Scooter
Funky
Drowned would be the more apt description.
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Duane Brown traded to Seahawks
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
Drowned would be the more apt description.
You bet it was, RS often doesn't get as much credit as he deserves.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I'm on your wave length but with KJax at FS. He should've been placed there after his rookie season or during...just depends on what everyone saw and how it was interpreted. I'd like a bigger and stronger athlete at SS since KJax could dominate (IMHO) with his size, speed and physicality at FS. He would only benefit with an opportunity to watch and react to the play in front of him...a true center fielder who packs a punch.
After 11 yrs of Ricky on the job, how would you rate his job performance?
This is beginning to look like another 9-7, 7-9 season. (Very familiar with this during Ricky's tenure.)
dream_team
Hall of Fame
This trade was more than I expected. I was saying earlier in the season I wouldn’t expect anything more than a 3rd rounder for DB. I mean who would trade a lot for an aging LT, coming off major surgery, and only has two more years in their contract? I was proven wrong. Also not implying Seattle made a dumb move. They are a legit SB contender and saw an opportunity to improve the weakest part of their team.
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Scooter
Funky
I didn't suggest Kareem at Free Safety. I suggested the appreciation for his being our slot cover corner who can adapt to extraneous situations. Slot corner being the singularly most difficult position on defense in today's game. His ability to not only play that position, but excel at outside CB (easy probowl if given a full season) and rush db and heavy db and free safety and centerfielder and extra linebacker. My wavelength is that few realize how much Kareem actually does .... and it pisses me off when someone goes back in time to remark about his abilities.
KJ is an above avg slot CB and can play S although we dont really know how well. He's undersized for the S position but is a great tackler. As an outside CB he's always either been bad as a young CB, passable outside under Phillips and is trending back towards bad outside under Butler. KJ is a good player but has to be used correctly.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I understood where you were coming from but I'm just saying his ultimate calling might've been to focus solely at FS. KJax career moments have primarily occurred when the Texans possessed a top defensive pass rush and the seasons when that pass rush wasn't available allowed us fans to see his warts. Is that a bad thing...no, IMHO he might've been a more consistent All Pro at FS.
Scooter
Funky
Above average my butt, Harris is the only slot corner that I would put in range with Jackson. Kareem is damn near the only DB keeping us in games. He's splitting his time between covering for Kevin at CB2, trying to play the most difficult position of slot defense, and a transition to zone safety defense (when he's not blitzing or playing run defense). Is he supposed to start running routes and pass blocking for Watson since he has so much free time to learn a new trade?
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TexansBull
Hall of Fame
We have a franchise QB that could be one of the best at that position for years to come.
Made a good trade with SEA to get rid of DB.
It's a what have you done for me lately and not what have you done for me in the past league.
Lately he has done good. And the future looks even better. Superbowl contenders next two years. I don't care about his years under Kubiak. That's the past.
Remember on thing:
Doesnt matter Brian. Division Champs 2 years in a row.
The major surgery was over a year ago & he's played well since
House of Pain
Wild Speculator
Excellent post. I'm sure we've all had our doubts about KJax but he's been asked to do so much in so many different positions. He's also a gamer IMO.
I think some of the falloff in the secondary is a direct function of our front 7 losing so many star players. IMO our secondary functions not unlike the NYG secondary did when they beat the then undefeated Pats. Our front 7 reduces the amount of time that the QB gets to throw, which makes our secondary looks better.
Looks like we aren't generating pressure on the QB, which means he has more time to throw, which means he doesn't make as many mistakes, which makes your offense give up 41 points (and huge plays) and makes your defense look like the personification of a tire fire.
Section516
Warrior
I like future draft picks. I know we have good cap space and have the option to have a lot more by cutting players on our roster that are already being out performed. Not saying we need to go JAX, but one of the advantages to having a rookie QB is you're not paying him 25Mil/yr. The next few years are going to be key, DW4 needs to continue to build and not regress, stay healthy, all that jazz. But also how we spend that money - We don't want to be the Redskins.
The Rams went and signed OL at key positions and that really helped their QB turn it around. I would love to do that... but as long as we're smart and add key people at the key positions and maybe spend some of that $ on pure ST gamers...maybe a Darren Sproles kind of outlet. Who knows. Hopkins is signed, Clowney deal will be interesting as hes been a good player but seems to play the Patriots outstanding....but we still have the extended option year.
