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Derek Stingley vs. Sauce Gardner

FuzzyLogic said:
Well not a testament to wether I think Sauce is good or not, but the last pass attempt by Allen would have been a PI call for the Texans... any Texan
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no doubt..but the contact was light enough to where i could see the refs letting it go like they did..plus the WR pushed off 1st so…

Ball still hit the WR in the bread basket so it should’ve been caught too..
 
JB said:
That announcer makes it sound like Sauce was in tight coverage instead of zone and I'm sure PFF will reflect it the same way but
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he really did nothing spectacular that play
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i mean his nick name is cool tho…..:rolleyes:sometimes u just gotta be in the right place at the right time. Allen had some rather uncharacteristically bad TO’s this game…that 1 wasn’t even the worst 1..that red zone pick was Davis Mills-esque.
 
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Doc108 said:
Is this thread really just homers trying to dump on a good player because we didn’t draft him and doomers trying to pump up a player because we didn’t draft him?

Very strange
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Jets fan here and this is pretty much what I'm seeing. Both players are great young CBs. Woolen is another. They are all different types of CBs but it's a great class. I love Gardner the most, but I'm completely biased so it means little, if anything.

Ignore the Pepsi Rookie of the Week stuff because it's clearly overloaded by Jet fans. Not that he didn't deserve a few, but if he wins this week over Joseph or Walker, it exposes it as the joke that it is - albeit a fun one for the moment each week to debate.

Long term, no question that the Jets defense, as a whole, benefits from an incredible boost in talent at every level, which helps everyone play better. Four-man rush is a treat to behold, and something we haven't seen in NY for decades. The thing I'm most fascinated by with Sauce (and Woolen) is that tall CBs have been pretty scarce in the league. Mostly it seemed to be a speed/agility challenge. But these two guys have got it all and WRs are feeling it. The funny thing is that Stingley isn't short by any stretch (wince) but you can see the plays where Gardner's reach is a factor.

Bottom line for me...I hope they both have great careers, and wish Stingley all the best, particularly when facing BUF, MIA, and especially NE.
 
nycdan said:
Jets fan here and this is pretty much what I'm seeing. Both players are great young CBs. Woolen is another. They are all different types of CBs but it's a great class. I love Gardner the most, but I'm completely biased so it means little, if anything.

Ignore the Pepsi Rookie of the Week stuff because it's clearly overloaded by Jet fans. Not that he didn't deserve a few, but if he wins this week over Joseph or Walker, it exposes it as the joke that it is - albeit a fun one for the moment each week to debate.

Long term, no question that the Jets defense, as a whole, benefits from an incredible boost in talent at every level, which helps everyone play better. Four-man rush is a treat to behold, and something we haven't seen in NY for decades. The thing I'm most fascinated by with Sauce (and Woolen) is that tall CBs have been pretty scarce in the league. Mostly it seemed to be a speed/agility challenge. But these two guys have got it all and WRs are feeling it. The funny thing is that Stingley isn't short by any stretch (wince) but you can see the plays where Gardner's reach is a factor.

Bottom line for me...I hope they both have great careers, and wish Stingley all the best, particularly when facing BUF, MIA, and especially NE.
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Reed is beibg overlooked by folks too locked in on Sauce..he’s playing just as well.
 
nycdan said:
Jets fan here and this is pretty much what I'm seeing. Both players are great young CBs. Woolen is another. They are all different types of CBs but it's a great class. I love Gardner the most, but I'm completely biased so it means little, if anything.

Ignore the Pepsi Rookie of the Week stuff because it's clearly overloaded by Jet fans. Not that he didn't deserve a few, but if he wins this week over Joseph or Walker, it exposes it as the joke that it is - albeit a fun one for the moment each week to debate.

Long term, no question that the Jets defense, as a whole, benefits from an incredible boost in talent at every level, which helps everyone play better. Four-man rush is a treat to behold, and something we haven't seen in NY for decades. The thing I'm most fascinated by with Sauce (and Woolen) is that tall CBs have been pretty scarce in the league. Mostly it seemed to be a speed/agility challenge. But these two guys have got it all and WRs are feeling it. The funny thing is that Stingley isn't short by any stretch (wince) but you can see the plays where Gardner's reach is a factor.

