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Deshaun Watson after 16 games

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Definitely not as much as DC - but Watson has done it 4 or 5 times this season as well (run out of bounds behind the LOS) + how many times is he clearly out of the pocket and free to just toss the ball out of bounds but thinks he can Houdini his way into a big play?

Take those away and the numbers (are still horrible because the OLine is NOT good) but they do get better, being generous you could take away at least 12 sacks (so only 50 on the year). However, if you take them away then you also take away the potential for the times when Watson DOES pull a Houdini and breaks 4 tackles and tosses a 20-yard completion. It's a trade-off for sure - hopefully, Watson learns with more experience.
deja vu
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I was reading something in another thread that gave me a thought -

The NFL now has tape on Watson. Is it me, or does it seem he is throwing less interceptions than before? Can I take satisfaction in that?

The biggest problems for DW are two things -

1. Offensive Line - enough said.

2. OB play calling - enough said.
 

Max

Veteran
I was reading something in another thread that gave me a thought -

The NFL now has tape on Watson. Is it me, or does it seem he is throwing less interceptions than before? Can I take satisfaction in that?

The biggest problems for DW are two things -

1. Offensive Line - enough said.

2. OB play calling - enough said.
I'm not sold on the league having tape on Watson argument. I don't deny that having tape on someone helps teams prepare for them but having tape on Drew Brees (or any number of good qbs) hasn't helped the league 'solve' them. Being great at operating your offense trumps a defenses ability to prepare for you based on what your tape shows. A better Oline will undoubtedly help Watson at being better in running the O. OB settling on how much of the RPO offense they're going to mix in will help as well. IMO, we're going to have to rely on a more heavy RPO offense in the playoffs this year to have any success because of our OL problems as well as our receivers being banged up. We'll see what direction we're headed next year when we get there.
 

EVOLVIST

Kid A
OB settling on how much of the RPO offense they're going to mix in will help as well. IMO, we're going to have to rely on a more heavy RPO offense in the playoffs this year to have any success because of our OL problems...
Ummm, yeah, but pick your poison, because you need time for RPO, and the way the Texans have been running it the O-line is folding with no option.

Well, anyway, the Texans are only going to go as far as the O-line can take them. Not a yard further.

I'm not worried about Watson. He's navigating the NFL QB learning curve with aplomb. He's not quite there yet, but I have little doubt that he'll be top-5, if the O-line doesn't get him slaughtered more than his 2nd year tendancies do.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'm not sold on the league having tape on Watson argument. I don't deny that having tape on someone helps teams prepare for them but having tape on Drew Brees (or any number of good qbs) hasn't helped the league 'solve' them. Being great at operating your offense trumps a defenses ability to prepare for you based on what your tape shows. A better Oline will undoubtedly help Watson at being better in running the O. OB settling on how much of the RPO offense they're going to mix in will help as well. IMO, we're going to have to rely on a more heavy RPO offense in the playoffs this year to have any success because of our OL problems as well as our receivers being banged up. We'll see what direction we're headed next year when we get there.
One of the things I liked about watching Peyton Manning was that very few teams could fool him for too long. He usually has a team figured out on the 2nd or third possession. Every now & then a team would have him stumped until the third qtr.

But he'll figure them out & beat them.

I'm hoping to see that kind of thing from Watson, but it's not looking good. It's still early so who knows. But right now it just looks like he's the most talented person on the field. Which I'm not complaining about.

Drew Brees is different. He's more like Brady where he's basically a tool & his OC is doing the figuring still deserving of best ever & future HOF & all those accolades. Just trying to say, poorly, they're doing the same thing Manning did but their OC is very much involved & unfortunately Watson doesn't have one of those.

So our only hope is that he becomes more like Manning.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
If you were to rank the top 10 QBs in the league I don’t see how Watson doesn’t make that list.

