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Hopkins traded to Cardinals?
- Thread starter PapaL
- Start date
Texazan
Our HOF 34
WHY even bring up Hernandez? Why even THINK about uttering the words to your #1, likely HOF receiver? We now know that it appears that it was taken out of context but why even bring it up? As a leader you have to think before you speak. No matter how gifted an orator you think you are. Know your audience.
Since BOB is trying to follow the Belichick model of "selfless team players" I'll use him. We NEVER hear about Belichick saying things like that to his players. He never reacts on emotion, never. Belichick would NEVER freak out on a fan like BOB did. It totally compromises your ability to lead and Belichick KNOWS that.
Really good players have run in droves and take less to play for the Patriots, yes they no longer have TB so we'll see but they love winning the Patriot way, that ain't happening here. BOB is not fostering the same atmoshere and players will now avoid us, we've already heard about it taking place.
EDIT: I truly dont care if certain players don't come here, wont break the org, just another hurdle BOB has created for himself
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maverick512000
Hall of Fame
If the XFL has showed us anything it’s that players and coaches fight and get emotional on the sidelines all the time. I would love to know how many fights Brady and BB have had over the last 20 years or Payton and Brees. I bet if all those got shown just about every player and coach that cares about football at all could be considered bad tempered and emotional.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
He projects all of this. He can only be taken as what he projects. I've never spoke wth him. Not getting political but as an example who here has spoke with our current president?
Eagles, Seahawks, Rams, Niners. All had top 3 rushing offense the last time they went to the Super Bowl. Are we expecting the Texans to have a top 3 rushing offense in 2020? If so, then I guess Hopkins was a luxury. If not, he was a necessity.
Number19
Hall of Fame
By leaving personal animosity and emotion out of evaluating the team.
The Texans won 11 games in 2018. They won 10 last year, possibly because they rested starters the last game after securing the division title.
They did this with Bill O'Brian as HC.
I see no reason why outcome will be any different this year beyond your normal seasonal improvement of teams and/or injury. In other words, O'Brian will have no impact that wasn't already accounted for.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
It was a stupid thing to say but OB is hardly the first manager to say stupid things in a meeting. We never hear about this kind of stuff with BB partly because he wins a lot and no one ever say anything bad about a winning coach as long as it’s not something illegal. Also yes BB is very cold and calculating but frankly it’s because he doesn’t seem to actually care about his players beyond can you add another ring to my fingers. I mean look at how they’ve treated Brady of all people
Most people can’t shut off their emotions like that and many coaches do in fact care about their players. It’s why some guys get to stay on a team longer than they really should. OB has a 5 year special needs son, believe me there is no way he can be as cold and calculating as BB, it’s just not in him.
Strictly a guess but I’d say OB brought it up not to compare the two but because he was remembering the last guy and how badly that ended. Still a stupid thing to say but it’s wasn’t malicious or implying Hop would end up that way.
Also yeah even BB has lost his cool before.
Patriots coach Bill Belichick shouts expletive at Vikings' Adam Thielen
You don’t often see NFL head coaches get into a shouting match with opposing players, but New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick and Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Adam Thielen had a tense exchange Sunday. Belichick had just thrown a challenge flag after the Vikings appeared to come up short...
www.nbcsports.com
Finally no most players don’t like winning “ the patriot way” in fact the patriot way was one of the big reasons Gronk said he was retiring. Yes really good players do want to play for the Patriots because they figure it’s the fastest way to a ring and therefore a huge contract with their next team. Look at Trent Brown, his talent and stats in no way justified his contract but he had that ring on his finger so the price automatically doubled. It’s why it’s almost impossible for most teams to repeat the next year.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
I hope they win 11, 12 games. I really don't want them to lose. Personally I dont hate BOB, I just dont think he's the HC or GM to take this train to the top of the mountain. We're just delaying the inevitable.....