The Rams went and signed OL at key positions and that really helped their QB turn it around. I would love to do that... but as long as we're smart and add key people at the key positions and maybe spend some of that $ on pure ST gamers...maybe a Darren Sproles kind of outlet. Who knows. Hopkins is signed, Clowney deal will be interesting as hes been a good player but seems to play the Patriots outstanding....but we still have the extended option year.
I agree with the DB trade and think Little Ricky did well. I also look at the mans body of work and nothing jumps out at me that says you can win a SB with him as GM. This upcoming draft is not only a huge turning point in this franchises history, If they drafy well in the 3rd/4th rds they could be set up to be SB contenders for yrs to come. Nothing in Ricky's past draft history in the 3rd rd says he will be able to accomplish this task.
Think of Ted Thompson and Favre/Rodgers.
Texansballer74
The Marine
That's not Rick's fault. If O'Brien makes the right calls against the Patriots and Seahawks we would be seated at 5-2. We would be considered as one of the top 10 teams in the NFL. Better yet, if we would've won those two games, we would be ranked in everyone's top 3.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
C'mon you know that's self evident from small moves to big moves. Their track record has been filled with both hits (Jonathan Joseph, Vince Wilfork) and misses (Brock Osweiler, Ed Reed).
You might be closer to the truth if just focusing on offensive line acquisitions, but I would argue more a matter of missing and poor evaluation/projection than not trying at all.
Even in the draft they've doubled down and taken swings just missed or had terrible luck but this is a better crop coming up in the draft and more cap room to maneuver and target free agents in 2018.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Love how you just throw stuff out without checking. During RS's tenure TT has drafted 1 starter and 1 regular now retired injured in the 3rd round.
My point was TT hasn't done much with 20 years of HOF QB's and I don't expect much more from Ricky with Watson.
Who did Ricky target in FA this year?
Maybe Ricky's new strategy is not to participate in Fa at all that way he can avoid costly mistakes
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
OK except TT became GM in 2005.
Doesn't matter I see the same fate with Ricky in charge.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Romo.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Cool, I'd like to see a Lombardi in Houston in the next couple years
markn
All Pro
Isn't it funny how things work out.
We trade Osweiler + a 2nd round pick away to the Browns to make cap space for Romo.
Romo retires to become a media analyst.
Texans trade their first and a future 1st to the Browns in exchange for the 12th pick which they use to take Watson.
I didn't think I'd ever say this...
Thank you, Tony Romo.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
The patriots game isn't on OB. Players failed to get fumbles and catch a game ending interception.
The Seahawks our defense was a mess. More about their inability to defend the pass than OB on one series of calls.
In both games he made the right play calls to put the players in a position to score points. But in those two series I agree the it could have been better.
Could the result been different with different play calls - mainly put the ball in Watsons hands? Sure. But it could be the same too.
I think it is unfair to put it all on OB. He could have done better i agree, but the defense needs to step up.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Chasing Romo seems so long ago. But it deserves to be said again and louder.
THANK YOU TONY ROMO.
plus - good job to Rick Smith taking advantage of the Browns. Twice.
Texansballer74
The Marine
No its not all on O'Brien, but in crucial time he folded. He went conservative and also put the trust in a terrible secondary.
And that wasn't my point. Steel continues to blame Rick Smith. If we go 9-7 or 8-8, how in the world is that on RS? Especially when we should've won those two game. In which would put us 11-5 or 10-6.
Yes it's gonna be very interesting this offseason to see what Rick does with one of my favorite players, Jadeveon Clowney ? When JD is on, he's all-pro, all-world, all-universe whatever you want to call him but I'd be the first to admit he's streaky. I dunno how much would that second contract cost the Texans, or what would JD fetch in the way of Draft picks in a trade ? It's gonna be interesting.
adama51
Walk-on
IMO it all revolves around if he can stay healthy. So far so good but you never know when the injury bug might hit him again. Also, if Watt comes back he wont be the same and that would make Clowney the next man up on the line.
To me, we really cant afford NOT to sign him if he continues an upward trajectory and we continue to be plagued with defensive injuries but I'm a Clowney fanboy so don't mind me
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Tired of hearing everyone from folks on here to Nick Friggin Wright on ESPN blaming BoB for the seahawks and patriots games...It's just silly b/c you can only come to that conclusion with the benefit of hindsight. The reality is If Miller converts on both of those instances we're not talking about it. Every play matters and if you look it at from that perspective, We had a few opportunites to lock up both games & the team failed on several occasions independent of BoB's decision to run Miller up the middle 3 straight times both games. If Watson doesn't throw that pick 6 early in the game we win too...but i don't hear anyone blaming the loss on him.
