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DW4 Traded to Cleveland
- Thread starter Texansphan
- Start date
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Probably is good people. Doesn’t mean he has a clue as to how to run an NFL organization.
You think Watson is thinking about this or his lawyers are? Because I’m pretty sure Watson knows jack about potential jury pools.
I think Hardin and crew haven’t settled for the same reason big companies don’t settle when faced off against smaller foes. Because they can wait them out. The longer they can drag this out, the better for Watson.
No one has even seen what criminal charges will or won’t be leveled at Watson. I’m still dubious that prosecutors think they can win a jury trial and overcome reasonable doubt. Watson’s main concerns are still 1) the trade and 2) the future suspension.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Gaine - fired, after 11-5 season. Easterby in.
Chris Olen, Senior VP of Football Administration and very respected salary capologist - fired. Easterby replaced him.
King Bill crowned GM/HC after one of the most embarrassing performances ever in NFL playoff history.
All of these things totally screwed the Texans for years to come. All under the direction of Cal "Tommy Boy" McNair.
I don't know Cal personally. But, the family has made negative highlights before.
Because I know football McNair, I expect when they do make a decision on Watson, it will be a bad one for the future of the team.
So before Easterby, did you think this team was on the track to multiple Super Bowls?
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I'll take F- No for $400, Alex
Good people can still be stupid.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Party of one.......I'm sure Cal is good people but he's diddly squat and mentally challenged when it comes to managing the operations and the X and Os of a professional football team. However I hear he's pretty good at Madden 21.
Before Easterby. . .April 2019. . .we had a star QB. . .star no. 1 WR. . .so those two alone make the Texans have 1000x more potential than now. . .
And what happened after April 2019? Cal started making dumb, and I mean REALLY DUMB, decisions. After firing Gaine, and instead of getting an actual experienced GM, Cal promotes O'Brien, who had done nothing to earn the position (and could be argued should have been fired after 51-7). That move alone is one of the stupidest decisions in recent NFL history, and will most likely set this franchise back for many, many years.
Cal can be the nicest guy in the world, but that's irrelevant. My criticism has nothing to do with the man as a person, and everything to do with his utterly inept decisions, lack of any sign of being a leader of men, and clearly unable to project any sort of vision, so he relies on other people that fill his head with platitudes and rhetoric while they have their own agendas. He may be a really nice guy, but he's a massive wimp as an owner.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
It’s amazingly unbelievable how far this franchise has fallen from the first quarter of Texans vs Chiefs on Jan 12th 2020. We were 3 quarters of football away from going to the AFC Championship game.
A year and ten months! And with all the drama too!
It is like a fictional story written for the big screen.
That’s why I can’t take this team serious until a couple years in of Caserio’s management. Anything can happen. And it will.
And like you (I think it was you) said in another post:
Keep you expectations low. No - lower. Nope - still not low enough. Keep going. You are getting there. A little lower.
There. That’s where I am. And I was right at the beginning of the season.
All I wanted them to do is win one game to meet my expectations.
So it's Easterby's fault that Derrick and friend were doing deviant and probably illegal things?
Cal hired Easterby to find out what was going on in hisorg after lawsuits were brought against FO personnel. Easterby did his job. Dont believe what the media and a bunch of dumbazz athletes are selling you.
The Texans org needed to be cleaned up from the top down. The FO/players etc... were treating the workplace and life in general as a playground and that's not conducive to winning. When Easterby came in and tore down the jungle gym is when all of the bad press started. Players/former players and FO started leaking bad things to the press.
I could be totally wrong on this but I dont trust the press. What's funny is the reaction at the time from the fanbase and then later as dirty little secrets started coming out how the press and many in the fanbase refused to admit that they were wrong. Many still wont admit they were wrong about this today. Myself I'm finding great entertainment watching human nature take its course.
This is not how it works and this is not how it works in Harris County.
You don’t file charges based upon if you have slam evidence. Even if you have what you think is slam dunk many times you are still investigating sometimes to get corroborating witnesses, testimony, etc. Also Someone can say they were harassed and felt threatened and that’s a he said she said thing, THAT itself would be a misdemeanor charge class B Harrassment that I’ve seen HPD file and the DA’s office prosecute. So you do not always have to have slam dunk evidence to bring charges. Because it still requires investigation even after charges are filed.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
This is Harris County where we give bail out to murderers so they can be free to do their thing.
