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Deshaun Watson after 16 games

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Nah, I do not see the NFL having the Refs fixing the games. When a few retired, it would get out. People just can't keep their mouth shut.


Let me add another parallel, Kubiak's team lost the last 3 out of 4 and OB's has lost 2 of 3............I can't continue.
True on finishing the season on a down note. Parallels
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
If that were the case why did Bob run through all of the pocket statue backup QBs this league has to offer? actually NEVER going for a mobile QB until Watson was thrust upon him.

want to get sick to your stomach? Guess who was Steve Youngs QB coach? LOL :kubepalm:

Man we all knew Watson wasn't O'brien's type of quarterback. He wanted a prototypical tall QB who operates in the pocket. Lol
 

Trashwatsoncan

Practice Squad
Him and Mahomes are going to be the Manning-Brady analogues for the AFC for the next 15 years.

Not making a 1:1 comparison, but I think they will define the "who's the best" discussion in our conference.
Yikes... Watson will live in lucks shadow. Lucks better than Watson. Luck will be in that discussion before Watson is
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Do you have a link for BOB on record? No doubt that he's called some running plays this year. Last week in particular but all in the first half. It looked like last year in the first half -- rollouts and all. It's what I said in the game day thread -- why did we stop? That game is the best example I can give of what I'm trying to say. I really thought BOB figured out that this is what we needed to do to be successful w/ this OLine because we ran this offense the entire first half but then we were right back to trying to keep him in the pocket the 2nd half. I don't have an explanation for it other than square peg in round hole hoping it eventually works.
You don't show your qb tape of Aaron Rodgers & other qbs who run if you're not ok with your guy doing the same thing. This was BoB last year on Watson & scrambling.

https://torotimes.com/2017/09/27/bill-obrien-has-spoken-to-deshaun-watson-about-protecting-himself-as-runner/

There have been also numerous times on his coach's show where he's basically said he's fine with him running....if he has to. BoB thing is & has always been he just wants him to be smart about it & protect himself better is all.
 

Max

Veteran
You don't show your qb tape of Aaron Rodgers & other qbs who run if you're not ok with your guy doing the same thing. This was BoB last year on Watson & scrambling.

https://torotimes.com/2017/09/27/bill-obrien-has-spoken-to-deshaun-watson-about-protecting-himself-as-runner/

There have been also numerous times on his coach's show where he's basically said he's fine with him running....if he has to. BoB thing is & has always been he just wants him to be smart about it & protect himself better is all.
I don't know that this addresses running by design and rollouts where running is one of the options (what I was talking about), so we'll see where all of this is headed if we ever get the protection needed to see this offense in all of it's glory.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
I don't know that this addresses running by design and rollouts where running is one of the options (what I was talking about), so we'll see where all of this is headed if we ever get the protection needed to see this offense in all of it's glory.
ummm, it's all inclusive?
 

Max

Veteran
ummm, it's all inclusive?
So BOB wants Watson to protect himself whether he's scrambling or he's running by design - novel concept. The article gives no indication of what BOB is thinking in regards to keeping Watson in the pocket as pass protection improves which was the conversation.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I don't know that this addresses running by design and rollouts where running is one of the options (what I was talking about), so we'll see where all of this is headed if we ever get the protection needed to see this offense in all of it's glory.
I think the overriding point here is that BoB is aware of what he has in Watson and he is not trying to make him stay in the pocket like some here assert.

BoB more or less understands DW4’s legs are a weapon and encourages him to use them as needed and even facilitates the use of them with his playcalling at times.
 
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Max

Veteran
I think the overriding point here is that BoB is aware of what he has in Watson and he is not trying to make him stay in the pocket like some here assert.

BoB more or less understands DW4’s legs are a weapon and encourages him to use them as needed and even facilitates the use of them with his playcalling at times.
You don't think he's keeping him more in the pocket than last year? It's night and day different to me.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So BOB wants Watson to protect himself whether he's scrambling or he's running by design - novel concept. The article gives no indication of what BOB is thinking in regards to keeping Watson in the pocket as pass protection improves which was the conversation.

Sure it does...in that very same article he makes a point to say that DW4 isn’t a run 1st qb. Obviously he would prefer him not run........but that’s no different from any HC not wanting his franchise guy to get hurt .........and from the simple fact that you can advance the ball faster by throwing it from the pocket where u have the full view of the field vs rolling to one side or the other and having only 1/2 the field.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You don't think he's keeping him more in the pocket than last year? It's night and day different to me.
No I don’t. If anyone is keeping DW4 in the pocket it’s DW4 b/c he’s trying to make the big play. You also have to factor in a few things.

Watson knows the playbook better than he did last year so it’s natural that he’d hang in the pocket a little longer going thru 1,2 and possibly 3 reads to let things develop....whereas last year it was 1 read and I’m gone.

2, Watson also understands what the defense is trying to do to him...which is keep him in the pocket with spies and mush rushing.