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Why not? we were top 10 last year with Carlos Hyde, a guy thought to be a bum by most here & elsewhere around the league.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I actually did, it was when he was doing stuff with WWE. It was only for a handshake and a hi how are you but my impression was as positive as anybody I meet for that short a time. At least he didn’t act like I could go to hell or was beneath him.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
It was a stupid thing to say but OB is hardly the first manager to say stupid things in a meeting. We never hear about this kind of stuff with BB partly because he wins a lot and no one ever say anything bad about a winning coach as long as it’s not something illegal. Also yes BB is very cold and calculating but frankly it’s because he doesn’t seem to actually care about his players beyond can you add another ring to my fingers. I mean look at how they’ve treated Brady of all people.
Most people can’t shut off their emotions like that and many coaches do in fact care about their players. It’s why some guys get to stay on a team longer than they really should. OB has a 5 year special needs son, believe me there is no way he can be as cold and calculating as BB, it’s just not in him.
Also yeah even BB has lost his cool before.
Patriots coach Bill Belichick shouts expletive at Vikings' Adam Thielen
You don’t often see NFL head coaches get into a shouting match with opposing players, but New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick and Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Adam Thielen had a tense exchange Sunday. Belichick had just thrown a challenge flag after the Vikings appeared to come up short...
Finally no most players don’t like winning “ the patriot way” in fact the patriot way was one of the big reasons Gronk said he was retiring. Yes really good players do want to play for the Patriots because they figure it’s the fastest way to a ring and therefore a huge contract with their next team. Look at Trent Brown, his talent and stats in no way justified his contract but he had that ring on his finger so the price automatically doubled. It’s why it’s almost impossible for most teams to repeat the next year.
Ok maybe NEVER was a stretch as I know BB has lost his cool but its few and far between. This is a common theme with BOB. Plus, you win multi SBs you get that leash.
Had Belichick been doing this for 20 years and had no SBs, yea it's a diffrent story: "The guy is a jerk and the system doesnt work" sound familiar?
Funny, on one had we say the players feelings don't matter yet when players leave NE (usually with a ring or two) they talk about being unhappy like we're supposed to feel sorry for them.
So you're saying the Texans will have a top 3 rushing offense? O'Brien better find someone better than Hyde in the draft. I guess that's possible.
BTW, doesn't the fact that O'Brien didn't re-sign Hyde indicate that the GM doesn't think much of Carlos?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Long way from top 10 to “you can win it all with your running game” if they went out and got Zeke or McCarthy then I could see it maybe. As it stands we better hope Kelly and Watson can figure out how to scheme guys open and create a better short pass game because otherwise we don’t have a good offensive identity.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Damn you! Ok well you know what I meant.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Right....So what he "projects" in all those other forums of media like those Texans game analysis shows & interviews before games with all the media & with John Harris and Vandemeer where he is calm & explaining things.......that accounts for nothing right? Only what you see in that 3 hour window on Sunday at 12 pm & that 20 minutes after that emotionally charged event in a post game press conference counts right?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Oh don’t get me wrong I’m not excusing OB at all. He should have very carefully thought out what he was going to say and then run it by HR a few dozen times.
As far as the players go I never feel sorry for them. They know exactly what they are getting into going to NE and they do it anyway because they want the ring. Well thats the price you pay. Plus I find it hard to feel sorry for anyone making that kind of money to play a game.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
https://youtu.be/dsI6x-Z1mDQ
This fan had a couple words for him. Same two words we’d all like to say.
This is the last HC job 0 B’s gonna have.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Intent of the post wasn't to say we could win it all that way, it was to show that these teams had great success without a true #1 stud WR's in place...which is true. How they did it is up for discussion. Yes those teams had strong run games..but their passing games weren't too shabby either despite what i asserted.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yep, which makes him & probably alot of others on this very forum & elsewhere who got all amped seeing that just as emotionally unstable as they try to portray him in the moment......that is if we're using the same rationale.
Funny thing is too is that Buddy Ryan is revered around these parts for going after someone on his own damn staff..but ya'll love that kind of emotion!
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
That's a reasonable take...of course this is the case for most HC's in the NFL though.
