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Hopkins traded to Cardinals?

thunderkyss said:
As an aside, "everyone" is saying teams didn't want to trade a 1st & have to pay Hopkins. It shouldn't have been "known" that Hopkins wanted more money with three years left.

BO'b could have been, "Man, I just need to recoup some draft capital, surely you know my situation."

But I hate BO'b so I think he was like, "The dude is asking for more money & I'm not about that. Please help me move this dog, who is a 3 year all-pro, but he was drafted by that other guy for another guy."
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when You’re putting a 3X time all pro on the market, teams will want to know why and giving them the “ah shucks, I just need more draft capital” excuse alone wasn’t going to work..especially since Nuk didn't have a rep around the league of being a headache like say Antonio Brown did. Aside from that, Nuk’s contract is easily looked up on the internet. BoB didn’t need to tell them anything. Most of the guys in the FO could’ve made a reasonable educated guess without BoB/Easterby saying anything. Could easily see a FO thinking Something similar to this:

“ yeah we’ve looked up his contract, he’s ridiculously underpaid as compared to guys in his league.... Beckham, Jones and Thomas. Also, none of the 3 years he has left on his deal are guaranteed..it’s just a mirage. We’d have to resign him to an extension and probably given him a significant bump up if we brought him over...They probably don’t want to do it b/c of the Tunsil and Watson contracts.....we need to weigh the compensation we give them over whether we want to give him that significant raise...and/or the potential headache we could have on our hands if we decide to just have him play out the remaining years on his deal. The draft is pretty deep at WR too..”
 
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Mr teX said:
There is reason to think we won’t; most notably the history of BoB offenses. But then there’s hope that we may finally see that b/c:

- BoB has given up play calling duties
- for the 1st time since DW4 has been under center, he is projected to have the same starting 5 linemen in front of him ...all experienced and he shouldn’t be running for his life.
- He May possibly have the 2 most important safety blankets for qbs: a TE, which we know he has in Fells/Akins and maybe we can get something from Warring.....and a back that’s just as much of a legitimate threat in the run game as he is in the passing game in David Johnson.

Many wondered why we didn’t get Duke more involved in the pass game last year and I think it was b/c we couldn’t really bluff defenses into believing that we would run the ball with him. They knew when they saw him come into the game, it was close to 70 - 80% of the time we were passing. The addition of David Johnson to the backfield sort of blurs that line considerably and might be good for Duke.
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I'm over the trade and even if something goes wrong with Johnson's physical, Nuk isn't coming back and the compensation would probably change to an additional pick or the 2nd will go to a 1st (in my dreams). I am going to pay attention to see if or when Nuk gets more money from the Cardinals. That will go a long way to validate the claim that the trade was strictly based on $$$. For the Cardinals, it seems they have their Fitzgerald replacement in Nuk and could easily pay him Fitz's slotted money starting in 2021 when its presumed that he will no longer be around. That alone would have been my angle for leverage towards the Cardinals. But my concern is the principles of the offense. How are these new pieces going to perform in a offense that has been said takes almost 3 years to truly understand? Tim "play calling" Kelly is not instilling a new offense and so much has been noted on how the WRs and the QB have to read the same thing to understand the best option on routes. Yes it will be different but that doesn't give me confidence that it will be better. I hope this pandemic shat subsides soon because this is the one off-season the Texans need the max time to put in work.
 
Mr teX said:
and with all those guys he got 150+ targets. as I said this trade was never about replacing Cobb with Nuk 1 to 1 like some fans are taking it. It was about replacing Nuk’s production and Cobb and Johnson go a long way towards that. I’m fully expecting a young WR will be taken in the draft to help polish that replacement production off. whether u agree with that or not.....well that’s your opinion. I’ll leave u with Kenny Stills direct quoted tweet on the situation:

“We’re all going to miss HOP. But it’s gunna be crucial for us as a team and fan base to move forward. Negativity won’t get us anywhere.”

This guy gets it...yet even he, a player espousing team over player is being attacked on twitter by neurotic, emotional ass fans...
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I’ll be extremely impressed if Fuller, Stills and Cobb play 17 games collectively.
 
