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Hopkins traded to Cardinals?

Mr teX said:
Catch up. It is known they were shopping Nuk for almost a whole year going back to last year. So unless you think that they only shopped him to a few teams in all that time..... or that Roseman is an idiot and out of touch with the market for then you can’t say anything either.
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Yeah uhhh, I'm gonna need a link for that.


Thanks.
 
Mr teX said:
Nuk is great..but Cobb has typically done more with less. IOW’s he doesn’t need a **** ton of targets to rack up his numbers Unlike Nuk. He only had 83 targets with Dallas last year and damn near had a 1000 yard season.
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Less? Wtf? You mean like playing for a HOF qb earlier in his career and a top offense in 2019?

Damn NEAR a thousand yards?

Are you saying Cobb is as good as hopkins?
 
powda said:
Less? Wtf? You mean like playing for a HOF qb earlier in his career and a top offense in 2019?

Damn NEAR a thousand yards?

Are you saying Cobb is as good as hopkins?
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Lol no. I’m saying Cobb is very much capable of giving you a 1000 yard season, but he typically has not gotten over 100 targets in a season....but he doesn’t necessarily require it. Last year he didn’t even get 90 targets and was only 170 yds from a 1000 yard season. Nuk’s basically averages 150+ targets. Hard NOT to put up numbers when you’re seeing the ball that much. Cobb is good enough in that I have no doubt that if he saw that many targets he could put up great numbers too.

But he’s not a guy whose ego requires him to see that many targets and he won’t get “ disinterested” if he’s not the main target for DW4.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol no. I’m saying Cobb is very much capable of giving you a 1000 yard season, but he typically has not gotten over 100 targets in a season....but he doesn’t necessarily require it. Last year he didn’t even get 90 targets and was only 170 yds from a 1000 yard season. Nuk’s basically averages 150+ targets. Hard NOT to put up numbers when you’re seeing the ball that much. Cobb is good enough in that I have no doubt that if he saw that many targets he could put up great numbers too.

But he’s not a guy whose ego requires him to see that many targets and he won’t get “ disinterested” if he’s not the main target for DW4.
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Let's skip the foreplay and narrow it down then...

#1. You think the hopkins trade was good? Yes or no?

#2. You think Cobb will perform as well as Hopkins in this offense? Yes or no?
 
Texansballer74 said:
He’s making it seems as if Hop was becoming a distraction or something. Watch his apologist use this bit of info the wrong way.


When will people realize he’s the problem.

1.Had a fight with one of his quarterbacks.
2. Couldn’t work with Rick Smith.

3. Had verbal confrontation with a fan. Had to be restrained by the guy he just got rid of.

4. Fired his hand picked GM because I guess he didn’t handle the Clowney trade right.

5. Not knowing all the facts. But him and Clowney didn’t get along together either.

This is a trend gents. Take notice
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1. Wasn't his QB, Os sucked and had an attitude because BOB benched him for Savage. Think about how bad Os was because he got benched for Savage.

2. Couldn't get along with RS because RS sucked at his job and left him with a suckass ol and another QB BOB didn't want. But BOB made the best of a bad situation and the offense was good despite a terrible OL and a rookie QB. It's like RS was trying to get BOB fired. This backfired on RS.

3. True

4. Firing Gaine was a Cal call and had nothing to do with BOB. That was a H.R. issue.

5. Clowney wasn't worth what he thought he was worth. I thought BOB wrong at the time. But after seeing Clowney not being able to get near what he wants in FA it appears BOB got what he could when he could and was spot on in his assessment of Clowney and his 3 sacks injury prone value.
 
Texansballer74 said:
No one and no one said any darn thing about Nuk being on the trading block a year ago. Not after the crazy numbers he put up.

Some people are too gullible. I would love to see this link from last year too. Not that crap that came out after the trade.
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I agree. It's all hear say but he did offer a link. Who knows how credible it is but I'll give him credit for providing it.
 
powda said:
Let's skip the foreplay and narrow it down then...

#1. You think the hopkins trade was good? Yes or no?

#2. You think Cobb will perform as well as Hopkins in this offense? Yes or no?
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1. No, but I dont have inside info why the trade was made.

2. If he stays healthy Cobb will be the best slot WR this team has ever had. He's not being brought in to replace Nuk.

3. Any WR that gets 150 targets should put up a 1,000 yd season.
 
steelbtexan said:
1. No, but I dont have inside info why the trade was made.

2. If he stays healthy Cobb will be the best slot WR this team has ever had. He's not being brought in to replace Nuk.
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#1 neither does he.