So he's only a character coach in disguise. He's actually Sherlock Jack, Mystery Detective.
The Hound of Kirbyvilles
Kyle: Sherlock Jack, who murdered my football franchise?
Sherlock Jack: Elementary, my dear gamer boy. It was Brian Gaine in the war room with a laptop.
Kyle: What should I do?
Sherlock Jack: Dismiss Gaine immediately. Then promote the most incompetent, obnoxious, underhanded employee you have as the new GM.
Kyle: Bill O'Brien?
Sherlock Jack: Precisely, my squirrel cheeked wonder!
I'm going to need someone to photoshop Jack in a houndstooth coat, deerstalker hat, and a magnifying glass.
Dejaview
All Pro
His problem is that he was never a HS QB.
But did he stay at a HIE?
Texian
Hall of Fame
No, but the person to whom you respond eats their lunch in a middle school cafeteria.
Is there any positive to losing your franchise QB ?
They could literally get 8 picks and still lose the trade.
Food fight
Depends on if you think you can win a championship with said QB.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Do you think the team is better off now than it was then?
Back then I felt there was at least hope. I don't feel like there is any right now. Admittedly, though, I wasn't one that believed the Texans were a marketing team pretending to be a football team. I was naive. That was my fault.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Sometimes there is. Bledsoe and Favre come to mind. It takes a little luck, a solid front office, and great scouting staff. And ownership that makes winning a priority. I believed at one time Bob McNair really wanted to bring a championship to Houston. I don't believe winning is a priority anymore. That's me. Unlike you, I don't have any minority owners whispering in my ear. Even if I did, at this point in time if they were telling me Cal's dedicated to turning the team around, I wouldn't believe them. The optics tell me a different story. The McNair's want to cultivate a team full of good guys. They want to look like they're doing the right thing. It's the reason Hopkins was sent out of town for next to nothing. Momma Watson wanted to protect her precious little boy from negative influences and Cal's mom was eager to oblige.
As always, I have to add I'm not in the heads of the McNair's, I don't have the ability to read minds. I'm only relaying how I personally view this organization based upon what I think I know to be true. People have told me things about the mechanisms behind Hopkins being traded and I believe them. Am I off base?
Texian
Hall of Fame
When a couple of knuckleheads only remaining argument is whether I did or did not play football the game is over. I won. Resorting to juvenile insults as a debate tactic is reminiscent of those days spent in a middle school cafeteria. This type of behavior is expected as middle school mentalities are also welcomed to post here at Texas Talk.
Texian
Hall of Fame
A more likely scenario than not. My guess is instead of maximizing this coming windfall over a 3 to 4 year period or longer. The File Clerk has shown a propensity to spend as fast as he can, much like a teenage girl at the mall with her Christmas cash.
I lost a very close friend 3 weeks ago. I've vowed to try to laugh alot from now on. If that requires a little Jr High humor then so be it. Life is short.
Yet he's done absolutely nothing that has truly damaged this franchise while he's been here.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Sorry for your loss. In this case I don't think they meant it as humor, more of an insult.
Texian
Hall of Fame
The File Clerk? One could argue that creating more than $15MM in dead cap money in 2022 with even much more to come, reducing the 2022 cap by another $12MM through 2021 restructuring, trading away future draft picks only to cut traded players weeks or months later, using 10 draft picks to draft 5 players and only having 27 players under contract to start the 2022 season (10 less than the avg team) puts the Texans at a distinct disadvantage and compromises the rebuild. Just a different perspective of looking at the definition of the word damage. Which by this definition is substantial.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
2022 is irrelevant. It’s strange that you aren’t able to see that.
This team is awful, hopefully it will be a little better next year. It won’t be $27 million away from winning a Super Bowl.