Mr teX said:
lol, 100 targets aren’t just reserved for only #1 WR’s dude...that’s quite possibly the dumbest take I’ve seen in a long time.
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You're telling me that normally, second and third receivers get MORE targets? Did you not just say upthread Hopkins produces more than Cobb because of more targets? Which is it dude? You can't keep flip flopping to keep in line with your argument.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm pretty sure this is what steelbtexan (bless his heart) is trying to say about the culture BO'b is trying to establish here. There ain't no "star" players. It's about the team. Three years left on a contract? I mean, he (Hopkins) actually started talking about it when there was 4 years left.
I understand where Hop is coming from. The guarantees have run out & the next play might be his last. But I also understand where BO'b the GM is coming from.
That's not to say I agree, support, condone, or endorse what he did. I still think it's asinine.
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Gotta break em down before you build em up Hoosiers style? We're 6 years in on learning the 4 pass offense. But state champs is next if these guys would just learn the damn lesson.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The Marines can accomplish this in 13 weeks.....OB hasn’t done it in roughly 225 +- weeks. What’s the holdup?
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I'm all for team first but BOB's got to learn the difference between DeAndre Hopkins and Antonio Brown attitudes and learn to work with the DHops and Clowneys out there cuz this ain't the marines or 1950's hoosiers and it's going to blow up in his face if he can't figure that out.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
.....I'll say it again, his contract wasn't guaranteed. Guaranteeing those final 3 seasons might've been enough of a good gesture to have a happy Hopkins in the locker room...but OB will never know now that he valued David Johnson more than Hopkins. Really hope Johnson's production and forced defensive game planning work out for OB b/c he's going to be scrutinized every game of the season.
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What does any of that have to do with the comment you are replying to? I was giving my impression of the comments made directly out of OB’s mouth (about Hopkins wanting a raise.).

Anyway, you don’t have to repeat yourself on my account b/c neither you, BoB or anyone else is going to change the way I feel about the Hopkins trade.
 
It wasn't long ago that we were considered one of the most top heavy teams in the league with the balance between stars and jags. BOB the builder GM solved that problem in a hurry. TEAM JAG.
 
steelbtexan said:
He was on the market last season. This wasn't a hasty decision. This was a decision about $$$$ and how to best alot that $$$$. Feel free to disagree with that decision, I know I did, but it's Cal's/BOB's decision who gets paid and who doesn't.
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Again post a link from last year stating he was on the market last season
 
DBCooper said:
It doesn’t matter though, any GM worth his salt doesn’t make that deal with a player under contract for 3 more years.

Time is on the GM’s side.

Doesn’t matter how long you shop the player.
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True that but my thing is people are really trying To hang their hates on some news they just received. If Nuk was on the trading block trust me it would’ve been linked.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
I'm over the trade and even if something goes wrong with Johnson's physical, Nuk isn't coming back and the compensation would probably change to an additional pick or the 2nd will go to a 1st (in my dreams). I am going to pay attention to see if or when Nuk gets more money from the Cardinals. That will go a long way to validate the claim that the trade was strictly based on $$$. For the Cardinals, it seems they have their Fitzgerald replacement in Nuk and could easily pay him Fitz's slotted money starting in 2021 when its presumed that he will no longer be around. That alone would have been my angle for leverage towards the Cardinals. But my concern is the principles of the offense. How are these new pieces going to perform in a offense that has been said takes almost 3 years to truly understand? Tim "play calling" Kelly is not instilling a new offense and so much has been noted on how the WRs and the QB have to read the same thing to understand the best option on routes. Yes it will be different but that doesn't give me confidence that it will be better. I hope this pandemic shat subsides soon because this is the one off-season the Texans need the max time to put in work.
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well said...but I would counter with the fact that all but 1 of the new projected pieces are vets...if we are to assume that they use 1 of the 2nds on a WR. Hyde when he was brought in at the 11th hour didn’t seem to have a problem picking up the offense. Stills didn’t either. So I see no reason to believe Johnson will have any issues. And just part of being a good slot WR like Cobb has been throughout his career is b/c they often do see things the same as the qb. In addition to this Cobb's a former qb himself having played it at Kentucky so I’m thinking he will be fine as well.

the rest of the weapons (Duke, Fells, Akins, Fuller, Carter) have all been here in the system at a minimum 1 year already.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Then you should probably refrain from asking/requiring it from others - because now you do KNOW how you just refuse to do it. Stop asking others to do something you won't
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Who have I asked in the last 6 mo's?