You're just upset that your BFF is getting dragged in the mud for countless idiotic decisions. He's a terribly average coach, and seems to be a below average GM with his 2 years of work to show for it. You are championing mediocrity.
Funny part is if we'd gotten a decent haul for Hopkins, I'd be okay with it. However, trading away an elite player for a broken player and taking on said broken players full contract is idiotic....while not getting any decent draft value out of it other than a 2nd round pick.....fleeced. If we'd not given up so much to trade Clowney away ($7MM included), it wouldn't be so bad. If we had signed Tunsil to a long term contract when trading for him, wouldn't have been so bad.
It's almost humorous how you're only response to this is calling anyone who disagrees with you "emotional". I said "almost humorous" if it weren't so sad and pathetic.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
For the most part you are correct but they also had great strengths elsewhere. Usually that strength was a solid defense which we are a long ways from. See the issue is we were shifting from a defense focused team to a offense focused team and if you are going to be offense focused then yeah you need that stud weapon. Mahomes has Hill, Big Ben had AB and Bell for the longest time, even Brady was really rocking and rolling when he had Gronk.
I’m not saying it can’t be done but with all the other holes in the team and Watson’s and Tunsil’s contract coming up we will all be limited in free agency. My biggest concern now is what direction is the team headed and what is our focus?
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Kind of where I am at, I would like for Texans ownership to find the "sweet spot" -
I don't want to be the Browns with a new GM, Coach every year/every other year
I don't want to be the Bengals and Marvin Lewis a guy - does OK, but is probably never going to do better than'OK'
Bob has run his course - I don't believe he will ever deliver better than OK and it is time / past time to move on - seems in the modern game if you can't implode a team or have deep playoff success by year 5 then you aren't going to.
Add to that the questionable stories, the yelling at fans, and he just gets to be too much to deal with for me as a fan - at this point, I'm ready to see something different - could be screwing myself and the next guy is even worse - but hey I would have asked for different and got it so can't complain about that.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
FOH with this nonsense...you're just upset that he's still here coaching the team that you know your ass is going to be still sitting & watching next year regardless. There's alot of humor going around these days, like the grand proclamations that you and a few other make how you "won't support them" b/c they didn't make a move or get something y'all wanted...Morey's been doing that for you guys for years, how's that been working out for the Rockets? Still 0 championships. The **** is lame honestly.
If it truly bothered Y'ALL that much you would stand behind your words & do just that. Instead, y'all run to john lopez & landry locker and cry about it...Y'all still show up at 3 am to tailgate...Y'all still show up at academy & buy that Texans gear....Y'all still pay those season ticket invoices.
Stand behind your words or STFU.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
There's multiple ways of being a successful team. It's true that you don't NEED a top-3 receiver, but that just simply means you need to excel in other aspects. Those teams you mentioned had good defenses, while we do NOT.
I don't care about trading away Nuk. I DO care about getting proper value though.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Melvin Gordon to the Broncos for 2 years, 16mil. Cool, ANOTHER running back better than David Johnson w/ a cheaper price tag. SMH
Well done.
Occasionally at the NFL level we see this. Everyone else you mentioned may well have had blow ups with their coaches, but they did it in private and kept it to themselves. We've all seen the clip of OB losing it with TB12.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
Which is why 0B’s act would have been perfect for a Bud Adams team.
I doubt 31 other NFL owners would tolerate his brand of bull$h!7.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
This is largely me as well. I could care less about BoB and who it is that's the HC of the Texans. Like, i really don't care. All i want...All i ever want is for my team to win....period.
I don't know BoB & i don't pretend to know what goes through his mind when he does certain things. All i can go by is what happens on the field & what he and the players say happens.
Aside from that there's just really no point in getting riled up about something so out of your control.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Probably..but aside from a few other franchises who have HC's that have won, those other franchises are indeed tolerating other less successful brands of BS & have done it 2-3 times or more over. The Cardinals are on their what 3rd HC since BoB got here?