Pretty cool after 16 years the Texans finally have a franchise QB.
2018 Deshaun Watson
Passing yards 11th
Passing TDs 12th
TD% 11th
Percentage 7th
Int & Int% 2nd
YPA 4th
QB rating 6th

I eliminated QBs with less than 300 attempts but that only moved Watson feom 6th to 4th on YPA.

Of course none of that considers his 500+ yds rushing and 5 rushing TDs.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
2018 Deshaun Watson
Passing yards 11th
Passing TDs 12th
TD% 11th
Percentage 7th
Int & Int% 2nd
YPA 4th
QB rating 6th

I eliminated QBs with less than 300 attempts but that only moved Watson feom 6th to 4th on YPA.

Of course none of that considers his 500+ yds rushing and 5 rushing TDs.
Yea but how many of those QBs with better stats are playing behind wet toilet paper for an offensive line?

Be interesting to see the QB ranking and OLine ranking together.

Stats don’t always tell the whole story
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Yea but how many of those QBs with better stats are playing behind wet toilet paper for an offensive line?

Be interesting to see the QB ranking and OLine ranking together.

Stats don’t always tell the whole story
I was just supplying some raw data. Context obviously matters. Watson could have blown thru 5000 yds easily if the passes are called. The things largely within his control he's top 10 already even with the OL. So hell yeah I consider hin top 10.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I was just supplying some raw data. Context obviously matters. Watson could have blown thru 5000 yds easily if the passes are called. The things largely within his control he's top 10 already even with the OL. So hell yeah I consider hin top 10.
My apologies I thought you were saying something different
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
2018 Deshaun Watson
Passing yards 11th
Passing TDs 12th
TD% 11th
Percentage 7th
Int & Int% 2nd
YPA 4th
QB rating 6th

I eliminated QBs with less than 300 attempts but that only moved Watson feom 6th to 4th on YPA.

Of course none of that considers his 500+ yds rushing and 5 rushing TDs.
Nor the OL he had to play behind, the injuries to his other WR threats, lack of a running game, and having his TE's hamstrung as additional blockers for a piss-poor OL.
 

Texas Jake

Rookie
Nor the OL he had to play behind, the injuries to his other WR threats, lack of a running game, and having his TE's hamstrung as additional blockers for a piss-poor OL.
With those stats, he is top ten without having to make excuses for the OL. Many of those stats are just below top 10, but how many QBs who rank above him in one stat are below him in one or more of those other stats. The big stat is the INTs. Those will kill a team.
 

frethack

Rookie
Adam Gase could be fired in Miami .. if OBrien was a smart guy he'd surround himself with good coaches - Gase has been in charge of some pretty good offensive teams as an OC .. while mainly deriving from a WCO philosophy I feel he could add some wrinkles to the current offense since the EP is easily tailored and adapted. It's all semantics and terminology anyways.

Do I think it will happen ? Hell no.
I wouldnt be opposed to Gase at all, and he should be familiar with EP. He was an assistant coach (receivers?) in Denver with McDaniels and then QB coach and OC during the Peyton Mannning era. That gives him 4ish years of experience with the EP and "play calling" experience while Manning ran the offense.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Watson sniffing the top 10 with the cast of characters around him is a miracle. I can only imagine what an upgraded line, a true TE threat, and a workhorse back will do to his progression. Can anyone imagine what Watson will look like year 5 and beyond? Im almost giddy in anticipation. Its almost not even a scheme discussion because IMO this guy is so good that it doesnt matter who is coaching him.
 