I will ask somebody where they got there info from but dont require a link.

As far as this instance. goes I told him it was in the Athletic article. He can believe me or not. I really dont care.
 
Texansballer74 said:
True that but my thing is people are really trying To hang their hates on some news they just received. If Nuk was on the trading block trust me it would’ve been linked.
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ypu simply can’t make this assertion as if it’s fact bro. Just b/c you and your inside source didn’t hear **** about it and you just heard it doesn’t mean that it was a hasty decision. You saw the article quoting the NFL executive. You’ve heard from SEVERAL sources now that he had been shopped for a while.
At this point you’re just choosing to believe what you want because it fits with your narrative about BoB.
 
texan279 said:
You're telling me that normally, second and third receivers get MORE targets? Did you not just say upthread Hopkins produces more than Cobb because of more targets? Which is it dude? You can't keep flip flopping to keep in line with your argument.
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lol..no. I said that it’s hard not to produce numbers the way Nuk has receiving 150+ targets every year...which is about what Nuk averaged here.

I didn’t say that 2nd and 3rd WR’s recieve MORE targets than apparent #1’s. but let’s not act like 2nd and 3rd WR’s can’t approach or come close to 100 or go well over that in a season either...it’s stupid to assume that can’t happen in today’s NFL.

Cobb alone in Dallas last year received 83 for them.....and he was the 3rd option behind Cooper and Gallup who received 100+ each.

Sammy Watkins and Travis Kelce both received more targets than Tyreke Hill did last year..that’s probably b/c Hill missed a few games, nevertheless, thats your 1, 2 and 3 WR options for them that were all hovering around 100 targets for the season. Kelce got 136 as the freakin TE.

Diggs and Thielen? 2018 each had 130 plus. The only reason it didn’t happen in 2019 is b/c Thielen missed a boat load of games.
 
Mr teX said:
lol..no. I said that it’s hard not to produce numbers the way Nuk has receiving 150+ targets every year...which is about what Nuk averaged here.

I didn’t say that 2nd and 3rd WR’s recieve MORE targets than apparent #1’s. but let’s not act like 2nd and 3rd WR’s can’t approach or come close to 100 or go well over that in a season either...it’s stupid to assume that can’t happen in today’s NFL.

Cobb alone in Dallas last year received 83 for them.....and he was the 3rd option behind Cooper and Gallup who received 100+ each.

Sammy Watkins and Travis Kelce both received more targets than Tyreke Hill did last year..that’s probably b/c Hill missed a few games, nevertheless, thats your 1, 2 and 3 WR options for them that were all hovering around 100 targets for the season. Kelce got 136 as the freakin TE.

Diggs and Thielen? 2018 each had 130 plus. The only reason it didn’t happen in 2019 is b/c Thielen missed a boat load of games.
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Very easy to understand.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
I'm over the trade and even if something goes wrong with Johnson's physical, Nuk isn't coming back and the compensation would probably change to an additional pick or the 2nd will go to a 1st (in my dreams). I am going to pay attention to see if or when Nuk gets more money from the Cardinals. That will go a long way to validate the claim that the trade was strictly based on $$$. For the Cardinals, it seems they have their Fitzgerald replacement in Nuk and could easily pay him Fitz's slotted money starting in 2021 when its presumed that he will no longer be around. That alone would have been my angle for leverage towards the Cardinals. But my concern is the principles of the offense. How are these new pieces going to perform in a offense that has been said takes almost 3 years to truly understand? Tim "play calling" Kelly is not instilling a new offense and so much has been noted on how the WRs and the QB have to read the same thing to understand the best option on routes. Yes it will be different but that doesn't give me confidence that it will be better. I hope this pandemic shat subsides soon because this is the one off-season the Texans need the max time to put in work.
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If either player fails his physical, the trade will be off.
 
steelbtexan said:
Tell me again why teams dont fully guarantee contracts?
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Simple version? Salary Cap. Teams don't want to get caught in cap hell for a guy who isn't on the field anymore due to injury, etc. With limited roster spots and the $$ already spent on the position, it makes it near impossible to replace the production with a similar player in FA.