Its easy to say "Just keep it in Watson's hands...." and let him win it for you in hindsight....... but you've got to be able to depend on your run game & your rb to get you a few tough yards at some point in a game...especially in those situations. If not then when? Furthermore The last thing i want is to see Watson get hurt on a play that for all intents and purposes could've and should've been able to be made by 1 of his backs................. lest us not forget how Schaub was ruined forever on what was supposed to be a nice safe play in 2011.
Maybe if Bob uses Blue or Foreman instead of soft running ass Miller we convert on those crucial 1st downs....but that's still far from a sure thing given how much we suck up front on the o-line. Regardless, I didn't really see much of any MAJOR reason why BoB shouldn't have called the plays he did in those situations.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Just read an article with this quote from jjo:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ane-brown-deal-of-course-everybody-was-upset/
Leads me to believe some of our suspicions were right and that at some point he reached a level where he simply wanted to move on.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ane-brown-deal-of-course-everybody-was-upset/
Leads me to believe some of our suspicions were right and that at some point he reached a level where he simply wanted to move on.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Well done.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yeah get yours but not by effecting others. Your word should mean something. He's gone and we got about $5 m more cap space if needed; might need for Joseph if he keeps impressing. We can use another corner if healthy.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
LMAO......ok, point taken cak.......but even if he does that, its still far from a sure thing that using those guys instead of Miller was gonna be the difference in conversion. Foreman's biggest contributions this year have come in the pass game not the run game and unless im mistaken, Blue wasn't active for the Pats game, he was still out with the ankle for the Pats game.
Texansballer74
The Marine
We are not just blaming Bill O'Brien. Shoots even the horse himself isn't blaming only himself. But when it comes to situational football Bill O'Brien screwed the pooch twice this season against elite opponents. Since he's been here, he have spoken on the importance of situational football. They have practiced these type of situation religiously. And Mr teX he has failed twice miserably. Clock management in those situational moments are huge in football. Everybody knows not to give Brady n Company that much time on the clock. So what do you do, easy, go for it on 4th and 1.
Against the Seahawks it was less than 2 minutes on the clock. All you have to do is get the first down and that's game. But he runs Miller up the gut three times.
Bottom line is he should know his team Mr. teX. He should know that his defense, mainly the secondary will not come through. Your QB average per run was 8.7 man. Run him to the outside and let him win the game for you. He also knows we are not winning the battle in the trenches like that. So why are we running Miller ( the hit and drop) on that situation anyways. How about Foreman and or Blue. At least those two will fight for that one yard.
This is why O'Brien gets a chunk of the blame. Vrabel and that secondary gets a large percentage as well.
Not only that, how about call a freaking timeout when it was very clear that your defense was not set on that game winning touchdown.
Maybe someone earlier in the thread has already said this, but given that I thought Brown was only worth a 3rd round pick, I think we made out like a bandit on this deal.
3rd and a 5th this year, plus a 2nd next year? Rick Smith should be able to turn all that into a 2nd for this year, if he wants to.
3rd and a 5th this year, plus a 2nd next year? Rick Smith should be able to turn all that into a 2nd for this year, if he wants to.
markn
All Pro
Ignoring situational issues and just looking at the stats.
DW handed off to a RB 21 times in the game. Surprisingly, on 9 of those occasions the RB gained 4+ yards meaning there was a nearly 50% chance that the called 3rd down play would succeed.
DW pass completion during the game was 63%.
Stats-wise it's far from cut and dried.
Personally, I did not like the call, not just because of the situation but because of the poor message it sent to DW. Even so, I think the call isn't quite as terrible as some are making out.
Polarizing times we live in.
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markn
All Pro
I think we give up a 5th this year. Seattle will likely pick late so I don't think we could quite use these assets to get into the 2nd.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The contingency plan is starting.
Ricky got lucky.
Tell me what are his contingency plans for the OL, Corners, Safety positions this off-season?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Know your team....like........ know that you have a rookie qb and the future of your franchise at the helm and thus call plays to make someone else step up instead of needlessly putting your golden boy in harms way? Him and Watson put up 31 and 38 pts...most games that's enough to win. Furthermore, "knowing your defense won't come through?" You can't think like that as a head coach.
