Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Davis Mills vs rookie QBs

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Out of town so missed game but recorded it, but sill out of own so haven't seen recording yet but our guy didn't do so bad based upon what I saw in the boxscore.
Isn't this what we want, an opportunity to check him out to ascertain what kind of potential if any he has as an NFL starter ? But like I say big-name first round picks like Fields and Wilson have nothing on our guy, but of course it's very early.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Out of town so missed game but recorded it, but sill out of own so haven't seen recording yet but our guy didn't do so bad based upon what I saw in the boxscore.
Isn't this what we want, an opportunity to check him out to ascertain what kind of potential if any he has as an NFL starter ? But like I say big-name first round picks like Fields and Wilson have nothing on our guy, but of course it's very early.
The way the other QBs are performing is showing me a lot about how much the team he's playing for is.

The Texans haven't asked Davis Mills to throw the ball 30+ times a game. Part of that is because Mills isn't hurting us early in games. Even with our poor run game. Also, our poor defense is keeping games from getting out of hand to early, so we're not completely abandoning the run game.

Even in those situations, those guys; Lawrence, Wilson, Fields are all demonstrating a high talent level. If I were fans of any of those teams, I'd be in take our lumps mode, knowing brighter days are ahead.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Heard just a snatch of 610 this morning commenting that our defense hasn't really been all that bad. It's early, but so far we are "middle of the pack".
Texans played the Jags (27th in scoring currently) with a rookie QB in first game.
Texans played the Browns (9th in scoring) on a day they don't have either of their top 2 WRs.
Texans played the Panthers (16th) on a day they lost McCaffrey.

We'll see how they handle the Bills.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Texans played the Jags (27th in scoring currently) with a rookie QB in first game.
Texans played the Browns (9th in scoring) on a day they don't have either of their top 2 WRs.
Texans played the Panthers (16th) on a day they lost McCaffrey.

We'll see how they handle the Bills.
I agree we'll see how the Texans handle, not just the Bills, but the rest of the season.

Last year the Texans ranked at or near the bottom in just about all defensive categories. Going into this season, there was just about a consensus that we all wanted to see the Texans improve defensively. "Middle of the pack" represents improvement.

Looking at individual game performance, especially against the more elite teams, is a different standard of appraisal. It was almost unanimously regarded that the 2021 Texans were a bottom tier team, especially talent wise.

Therefore it is not reasonable to gage individual performances but is very reasonable to gage how we stack up against the league as a whole.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I agree we'll see how the Texans handle, not just the Bills, but the rest of the season.

Last year the Texans ranked at or near the bottom in just about all defensive categories. Going into this season, there was just about a consensus that we all wanted to see the Texans improve defensively. "Middle of the pack" represents improvement.

Looking at individual game performance, especially against the more elite teams, is a different standard of appraisal. It was almost unanimously regarded that the 2021 Texans were a bottom tier team, especially talent wise.

Therefore it is not reasonable to gage individual performances but is very reasonable to gage how we stack up against the league as a whole.
I think we ought to remember that last year, the Texans started out against some tough competitions while the pressure was high (on both the coaches and the players).
They felt the pressure, most likely, and then came some injuries and frustration, like we saw with JJ Watt "outburst", and OB getting fired.
The team implodes.
Suspension for PED also played a part.

This team has little expectations, at least for the fans.
NC himself stressed the process, not results.
The players still want to perform, but they aren't facing as much pressure internally so they can play looser, at least for now.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
Texans played the Jags (27th in scoring currently) with a rookie QB in first game.
Texans played the Browns (9th in scoring) on a day they don't have either of their top 2 WRs.
Texans played the Panthers (16th) on a day they lost McCaffrey.

We'll see how they handle the Bills.
And the Texans lost key defensive players in those games as well. It goes both ways…
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
And the Texans lost key defensive players in those games as well. It goes both ways…
Texans played a rookie QB making his 1st ever start, a rookie NFL HC too for that matter, who didn't look like he had anybody prepared. Then they got Baker with no weapons, but a run game that eventually wore them down, and then Sam Darnold with no McCaffery. And with that the Texans D has been average at best. Turnovers have helped. Having the most missed tackles in the NFL through 3 weeks have not helped.

They get a top tier QB this week, with all his weapons healthy. If Lovie's Tampa 2 continues leaving the middle of the field open, things could get very ugly.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Been watching the all-22. Hargreaves really isn't as bad as i originally thought..especially in the zone setting. Darnold made a helluva throw on him late in the Carolina game where he was in good cover position, the ball was just placed perfectly and Hargreaves just missed knocking it down by an inch or so.

