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Davis Mills getting no respect

Have you given any thought that while the Texans receivers can run routes and get open that the Miami receivers can run routes faster and get down the field farther than the Texans because Miami is that much faster?
Dorsett has 4.27- 4.33s speed and 6.70s 3-cone (fluidity/flexibility). A former 1st rd. that has yet live up to expectations.

Collins has a combination of size, speed, agility, and catch radius that none of the Dolphin receiver possesses.


Brandin is Brandin.
 
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This is very superficial.

This should make you think is this by design? Is the game plan to use the tight ends more? How many targets does one tight end group have over the other? And then compare that to completion.

For example - if the Texans TE group has more targets not an overwhelming amount of completions than Miami that should tell you that either the passes are bad or the TEs aren’t getting separation. Or both.
Texans TE had 8 more targets (and 3 more catches), and like I said some 70 more yards.
Basically the Dolphins TE has nothing over the Texans (especially when Brevin comes back).
 
Stop. I’m appealing to you because you seem like a reasonable person.

Please don’t argue with someone who negates Tyreek Hill’s YAC to prove his point. You can’t win. You’re in the mud wrestling with someone who revels in wrestling in mud.
Yep, will do. Kind of incredible someone would minimize the impact of Tyreek Hill—one of the most dynamic speed/quick twitch receivers of the 21st century—to imply that Tua's performance upgrade is really all about him and not about his weapons. And that Jordan Aiken and O.J. Howard are "dynamic" TEs (one bagging groceries for awhile while the other cut the year Rob Gronkowski retires). Lol. Okkkkkkkkkk then...
 
Stop. I’m appealing to you because you seem like a reasonable person.

Please don’t argue with someone who negates Tyreek Hill’s YAC to prove his point. You can’t win. You’re in the mud wrestling with someone who revels in wrestling in mud.
Why should YAC be included when we"re talking about AYA (Air Yard Per Attempt) of the QB.

The two things have nothing to do with each other.
 
Just looking at Tyreek Hill's numbers on Pro Reference... 6 full years in the NFL, all 6 made the Pro Bowl and 3 of those years Hill was All-Pro. You can add 7 and 4 by season's end if he doesn't get injured... Hill would be a magnitude 7 or higher upgrade over the current declining iteration of Brandin Cooks.
 
Yep, will do. Kind of incredible someone would minimize the impact of Tyreek Hill—one of the most dynamic speed/quick twitch receivers of the 21st century—to imply that Tua's performance upgrade is really all about him and not about his weapons. And that Jordan Aiken and O.J. Howard are "dynamic" TEs (one bagging groceries for awhile while the other cut the year Rob Gronkowski retires). Lol. Okkkkkkkkkk then...
What do the Dolphins TEs have over the Texans?
Is there any All-Pro TE on that team that I'm not aware of?
 
Dorsett has 4.27- 4.33s speed and 6.70s 3-cone (fluidity/flexibility). A former 1st rd. that has yet live up to expectations.

Collins has a combination of size, speed, agility, and catch radius that none of the Dolphin receiver possesses.


Seriously?

Out of the two players you named they have a combined start of 1 game. And even then that doesn’t say much about how many snaps they have seen. You know they are the 3rd and 4th receiver on the team. You can’t compare the 3rd and 4th to the 1st and 2nd of another team. You know that.
 
Why should YAC be included when we"re talking about AYA (Air Yard Per Attempt) of the QB.

The two things have nothing to do with each other.
AYA is also directly correlated to the ability to get open downfield. Obviously, as an elite deep threat, Hill is going to have a material advantage over anything on this roster, and many NFL rosters. Ultra elite receivers will have better AYA, so not sure what the point is here.
 
Just looking at Tyreek Hill's numbers on Pro Reference... 6 full years in the NFL, all 6 made the Pro Bowl and 3 of those years Hill was All-Pro. You can add 7 and 4 by season's end if he doesn't get injured... Hill would be a magnitude 7 or higher upgrade over the current declining iteration of Brandin Cooks.
Who says anything about Cooks being on equal footing with Hill?
 