Again, all this you're speaking on is in hindsight. The real time decisions BoB made were very much justified. The patriots game we took the sure 3 to go up by 5 after the failed 3rd down conversion by Miller....That's a far better position to be in on the road...especially in Foxboro against THAT guy. Aside from that, the runs had a strategic advantage in that they were making NE use their timeouts. by the time Brady & co. got the ball back they only had 1 left with the 2 min warning. Still too much time left for him but hey, I'd rather make Brady drive the length of the field to score a TD to beat me than him just needing to drive his offense into FG range for a GW fg with mr. automatic Stephen Gostkowski If we fail on the 4th and 1 that you're so adamant BoB should've went for to win the game.
The Seahawks game was damn near THE EXACT same scenario in that the seahawks had to drive the length of the field to score a TD to beat us after Miller's failed 3rd down conversion. In this scenario however, Seattle had NO TIMEOUTS and there was even LESS TIME than what Brady had to work with..1.49 to be exact. You say he should've called a TO or something when he realized his defense wasn't set....why would you do that and bail the seahawks out? Furthermore, the seahawks were already in the redzone when that happened on the TD to graham & it was a high probability that you would probably need those TO's to mount your own comeback drive to get your team in FG range to tie the game. The real killer in that situation was that bomb Richardson caught over Gilchrist to start that drive for Seattle.
BoB is constantly preaching complimentary football & In both these situations, BoB played the percentages..........which were at least even but more likely in his favor given what the opposition needed to do to beat us. Vrabel and his defense failed him in both those games. 28 out of 32 teams he faces, he likely comes out on top in these games. He just happened to face 2 of the very best in the game at it.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Yeah, here's the thing - no matter what the result of the play, when it's 3rd and 4 with the game on the line, you put the ball in the hands of your best players. That would be either Watson, Hopkins, or Fuller. That would NOT be Lamar Miller, especially on a run straight up the gut. If you were going to argue for Miller to run the ball there, it should be off tackle, like the TD run earlier in the game, something off the edge, or a screen or similar. You do not hand the ball off to Miller up the gut. It's just stupid. It makes no sense. Early in the game, I can see calling that play to establish it for running other plays off of it, but at that point in the game, in that situation, it's just stupid. There's no defending that play call. When a player fails at execution, that's an outcome you might not like, but the other team gets paid too, so you know that's how it works. But when a coach just gifts the defense a stop like that with a bad call, that's inexcusable.
PUT THE BALL IN THE HANDS OF YOUR BEST PLAYERS. Then you live with that result, whatever it is.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I guess I'm wondering why you would have Miller take all 3 of those runs, and not work the bigass RB Foreman into that situation? It's not just 3rd and 4, it's 3rd and a tough 4 against a defense expecting a run. Miller isn't known to hit the LB and churn his way for more yards, he usually folds once he hits the first level of contact when running up the middle. Been saying this since we signed him, but it seems like BoB just doesn't understand what kind of RB Miller is.
Running with Watson was also an option, if you have him go out to the side. Could have had a couple receivers in front of him to confuse tacklers, and potentially have an easy outlet for him to pass. In the Seahawks game, there was too much time remaining to think you could not get the first down, and hinder Seattle's chance of scoring before the clock ran out.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Sounds good in theory until u realize too many bad things can happen by throwing it in those situations. Apart from that, trowing the ball helps the defense more if it’s incomplete b/c it stops the clock for them. Defenses know u want to run clock and many times they’re daring u to pass. Furthermore, I’m not sure I’d be trying to throw the ball against THAT secondary in Seattle, especially with your rook qb already having thrown 2 picks in the game already.
To me Eriadoc and Dutchrudder hit the nail on the head. In both situations NE and SEA were expecting run, why give the ball to Miller on a dive up the middle when over the course of a season and half he has shown it isn't his forte. It seems like a RPO with Watson would put so much pressure on the defense, or as DR said give it to the big boy, he may not be able to pass block but he's got some power when he lowers his head.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Already explained this in another post above. What it comes down to is trust. For as timid and blind of a runner Miller is, he’s a vet, surehanded and BoB trusts him. Foreman’s a rookie that had issues with ball security in college and has already fumbled once in a crucial situation this season.
You also don’t want to get in the habit of running your qb to pick up tough yardage. Passing the ball potentially stops the clock if it’s incomplete.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Seattle had 3 timeouts and was instantly jumping them. In another context that argument might make sense but not this one.
And it still doesn't explain running up the middle.