#2. In the slot or outside, Cobb is not better then hopkins. Cobb MIGHT be the best slot we've ever had. That isn't saying much. No one in their right mind should argue the performance on the field. Cobb was good 2-3 years ago. Hopkins has been dominant.
 
powda said:
Let's skip the foreplay and narrow it down then...

#1. You think the hopkins trade was good? Yes or no?

#2. You think Cobb will perform as well as Hopkins in this offense? Yes or no?
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Short answer, No I don’t think the trade on it’s face from an optics or value perspective was good..would’ve liked to have wrenched out another player or pick to hedge against the possibility that Johnson is in fact “done”......which I don’t think he is. But I’m thinking that this is more optics than anything and I’m not looking at it from the same perspective ya’ll are. It’s not about Cobb replacing Hopkins 1 to 1. It’s about Cobb and whomever else is brought in to make up his lost production While getting overall better...which I firmly believe is what’s going on.

Cobb factors huge into how we have possibly improved in the slot. Johnson factors huge into how we’ve improved our ability to pass to our RB’s without tipping our hand. With Nuk gone, you can expect Kenny Stills to be targeted more and have an opportunity to increase his productivity. Likewise if we draft a young WR, that guy could factor huge.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Yes that was after the trade. That’s when a few reporters claimed we’ve been shopping him.
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If either of you guys read the article, that was a direct quote from an NFL executive. IOW’s this is a guy with inside knowledge...not a reporter reporting on someone’s speculation about it..for all we know he’s an executive that was contacted at some point within the last year about Nuk.

Lol doesn’t matter if the article was before or after the trade. It only came out after b/c the rumor was that the Texans were “quietly” shopping him.

In addition to this Tom Pellisero was rumored to have known about this possible trade for months..& that only came out after as well.
 
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Mr teX said:
Short answer, No I don’t think the trade on it’s face from an optics or value perspective was good..would’ve liked to have wrenched out another player or pick to hedge against the possibility that Johnson is in fact “done”......which I don’t think he is. But I’m thinking that this is more optics than anything and I’m not looking at it from the same perspective ya’ll are. It’s not about Cobb replacing Hopkins 1 to 1. It’s about Cobb and whomever else is brought in to make up his lost production While getting overall better...which I firmly believe is what’s going on.

Cobb factors huge into how we have possibly improved in the slot. Johnson factors huge into how we’ve improved our ability to pass to our RB’s without tipping our hand. With Nuk gone, you can expect Kenny Stills to be targeted more and have an opportunity to increase his productivity. Likewise if we draft a young WR, that guy could factor huge.
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You dont like the deal and you think with help from other positions cobb can help fill the void of a lost hopkins.

Maybe not all the production but most of it...

That sounds like common ground to me and agreeable. Let me know if I'm misinterpreting your stance on the matter.
 
Mr teX said:
If either of you guys read the article, that was a direct quote from an NFL executive. IOW’s this is a guy with inside knowledge...not a reporter reporting on someone’s speculation about it..for all we know he’s an executive that was contacted at some point within the last year about Nuk.
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My main point was when it was delivered. Why wasn’t it posted a year ago? I know a person who has a good source on the team itself. Not one time has he said Nuk is being shopped.
 
Texansballer74 said:
My main point was when it was delivered. Why wasn’t it posted a year ago? I know a person who has a good source on the team itself.
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I never heard word of it till a week before the trade

But he offered a source which was way more then I thought I would see.

Regardless, I don't like the direction this team is headed. We're in for a bad season assuming one is played at all.
 
powda said:
You dont like the deal and you think with help from other positions cobb can help fill the void of a lost hopkins.

Maybe not all the production but most of it...

That sounds like common ground to me and agreeable. Let me know if I'm misinterpreting your stance on the matter.
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Exactly.
 
Texansballer74 said:
My main point was when it was delivered. Why wasn’t it posted a year ago? I know a person who has a good source on the team itself. Not one time has he said Nuk is being shopped.
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Unless he’s close to BoB, he wouldn’t know. I think had Nuk shown displeasure about his contract situation at any point during the season last year, it would’ve leaked out from someone in the league. But that didn’t happen.
 
Mr teX said:
If either of you guys read the article, that was a direct quote from an NFL executive. IOW’s this is a guy with inside knowledge...not a reporter reporting on someone’s speculation about it..for all we know he’s an executive that was contacted at some point within the last year about Nuk.

Lol doesn’t matter if the article was before or after the trade. It only came out after b/c the rumor was that the Texans were “quietly” shopping him.

