a hunch.

 

[Lucky]

Could it be ego driven? BO'b may not have been the main reason DH was drafted and he decided he wanted his own stamp on the team. Just a hunch.

I mean Hopkins was on the team throughout O'Brien's tenure. Never heard a peep of a problem. Then O'Brien becomes GM. 99 reasons to dump one of the top 5 players in franchise history.

As I've said before, only superstar, Lombardi trophy HCs should get the opportunity to be GM.

 

[Mr teX]

This is getting beyond ridiculous. Here are the excuses for making the Hopkins trade.

Hop wanted more $$$ (OK, I believe that)
Hop wasn't that good (Really?)
Hop was not running routes correctly (Watson found him)
Watson relied on Hopkins too much (Who is to blame for the mediocre receivers around him?)
Hop doesn't practice (But plays with a busted shoulder and busted ribs in playoff games)
Hop and O'Brien were at odds after a meeting where O'Brien compared him to Aaron Hernandez (This one I believe)
Hop was the Texans Antonio Brown (I'm at a loss on this one)
Hop did something so vile it cannot be spoken (Double murder? Ran a pit bull fight ring?)

If there was something sinister regarding Hopkins, one of the top NFL reporters would have unearthed it by now. Not McClain. Someone that's good at their job. Why can't it be this simple?

Hopkins lost respect for O'Brien. Everyone knew it. Hopkins was traded.

He lost respect for BoB...lol. Why B/c BoB told him that they weren't giving him any more money any time soon? B/c BoB told him that
there are other guys they were going to prioritize paying over giving him more? Y'all underestimate Nuk's ego & put too much absolute creedence in that SI article where he speaks of what happened at "the meeting". Furthermore, there's at least 1 person who posts here who has some credible insights into what the deal was with the Nuk trade, & that ain't you so i'll take his word over yours.

And if we're going to channel Occam's razor then the simplest explanation is that it was purely a money thing. Evidence? History at the WR position where at perhaps no other position are star players moved in/at or near their primes like they are..& for pretty much the same reason, money or something having to do with money. Hell look at the recent history. Amari Cooper, Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham, Jarvis Landry, TO... that's just off the top of my head. Top 10 WR's in their primes are traded damn near every year....The fact that the cards are actively negotiating with Nuk.....after he came out in the article and said it wasn't about money.

Lastly, For most of those "top" NFL reporters sans Tom Pellisero, the news of the trade came out of left field & just b/c noone said anything doesn't mean there wasn't anything there. Those dudes have sources & they don't want to burn those guys & lose access.