The decks should be clear come 2023, by which time we should be building towards winning football.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I am not a Casserio lover or hater, but you act so smart and like there is only your way to do things. Could it be that in 2022 Casserio plans to have the picks from the pervert, trade down and move around for more picks, and get a lot of "his" guys therefore needing a few more slots than most teams? He won't need salary cap money as this strategy would be we suck again in 2022 while the young uns grow up. We would have a very young roster with a few vets he found this year he wants for leadership. Also, you state in your FUBARs releasing JJ in your timeline, but later say that was what was needed for salary cap relief. I agree it was time, and seems like that was the owner anyway. It would also help your case if you had some balance, like has he done anything ok, then I could read your posts without knowing what you were going to say? He cut Nick Martin, Kelemente, Mancz, Ejifor, Gillaspia, Coutee, Warring, Coulter etc. Holdovers that were BOB guys that could not play (longer list available). He seemed to find on the cheap some guys that could be on a future 53, KGH, Vincent Taylor, Kirksey, King, Britt .. Problem is they start here.
Mercilus, Cunningham had bad BOB contracts that were hard to deal the guys, but he did restructure Mercilus in a way to get time off the deal. His trades for Finley and Cannon look stupid, but the draft capital was pretty low. I think the flyer on Miller looked like it had potential until he blew his shoulder.
Why Burkhead and Lindsay are still toting the rock, I do not know. Those were weird signings. I admit his blueprint for the rebuild is not clear and obvious, but being a former exec, I know you dont share strategy and I guess I believe any senior leader has to have a plan and method. This roster was a dumpster fire, with no 1st/2nd round picks and a bad salary cap situation with some awful contracts, then the DW4 did DW4, so I give him a bit of time to see how this develops. Fans have to have hope, i am holding the thread while it unwinds
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
12 hours ago SPORTS ILLUSTRATED
GamePlan: NFL Trade Deadline Notes, Plus the Latest on Deshaun Watson
It's looking like it’ll be a relatively tame few days, but here are some names that could move. Plus, this week's best games, story lines to follow, a look at cap space around the league and more.
Albert Breer
Very clearly, at several junctures, parties interested in facilitating a Deshaun Watson trade have tried to make it happen. There was the push before the draft, one at the start of training camp, again at the beginning of the season and, now, finally, in the days leading up to Tuesday’s trade deadline.
To this point, every effort on the part of Watson’s camp, and on the part of the Texans, to get the embattled 26-year-old quarterback moved has failed.
Why? Well, for all the reports of teams’ calling and deals’ looming that have fizzled into a big puddle of nothing, there are really three people on the ground for this one, two with different motivations than the third. One is Watson himself. Another is Texans owner Cal McNair. Those two, estranged since McNair failed to follow through on a promise to involve Watson throughout the team’s coach/GM search, are on the same page—both want a separation.
The third party, Houston GM Nick Caserio, is the one charged with pulling off the deal. And his role in all of this is more important than most people have considered.
He’s also the reason I think there’s a good chance there won’t be a deal for Watson next week.
Just put yourself in Caserio’s shoes. He was hired in January, with no first- or second-round pick in his first draft as a GM, a messy cap situation and an aging roster. When he took the job, its allure was Watson, a young franchise quarterback under contract for another five years. But first with Watson’s trade request, and then with 23 lawsuits filed alleging sexual misconduct, it steadily became clear that Caserio wouldn’t have him either.
Less than 10 months later, his football team is 1–6. To this point, it’s been led by a third-round rookie named Davis Mills, who, while talented, hasn’t asserted himself as the long-term answer. The players, for their part, have shown effort and character. And, still, there’s no question this is a ground-up operation for the (still) new guy in charge.
All of which is why he can’t take a discount for Watson or allow himself to be held at gunpoint to make a trade. Watson is far and away the Texans’ most valuable asset, and the chip that Caserio can use to supercharge the rebuild. If he takes 50 cents on the dollar? Or gives another team six-ways-from-Sunday protections on a trade? Then, Caserio’s leaving himself with no quarterback or the capital to build on any sort of expedited timetable.
And here’s another key question: What does it benefit Caserio to trade Watson now?
By trading him now, you’re making the team you’re trading him to better, necessarily devaluing the picks you’re trading for. Conversely, if you wait until February, you know where any 2022 pick you’re getting will be. Also, there’d likely be more suitors to drive the price up, and maybe more clarity as to Watson’s standing both legally and with the league.