I'll tell you who is terrible though. Cunningham. for a coverage LB he is almost never in good cover position. Doesn't get deep enough in zone & is easily shook in man situations. The safeties really missed Reid last week. Lonnie was playing so deep that even when Kirsey and cunningham got deep enough in their zone drops (rare), there was still a sizeable void in the middle. That will have to tighten up.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Been watching the all-22. Hargreaves really isn't as bad as i originally thought..especially in the zone setting. Darnold made a helluva throw on him late in the Carolina game where he was in good cover position, the ball was just placed perfectly and Hargreaves just missed knocking it down by an inch or so.

I'll tell you who is terrible though. Cunningham. for a coverage LB he is almost never in good cover position. Doesn't get deep enough in zone & is easily shook in man situations. The safeties really missed Reid last week. Lonnie was playing so deep that even when Kirsey and cunningham got deep enough in their zone drops (rare), there was still a sizeable void in the middle. That will have to tighten up.
Agreed on Cunningham (He's sucked for yrs) and LJ1, he's as dumb as a bag of rocks.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Texans played the Jags (27th in scoring currently) with a rookie QB in first game.
Texans played the Browns (9th in scoring) on a day they don't have either of their top 2 WRs.
Texans played the Panthers (16th) on a day they lost McCaffrey.

We'll see how they handle the Bills.
Texans played the Browns and Panthers with TT playing two quarters. But it’s good to see you are continuing to show injuries as excuses for teams unable to shake off a team in total rebuild.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
What does it have anything to do with the Texans D vs the opponents' O?

I made no mentioning of the Texans Offense.
I’m just responding to the idea that the Texans D hasn’t been that bad…maybe not clearly However. TT played half of our 12 quarters of football. If we are middle of the pack D we’ve played some pretty good D’s for comparison. We won a game and were in the Cleveland game big time until he went out. Our D had a lot to do with that getting takeaways and eliminating penalties. The D was playing better than expected. When he went out with the new rook QB as expected things got sloppy on both sides of the ball as our time of possession reversed From game 1. No takeaways and stupid penalties ensued. It’s a team game obviously But I didn’t see us playing any backup QB on short notice either. spin it any way you want.
What does it have anything to do with the Texans D vs the opponents' O?

I made no mentioning of the Texans Offense.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
I’m just responding to the idea that the Texans D hasn’t been that bad…maybe not clearly However. TT played half of our 12 quarters of football. If we are middle of the pack D we’ve played some pretty good D’s for comparison. We won a game and were in the Cleveland game big time until he went out. Our D had a lot to do with that getting takeaways and eliminating penalties. The D was playing better than expected. When he went out with the new rook QB as expected things got sloppy on both sides of the ball as our time of possession reversed From game 1. No takeaways and stupid penalties ensued. It’s a team game obviously But I didn’t see us playing any backup QB on short notice either. spin it any way you want.
Texans Time of Possession:

WK1: 35:04
WK2: 24:55
WK3: 24:15

Defense back to being on the field to long. I hope Kelly has some ideas up his sleeve that will help Mills keep the offense on the field a little longer and give the defense a little more rest between series. Those quick 3 and outs don’t do a defense any favors.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I’m just responding to the idea that the Texans D hasn’t been that bad…maybe not clearly However. TT played half of our 12 quarters of football. If we are middle of the pack D we’ve played some pretty good D’s for comparison. We won a game and were in the Cleveland game big time until he went out. Our D had a lot to do with that getting takeaways and eliminating penalties. The D was playing better than expected. When he went out with the new rook QB as expected things got sloppy on both sides of the ball as our time of possession reversed From game 1. No takeaways and stupid penalties ensued. It’s a team game obviously But I didn’t see us playing any backup QB on short notice either. spin it any way you want.
You're the one who tries to spin things.
I was only discussing the play of the defense.
Sam Darnold was a QB most teams don't want.
The Panthers aren't supposed to move the ball that well with McCaffrey down, yet the Texans allowed them to gain the most yards to date.
That's not good enough no matter how you slice it.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Texans Time of Possession:

WK1: 35:04
WK2: 24:55
WK3: 24:15

Defense back to being on the field to long. I hope Kelly has some ideas up his sleeve that will help Mills keep the offense on the field a little longer and give the defense a little more rest between series. Those quick 3 and outs don’t do a defense any favors.
The Texans opened the second half with a long drive.
They didn't score but was able to pin the Panthers at their 9.
The D allowed a 91-yd drive that resulted in a TD.
That's bad.