In addition to this Tom Pellisero was rumored to have known about this possible trade for months..& that only came out after as well.
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Bro they couldn’t get any production whenever Fuller went down. What makes anyone think they will get close to or equal production now that our BEST RECEIVER is gone. They will have to hopefully draft another monster. The big kicker is Fullers health. Now that Hop is gone, Fuller gets hurt. Man that offense will look like crap.
 
Mr teX said:
Unless he’s close to BoB, he wouldn’t know. I think had Nuk shown displeasure about his contract situation at any point during the season last year, it would’ve leaked out from someone in the league. But that didn’t happen.
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I think it’s deeper than that. Hop probably asked for the extra cash after this supposedly beef. Especially seeing Thomas contract extension to the roof. Why not
 
Mr teX said:
Exactly.
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I remember the year andre Johnson was let go. People here freaked out over the lost production. I posted then I wasn't worried about the # 1 wr as I was sure hopkins would fill it just fine.

He did.

I was worried about the #2 wr hopkins abandoned and it was an issue.

In this scenario cobb takes on 75% of hopkins production. The RBS get more catches. The te's get more catches.

I want to see that kinda offense where the ball is spread out. I'm not sure we will.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Bro they couldn’t get any production whenever Fuller went down. What makes anyone think they will get close to or equal production now that our BEST RECEIVER is gone. They will have to hopefully draft another monster. The big kicker is Fullers health. Now that Hop is gone, Fuller gets hurt. Man that offense will look like crap.
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The offense is going to be different. No one WR is going to get 150 targets. If healthy I bet Cobb gets 80-90 catches. How many catches did the slot not named Nuk get last yr. That only leaves 20-30 to make up Nuk's production. Ideally that would come from Warring but I also think a good bit of the production will come from Duke/DJ.
 
powda said:
I remember the year andre Johnson was let go. People here freaked out over the lost production. I posted then I wasn't worried about the # 1 wr as I was sure hopkins would fill it just fine.

He did.

I was worried about the #2 wr hopkins abandoned and it was an issue.

In this scenario cobb takes on 75% of hopkins production. The RBS get more catches. The te's get more catches.

I want to see that kinda offense where the ball is spread out. I'm not sure we will.
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There is reason to think we won’t; most notably the history of BoB offenses. But then there’s hope that we may finally see that b/c:

- BoB has given up play calling duties
- for the 1st time since DW4 has been under center, he is projected to have the same starting 5 linemen in front of him ...all experienced and he shouldn’t be running for his life.
- He May possibly have the 2 most important safety blankets for qbs: a TE, which we know he has in Fells/Akins and maybe we can get something from Warring.....and a back that’s just as much of a legitimate threat in the run game as he is in the passing game in David Johnson.

Many wondered why we didn’t get Duke more involved in the pass game last year and I think it was b/c we couldn’t really bluff defenses into believing that we would run the ball with him. They knew when they saw him come into the game, it was close to 70 - 80% of the time we were passing. The addition of David Johnson to the backfield sort of blurs that line considerably and might be good for Duke.
 
steelbtexan said:
The offense is going to be different. No one WR is going to get 150 targets. If healthy I bet Cobb gets 80-90 catches. How many catches did the slot not named Nuk get last yr. That only leaves 20-30 to make up Nuk's production. Ideally that would come from Warring but I also think a good bit of the production will come from Duke/DJ.
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The theme that’s being set up is that none of the skill guys are guys that will become disgruntled if they’re not getting enough touches or targets.

Of all the running backs, TE’s and WR’s currently on the team, Cobb’s the only guy who has seen over 100 targets in more than 1 season.

All of these guys are used to playing and not seeing the ball. TEAM guys.
 
steelbtexan said:
The offense is going to be different. No one WR is going to get 150 targets. If healthy I bet Cobb gets 80-90 catches. How many catches did the slot not named Nuk get last yr. That only leaves 20-30 to make up Nuk's production. Ideally that would come from Warring but I also think a good bit of the production will come from Duke/DJ.
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Yes the Eagles made that work. Unfortunately we don’t know that for certain. If Will Fuller stays healthy, his number of targets will increase tremendously. That’s why he’s the new number one.

I really don’t know why anyone would think differently.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I think it’s deeper than that. Hop probably asked for the extra cash after this supposedly beef. Especially seeing Thomas contract extension to the roof. Why not
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He’s had the unfortunate view of watching 3 of his colleagues get big money deals and extensions while having better career credentials than all of them.....so far anyway. Thomas and Jones have been all pro twice and their best seasons are better than Nuk’s best.
 
Mr teX said:
The theme that’s being set up is that none of the skill guys are guys that will become disgruntled if they’re not getting enough touches or targets.