Texas Jake

Rookie
Watson sniffing the top 10 with the cast of characters around him is a miracle. I can only imagine what an upgraded line, a true TE threat, and a workhorse back will do to his progression. Can anyone imagine what Watson will look like year 5 and beyond? Im almost giddy in anticipation. Its almost not even a scheme discussion because IMO this guy is so good that it doesnt matter who is coaching him.
Fix the o-line and even with this OC and the present cast of characters this offense is scary good IMHO.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Fix the o-line and even with this OC and the present cast of characters this offense is scary good IMHO.
If you want to be technical this offense was scary good last year with a offensive line just as bad (while Deshaun was playing at least) and was able to score at will and was at the top in scoring points. Crazy what only having 1 relevant WR will do to an offense, but yes improving the OL should be a priority (just like it seems to be every year for the past 5) hopefully they figure it out.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I mean I've seen some data that says Akins graded out highly among rookie TEs, but they were not drafted as pass blockers? Not 1 TE on the team currently is a + pass blocker, so why ask them to pass block? Run those guys out there and let them do what they are good at. I've seen both of those guys have great plays at times, but 1-2 targets a game for the TEs on average? That goes beyond a bad offensive line to me.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I mean I've seen some data that says Akins graded out highly among rookie TEs, but they were not drafted as pass blockers? Not 1 TE on the team currently is a + pass blocker, so why ask them to pass block? Run those guys out there and let them do what they are good at. I've seen both of those guys have great plays at times, but 1-2 targets a game for the TEs on average? That goes beyond a bad offensive line to me.
Total head-scratcher to me
 

frethack

Rookie
What are you going to sacrifice to fix the OL?
Draft picks and cap space...we have plenty of both.

Maybe we are not in position to get a stud left tackle who will maul right out of the gate, but we have plenty to upgrade at least 3 positions.
 

frethack

Rookie
So which unit are you electing not to build?
Assuming we sign Mathieu and Clowney, then I would not be in market for QB or Safety. DL/LB would receive less emphasis this year, but another developmental pass rusher is probably needed. Id be in the market for depth at WR.

The main focus would be CB and OL
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Assuming we sign Mathieu and Clowney, then I would not be in market for QB or Safety. DL/LB would receive less emphasis this year, but another developmental pass rusher is probably needed. Id be in the market for depth at WR.

The main focus would be CB and OL
Okay sorry, I thought you were campaigning for investing heavily in the OL at the expense of everything else
 

frethack

Rookie
Okay sorry, I thought you were campaigning for investing heavily in the OL at the expense of everything else
Not at all...realistically I think the OL and CB will take two more seasons to solidify. A lot can be done this offseason, but a stud left tackle will be hard to come by in our draft position. If only we had one of those last year...
 

Texas Jake

Rookie
What are you going to sacrifice to fix the OL?
1st round pick if an OT is there and is not a reach. Second and Third if OL there. Not all three pick but maybe two of the three. If we can add OL through FA would help. Need to draft a CB high. Get a RB with a 4th round pick. Throughout the process take BPA, filling need if possilbe.

The major needs I see are OL and CB. After that would be WR. We have the talent there, they just haven't proven they can stay on the field. Other areas would be nice to address, but I don't see as critical.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
So is fixing all the teams problems only going to be achieved through the draft? Houston is in the top 5 in available cap space and the rookie pool for a team drafting in the 20's is usually between 6-7 Million which would leave around 70Ms to sign in house guys and FAs - thats alot of space. I'd like to see Gaine be proactive in free agency and acknowledge that the window with the current nucleus is not very wide. Make a splash. Put your fingerprint on the team and show the world you mean business.

Maybe Gaine and Billy are so 'aligned' that Gaine see's the cap space as OBrien sees timeouts? Hold on to them forever and never use them LOL :kitten:
 

frethack

Rookie
So is fixing all the teams problems only going to be achieved through the draft? Houston is in the top 5 in available cap space and the rookie pool for a team drafting in the 20's is usually between 6-7 Million which would leave around 70Ms to sign in house guys and FAs - thats alot of space. I'd like to see Gaine be proactive in free agency and acknowledge that the window with the current nucleus is not very wide. Make a splash. Put your fingerprint on the team and show the world you mean business.

Maybe Gaine and Billy are so 'aligned' that Gaine see's the cap space as OBrien sees timeouts? Hold on to them forever and never use them LOL :kitten:
I dont have the impression that Gaine is saving cap space. To be forthcoming, I feel that Gaine has had a decent start with what he was given, but Im not gonna crown him until he has had a couple of offseasons with full drafts.