In the 4th, the Texans had a 7-play drive that resulted in a FG.
Again, the D allowed the Panthers to march 75 yards for another TD.
That's terrible.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Bottom line is, If we can’t score, it puts more pressure on our defense. It’s not even about time of possession really. You have to score to pressure on the opposition. If they’re able to keep you from scoring, they have no incentive to change their defensive approach to defending you.

likewise, our defense can’t be more aggressive in trying to force mistakes as they are forced to sit back.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Bottom line is, If we can’t score, it puts more pressure on our defense. It’s not even about time of possession really. You have to score to pressure on the opposition. If they’re able to keep you from scoring, they have no incentive to change their defensive approach to defending you.

likewise, our defense can’t be more aggressive in trying to force mistakes as they are forced to sit back.
Pinning the opponent at their 9 is putting pressure on them.
it was still a one-point game at that time.
The D had all the time to rest at half time plus during the Texans long drive to start the second half.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Pinning the opponent at their 9 is putting pressure on them.
it was still a one-point game at that time.
The D had all the time to rest at half time plus during the Texans long drive to start the second half.
agreed, but I’m talking about our defense in the 1st part of my original post. Our offense indirectly applied pressure to our defense b/c they couldn't muster up 1 scoring drive in the 3rd. In doing that, they were asking our defense to not give up anything more to keep the game close & winnable; Which given that the Panthers had only scored 7 pts, is absurd to expect ANY defense to hold a team to that little offensive production. As it was, the score was only 14-6 going into the 4th. So even if the offense say just scored a FG on that opening possession coming out of half time, and then managed to piece together some sort of scoring drive late in the 3rd or early in the 4th, Now the score is at worst only 14-12 early in the 4th...& a close FG game like that changes offensive /defensive strategies just like a blowout does.

Have to believe that had the offense been able to do anything in the 3rd, Lovie is probably a little more aggressive than he was. The Panthers after that 91 yd scoring drive late in the 3rd went up by 8 and that's when you saw the uptick in blitzing from them...which that hadn't really done that much of up to that point. They started blitzing Mills on every 3rd & medium/long b/c they knew time was running out & we had to score a TD.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Watching NFL network and they show bullet point that Mills leads all rookie QB's in rating

Not saying much this year, but does give a glimmer of hope
Only in Passer Rating. Mac Jones is second with 79.1 to Mills' 80.9.

However in QBR, Mills raised his QBR from 12.6, after his half against Cleveland, to 37.7 after Carolina. This still trails Jones whose QBR after three games is 52.0.

Also, when I looked at the quarterback rankings, Mills wasn't listed. Although he does have a QBR, playing only a game and a half, he doesn't have enough snaps to be ranked against the other quarterbacks. If he had the snaps he would be ranked 28, dropping Roethlisbergerger's 35.5 to 29. Mac Jones is at 21.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
The big fail was that 91yd drive.
There's no excuse for the D.
It's not unusual. The Texans have given up 3 TD drives of 70+ yards in every game thus far. A credit to the offense in that they haven't turned the ball over that much to make the drives shorter. The excuse for the defense is they just don't have enough good players. It is what it is.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Texans opened the second half with a long drive.
They didn't score but was able to pin the Panthers at their 9.
The D allowed a 91-yd drive that resulted in a TD.
That's bad.

In the 4th, the Texans had a 7-play drive that resulted in a FG.
Again, the D allowed the Panthers to march 75 yards for another TD.
That's terrible.
Agreed, the defense was bad in the 2nd half. They couldn't get off of the field. Rhule made some really good halftime adjustments.

BTW, Darnold has always had the talent to be a franchise QB. He unfortunately for him got drafted by the NYJ. I see Darnold as a modern day Jim Plunkett,.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don't hear anyone saying bench him. I hear people having a different viewpoint on what development looks like for him.
That development includes benching him.

Look at some of Mr. Tex posts, if you want to see somebody who wants to bench him. But you're right, some here want the top rated rookie QB to learn by playing. Some want him to ride the bench and learn because TT gives the team it's best chance to win games.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
That development includes benching him.

Look at some of Mr. Tex posts, if you want to see somebody who wants to bench him. But you're right, some here want the top rated rookie QB to learn by playing. Some want him to ride the bench and learn because TT gives the team it's best chance to win games.
It's not binary. There are nuances on both sides. You have a gift for presenting your position in the best possible words while distilling contrary positions to the lowest common denominator.

Poster: Mills could benefit from more learning/mentoring just as much as he can from actual playing time

SteelB: So you want to bench him

Poster: I don't want to bench him for the sake of benching him. In my opinion with the lack of quality talent on this team he stands a better chance of development with a combination of playing time and being the backup.

SteelB: So you want to bench him

Poster: It isn't about benching him. There is a very real risk that this team is bad enough that playing him in 16 games may actually stunt his development.

SteelB: So you want to bench him
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
That development includes benching him.