Bottom line for me...I hope they both have great careers, and wish Stingley all the best, particularly when facing BUF, MIA, and especially NE.
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How is Mims looking this year? Is he a FA after this yr?
 
steelbtexan said:
How is Mims looking this year? Is he a FA after this yr?
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Not yet. This is his third year. One more under rookie contract. He's finally playing, which is a big step forward. He was making an unbelieve number of dumb penalties and was a healthy scratch until the DEN game. These past few games he's starting to make plays, block really well, and smarten up. I think there is a legitimate chance he can turn into a solid X or maybe Z receiver. Next few weeks will hopefully show us a lot.
 
Mr teX said:
Larry curley and Moe here…admitting that Stingley’s been good…and that there’s a high “lovie factor”……but still determined to question the pic like it was a bad pick b/c 1 guy is playing on a better team…
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I think it's very fair to question the pick. It's too early for any final judgements to be made but definitely fair to question it. As long as Stingley continues playing well and hopefully getting better over time then I'm perfectly happy with the pick but if he never gets to Gardner's level there will always be what if's.
 
Doc108 said:
I think it's very fair to question the pick. It's too early for any final judgements to be made but definitely fair to question it. As long as Stingley continues playing well and hopefully getting better over time then I'm perfectly happy with the pick but if he never gets to Gardner's level there will always be what if's.
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How do you think Gardner would be doing right now in Lovie's system?
 
Doc108 said:
I think it's very fair to question the pick. It's too early for any final judgements to be made but definitely fair to question it. As long as Stingley continues playing well and hopefully getting better over time then I'm perfectly happy with the pick but if he never gets to Gardner's level there will always be what if's.
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I don’t simply b/c the criticism isn’t warranted. Stingley’s played well, but the team overall isn’t good. Gardner’s playing good as well, but a huge part of that is b/c he’s got a significantly better team around him. The injury concerns haven’t been an issue…yet these guys harp on that.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Stingley a lot of times looks lost in zone. He’s more of a man vs man corner. But he’s doing pretty good too.
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completely disagree. He’s been good in zone as well. Hasnt really looked lost and out of sorts at all. There’s a reason he hasn’t given up a TD all year…There’s a reason he hasn’t been close to getting beat deep since Denver. That’s b/c he’s doing his job extremely well in the zone.. most of the receptions and passing yardage plays that are happening are happening in that LB coverage area in front of him.

Im sure Sauce would play as well, but we don’t know that…
 
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Texansballer74 said:
He would be darn good because he actually plays both man and zone pretty good. Stingley a lot of times looks lost in zone. He’s more of a man vs man corner. But he’s doing pretty good too.
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& Lovie is way more “Zone” oriented. I just don’t understand people saying Stingley (or Pitre for that matter) is a better fit for Lovie

I mentioned after both picks that Lovie is going to have to change how he coaches a defense if he’s going to maximize both players.

& maybe that’s what he wants to do, modernize his Tampa Two. Actually at the end of last season he was doing some good things rolling his backend & disguising coverage.

But this season he quickly reverted to the guy none of us wanted.

Wooosaaah…. Woooosaaaah. … LoviefreaknSmith
 
Texansballer74 said:
He would be darn good because he actually plays both man and zone pretty good. Stingley a lot of times looks lost in zone. He’s more of a man vs man corner. But he’s doing pretty good too.
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Yes he would look good just as Stingley does. Gardner wouldn't be the media darling or PFF hero though. And I don't think Stingley looks lost in zone at all.

edit: Do you think Doc108 answers the same?
 
JB said:
Yes he would look good just as Stingley does. Gardner wouldn't be the media darling or PFF hero though. And I don't think Stingley looks lost in zone at all.
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We don’t know that. If he’s out there making plays, they’ll be talking about how he’ll be cornerstone piece for that defense for years to come.
 
Texansballer74 said:
We don’t know that. If he’s out there making plays, they’ll be talking about how he’ll be cornerstone piece for that defense for years to come.
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You think he would be making more plays than Stingley does?
 