3, the Texans use a ton of 7 man protections for him so the pocket is probably the safest place for him anyway.

Plus the 6 games he played in last year isn’t a big enough sample size to know a whole lot anyway..
 

Max

Veteran
No I don’t. If anyone is keeping DW4 in the pocket it’s DW4 b/c he’s trying to make the big play. You also have to factor in a few things.

Watson knows the playbook better than he did last year so it’s natural that he’d hang in the pocket a little longer going thru 1,2 and possibly 3 reads to let things develop....
I'm talking about play designed rollouts which BOB is responsible for implementing if he sees fit (which he hasn't this year vs last).
 

Max

Veteran
Sure it does...in that very same article he makes a point to say that DW4 isn’t a run 1st qb. Obviously he would prefer him not run........but that’s no different from any HC not wanting his franchise guy to get hurt .........and from the simple fact that you can advance the ball faster by throwing it from the pocket where u have the full view of the field vs rolling to one side or the other and having only 1/2 the field.
Never said he was run first. No idea what that has to do with what I said.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I wish there was an offensive coordinator to bring in. Some type of QB guru. Someone that would mesh with OB.
I now have heard from 2 sources......one being McClain, another someone deeply entrenched in the Texans organization..........when O'Brien hands off that responsibility, it is unlikely to be present Texans QB coach Sean Ryan ..............it will be Texans TE coach Tim Kelly.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
.....it will be Texans TE coach Tim Kelly.
Greaaaat, a predominately defense experienced friend of OB:

Kelly came to Houston from Penn State, where he served as a graduate assistant under Head Coach Bill O’Brien, having held the same position at Ball State in 2011.

Before he went to Ball State, Kelly was the defensive coordinator, defensive line coach and recruiting coordinator at Minnesota State-Moorhead for the 2010 season.

Kelly spent the 2008-09 seasons at Illinois-Wesleyan, where he was the defensive line coach for the 2009 CCIW Championship team that ranked ninth among all defenses at the NCAA Division-III level. He also coached two first-team all-conference selections.

Kelly played defensive tackle at Eastern Illinois, starting all 48 games in his collegiate career and serving as the team’s captain in 2007. He was named to the Capital One Academic All-District V Team in 2006 and 2007.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I now have heard from 2 sources......one being McClain, another someone deeply entrenched in the Texans organization..........when O'Brien hands off that responsibility, it is unlikely to be present Texans QB coach Sean Ryan ..............it will be Texans TE coach Tim Kelly.
If McClain says Tim Kelly, then it’s Sean Ryan.

Congrats Sean on the promotion!
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Yikes... Watson will live in lucks shadow. Lucks better than Watson. Luck will be in that discussion before Watson is
... after their first 16 starts -

Luck: 339/627 - 54.1% - 4,374 - 23-18 - 7.0 ypa - 76.5 rat + 62 att - 255 rushing - 4.1 ypc - 5 td

Watson: 315/490 - 64.3% - 4,194 - 36-16 - 8.6 ypa - 102.2 rat + 87 att - 528 rushing - 6.1 ypc - 3 td

just trying to keep with the spirit of the thread.

so ya, bruh ... we're good.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I now have heard from 2 sources......one being McClain, another someone deeply entrenched in the Texans organization..........when O'Brien hands off that responsibility, it is unlikely to be present Texans QB coach Sean Ryan ..............it will be Texans TE coach Tim Kelly.
That. That just makes no sense. Seriously how, who, what .... Can anyone explain that? Sounds like a disaster in the making. These are the guys we're entrusting the career of Watson with? I just don't see how this is a good idea Kelly isn't qualified IMO, almost rather Buttchin keep calling the plays. SMH.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I now have heard from 2 sources......one being McClain, another someone deeply entrenched in the Texans organization..........when O'Brien hands off that responsibility, it is unlikely to be present Texans QB coach Sean Ryan ..............it will be Texans TE coach Tim Kelly.
If this becomes reality.....just another reason for OB to be shown the door. He'd just be getting himself another puppet who'd allow him to run the offense from behind the scenes.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
If this becomes reality.....just another reason for OB to be shown the door. He'd just be getting himself another puppet who'd allow him to run the offense from behind the scenes.
Why would it be any different from his boy Sean Ryan being OC?
 

TexansFan15

Waterboy
I now have heard from 2 sources......one being McClain, another someone deeply entrenched in the Texans organization..........when O'Brien hands off that responsibility, it is unlikely to be present Texans QB coach Sean Ryan ..............it will be Texans TE coach Tim Kelly.
If given your choice, who would you choose to bring in as OC?
 

TexansFan15

Waterboy
I now have heard from 2 sources......one being McClain, another someone deeply entrenched in the Texans organization..........when O'Brien hands off that responsibility, it is unlikely to be present Texans QB coach Sean Ryan ..............it will be Texans TE coach Tim Kelly.