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
New Jersey anyone?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol, really? he's also a guy who:
basically got supplanted by another RB the incoming HC wound up coveting more (Ekler) instead of paying him big money.
has missed significant time with injuries over the course of his career..specifically injuries around his knee area...
too, his numbers look no better than Johnson's over the last few years..........& he wasn't phased out b/c of a HC change like Johnson was... so "better"...... probably is not accurate.
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Wolf
100% Texan
I'll respectfully pass. Texan fan first.
Love the players and even if JJ left. I'd still be beyotching about the Texans while side eyeing info about ex Texan players in the papper
But I'd still rock the watt jerseys my brother in law got me.. if i bought them . I'd honestly go with texan Jersey,favorite number and my last name on it.
Love the players and even if JJ left. I'd still be beyotching about the Texans while side eyeing info about ex Texan players in the papper
But I'd still rock the watt jerseys my brother in law got me.. if i bought them . I'd honestly go with texan Jersey,favorite number and my last name on it.
I don't want to ruffle anyone's pom poms or get in the middle of the O'Brien pep rally, but this "successful winning organization" propaganda is amusing when you realize they are not even the best team in their little division (in spite of so-called division "championships"), and the other three teams in the AFCS have been to conference championship games since O'Brien has been the HC.
You judge a tree by it's fruit and a HC by his results. O'Brien's results are very similar to Marty Schottenheimer's career, who was marginally good enough to justify hiring/keeping as a HC, but never good enough to get a team to achieve any sort of greatness (although, to his credit, he did get KC to a couple of conference championship games, something O'Brien hasn't even sniffed at so far).
If you're happy with so-called division "championships" and "winning records" - aka paper tiger results - while getting embarrassed in the post-season and consistently bounced by the 2nd round, by all means, wave those pom poms harder and be a proud little Texans fan.
Some of us, though, do not share this rather myopic optimism and see things from a much different perspective. His arrogance, temperament, belligerence, and now obviously lust for power without accountability will ultimately prove to be either genius, or as I suspect, a man full of hubris that is in positions way above his head.
Unfortunately, though, even if O'Brien shoots himself in the foot, the chances for D. Cal McNair (anyone know what the D. is for?) finding a great GM and HC by himself is truly the epitome of a blind squirrel luckily finding a nut.
Wolf
100% Texan
It will be interesting what talent we will have left in a couple of years. Watts contract is up in 2021 (i think). Bill better hit big on the draft and hope Watson and tunsil . Get locked long term. Or back to the bottom of division we sink
dream_team
Hall of Fame
That's fair. It's a subjective question, so not really worth debating which is better.
Me personally, would rather have Melvin Gordon at 8-mil per.
Texansballer74
The Marine
That's because ill-advised decision are made strictly out of emotions. Last season Bill Obrien tried his best to screw over Hopkins. That way he could justify this asinine trade. Look and read Rico post #878.
He imo sabotaged RS too. This dude is a slick crook and the McNair's are allowing that crap to happen.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
3 years ago Jax was the team to beat for years to come............. supposedly anyway. & why would anyone doubt that? They had this ferocious defense with all this great mix of young and old talent, this rookie RB that was supposed to be a monster and they had this top pick at QB that everyone thought was finally coming into his own. That team was basically dismantled right after that year & they haven't been relevant since they made their run & are currently trying to get out of cap hell.
2 years ago Indy was the so called "best team" in the "little division" & why should anyone doubt that? They had this afterthought of a HC that turns out is this great offensive innovator calling plays for Luck, "the next great QB set to rule the league!!!" They had this great young o-line too..2 all-pro rookies...Ballard's a genius! Well, like us the following year, they were dismantled by KC in the next round & of course you know what happened the next year with Luck retiring.
So now we have Tennessee. Great young firey no nonsense HC in Vrabel...NFL's leading rusher last year in Henry is back..Got Tanny..is he coming into his own like Bortles? AJ Brown was a revelation at WR. They too were dismantled by KC much in the same manner as we were.....