LF911SC said:
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Great video! Baldy has been tracking him from being on an island to national recognition. I wonder if Stingley on that Jets defense would be seeing greater success? I believe so. Which raises some serious questions about Lovie Smith, his system, his evaluations then his usage of assets both on & off the field?

That being said, Gardner had no red flags. Gardners length, size and traits elite amongst all cornerbacks. Personality differences must have been more important to Lovie and Caserio because that’s the only thing that could possibly be construed as a negative, which is purely subjective and nothing to do on football field. To me, that is a flaw in anyones evaluation process if unable to separate and compartmentalize and should be nowhere in a draft room. Period. It’s a business, it’s a game but it’s also just entertainment. If you can nail all three your genius if you can’t then you be left behind…..only player, who truly knocked all three out of the park for Texans was JJ Watt.
 
beerlover said:
Great video! Baldy has been tracking him from being on an island to national recognition. I wonder if Stingley on that Jets defense would be seeing greater success? I believe so. Which raises some serious questions about Lovie Smith, his system, his evaluations then his usage of assets both on & off the field?

That being said, Gardner had no red flags. Gardners length, size and traits elite amongst all cornerbacks. Personality differences must have been more important to Lovie and Caserio because that’s the only thing that could possibly be construed as a negative, which is purely subjective and nothing to do on football field. To me, that is a flaw in anyones evaluation process if unable to separate and compartmentalize and should be nowhere in a draft room. Period. It’s a business, it’s a game but it’s also just entertainment. If you can nail all three your genius if you can’t then you be left behind…..only player, who truly knocked all three out of the park for Texans was JJ Watt.
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i don’t necessarily agree. The 2011 draft with JJ..in that draft too, early on there was some doubt as to whether Rick Smith had made a mistake in not trading up to get Aldon Smith…who just like Sauce came in with a stout SF team as a situational pass rusher and was killing it his 1st few years; actually outperformed JJ in that timespan…he was a huge reason the 49ers made it to the NFCCG that year. But by each’s 3rd year, JJ had ascended to another level and was carrying our defense….while Smith was self destructing. I say all that to say, Off the field personality DOES have a place in the evaluation…we can argue HOW MUCH should it have, but thats another discussion.

Sauce seems like a good kid…but you have to wonder how he’d function in this losing environment that Stingley is in right now given so much hype about this kid is focused on his off the field brand. He’s all over social media blasting PFF b/c they’ve ascribed 2 TD’s to him now with his team having a 6-2 record and playing great. What would he be doing if he was with the Texans and playing on a bottom feeder defense? Its fair to wonder if an OBJ level spin out would be in order for a guy with a high social media presence.
 
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Mr teX said:
Sauce seems like a good kid…but you have to wonder how he’d function in this losing environment that Stingley is in right now given so much hype about this kid is focused on his off the field brand. He’s all over social media blasting PFF b/c they’ve ascribed 2 TD’s to him now with his team having a 6-2 record and playing great. What would he be doing if he was with the Texans and playing on a bottom feeder defense? Its fair to wonder if an OBJ level spin out would be in order for a guy with a high social media presence.
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What hype? That he’s one of the top rookies, the top DB or maybe more? I don’t care about twitter nonsense and I don’t see where he’s all that concerned. And to twist it to OBJ, cancer on a team level is nonsensical at this point. For all you know Stingley could melt down over his playing situation. Sauces teammates and CS don’t have any issues with him. I get it you’re a Stingley fan. But they can both be good, your search for problems with Sauce, wanting to take him down to raise Stingley higher is wrong. Right now Sauce is the better player. The Jets and Texans seem happy with their picks
 
LF911SC said:
What hype? That he’s one of the top rookies, the top DB or maybe more? I don’t care about twitter nonsense and I don’t see where he’s all that concerned. And to twist it to OBJ, cancer on a team level is nonsensical at this point. For all you know Stingley could melt down over his playing situation. Sauces teammates and CS don’t have any issues with him. I get it you’re a Stingley fan. But they can both be good, your search for problems with Sauce, wanting to take him down to raise Stingley higher is wrong. Right now Sauce is the better player. The Jets and Texans seem happy with their picks
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You probably want to do some thread reading before blasting a member for one post. All here have said Sauce is a very good player, as is Stingley. Only one get's the media hype though. And to say Sauce is clearly the better player just shows how little you understand football
 
JB said:
You probably want to do some thread reading before blasting a member for one post. All here have said Sauce is a very good player, as is Stingley. Only one get's the media hype though. And to say Sauce is clearly the better player just shows how little you understand football
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It would help if I blasted him.
 