Who says anything about Cooks being on equal footing with Hill?
The conversation is about AYA and YAC, which is directly correlated to the quality of the receiving core. You mentioned Tua had a better downfield air pass numbers over Mills, which is fine. But you don't seem to want to attribute any causality to Miami's much better 1/2 WR receiving core. Tua's improvement had a hell of a lot to do with both Waddle and Hill.
 
Seriously?

Out of the two players you named they have a combined start of 1 game. And even then that doesn’t say much about how many snaps they have seen. You know they are the 3rd and 4th receiver on the team. You can’t compare the 3rd and 4th to the 1st and 2nd of another team. You know that.
Collins had 4 start.

But the number of starts are not important like you said; it's the number of snaps and what they're able to do with them.

The Texans like to start the TE more cause they want more blocking from this units, and they do use them a little more.

But yes, I'm serious that the Dolphins has no receiver like Collins.

Or do you think Nick Caserio did a bad job drafting him; giving up additional pick in the process?
 
The conversation is about AYA and YAC, which is directly correlated to the quality of the receiving core. You mentioned Tua had a better downfield air pass numbers over Mills, which is fine. But you don't seem to want to attribute any causality to Miami's much better 1/2 WR receiving core. Tua's improvement had a hell of a lot to do with both Waddle and Hill.
It was my conversation. I know I never discussed YAC.
 
The conversation is about AYA and YAC, which is directly correlated to the quality of the receiving core. You mentioned Tua had a better downfield air pass numbers over Mills, which is fine. But you don't seem to want to attribute any causality to Miami's much better 1/2 WR receiving core. Tua's improvement had a hell of a lot to do with both Waddle and Hill.
Also, you guys never give light to the fact that I had brought up a number of links where they rank the Texans Offensive Line higher than that of the Dolphins.
 
Collins had 4 start.

But the number of starts are not important like you said; it's the number of snaps and what they're able to do with them.

The Texans like to start the TE more cause they want more blocking from this units, and they do use them a little more.

But yes, I'm serious that the Dolphins has no receiver like Collins.

Or do you think Nick Caserio did a bad job drafting him; giving up additional pick in the process?
Just because Miami doesn't have a WR like Collins doesn't mean that Collins is in Waddle or Hill's zipcode. Collins is a promising player, a developing player. But both Waddle and Hill would give much more productive value than what Collins brings today, and it's not even very close. I assumed this would be obvious to anybody.
 
Texans TE had 8 more targets (and 3 more catches), and like I said some 70 more yards.
Basically the Dolphins TE has nothing over the Texans (especially when Brevin comes back).

Miami had 36 targets. 24 receptions.
Texans had 44 targets. 27 receptions.

That should tell you that there could be more of play design for TEs for the Texans. They are being targeted more. And the Miami TEs are better at catching the ball. Maybe because of the QB or talent.

Mike Gesicki is a pretty good TE worth a franchise tag to Miami.
 
Collins had 4 start.

But the number of starts are not important like you said; it's the number of snaps and what they're able to do with them.

The Texans like to start the TE more cause they want more blocking from this units, and they do use them a little more.

But yes, I'm serious that the Dolphins has no receiver like Collins.

Or do you think Nick Caserio did a bad job drafting him; giving up additional pick in the process?

My mistake. I am not to Nico being called Collins. I was reading that as Conley.

The point isn’t that the Dolphins don’t have a player like Nico. The point is that the Dolphins have two of the faster if not fastest playing receivers in the NFL which are much faster than the Texans. That is a direct contributor to the AYA and YAC.

You can talk in circles. You can misconstrue stats. You can be purposely deceitful with the stats. You can talk out of both sides your mouth. You can talk like a politician.

Either way you are wrong. Your points have been disproven. You have no argument.
 
I can believe this. I don't think the Texans OL is actually that bad.
I will bring up the other links shortly.

In the meantime I can tell you that PFF have the Dolphins with two guys rated very low; much lower than the two lowest graded Texans Olinemen.
Check them out.

And you know what they say, you're only as good as your weakest link(s).
 
My mistake. I am not to Nico being called Collins. I was reading that as Conley.