Solder was heavily pursued to the tune of $15mil...he just wasnt that into us. If only we had a LT on the roster last year that we could have paid a bit more...

Out of our three new OL, I see only Fulton as a potential long term starter.

We pulled in Mathieu, who has been good-not-great...but much better than anyone we have had at safety before.

Colvin was given a pretty good sum, but has been a disappointment thus far. Really missing Bouye right about now.

We were pretty active in this past FA, though we missed out on that "splash" left tackle (who wasnt that good anyway). Hopefully we will be active players again with more success.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
What are you going to sacrifice to fix the OL?
Me, I'd tag and trade Clowney for 2 picks. I'd trade back if the opportunity presented itself and pick up an additional pick. If I could expose Fuller to the market and get an interested party, I'd part with him for a reasonable pick RD4 or RD5 b/c as a perennially injured player, I'd be happy to let another team see the possibilities before the loses him after he endure another injury plagued season for no compensation. I think 4 more picks in the 2019 NFL Draft gives Gaine the opportunity to add both impact and solid depth type players. Add a couple of solid veterans b/c of the additional cap space and this team could really make a move next season. This comes at the expense of Clowney and Fuller.
 
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OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
What are you going to sacrifice to fix the OL?
Me, I'd tag and trade Clowney for 2 picks. I'd trade back if TE opportunity presented itself and pick up an additional pick. If I could expose Fuller to the market and get an interested party, I'd part with him for a reasonable pick RD4 or RD5 b/c as a perennially injured player, I'd be happy to let another team see the possibilities before the Texans lose him after he endure another injury plagued season for no compensation.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
x1000

Including the defense...fewer 3 and outs, longer drives late game, opposing offense is off the field, more rest for the D
I want to fix the OL.

That said, going 3 & out hasn't been a huge problem for us this season. Not so much that our defense is getting gassed or that they aren't rested between possessions.

Still an improved OL would help the defense in that we'll put more 7s on the board instead of 3s.

Nothing shuts down a run game like a 3 score lead.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Out of our three new OL, I see only Fulton as a potential long term starter.
Kinda hard to say about Kelemente. Between Davenport on one side & Martin on the other, & who knows what calls Watson is making (& we know he isn't seeing everything).

He looks the part. I'd like to upgrade the LT & Center position before dumping him.
 

frethack

Rookie
Kinda hard to say about Kelemente. Between Davenport on one side & Martin on the other, & who knows what calls Watson is making (& we know he isn't seeing everything).

He looks the part. I'd like to upgrade the LT & Center position before dumping him.
Agreed...I'm pretty disappointed in Martin. Thought he had all the tools to be dominant. I wonder if a coaching change might help him.

I dont know if there is any helping Davenport

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So is fixing all the teams problems only going to be achieved through the draft? Houston is in the top 5 in available cap space and the rookie pool for a team drafting in the 20's is usually between 6-7 Million which would leave around 70Ms to sign in house guys and FAs - thats alot of space. I'd like to see Gaine be proactive in free agency and acknowledge that the window with the current nucleus is not very wide. Make a splash. Put your fingerprint on the team and show the world you mean business.

Maybe Gaine and Billy are so 'aligned' that Gaine see's the cap space as OBrien sees timeouts? Hold on to them forever and never use them LOL :kitten:
This isn't a good FA CB/OT FA class. It's a good RB FA class.

They can use some of that cap space to trade for a vet CB from a team like the NYG's that currently have a guy like Jenkins on their roster.

Would you trade a 2nd for Jenkins and a 4th?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Agreed...I'm pretty disappointed in Martin. Thought he had all the tools to be dominant. I wonder if a coaching change might help him.

I dont know if there is any helping Davenport

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
The ankle injuries are keeping Martin from being what he could've been. I'm OK with adding an OG and moving Fulton to C next offseason. Fulton is really good at C.
 


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