THE REST OF THE STORY
GamePlan: NFL Trade Deadline Notes, Plus the Latest on Deshaun Watson
It's looking like it’ll be a relatively tame few days, but here are some names that could move. Plus, this week's best games, story lines to follow, a look at cap space around the league and more.
Albert Breer
Very clearly, at several junctures, parties interested in facilitating a Deshaun Watson trade have tried to make it happen. There was the push before the draft, one at the start of training camp, again at the beginning of the season and, now, finally, in the days leading up to Tuesday’s trade deadline.
To this point, every effort on the part of Watson’s camp, and on the part of the Texans, to get the embattled 26-year-old quarterback moved has failed.
Why? Well, for all the reports of teams’ calling and deals’ looming that have fizzled into a big puddle of nothing, there are really three people on the ground for this one, two with different motivations than the third. One is Watson himself. Another is Texans owner Cal McNair. Those two, estranged since McNair failed to follow through on a promise to involve Watson throughout the team’s coach/GM search, are on the same page—both want a separation.
The third party, Houston GM Nick Caserio, is the one charged with pulling off the deal. And his role in all of this is more important than most people have considered.
He’s also the reason I think there’s a good chance there won’t be a deal for Watson next week.
Just put yourself in Caserio’s shoes. He was hired in January, with no first- or second-round pick in his first draft as a GM, a messy cap situation and an aging roster. When he took the job, its allure was Watson, a young franchise quarterback under contract for another five years. But first with Watson’s trade request, and then with 23 lawsuits filed alleging sexual misconduct, it steadily became clear that Caserio wouldn’t have him either.
Less than 10 months later, his football team is 1–6. To this point, it’s been led by a third-round rookie named Davis Mills, who, while talented, hasn’t asserted himself as the long-term answer. The players, for their part, have shown effort and character. And, still, there’s no question this is a ground-up operation for the (still) new guy in charge.
All of which is why he can’t take a discount for Watson or allow himself to be held at gunpoint to make a trade. Watson is far and away the Texans’ most valuable asset, and the chip that Caserio can use to supercharge the rebuild. If he takes 50 cents on the dollar? Or gives another team six-ways-from-Sunday protections on a trade? Then, Caserio’s leaving himself with no quarterback or the capital to build on any sort of expedited timetable.
And here’s another key question: What does it benefit Caserio to trade Watson now?
By trading him now, you’re making the team you’re trading him to better, necessarily devaluing the picks you’re trading for. Conversely, if you wait until February, you know where any 2022 pick you’re getting will be. Also, there’d likely be more suitors to drive the price up, and maybe more clarity as to Watson’s standing both legally and with the league.
THE REST OF THE STORY
Similar to when O'Brien was here. Albert Breer is a media PR mouthpiece for current and former Patriots. If this is what he is posting, you can believe it came from Caserio or Easterby. The only question is if he is being used to inform or his story is an NRG negotiation ploy.
I thought you were against conspiracy theories?
Texian
Hall of Fame
My way is not the only way but it is my point of view and this is a message board for the purpose of expressing exactly that. Some don't agree, understandable. Some take it personal, not my fault.
Caserio could do what you suggest but his recent management behavior suggest he will not.
Yes he could bring in a bunch of young guys but how will that sync with a new HC and staff and new systems in 2023. Sounds like this is putting horse before the cart. And a recipe for continued failures.
Yes I mentioned JJ but I did not accent in red. You're right, I should have not included him.
I've mentioned a couple of items I agree with such as signing Ingram and trading Roby but felt Caserio could have done a rd better with as much $ as he had to eat.
Saying you don't need salary space is fools gold. As a former exec you know this.
I'm fine with cutting guys as long as they did not contribute a large amount to dead money. Caserio created over $37MM in dead money this year. Because of that he had to restructure over $35MM (borrowed money from 2022 and 2023 salary caps) in order to be able to sign a 53 man roster. Most were over 30 at the end of their careers is all he could afford. As a former exec you know this is just bad management and being fiscally irresponsible.
Caserio didn't have to create so much dead money or restructure any contracts if we have just done the following: Caserio Trades Mark Ingram | Page 3 | Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com
He restructured Mercilus and Cunningham too.