The point isn’t that the Dolphins don’t have a player like Nico. The point is that the Dolphins have two of the faster if not fastest playing receivers in the NFL which are much faster than the Texans. That is a direct contributor to the AYA and YAC.

You can talk in circles. You can misconstrue stats. You can be purposely deceitful with the stats. You can talk out of both sides your mouth. You can talk like a politician.

Either way you are wrong. Your points have been disproven. You have no argument.
They may have the two fastest guys, by a hair.

Cooks and Dorsett are almost right there with them two.

And the Dolphins don't have anybody like Collins.

So that's more like a wash.

Besides, when the Oline can't block, it matters even less.
 
They may have the two fastest guys, by a hair.

Cooks and Dorsett are almost right there with them two.

And the Dolphins don't have anybody like Collins.

So that's more like a wash.

Besides, when the Oline can't block, it matters even less.
Hope you aren't arguing that because Dorsett and Cooks are almost, or as fast as Waddle/Hill that they are even remotely on par as weapons at WR. That would just be ridiculous, so I'm going to assume you're focusing strictly on the speed element. Regardless of straight line speed, Miami's receivers are materially better than Dorsett/Cooks so that's what really matters in the end.
 
I can believe this. I don't think the Texans OL is actually that bad.
Texans are seven spots higher than the Dolphins here:

Nine spots higher here:
 
Hope you aren't arguing that because Dorsett and Cooks are almost, or as fast as Waddle/Hill that they are even remotely on par as weapons at WR. That would just be ridiculous, so I'm going to assume you're focusing strictly on the speed element. Regardless of straight line speed, Miami's receivers are materially better than Dorsett/Cooks so that's what really matters in the end.
Part of what make those two guys dangerous are the YAC element.
If you take that part out, they are not as dangerous.

Speed, fluidity (3-cone time), route running are what help the receiver gets open.

Besides, size and catch radius are among other elements that can help get to the ball.
Remember how Collins took that ball over the DB?
The Dolphins don't have that.

As the Dolphins only have two guys, the opponents, let say, can double team the best guy and put their best CB on the second guy.

With the Texans, you have three guys.
That bring a different advantage.

And like I said, when the Oline is better, the QB can afford to find one of the three receivers.

Both Tua and Mills have the same TT (time-to-throw), but since Mills threw more short passes, it means he had more time on the other passes to find the receiver.
 
Part of what make those two guys dangerous are the YAC element.
If you take that part out, they are not as dangerous.

Speed, fluidity (3-cone time), route running are what help the receiver gets open.

Besides, size and catch radius are among other elements that can help get to the ball.
Remember how Collins took that ball over the DB?
The Dolphins don't have that.

As the Dolphins only have two guys, the opponents, let say, can double team the best guy and put their best CB on the second guy.

With the Texans, you have three guys.
That bring a different advantage.

And like I said, when the Oline is better, the QB can afford to find one of the three receivers.

Both Tua and Mills have the same TT (time-to-throw), but since Mills threw more short passes, it means he had more time on the other passes to find the receiver.
Dude, you're losing me. You can bring up all the combine stuff you want. But that doesn't necessarily translate into game action. We can all see through a simple eye test that Waddle and Hill and MUCH superior to Cooks and Dorsett. **** man, it's not even a conversation. Perhaps peak Cooks you might have an argument he's close to the other guys, but he's obviously lost a step and I haven't seen any catches this year where he really separated all that much... Everything Cooks catches is contested. Hill and Waddle get 2-3 yards of separation on the defender all the time.

So bottom line, I don't agree with your premise at all. Hill is about to become an All-Pro for the 4th year in 7, with a QB that was quasi on the bubble entering the season. He's a consensus generational talent. Common man, are pretzelling yourself to fit a narrative.

Ok, I think I'm checking out of this thread because the debate doesn't make any sense to me. Please have the last word as warranted. Cheers.
 
Miami had 36 targets. 24 receptions.
Texans had 44 targets. 27 receptions.

That should tell you that there could be more of play design for TEs for the Texans. They are being targeted more. And the Miami TEs are better at catching the ball. Maybe because of the QB or talent.

Mike Gesicki is a pretty good TE worth a franchise tag to Miami.
The Texans TEs are currently outperforming the Dolphins'.