LF911SC said:
It would help if I blasted him.
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Think your post is both well stated (not digging @ Stingley just the facts) and have good evaluation and measuring skills. There are several old curmudgeon’s which can apply to me as well, however I’m not a homer as they are and see things from more objective viewpoint. Please keep posting facts as you see them, nothing wrong with difference in opinions.
 
beerlover said:
Think your post is both well stated (not digging @ Stingley just the facts) and have good evaluation and measuring skills. There are several old curmudgeon’s which can apply to me as well, however I’m not a homer as they are and see things from more objective viewpoint. Please keep posting facts as you see them, nothing wrong with difference in opinions.
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Thanks.
I find it interesting that he lectured me for blasting the post when I didn’t in any way, just disagreed. Or because he thinks I only read a single post as opposed to the entire thread.
Then he felt the need to claim I didn’t understand the game because I stated that Sauce has been the better player so far. Because that’s a comment out of left field apparently.
 
LF911SC said:
It would help if I blasted him.
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clearly you dont
LF911SC said:
What hype? That he’s one of the top rookies, the top DB or maybe more? I don’t care about twitter nonsense and I don’t see where he’s all that concerned. And to twist it to OBJ, cancer on a team level is nonsensical at this point. For all you know Stingley could melt down over his playing situation. Sauces teammates and CS don’t have any issues with him. I get it you’re a Stingley fan. But they can both be good, your search for problems with Sauce, wanting to take him down to raise Stingley higher is wrong. Right now Sauce is the better player. The Jets and Texans seem happy with their picks
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I dont have to “search” for problems with sauce…they’re readily apparent & have been from day 1… & if you’re not “seeing” that he’s all over social media, then you’re not looking….but then you wouldn’t b/c you said you dont care about twitter nonsense right?
Yeah OBJ’s giants teammates loved him too…so did his Browns teammates….they didnt see any issues with him either…thats pretty much the story with alot of problem child players over the years…

you’re absolutely right, Stingley could just as easily spin out like OBJ…and by me saying that isnt to say that i dont think Sting couldn’t….no smoke there. I get it, you’re a Sauce fan…but none of these guys are perfect prospects and there’s a reason Teams keep going at him…b/c they see an opportunity to use his aggressiveness against him…Hence Allen & the Bills hitting him 1st play out the gate with a 42 yd bomb.

Dont confuse my criticism of him to mean that he’s not playing well. But he does have flaws. Flaws that are being covered up by a stout front 7….for now.
 
Mr teX said:
clearly you dont


I dont have to “search” for problems with sauce…they’re readily apparent & have been from day 1… & if you’re not “seeing” that he’s all over social media, then you’re not looking….but then you wouldn’t b/c you said you dont care about twitter nonsense right?
Yeah OBJ’s giants teammates loved him too…so did his Browns teammates….they didnt see any issues with him either…thats pretty much the story with alot of problem child players over the years…

you’re absolutely right, Stingley could just as easily spin out like OBJ…and by me saying that isnt to say that i dont think Sting couldn’t….no smoke there. I get it, you’re a Sauce fan…but none of these guys are perfect prospects and there’s a reason Teams keep going at him…b/c they see an opportunity to use his aggressiveness against him…Hence Allen & the Bills hitting him 1st play out the gate with a 42 yd bomb.

Dont confuse my criticism of him to mean that he’s not playing well. But he does have flaws. Flaws that are being covered up by a stout front 7….for now.
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Wow unbelievable. Yes your hate runs deep for this young man. You have been hating on this youngster way before the draft. First it was because the competition. Now it’s because the Jets front 7.
 
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