Sure they all went 1 round deeper in 1 year... but none of them have been able to stay around for more than 1 year at a time & they all met the same fate we did in the playoffs to the same 2 teams that we did KC & NE. When either of them can duplicate the success they had in that 1 year, i will crown them as the team to beat in the division & won't chalk it up to just sheer luck.
Texansballer74
The Marine
It's not just on the shoulders of Watson. Please stop painting that picture. The offensive line was terrible last season. Continuity not fixing that crap.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
This is true but we’ve also seen Brady lose it with his teammates to. In fact we saw it last time they played the Texans.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Accepting your basic premise, for discussion, the organization has undergone major upheaval in management, to get to the kind of organization Cal seems to be buying into. Yes, Bob has had 5 years, but he's only in year one with him in complete control. Now, I know this will not be accepted by those who want him out, but it does shed a different light on the situation. I'm thinking OB has at least 3 years to see what he can accomplish, unless we just totally tank. And if we stay competitive in the division, Cal may opt for the stability rather playing management merry go round.
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Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
Gotta disagree on Schottenheimer. 0B’s been trying to run Marty’s “run up the middle” offense his whole career and done a piss poor job of it.
Yep, the TE position is more important than the wr position. IMHO.
If Hop is smart, and I bet he is he'll stay out of Glendale. Leave theon the west side and stay in the east valley or Scottsdale.
Quoted for truth
It's always been this way.
What I find off is, if DW4 and Hopkins are such good friends then why did Hopkins try to sabotage DW4's chances of winning a SB on his way out the door?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Are you quoting the guy off of 610 radio that recently said the same thing?
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I agree. I said it before, we'll win 12 games in 2020. Don't know how. But we'll do it.
Now. So far I haven't given any credence to the "players want out" or "FAs warned about O'Brien" rumors, but it could get ugly if those are true
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Wow, the back-n-forth on this issue is amazing. I've gone through more than a few scenario's as to how trading Hopkins could be beneficial to the Texans. What I never projected under any scenario, the Texans would take a broken down glue factory horse and his 11.2M salary in 2020 at FULL face value, a 2020 RD2-040 and a 2021 RD4......for Hopkins and then manage to get gouged for an additional 2020 RD4-131 pick. Never in a million years would any of us projected this outcome.
Now someone wanted to protect OB in this trade by saying his hands were tied and he had to settle for the best available deal since every NFL GM was aware of his falling out with Hopkins over his contract and/or personality conflicts. I'm just going to call bullshite on this theory b/c who would've got this information out to other NFL GM's? Hopkins? No way, it would destroy his value and leave him playing on his existing contract. OB? No, why would he flop over the barrel with his pants down, inviting other NFL GM's to have their way with him?
Based on OB's current track record for making trades....this would simply lead me to believe he got screwed plain and simple. Man knows nothing in regards to making trades or re-signing his UFA's. This trait isn't what most owners would look forward to in their GM's but who said Cal and Mama McNair were normal owners.
This deal is done and the damage is what it is......Texans shouldn't have lost their 2020 RD4-131, which is much needed in this extremely deep draft and only received the Cardinals 2021 RD4 in return. Man this just stinks to the high heavens of total stupidity.
Now someone wanted to protect OB in this trade by saying his hands were tied and he had to settle for the best available deal since every NFL GM was aware of his falling out with Hopkins over his contract and/or personality conflicts. I'm just going to call bullshite on this theory b/c who would've got this information out to other NFL GM's? Hopkins? No way, it would destroy his value and leave him playing on his existing contract. OB? No, why would he flop over the barrel with his pants down, inviting other NFL GM's to have their way with him?
Based on OB's current track record for making trades....this would simply lead me to believe he got screwed plain and simple. Man knows nothing in regards to making trades or re-signing his UFA's. This trait isn't what most owners would look forward to in their GM's but who said Cal and Mama McNair were normal owners.
This deal is done and the damage is what it is......Texans shouldn't have lost their 2020 RD4-131, which is much needed in this extremely deep draft and only received the Cardinals 2021 RD4 in return. Man this just stinks to the high heavens of total stupidity.
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