There's that.
 
Dude, you're losing me. You can bring up all the combine stuff you want. But that doesn't necessarily translate into game action. We can all see through a simple eye test that Waddle and Hill and MUCH superior to Cooks and Dorsett. **** man, it's not even a conversation. Perhaps peak Cooks you might have an argument he's close to the other guys, but he's obviously lost a step and I haven't seen any catches this year where he really separated all that much... Everything Cooks catches is contested. Hill and Waddle get 2-3 yards of separation on the defender all the time.

So bottom line, I don't agree with your premise at all. Hill is about to become at All-Pro for the 4th year in 7, with a QB that was quasi on the bubble entering the season. Common man, are over thinking this.

Ok, I think I'm checking out of this thread because the debate doesn't make any sense to me. Please have the last word as warranted. Cheers.
Did you forget that Mills left a lot of yards on the field until lately?

If he had put the ball where it needs to go more consistently, don't you think it would help the receivers get more catches?
 
Did you forget that Mills left a lot of yards on the field until lately?

If he had put the ball where it needs to go more consistently, don't you think it would help the receivers get more catches?
Honestly, I'm very satisfied with Mills ball placement in general, especially lately. Without question, most of the throws he's making are in very tight windows. I don't see much separation at all from these receivers - any of them. Including Cooks who should be the speedy breakaway guy.

Now I think games 2 and 3 (Broncos specifically) Mills was very inaccurate. It looked like he was being overly cautious to avoid interception. But the accuracy lately is right where it was last season, and the throws have generally been on the mark and where only the receivers has a chance at a reception. Hope it continues.
 
Honestly, I'm very satisfied with Mills ball placement in general, especially lately. Without question, most of the throws he's making are in very tight windows. I don't see much separation at all from these receivers - any of them. Including Cooks who should be the speedy breakaway guy.

Now I think games 2 and 3 (Broncos specifically) Mills was very inaccurate. It looked like he was being overly cautious to avoid interception. But the accuracy lately is right where it was last season, and the throws have generally been on the mark and where only the receivers has a chance at a reception. Hope it continues.
Game 1 here; this is just the short version and I already see 3 poor passes by Mills when the receiver was wide open.
And I know these weren't all of his poor/bad passes.

 
Game 1 here; this is just the short version and I already see 3 poor passes by Mills when the receiver was wide open.
And I know these weren't all of his poor/bad passes.

Not worried about someone who had a 99.5 passer rating and was the 10th ranked QB in Week 1 according to PFF. I can dissect any NFL game and show you QBs that miss throws and make the wrong read. Mills certainly hasn't been great in some games, but I expect this from a deeply inexperienced QB with below average weapons on the roster and conservative offense. As long as he keeps playing like he did last game and Week 1, I doubt Caserio used lottery draft capital on a QB. And this is the best case scenario for the team IMO. We shall see how it goes - tons of evaluation time left to see how it plays out. I believe it will all come down to consistency with Mills and whether he shows enough incremental process before season's end to gain the confidence of management into 2023.
 
Game 1 here; this is just the short version and I already see 3 poor passes by Mills when the receiver was wide open.
And I know these weren't all of his poor/bad passes.

Pass no. 1
4 min to go in the first. 3rd and 5.
Receiver wide open but Mills threw the ball low.
That should have been an easy first down.

Pass no. 2 (this one was not one of the original three I wanted to mention).
The flea-flicker to start the second half.
Cooks was wide open.
A better pass would have resulted in a TD there.
The Texans had to settle for a FG in a game that ended up as a tie.

Pass no. 2B
4:39 left in the fourth. 3rd and 8.
The receiver took the RCB deep some 7-8 yards past the first down marker with the CB having depth.
This should be some short of a fade or comebacker. The receiver had plenty of room to make the first down there, but Mills sailed the pass high.

Pass no. 3
1:30 left in the fourth.
Cooks ran an out route with plenty of separation.
He was running toward the sideline with the DB to the inside all the way.
This need to be an out route, but Mills threw the ball inside, toward the DB.
That should have been a first down there.
 