Until / Unless the NFL allows a luxury tax system like MLB and NBA (which would allow some short-term pain to get through it), we're stuck in "fear of cap hit" hell for guys no longer playing.
 
texan279 said:
This just popped up on my Twitter feed...ughhhhhhhhh


https://twitter.com/x/status/1246606227917778945
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notice where Nuk was on that play? Sideline. When OBrien forced Nuk into a slot role he completely erased the most brilliant function of Hops game - the sideline acrobatics. One on One's are always in favor of Hop. Putting him into a box to get shredded and fight 4 other bodies for the ball was the most stupid thing I've seen a coach do - ever.
 
Uncle Rico said:
notice where Nuk was on that play? Sideline. When OBrien forced Nuk into a slot role he completely erased the most brilliant function of Hops game - the sideline acrobatics. One on One's are always in favor of Hop. Putting him into a box to get shredded and fight 4 other bodies for the ball was the most stupid thing I've seen a coach do - ever.
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He was changing the culture lol. I mean you and I both know dude is the master of sabotage. He did that crap on purpose in the attempt to validate his reasoning for getting rid of him.
 
Texansballer74 said:
He was changing the culture lol. I mean you and I both know dude is the master of sabotage. He did that crap on purpose in the attempt to validate his reasoning for getting rid of him.
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That's an interesting comment. There were a couple of games this year where I thought, Hopkins is not going to last running some of theses routes. The guy is not built like Andre Johnson.
 
Texansballer74 said:
He was changing the culture lol. I mean you and I both know dude is the master of sabotage. He did that crap on purpose in the attempt to validate his reasoning for getting rid of him.
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He played Nuk in the slot some because there wasn't another viable guy to play the slot. Stills was better outside so Nuk played quite a bit in the slot. This was what was best for the TEAM to get the most production out of the WR corps. Even with this Nuk got 150 targets so I dont know what the issue is.
 
Earl34 said:
That's an interesting comment. There were a couple of games this year where I thought, Hopkins is not going to last running some of theses routes. The guy is not built like Andre Johnson.
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Indeed, I thought the same. Not only that, he started dropping more passes because he knew the big hit was coming. I never seen Hop have that many bad games before.
 
disaacks3 said:
Simple version? Salary Cap. Teams don't want to get caught in cap hell for a guy who isn't on the field anymore due to injury, etc. With limited roster spots and the $$ already spent on the position, it makes it near impossible to replace the production with a similar player in FA.

Until / Unless the NFL allows a luxury tax system like MLB and NBA (which would allow some short-term pain to get through it), we're stuck in "fear of cap hit" hell for guys no longer playing.
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I'm very aware of this.
 
steelbtexan said:
Who have I asked in the last 6 mo's?

I will ask somebody where they got there info from but dont require a link.

As far as this instance. goes I told him it was in the Athletic article. He can believe me or not. I really dont care.
Click to expand...

Post where you asked someone to post and/or send you a link in the last 6 months (ish), even if it was a friendly request, would you post a link if asked nicely or would they get a "not doing that crap" response?

Obviously this is a trivial thing, and not as though you do it every day, but still - it just isn't a hard thing to do, and if you won't do it - no one should do it in response to you either.

#135
#11,773
#168
#43
#341
#9284 - slightly outside of 6 months (Sept '19)
 
Mr teX said:
and with all those guys he got 150+ targets. as I said this trade was never about replacing Cobb with Nuk 1 to 1 like some fans are taking it. It was about replacing Nuk’s production and Cobb and Johnson go a long way towards that. I’m fully expecting a young WR will be taken in the draft to help polish that replacement production off. whether u agree with that or not.....well that’s your opinion. I’ll leave u with Kenny Stills direct quoted tweet on the situation:

“We’re all going to miss HOP. But it’s gunna be crucial for us as a team and fan base to move forward. Negativity won’t get us anywhere.”

This guy gets it...yet even he, a player espousing team over player is being attacked on twitter by neurotic, emotional ass fans...
Click to expand...