If given your choice, who would you choose to bring in as OC?
 

welsh texan

All Pro
If given your choice, who would you choose to bring in as OC?
For me, option 1 would be Mike Munchak, option 2 would be Andy Heck.

This accepts that OB ain't about to relinquish control of the offense and so uses the title of OC to secure the services of one of the better OL coaches in the league.

I feel I understand what OB is doing with this team, it Belichick ball. He's going to win ugly and lose pretty, never show any of the playbook when not necessary.

I actually think this last Eagles game shows just how much he's going to stick to this, they snuck a halftime lead against the run of play and that led to turtle ball despite both the points lead failing the eyeball test, and the fact that our D was faltering badly.

I heard a stat recently that Watson hasn't lost a game by more than 1 score since high school apparently. I can't see the shackles being let off under OB too often so enjoy those magic moments like vs the Eagles when you can.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
If this becomes reality.....just another reason for OB to be shown the door. He'd just be getting himself another puppet who'd allow him to run the offense from behind the scenes.
Why would it be any different from his boy Sean Ryan being OC?
Said before, he shouldn't promote in house. He needs a fresh input on E-P. Pittsburgh & NE both use E-P. Does our O look anything like either of theirs. Prefer someone from Pittsburgh as they move Big Ben around more.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Adam Gase could be fired in Miami .. if OBrien was a smart guy he'd surround himself with good coaches - Gase has been in charge of some pretty good offensive teams as an OC .. while mainly deriving from a WCO philosophy I feel he could add some wrinkles to the current offense since the EP is easily tailored and adapted. It's all semantics and terminology anyways.

Do I think it will happen ? Hell no.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Said before, he shouldn't promote in house. He needs a fresh input on E-P. Pittsburgh & NE both use E-P. Does our O look anything like either of theirs. Prefer someone from Pittsburgh as they move Big Ben around more.
Sure if there is someone there that he can/will work with. He's not gonna change his philosophy, but does need someone to help with game-planning and in-game management
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
But I have a bad feeling that BOB wants to make him a pure pocket passer if/when the OL improves and take the mobility portion of Watson's game out.
I don't get this feeling. I feel BO'b has impressed on Watson there's a time for magic & a time for restraint. Hopefully Watson learns to determine what time it is I real time & act accordingly.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I know the O-line is piss poor but of those 49 sacks how many were due to DW refusing to give up on a play only to take a needless sack
I agree, Watson's league leading sacks is very different than David Carr's league leading stats. DW4 is making defenses pay & winning games, no knock on David Carr, Watson's situation is completely different.

Just saying there is a difference.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Kinda surprising actually. Would've thought Cam would've done that but....hey, the kid is bad mofo...
 
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LikeMike

Veteran
Ok, let's update this with his first full season:

345/505 for a 68,1% completion percentage, 4165 yards, 26 TDs, 9 INT, 103,1QBR, 551 yards rushing, 5 TDs, 9 Fumbles.

Overall that's easyily a Top 10 QB performance - for a second year player that struggled out of the gate this season. Since week 7 he has 17 TDs and only 2 INTs plus 4 rushing TDs and only 2 Fumbles.

I hope we get a better OL and better playcalling for him - his total yards weren't that impressive after week 7, but he was consistently getting the job down. I can't wait to see him in the playoffs - we have yet to see a QB that actually elevates his play in the playoffs in Houston since the start of the Texans...
 
I agree, Watson's league leading sacks is very different than David Carr's league leading stats. DW4 is making defenses pay & winning games, no knock on David Carr, Watson's situation is completely different.

Just saying there is a difference.
We are lucky Watson is much more athletic and quicker on his feet.
 
DW4 is a risk/reward guy. He makes the standard plays when he gets protection so already a stud, then we put up with the amazing and absurd when he extends. In general, his add libbing gives us more than it takes, and I dont see those long lobs to the end zone that are 30/70 balls anymore we saw early in the season. I love the kid, and hope we keep the ad libbing in his game. As his receivers get used to it (and stay healthy), more big plays than busts will occur
Good points.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Actually DC was a pretty good athlete and good runner (not Watson good, no). His problem was he liked to run out of bounds behind the LOS, creating many of his sacks all by himself
About 20% of them by a couple estimates.

And then there's the 2006 to 2007 evidence. 43 sacks with Carr to 22 without.
 
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FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
Definitely not as much as DC - but Watson has done it 4 or 5 times this season as well (run out of bounds behind the LOS) + how many times is he clearly out of the pocket and free to just toss the ball out of bounds but thinks he can Houdini his way into a big play?

Take those away and the same numbers (are still horrible because the OLine is NOT good) but they do get better, being generous you could take away at least 12 sacks (so only 50 on the year). However, if you take them away then you also take away the potential for the times when Watson DOES pull a Houdini and breaks 4 tackles and tosses a 20-yard completion. It's a trade-off for sure - hopefully, Watson learns with more experience.
 


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