I understand not having a 1st and 2nd RD picks. That's not what bothers me. It's the way RDs 3 - 7 were handled that does and scares the hell out of me going into 2022. In a rebuilding year when you need to add as many young 4 year contracts as you can, Caserio took his 8 picks in 2021, used 2 picks from 2022 for a total of 10 picks to draft 5 players. Plus his trades were very questionable.
So I too am expecting a windfall of draft picks from trading DW4. Using history and Caserio's pattern of draft behavior as a guide, I'm afraid and expecting he will be much like a teenage girl at the mall with all of her Christmas cash. Blow it all instead of maximizing the returns over a 3 to 4 year period.
As a former exec and business owner myself I too believe in having a long term planning strategy. I also believe in having goals and management by objectives.
I guess some fans have to have hope so I'm probably there worst enemy/nightmare. Others like myself don't deal in hope but in the reality of the situation. Have to call it as we see it. Even if it is a massive FUBAR clown show, dumpster fire. Sorry to say that as long as there is four seats at the Kirby Boardroom roundtable you can expect more of the same.
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If you remember .... I was the first one to break the reason behind the DHop trade and the Momma Watson involvement as well as the very first to refer to Instagram as the source of these issues which ultimately ends up leading us to the root of his legal issues today.
To this day no "reporter" or talking head has actually reported those things but we've learned piecemeal over time that they were factual..
But lets go back in time here to before that - Watson had no extension and his momma was in the ear of Easterby , Cal & Janice complaining that Hopkins was a bad influence on her son. He's dating all these tramps instead of sticking with the high class girlfriend he had been with for several years.
Without that trade , there probably was no extension and they are forced to either tag him or trade him , sounds great in hindsight .... bit that's because hindsight's always 20/20.
But at the time , before the trade demands and before the sex charges , the world would have laughed at them for ending up in that situation.
I think it's also safe to say that just about any team in the league would have made the same decision trying to protect their franchise QB at the expense of trading Hopkins. Not that those other teams would have gotten such a poor return .... Image is everything.
The optics now are that the Texans are stupid for giving him an extension .... They are idiots for trying to protect him .... problem is they can't protect him from himself.
And here we are today with the Texans doing all they can to salvage their investment .... an investment that one person put the torch to.
When you look at it from your perspective , piecemeal of partial information , it looks like they are keystone cops. But when you break down the facts and apply a little logic , the optics change and there's only one person to blame.
No Cal isn't the best in the business and definitely wasn't ready for the job but he's not the source of the problems , just the one who has to deal with them. Yes , he's done so poorly but being honest , I don't think many people would have handled it differently. This was destined to be a cluster**** from the get go.
I have no excuse for what Caserio has done with the cap issues .... several bad decisions and I see absolutely NO method to the madness. They'd be better off with you & I running that part of the show.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I second that opinion. This alone is a reason to dismiss Caserio: Caserio Trades Mark Ingram | Page 3 | Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com
I have so many questions. If you and others knew about Watson‘s Instagram activities, why didn’t the Texans know about it before the extension? Also, similar to the reported Hopkins “baby momma“ discussion with O’Brien, did Easterby or O’Brien have conversations with Watson about the fast life or why they will or did trade Hopkins?
No conspiracy theories here. Have you noticed Breer’s reporting on the Texans? Especially when O’Brien was here?
Ever wonder how a former Boston Globe reporter who use to cover the Patriots always have more info on the Texans than McClain, Berman and other local reporters?
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powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Maybe we need to wait and see if there is some method to the madness ....
I haven't done paid any attention to the cap in the last 18 months , just haven't had the give a damn.
When does all this dead money come off the books ?
I don't know how I haven't been able to get this point across over multiple posts on the subject -
We knew but we didn't know.
What we knew , or thought we knew was that Watson was screwing around with multiple groupies on instagram - None of that is against the law , it was just a lack of discretion on his part.
What we didn't have a clue about was the illegal , none of that had come to light until after the extension.
Does that clear it up for you ?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Question: Why is Watson acting like the Texans betrayed his trust? What’s the real reason he wants out of here?
Texansballer74
The Marine
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