Cooks, who ain't all that, and the crap behind him vs what the Dolphins have, or anybody else for that matter, Tua vs Mills, WTF is the matter with you people going round and round with this bullshit?

Ooh, let's argue for days on end over who's the better mediocre team while totally ignoring one of those teams (Texans) is bottom of the barrell.

:hankpalm:
 
He can’t argue his point so he shifts it.
No, you guys were the ones who try to shift it toward YAC.

I've always stayed on Air Yard as we were comparing which QB had guys that can either get open or somehow make a fantastic catch to help the QBs.

I know even the lesser-known Texans receiver like Moore had made a great catch for Mills.
 
Cooks, who ain't all that, and the crap behind him vs what the Dolphins have, or anybody else for that matter, Tua vs Mills, WTF is the matter with you people going round and round with this bullshit?

Ooh, let's argue for days on end over who's the better mediocre team while totally ignoring one of those teams (Texans) is bottom of the barrell.

:hankpalm:
Do we have anything better to do? :brando:
 
Not worried about someone who had a 99.5 passer rating and was the 10th ranked QB in Week 1 according to PFF. I can dissect any NFL game and show you QBs that miss throws and make the wrong read. Mills certainly hasn't been great in some games, but I expect this from a deeply inexperienced QB with below average weapons on the roster and conservative offense. As long as he keeps playing like he did last game and Week 1, I doubt Caserio used lottery draft capital on a QB. And this is the best case scenario for the team IMO. We shall see how it goes - tons of evaluation time left to see how it plays out. I believe it will all come down to consistency with Mills and whether he shows enough incremental process before season's end to gain the confidence of management into 2023.
The point is that receivers have been open.
You guys were saying that they weren't.
 
Cooks, who ain't all that, and the crap behind him vs what the Dolphins have, or anybody else for that matter, Tua vs Mills, WTF is the matter with you people going round and round with this bullshit?

Ooh, let's argue for days on end over who's the better mediocre team while totally ignoring one of those teams (Texans) is bottom of the barrell.

:hankpalm:

We have been waiting for the usual captain obvious post pointing out the negative in a hyperbole fashion.

You arrived on time as usual.
 
Also, you guys never give light to the fact that I had brought up a number of links where they rank the Texans Offensive Line higher than that of the Dolphins.

I may have missed it in an earlier post, but does that ranking source have a break down for the Texans OL ranking in the run game, pass game, and overall ranking?
 
Pass no. 1
4 min to go in the first. 3rd and 5.
Receiver wide open but Mills threw the ball low.
That should have been an easy first down.

Pass no. 2 (this one was not one of the original three I wanted to mention).
The flea-flicker to start the second half.
Cooks was wide open.
A better pass would have resulted in a TD there.
The Texans had to settle for a FG in a game that ended up as a tie.

Pass no. 2B
4:39 left in the fourth. 3rd and 8.
The receiver took the RCB deep some 7-8 yards past the first down marker with the CB having depth.
This should be some short of a fade or comebacker. The receiver had plenty of room to make the first down there, but Mills sailed the pass high.

Pass no. 3
1:30 left in the fourth.
Cooks ran an out route with plenty of separation.
He was running toward the sideline with the DB to the inside all the way.
This need to be an out route, but Mills threw the ball inside, toward the DB.
That should have been a first down there.


Okay.....now do one for the passes that hit the receivers hands and were dropped.
 
So you think the Texans TE's are better receivers than Gesicki?
Did I say that?
I said the Texans TEs had more productions than their Dolphins counterparts.

Didn't you remember some of the great catches they made and the times they were wide open?

Or now you're going to spite them to make a case for your boy?
 
I may have missed it in an earlier post, but does that ranking source have a break down for the Texans OL ranking in the run game, pass game, and overall ranking?
Yes

Pass block: 21st and 29th respectively.
 
Okay.....now do one for the passes that hit the receivers hands and were dropped.
You can't expect the receiver to make the difficult catch all the time.
The fact was that he was wide open and Mills had plenty of time.
One would expect the QB to make a better pass than that. No excuse.

Also, we've already go over the number of drops by both teams; the difference is negligible.

The fact remains that Mills is very inconsistent with his accuracy.

Undeniably so.
 
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