Of all the running backs, TE’s and WR’s currently on the team, Cobb’s the only guy who has seen over 100 targets in more than 1 season.

All of these guys are used to playing and not seeing the ball. TEAM guys.
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That is not a theme, it’s actually a Texans reality. We are six years in and all of sudden we’re about to incorporate both the TEs and RBs more in the passing game. Now we’re about to go away from the basic concept of every NFL team in today’s league. Fuller will take over that number 1 spot. Watson just like every other QB will have a go to guy, who might I add they trust more.
 
Texansballer74 said:
That is not a theme, it’s actually a Texans reality. We are six years in and all of sudden we’re about to incorporate both the TEs and RBs more in the passing game. Now we’re about to go away from the basic concept of every NFL team in today’s league. Fuller will take over that number 1 spot. Watson just like every other QB will have a go to guy, who might I add they trust more.
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when u don’t have the pieces to do it, you don’t have the pieces and for the 1st 2-3 seasons under BoB we didn’t have them. Foster in 2014 for like 1/2 a year.....but after that....

the moves that have been made lately show that BoB got tired of trying to wait and acquire these pieces. He went out and got all of them via FA come hell or high water.

I take the opposite view. I think in BoBs mind he felt like he had to go out and acquire additional weapons so as to not be dependent on WFV health. We got Fells last year and that helped a lot. Those other ”additional” weapons? A qb’s best friend. A dual threat RB and veteran slot WR.

so yeah WFV will be the number 1, but he won’t be depended on like that.
 
Mr teX said:
when u don’t have the pieces to do it, you don’t have the pieces and for the 1st 2-3 seasons under BoB we didn’t have them. Foster in 2014 for like 1/2 a year.....but after that....

the moves that have been made lately show that BoB got tired of trying to wait and acquire these pieces. He went out and got all of them via FA come hell or high water.

I take the opposite view. I think in BoBs mind he felt like he had to go out and acquire additional weapons so as to not be dependent on WFV health. We got Fells last year and that helped a lot. Those other ”additional” weapons? A qb’s best friend. A dual threat RB and veteran slot WR.

so yeah WFV will be the number 1, but he won’t be depended on like that.
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You're acting like we didn't have the resources. He imo got rid of Hop mainly because of a heated disagreement about how he was going to be used. It's was only when the offense got in a blind is when they would go deep to Hopkins. You're talking about more weapons, who? It was only a swap for Hop and Cobb. They could've gotten rid of Fuller who can't stay healthy. Both Carter and Keke could've been replaced by Cobb.


This was personal not business. That's why we only got a freaking 2nd round pick.

Another hasty decisions. That's why I don't like it.
 
Texansballer74 said:
You're acting like we didn't have the resources. He imo got rid of Hop mainly because of a heated disagreement about how he was going to be used. It's was only when the offense got in a blind is when they would go deep to Hopkins. You're talking about more weapons, who? It was only a swap for Hop and Cobb. They could've gotten rid of Fuller who can't stay healthy. Both Carter and Keke could've been replaced by Cobb.


This was personal not business. That's why we only got a freaking 2nd round pick.

Another hasty decisions. That's why I don't like it.
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He was on the market last season. This wasn't a hasty decision. This was a decision about $$$$ and how to best alot that $$$$. Feel free to disagree with that decision, I know I did, but it's Cal's/BOB's decision who gets paid and who doesn't.
 
banned1976 said:
Isn’t it reassuring to hear O’Brien admit that the reason Hopkins was traded was because “he asked for a raise”? I don’t know about y’all but I’ve asked for a raise before and was told “no, sorry, can’t do it right now.” I was never told to pack my ****. I came back to work. Does anyone think that Hopkins wouldn’t have shown up to play on game day?
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.....I'll say it again, his contract wasn't guaranteed. Guaranteeing those final 3 seasons might've been enough of a good gesture to have a happy Hopkins in the locker room...but OB will never know now that he valued David Johnson more than Hopkins. Really hope Johnson's production and forced defensive game planning work out for OB b/c he's going to be scrutinized every game of the season.
 
Mr teX said:
Lol no. I’m saying Cobb is very much capable of giving you a 1000 yard season, but he typically has not gotten over 100 targets in a season....but he doesn’t necessarily require it. Last year he didn’t even get 90 targets and was only 170 yds from a 1000 yard season. Nuk’s basically averages 150+ targets. Hard NOT to put up numbers when you’re seeing the ball that much. Cobb is good enough in that I have no doubt that if he saw that many targets he could put up great numbers too.