Changing the culture is happening.
 
Mr teX said:
when You’re putting a 3X time all pro on the market, teams will want to know why and giving them the “ah shucks, I just need more draft capital” excuse alone wasn’t going to work..especially since Nuk didn't have a rep around the league of being a headache like say Antonio Brown did. Aside from that, Nuk’s contract is easily looked up on the internet. BoB didn’t need to tell them anything. Most of the guys in the FO could’ve made a reasonable educated guess without BoB/Easterby saying anything. Could easily see a FO thinking Something similar to this:

“ yeah we’ve looked up his contract, he’s ridiculously underpaid as compared to guys in his league.... Beckham, Jones and Thomas. Also, none of the 3 years he has left on his deal are guaranteed..it’s just a mirage. We’d have to resign him to an extension and probably given him a significant bump up if we brought him over...They probably don’t want to do it b/c of the Tunsil and Watson contracts.....we need to weigh the compensation we give them over whether we want to give him that significant raise...and/or the potential headache we could have on our hands if we decide to just have him play out the remaining years on his deal. The draft is pretty deep at WR too..”
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Very simple to understand why Nuk's value was so low.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Post where you asked someone to post and/or send you a link in the last 6 months (ish), even if it was a friendly request, would you post a link if asked nicely or would they get a "not doing that crap" response?

Obviously this is a trivial thing, and not as though you do it every day, but still - it just isn't a hard thing to do, and if you won't do it - no one should do it in response to you either.

#135
#11,773
#168
#43
#341
#9284 - slightly outside of 6 months (Sept '19)
Click to expand...

I'm fine with this.

BTW, I was asking for those for info so we could have a discussion not to further a debate. atleast in all of those posts but 1. God people sure will put in alot of time to be right. My stance on DW4 sure has me up in alot of posters heads, to the point that they are willing to wste alot of time to try to prove me wrong. LMAO

2 totally different things.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Changing the culture is happening.
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Changing the culture doesn't mean wins or is the magic formula you are trying to sell. Here is Adam Gase getting kudos for changing the culture with the Dolphins. Gase got fired after going 23-25.

My point? The NFL is filled with fired coaches and their culture changes. Just because you have a team full of Rudys doesn't mean you're winning anything.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ins-owner-adam-gase-changing-the-team-culture

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/27/17168374/miami-dolphins-adam-gase-culture-change-locker-room

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...ge-miami-dolphins-culture?device=featurephone
 
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FuzzyLogic said:
Post where you asked someone to post and/or send you a link in the last 6 months (ish), even if it was a friendly request, would you post a link if asked nicely or would they get a "not doing that crap" response?

Obviously this is a trivial thing, and not as though you do it every day, but still - it just isn't a hard thing to do, and if you won't do it - no one should do it in response to you either.

#135
#11,773
#168
#43
#341
#9284 - slightly outside of 6 months (Sept '19)
Click to expand...

ooof .. getting called out with receipts IN HAND is a tough scene!! " IM OKAY WITH THAT" lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo .... ooooooooooooooooooooo. whooooo buddy! give me a second. ha. thats rich man. thats really good stuff. wow.
 
Earl34 said:
Changing the culture doesn't mean wins or is the magic formula you are trying to sell. Here is Adam Gase getting kudos for changing the culture with the Dolphins. Gase got fired after going 23-25.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ins-owner-adam-gase-changing-the-team-culture

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/27/17168374/miami-dolphins-adam-gase-culture-change-locker-room

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...ge-miami-dolphins-culture?device=featurephone
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True, but look at the Dolphins now. They finally cleaned the deck and can finally move forward with a boatload of cap space and draft picks. This forced them to move out of mediocrity. Which is likely the same fate BOB will have.
 
Mr teX said:
Catch up. It is known they were shopping Nuk for almost a whole year going back to last year.
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How does that coincide with your narrative of dumping Hopkins because he was going downhill? He was 26 at the time.

You're working too hard to defend Billy. Like the little Dutch Boy trying to plug the dike.

myths-legends-boy_with_finger_in_the_dyke-tech_support-technical_supports-technical_support-helplines-mlyn2038_low.jpg
 
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