Look at some of Mr. Tex posts, if you want to see somebody who wants to bench him. But you're right, some here want the top rated rookie QB to learn by playing. Some want him to ride the bench and learn because TT gives the team it's best chance to win games.
I don't see how giving him a break is going to hurt him. He learned what he didn't know in the last six qtrs. He's going to learn a bit more for the next few games.

Then he's going to sit for a while, and be able to understand with a new understanding what they're talking about getting Tyrod ready to play each week. Then when Tyrod gets hurt again, he'll be better prepared to put it all together on the field.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It's not binary. There are nuances on both sides. You have a gift for presenting your position in the best possible words while distilling contrary positions to the lowest common denominator.

Poster: Mills could benefit from more learning/mentoring just as much as he can from actual playing time

SteelB: So you want to bench him

Poster: I don't want to bench him for the sake of benching him. In my opinion with the lack of quality talent on this team he stands a better chance of development with a combination of playing time and being the backup.

SteelB: So you want to bench him

Poster: It isn't about benching him. There is a very real risk that this team is bad enough that playing him in 16 games may actually stunt his development.

SteelB: So you want to bench him
It is a binary decision, you either play him or you dont. There really isn't a middle ground and IMHO you play the rookie who's played better than any other rookie QB in this yrs draft. Doyou think it's better to get hands on experience or classroom experience? I know you need some classrom experience, but nothing beats hands on experience. IMHO
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
I don't see how giving him a break is going to hurt him. He learned what he didn't know in the last six qtrs. He's going to learn a bit more for the next few games.

Then he's going to sit for a while, and be able to understand with a new understanding what they're talking about getting Tyrod ready to play each week. Then when Tyrod gets hurt again, he'll be better prepared to put it all together on the field.
This is the part that maybe isn't getting understood. The chance of TT going out again is greater than him playing the final 10-11 games.

Or, he plays well the rest of the season, but at some point the team suckage is great enough and TT has secured whatever favorable contract he will get next season with the Texans or someone else that Mills gets playing time.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don't see how giving him a break is going to hurt him. He learned what he didn't know in the last six qtrs. He's going to learn a bit more for the next few games.

Then he's going to sit for a while, and be able to understand with a new understanding what they're talking about getting Tyrod ready to play each week. Then when Tyrod gets hurt again, he'll be better prepared to put it all together on the field.
Why not keep Mills out there and let him continue to learn? What's playing Tyrod really going to accomplish in the big picture, versus giving the top rated rookie QB more snaps to continue to learn his craft?
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
It is a binary decision, you either play him or you dont. There really isn't a middle ground and IMHO you play the rookie who's played better than any other rookie QB in this yrs draft. Doyou think it's better to get hands on experience or classroom experience? I know you need some classrom experience, but nothing beats hands on experience. IMHO
You continue to make my point. It has been 3 games for them and 1.5 for Mills. Let's slow our roll.

Also, the decision isn't binary. There is nothing that says once TT is healthy that Mills will never play another down this season.
 

sandman

Brexit Advisor
If Mills stops progressing (or if he doesn't progress), letting him see the game from the sidelines could be beneficial. It's really too soon to have an opinion, one way or the other. My feeling is, let the situation play out.
Agreed. After 4-5 games and potentially some struggles, it might do him a world of good to sit and see TT do his thing and apply what he experienced and what he is seeing TT do to become a better QB. But if 4-5 games from now it is obvious that he is progressing forward then you have a decision to make.

I've just seen enough rookie QB's destroyed by trotting them out there game after game on really bad teams and watching them struggle to know it doesn't work the vast majority of the time.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Why not keep Mills out there and let him continue to learn? What's playing Tyrod really going to accomplish in the big picture, versus giving the top rated rookie QB more snaps to continue to learn his craft?
I'm allowing him more time to learn his craft. He will continue to learn.

Again, to me it's about the mindset of the organization. Every decision must be about winning. If Mills gives you the best chance to win, you play him. If Tyrod gives you the best chance to win, you play him.

If developing Mills is more important than winning games, then this team will never get past the divisional round. I know you don't get it... or at least you think differently. But winning begets winning. Not wanting to win every moment of every play, drive, qtr, half, game has to be rooted out completely.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You continue to make my point. It has been 3 games for them and 1.5 for Mills. Let's slow our roll.

Also, the decision isn't binary. There is nothing that says once TT is healthy that Mills will never play another down this season.
Agreed about slowing the roll.

If Mills continues to be the top rated rookie QB after facing the top 3 defenses in the NFL, what do you accomplish by putting TT back in? If Mills struggles over the next couple of games then sure bring TT in and let Mills learn from the bench. Otherwise you play Mills. What I find hilarious is the same people who say bench Mills because he's a rookie, wanted the Pervert to start from game #1.
 


Top