But he’s not a guy whose ego requires him to see that many targets and he won’t get “ disinterested” if he’s not the main target for DW4.
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I think the problem OB has created......his trades have resulted in a very crowded, SWR and receiving back room. Problem.....he doesn't target those positions very much in his offense. Maybe he's instructed Kelly to find a way to incorporate these positions in the offense this season to take the pressure off the wide-outs.
 
Max said:
If so, it doesn't exactly bode well for how the star players feel about BOB.
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I'm pretty sure this is what steelbtexan (bless his heart) is trying to say about the culture BO'b is trying to establish here. There ain't no "star" players. It's about the team. Three years left on a contract? I mean, he (Hopkins) actually started talking about it when there was 4 years left.
I understand where Hop is coming from. The guarantees have run out & the next play might be his last. But I also understand where BO'b the GM is coming from.
That's not to say I agree, support, condone, or endorse what he did. I still think it's asinine.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
.....I'll say it again, his contract wasn't guaranteed. Guaranteeing those final 3 seasons might've been enough of a good gesture to have a happy Hopkins in the locker room...but OB will never know now that he valued David Johnson more than Hopkins. Really hope Johnson's production and forced defensive game planning work out for OB b/c he's going to be scrutinized every game of the season.
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Tell me again why teams dont fully guarantee contracts?
 
powda said:
We took pennies on the dollar because O'Brien's ego got in the way of common sense.
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I agree with everything you just said except that part after "because,"
We don't know why BO'b did what he did & most likely never will.
If he does not address RB in this draft, then I'll say he definitely values DJ a lot more than everyone else in the entire world.
His track record of selecting RBs is only slightly worse than his selecting QBs.... Chicken & Shrimps, remember him?
 
Mr teX said:
Unless he’s close to BoB, he wouldn’t know.
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As an aside, "everyone" is saying teams didn't want to trade a 1st & have to pay Hopkins. It shouldn't have been "known" that Hopkins wanted more money with three years left.

BO'b could have been, "Man, I just need to recoup some draft capital, surely you know my situation."

But I hate BO'b so I think he was like, "The dude is asking for more money & I'm not about that. Please help me move this dog, who is a 3 year all-pro, but he was drafted by that other guy for another guy."
 
Mr teX said:
Nuk is great..but Cobb has typically done more with less. IOW’s he doesn’t need a **** ton of targets to rack up his numbers Unlike Nuk. He only had 83 targets with Dallas last year and damn near had a 1000 yard season.
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Can you make anymore of a reach? More with less? Cobb played with Aaron freaking Rodgers for eight seasons and Dak Prescott for one. Who has Hopkins had at QB? Let's see. There's Mallett, Hoyer, Schaub, Keenum, Yates, Fitzpatrick, Savage, Weeden, Osweiler, and Watson. Do we REALLY want to talk about which receiver has done "more with less"?
 
Mr teX said:
Lol no. I’m saying Cobb is very much capable of giving you a 1000 yard season, but he typically has not gotten over 100 targets in a season....but he doesn’t necessarily require it. Last year he didn’t even get 90 targets and was only 170 yds from a 1000 yard season. Nuk’s basically averages 150+ targets. Hard NOT to put up numbers when you’re seeing the ball that much. Cobb is good enough in that I have no doubt that if he saw that many targets he could put up great numbers too.

But he’s not a guy whose ego requires him to see that many targets and he won’t get “ disinterested” if he’s not the main target for DW4.
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He doesn't get over 100 targets because he's not a #1 wide receiver. Yet we are paying him almost $10 million per season...
 
texan279 said:
Can you make anymore of a reach? More with less? Cobb played with Aaron freaking Rodgers for eight seasons and Dak Prescott for one. Who has Hopkins had at QB? Let's see. There's Mallett, Hoyer, Schaub, Keenum, Yates, Fitzpatrick, Savage, Weeden, Osweiler, and Watson. Do we REALLY want to talk about which receiver has done "more with less"?
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and with all those guys he got 150+ targets. as I said this trade was never about replacing Cobb with Nuk 1 to 1 like some fans are taking it. It was about replacing Nuk’s production and Cobb and Johnson go a long way towards that. I’m fully expecting a young WR will be taken in the draft to help polish that replacement production off. whether u agree with that or not.....well that’s your opinion. I’ll leave u with Kenny Stills direct quoted tweet on the situation:

“We’re all going to miss HOP. But it’s gunna be crucial for us as a team and fan base to move forward. Negativity won’t get us anywhere.”

This guy gets it...yet even he, a player espousing team over player is being attacked on twitter by neurotic, emotional ass fans...
 
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